Just what does 1+1 = ?

[Thane9]

Ther is no "tactic" except to Zerg up and faceroll with numbers to combat being hunted by warg packs and mapins. None.

If a group of creeps wants to make the game virtually unplayable for a solo player they can. And often it's nothing short of griefing.

Say what you want. It happens. Often.

As for 29k. Your math is wrong. I checked and I have under 1100 per minute morale regen. So unless you can come up with some other source of morale or claim it was a 15 minute fight then your numbers are wrong.

I've never popped any cooldown except seeking blades and in loooong fights some pots more than once in a fight.

Your math just doesn't add up. Unless your log is wrong and somehow seeing pre mitigation numbers while mine shows post. I do have ~50% tac mit right now.

In which case I think we should submit a bug report.

The only other thing I can think of is if I exploded at closer to 10k. Btw I haven't used EVERY cooldown in any fight or desperate attempt to live since ROI. It's nearly impossible to hit them all and remain combat effective at all. Anyhow. Maybe I died at 8-9-10k and the rest was combat spam from a group dealing damage fast and my death event message showed up on the screen only after all the simultaneous damage was done.

For example if 20 BAs carefully timed their shots vs a slug. Would the death event line show up immediately once it's morale threshold was exceeded or would any simultaneous damage appear to be applied before death.

It is literally impossible for my effective morale to be anywhere close to 30k in anything but an extremely long fight or with healing support. And it takes a considerable amount of time to even get close to 15k. Just to fire those skills build the pips necessary and power pot to somehow get champ and bubble off in the same fight.

And for that matter I didn't have any power pots yesterday. I used my last one when I first logged in up at grothum fighting npcs. And I forgot to buy more in the one trip I made outside the moors last night.

I'd say show your logs but the reality is even if they add up to some huge number I'd have to insist they're wrong somehow. None of it adds up.

[Olympic]

There is no "tactic" except to Zerg up and faceroll with numbers to combat being hunted by warg packs and mapins. None.

Now that you figured it out, what is your plan?

[Thane9]

Btw. Just so this is crystal clear. I'm not baiting anything. I have legitimate thoughts and concerns about what I consider to be in my opinion poor mechanics that often lead to poor playstyles which lead to in-fun gameplay.

Literally EVERYTHING that can possibly be done by freeps that I complain about from creeps I equally despise.

Let me say this again. EVERYTHING. If I'm complaining about stealth being used for baiting and ganking then I equally hate it freepside.

If I complain about solos calling out for airstrikes against solos then I feel the same about freepside.

If I complain about ANY poor gameplay I also mean freeps.

The issue is I play freepside. So the entirety of my data set us what I see creeps doing.

Don't for one second try and suggest I'm anti-creep. I'm anti bad game design and bad playstyles encouraged and enabled by that bad game design.

[Thane9]

Now that you figured it out, what is your plan?

To continue to speak about ideas that could make the moors a more dynamic and engaging pvmp experience for all group sizes. I'll not cater to this idea of continued escalation of numbers as the only way to win. I know some players are committed to that idea. And I don't want to see large scale fighting go away. But numbers shouldn't be the only answer.

[TheBigMenace]

You know that as a soloer you have the freedom to avoid map-ins essentially negating their usefulness? That's one of their big flaws, EVERYONE knows where they are. Not only are they easily avoided, they are also easily camped.

A group of freeps can simply sit on a map in spot and kill creeps before they finish loading in. As I have said before maps have much less utility than horses and definitely are easier to work around.

Also whoever brought up ICMR for pvp was dumb, it's probably one of the worst stats in the game in terms of negating incoming damage in pvp. Why? Because in the 20 seconds that the majority of fights last it's healing you for around 200 health. Unless you are rocking something ridiculous like 6k of ICMR it's effects are negligible in the majority of fights. Also nit-picking over 800 and 1k is equally dumb it's a tossup between getting 13hps and 16hps and I don't know about you but taking 3 less damage per second won't be turning any tides. If you are fighting a turtling healer for 3 minutes it's one thing but if you are fighting a burst monster like a champ you can take your ICMR and shove it... never mind.

[TheBigMenace]

]baiting and ganking

I for one encourage this style of play, often players will not leave res circles unless they have a buddy to back them up. So I wait outside in plain view and when the two of them come to solo gank me, 3 BA's pop out behind a rock and shaft them. Many have called me the "master" baiter.

[Olympic]

To continue to speak about ideas that could make the moors a more dynamic and engaging pvmp experience for all group sizes. I'll not cater to this idea of continued escalation of numbers as the only way to win. I know some players are committed to that idea. And I don't want to see large scale fighting go away. But numbers shouldn't be the only answer.

Ok, but you just said numbers are the only answer to Warg packs and map-ins. You can avoid a map-in, I don't think you can totally avoid a group of wargs.

So other than avoiding the situation, the only answer to those scenarios, by your own assessment, is to group up. You aren't going to change the tactic by voicing opposition to the tactic on the forums. Turbine isn't going to change the game, nor should they, to negate it, so you are back to your realistic choices:

1. Avoid the situation.
2. Group up.

[Sujae]

Also whoever brought up ICMR for pvp was dumb, it's probably one of the worst stats in the game in terms of negating incoming damage in pvp. Why? Because in the 20 seconds that the majority of fights last it's healing you for around 200 health. Unless you are rocking something ridiculous like 6k of ICMR it's effects are negligible in the majority of fights. Also nit-picking over 800 and 1k is equally dumb it's a tossup between getting 13hps and 16hps and I don't know about you but taking 3 less damage per second won't be turning any tides. If you are fighting a turtling healer for 3 minutes it's one thing but if you are fighting a burst monster like a champ you can take your ICMR and shove it... never mind.

You are correct.

My original reference to this was exactly your example. I posted in Luc's "You buff the Creeps and buff the Creeps" thread. He asked what it would take to have Creeps NOT run from him, my response was that I would like the regen of healers and the mitigation of Uthredson, and as always I would like my BA to be able to actually dual weild. I gave him these points for something different to think about, it didnt work obviously. So I introduced it again in this thread, which by the way Luc's regen is twice that of my BA. Is that fair or unfair? Shall I complain endlessly or move on?

That said I hope you can see my point, and yes when a fight is over in less than one min in combat regen is not as ground breaking as you are trying to make my post seem. I am a happy Creep. I just do not like when Luc comes to the forums for unaware Creeps and Freeps to read his posts and have him appear to be an all knowing Champion of Landroval and have players who don't know all the mechanics take Luc's posts at face value without them being objected to.

One more thing, Luc, why did you run from me at Lugs last night, you burst monster of a Champ you?

[TheBigMenace]

You are correct.

My original reference to this was exactly your example. I posted in Luc's "You buff the Creeps and buff the Creeps" thread. He asked what it would take to have Creeps NOT run from him, my response was that I would like the regen of healers and the mitigation of Uthredson, and as always I would like my BA to be able to actually dual weild. I gave him these points for something different to think about, it didnt work obviously. So I introduced it again in this thread, which by the way Luc's regen is twice that of my BA. Is that fair or unfair? Shall I complain endlessly or move on?

That said I hope you can see my point, and yes when a fight is over in less than one min in combat regen is not as ground breaking as you are trying to make my post seem. I am a happy Creep. I just do not like when Luc comes to the forums for unaware Creeps and Freeps to read his posts and have him appear to be an all knowing Champion of Landroval and have players who don't know all the mechanics take Luc's posts at face value without them being objected to.

One more thing, Luc, why did you run from me at Lugs last night, you burst monster of a Champ you?

I see.

Well I agree that Luc's posts are almost always misinformed, but flaming him is not the answer. I doubt he'll stop posting either way so it's better to inform than to flame no?

[Thane9]

You know that as a soloer you have the freedom to avoid map-ins essentially negating their usefulness? That's one of their big flaws, EVERYONE knows where they are. Not only are they easily avoided, they are also easily camped.

.

Ahh...lets think about the map for a minute. There are VERY few places that aren't within 1 minute (including mapping time) from a map-in spot for a warg or a reaver. Funny how I know when it's map-ins because the wargs/reavers get there first then the others come running in either as I'm dying or as I lie dead to get a count of how many responded.

VERY few locations. And if you look at the map of those locations and remove all the spots that creeps virtually NEVER go...it's even fewer, for example the entire west side of the map south of ROP. Dead zone, easily 10% of the landmass of the ettenmoors is completely dead of any traffic. Remove the center of the map because that's where the zergs tend to be, remove anything outside of a 30s distance from a map-in and you are left with VERY small pockets of the moors.

THEN consider the second piece...I cannot remain still. So it's not like I can just sit in one of those pockets and pray some creep strolls by. If I stay still I'm tracked and hunted. Usually within 1-2 minutes. So I have to keep on the move.

From that point it's just pure statistics...how often I engage a creep in a "hot-zone" if you will in which I'm exposed to map-ins is actually pretty high.

But let me say this, it's not JUST map-ins...it's also that bait and stealth stuff LOTS of warg/visibles love to use. (even when the visibles aren't in the know...)

Just yesterday I was riding around trying to find a fight, saw a BA and wheeled around...then I saw the second BA...they weren't exceptionally high ranks...I think 5 and 4...and now with purchased skills they hit VERY hard. I knew I'd lose but I thought I may be able to bring one down if they don't pop evade to coincide with my sprint...so I dismounted and tried to engage. WHAM pounced, and dead BEFORE the stun pot could even stand me back up. By a warg ranked enough to pose a significant challenge SOLO. (Even moreso after update 5...so we'll see then).

There's no reason those BAs needed the warg.
There's no reason the warg needed the BAs.

It was just a cruddy excuse for fighting insta kill.

Ok, so we chalk that up to bad place bad timing...but when it happens...oh, lets say...20 times in a couple hours? Then there is a gameplay trend that IMHO should be mitigated by changes to the mechanics.

Ok, but you just said numbers are the only answer to Warg packs and map-ins. You can avoid a map-in, I don't think you can totally avoid a group of wargs.

So other than avoiding the situation, the only answer to those scenarios, by your own assessment, is to group up. You aren't going to change the tactic by voicing opposition to the tactic on the forums. Turbine isn't going to change the game, nor should they, to negate it, so you are back to your realistic choices:

1. Avoid the situation.
2. Group up.

1. See above. It's nearly impossible to avoid the map-in range. As someone who doesn't do it you must not appreciate just how griefy it can become if a group decides to target me for the night.


2. Ok, lets just examine this...I'm actually curious about your response. BTW: everything I'm saying I'm using creep and freep from my perspective the EXACT same argument goes both ways. So no accusations of bias here.

a>Creeps use numbers because they feel (rightfully or otherwise) that they cannot beat me solo.
b>Solo's get rolled llots.
c>I group up to use "tactics" that will win.
d>Creeps can't beat groups so they start to raid only, i.e. like some groups do creepside and freepside currently.
e>One of the raids realize they don't have enough to combat the bigger raid the other side fields. They disband and with lots of complaining about the other "zerg" they log, or switch to the other side.
f>The bigger raid zergs the map, little is to be found elsewhere. People complain. The big raid eventually disbands after the map is flipped.

Rinse > Repeat.


This EXACT situation happened last night. It's pitiful.

What I would suggest is a FULL examination of WHY gameplay has devolved into numbers > all other considerations and MAYBE just MAYBE an implementation of mechanics that would encourage ALL sizes of groups and play. Rather than just zerging and ganking with numbers.

I have made suggestions about how I think certain creep skills (and I'm SURE there are freep skills too) that need to be examined or modified in order to SIMULTANEOUSLY increase creep power (btw it's not a nerf if the NET gain is positive). All in order to encourage a feeling of competativeness and not dispair that leads to playing in ways that result in non-competative fights.

THEN, once the sides have some sort of balance (I hate using that word...but it fits best here) I would suggest Turbine implement better objective based options for smaller and larger groups. Thusly encouraging movement around the map, splitting up, and working together but not all balled up. Hence my support for the map/horse gating mechanic. And hotspots. And all kinds of other rewards and objectives that would encourage more than just win via numbers.

It's actually kinda frustrating when I'm interpreted as being some sort of hater, some sort of troll, when honest to god all I'm trying to do is talk about and suggest (of course from my point of view) how I think the game could be better for a lot of people.

Of course, I am making one HUGE assumption. That people would rather have fun, engaging, and challenging fights over getting kicks and giggles from repeatedly face rolling others. I'm sure those players exist. And to them I guess I just have to say I don't think Turbine should support or encourage that playstyle for the better of other players.

One last disclaimer: I'm NOT talking about random oh crud I ran into a zerg of the other side and got rolled moments. I'm talking about purposeful utalization of the game mechanics to just roll smaller forces.

You are correct.

My original reference to this was exactly your example. I posted in Luc's "You buff the Creeps and buff the Creeps" thread. He asked what it would take to have Creeps NOT run from him, my response was that I would like the regen of healers and the mitigation of Uthredson, and as always I would like my BA to be able to actually dual weild. I gave him these points for something different to think about, it didnt work obviously. So I introduced it again in this thread, which by the way Luc's regen is twice that of my BA. Is that fair or unfair? Shall I complain endlessly or move on?

That said I hope you can see my point, and yes when a fight is over in less than one min in combat regen is not as ground breaking as you are trying to make my post seem. I am a happy Creep. I just do not like when Luc comes to the forums for unaware Creeps and Freeps to read his posts and have him appear to be an all knowing Champion of Landroval and have players who don't know all the mechanics take Luc's posts at face value without them being objected to.

One more thing, Luc, why did you run from me at Lugs last night, you burst monster of a Champ you?

My regen is twice...ok...we're talking about 1k vs 500 in a one minute fight? You have what? 12k morale to my 7k? How many BA/Champ fights last much more than a minute? Even at 2 minutes we're only talking about a discrepency of 1k morale.

Regardless of that, honest this isn't really about crunching numbers to me...why did I run?

You had at least 2 other creeps within my field of vision. Another BA and a Reaver...and another reaver that I knew was close because I tried engaging him when the second reaver came along.

That was a very interesting area for about 15 minutes last night. I think I finally managed to peel off Peteza and fight him...

I DID ride back up towards lugs multiple times in an attempt to draw one creep out...I think you were there two of the times...both times I was just trying to get a creep to have some distance from the others so as to give a chance at a 1v1 for a few seconds before it escelated into a 1v2 or 1v3 or 1v4. The funny thing is you talk about me "running away" I never once called out for freeps to come. I never once rode farther away than the first group of up top norbogs. I was out there trying to get a fight. Why didn't you come out past an evade buff and run distace to Lugs?

And I THINK...if it wasn't you it was another BA, when I first rode up to Lugs I pulled the northern most archer...I like to kill those 4 door guards for the 20 Lugs guards TR quest...and I was engaged with him when I saw the first BA and a defiler that was inside the keep. I burned my sprint to drop off that aggro...but that may have been before I saw you there with the other BA and reaver(s).

Oh...and that's another thing...see how many Fervour champs (heck maybe even Glory champs) can fight a BA, when engaged from range, without their sprint? That's a tough row to hoe. Even for the best of us. But you could've come down that hill. I was there. Right by that rock between the west norbogs and the stupid digger things.

---

I've never claimed to be all knowing btw. I do know what happens to me on a nightly basis. And I have witnessed every thing I'm talking about first hand. Frankly, I don't know how I can be labled as coming across as "all knowing" when you and others are doing the exact same thing just on the other side of the argument.

If we want to talk about some of the false truths and campaigns to overtalk Champ abilities on the MP forums we can. This 30k garbage is insane and completely unfounded. I've never made an assertion based so far in fantasy as something like that.

I have however, been tracked by stealthed players. I have been mapped in on. I have been called out. I have fought defilers and been unable to out dps their healing before I'm dead. I have lost fights to nearly every class of creep WHEN they choose to fight. (Exception is currently bugs...I'm glad to see them get some improvements...but i've had VERY few ranked bug fights to base that on...maybe 5 since ROI) Wargs are VERY close but need a teensy buff. Most of the ranked warg fights I've had have left me sub 1k morale. So it really just comes down to how effectively I use pots, or cooldowns, or they effectively use their skills. Very close, but yeah I've won more than 50%. So sure, they need a buff.

But then again, there are OTHER freep classes who are NOT having such success. So of course there's more to this than just a Champ perspective.

My point being, I have always, and will continue, to only speak for my perspective. If that comes across as if I'm making bigger statements than I am then I apologize. But I'm speaking about Champs balance with creepside, and the impacts I see to the game from my chair on my side of the monitor.

I BELIEVE there are things that would improve gameplay out there (again with that exception of people who just enjoy being jerks) for all, BOTH sides. And it's really sad that you can't see that.

[F1erceGam3r2]

...I wish more solo creeps would come at me.

"I'm here Huckleberry." We had a few close fights...double-bubble. grrrrrr I'd love to get a good jump on you & have Headshot proc the knockdown....awww yeah.

I think we ended up about even on the ganks, but that's what we get for being in a busy area...teehee

Gut Out!

[F1erceGam3r2]

I for one encourage this style of play, often players will not leave res circles unless they have a buddy to back them up. So I wait outside in plain view and when the two of them come to solo gank me, 3 BA's pop out behind a rock and shaft them. Many have called me the "master" baiter.

Yeah, I think I caught Dolmir coming from a rez with Last Stand on CD a time or two. It was a good day.

Gutlard Out!

[Thane9]

I see.

Well I agree that Luc's posts are almost always misinformed, but flaming him is not the answer. I doubt he'll stop posting either way so it's better to inform than to flame no?

What exactly am I misinformed about?

I admit I probably have a VERY different experience in the moors than 99% of the other players, somewhat driven by my choices, and somewhat driven by the choices of others to actively hunt and grief me. This is likely not the norm for most players.

But seriously. I'd like to know what I'm so utterly misinformed about.

Example:

Do players utalize stealth to use a bait character to obliterate solos? Yes.
Is that fun gameplay? IMHO no.
Should mechanics that enable it be examined? As a result of 1 and 2 yes.

I'm crystal clear about what is and what isn't my opinion. I'm not making some numbers game up. I'm just talking about gameplay and how it is driven by specific mechanics.

The question above yields other questions.

What motivates players to do this?

There are some answers that come to mind...I have sought out other answers and just get trolled and flamed and called a troll and berated for doing so.

So far the answers I've come up with:

Creepside, because they feel underpowered without resorting to that style of play.
Both sides, because they can.
Both sides, because cost/benefit of the game design and mechanics encourages it.

---

So then what do we do? We can look at the issue, and see the underlying mechanics that encourage it.

IMHO this:

Examine stealth/tracking mechanics.
Examine revamp renown mechanic.
Buff creeps.
Some combination of all.

EACH and every issue I talk about I can break down this way. I'm just not sure what all the venom and animosity towards me about it is. But I'll listen. Just don't expect me to accept what you say as somehow "truer" than what my experiences are. I'm not making anything up. This stuff happens to me every time I play.

[Thane9]

"I'm here Huckleberry." We had a few close fights...double-bubble. grrrrrr I'd love to get a good jump on you & have Headshot proc the knockdown....awww yeah.

I think we ended up about even on the ganks, but that's what we get for being in a busy area...teehee

Gut Out!

Yeah, that was a terrible area to fight in. The one with the second BA when I had blown all my "prep" cooldowns to try and get at you early and had you down to what was it? 200 or so? Ugh...But I had gotten you earlier when you had me down to 247...crazy.

I'm more convinced than ever that BAs are pretty much spot on right now at least compared to a fervour champ. I'm not claiming to be the best, but I have really solid gear and you were making me blow just about everything I have to have a chance.

It's that burst damage that happens so fast that I can't even pop a pot, heal skill, or bubble that is the hardest to overcome.

And I may be mistaken but I don't think I ever got both bubbles off in the same fight against you...either way that second one is only ~17XX or something like that...so it's not a huge buff. Considering I use Steeped morale pots and not the big ones that's offset by a few hundred right there.

I genuinely look forward to more fights...that jumping is possibly even more annoying than the evade skill. Crazy.

I would STRONGLY suggest BAs who don't think they match up with Freeps to attend a Gutlard training class.

I also look forward to Arctic and other ranked wargs post U5. He and I have had VERY close fights that I've I think if not always at least mostly been able to win, and I think this'll put him over the edge where I'll be losing as much as winning. I've had no less than 7 fights (I think 2 of them were Arctic) since ROI with wargs where I was sub 100 morale when it was over. CRAZY seeing double digit morale, because that just tells me it was a matter of the RNG on damage rolls that determined the winner.

[Danaca]

I don't really do much damage (on any of my characters), but I did want to comment on the healers portion of your post, Luc. Groups only.

Creep healers are designed to be very survivable, but with massive limitations on damage output. I can't talk too much about warleaders as I don't play one, but my defiler just doesn't add much to the fight beyond keeping DPS classes up longer, especially if I have a burg or champ annoying me as debuffs are mostly inductions.

Freep healers add a lot more to the fight in terms of buffs and damage, but with greater limitations on survivability. A freep healer has to be protected more, but in turn will increase the effectiveness of everyone else.

To summarize, for full effectiveness, creep healers need groups to DPS for them, while freep healers need groups to protect them. Which of those two things is more likely to happen?

[F1erceGam3r2]

I'm not sure about the double-bubble either, but with you champs I always assume the worst... Or maybe it was a fight where another creep joined and you had no choice.

If I have all skills up and a champ does, they usually win, but it's pretty close. If I had just a few extra lucky crits or devs, that might put me over the edge also.

If I have all my skills up, and I catch a champ unawares AND my Headshot procs, then he usually craps his pants...haha But that's facing the same freep multiple times, and with a 1in4 chance on the proc, but when it happens I /gigglepee.

I would say, you just never know what skills are up or down on a random encounter, so just try it. You just never know... Heck, I could have all my skills up against 3 freeps in a 3v1, and it could rain infamy. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's solid gold!

Gut Out!

[TheBigMenace]

Yeah, I think I caught Dolmir coming from a rez with Last Stand on CD a time or two. It was a good day.

Gutlard Out!

Strange since I haven't played for nearly a week, and have not been in the moors a longer time than that...

Someone must have hacked my account!!!

BRB CALLING TURBINE

[F1erceGam3r2]

Oh well, all you captains look alike from behind...

Gut Out!

[TheBigMenace]

Oh well, all you captains look alike from behind...

Gut Out!

I thought only rogues do it from behind?

Oh wait this is lotro...

I thought only burgs do it from behind?

[F1erceGam3r2]

Then everyone else is doing it wrong.

Gutlard Out!

[F1erceGam3r2]

I don't really do much damage (on any of my characters), but I did want to comment on the healers portion of your post, Luc. Groups only.

Creep healers are designed to be very survivable, but with massive limitations on damage output. I can't talk too much about warleaders as I don't play one, but my defiler just doesn't add much to the fight beyond keeping DPS classes up longer, especially if I have a burg or champ annoying me as debuffs are mostly inductions.

Freep healers add a lot more to the fight in terms of buffs and damage, but with greater limitations on survivability. A freep healer has to be protected more, but in turn will increase the effectiveness of everyone else.

To summarize, for full effectiveness, creep healers need groups to DPS for them, while freep healers need groups to protect them. Which of those two things is more likely to happen?

Like I've always said, your Slick Flesh is hawt...

Gutlard Out!

[leekofthewood]

There's very little left for me to say here that hasn't already been said, but I'll try!

I don't really want to go into the basis of many of these points made in the post, rather I'd like to address why Luc gets certain responses from certain people so very often for starters.

It's achingly apparant that first and foremost many people have a very short attention span. Since when did reading a couple paragraphs (sometimes a bit more) become such a difficult endeavor? On second thought, please don't answer that as I know the responses I'll get. Still, we're all adults here, ok for the most part, and I'm sure we're all capable of reading at such levels. The length of reading required isn't so much that we should get brain bubbles as some suggest. I'd shiver at some reactions at the proposition of reading an actual book from some.

It's similar to when Jaiyne and I are having a discussion and she'll bring up several points and by the time she's finished with what she's saying, I'll have forgotten my response to the first point she made. At the very least I'll have lost my ability to articulate my response in a way I would have liked in regards to her earlier comments for fear of missing out on her most recent comments. That can be frustrating. Thus going forward, I'd suggest several posts with each addressing a few key points instead of one addressing ten. This might cut down, again I said "might", on the number of hostile responses.

That brings up my next point which is, if you're responding to every single post one person makes with a predisposed negative attitude and your response is usual hostile, odds are you're trolling someone. Being trolled isn't a good feeling and odds are you wouldn't want to be trolled yourselves. Many of you probably don't even know Luc, have never spoken to him, fought with him or against him yet still react to everything he says with a negative tone. Believe it or not, the guy made some good points in his original post as others have already stated. I don't necassarily agree with everything he says but still, I see no reason why we can't keep these discussions a bit more civil. I've been guilty of trolling in the past myself, so I understand WHY some may be inclined to do so, but at this juncture I'm trying to make a concerted effort not to.

Now, as for my responses to this thread:

Charrk, ardour can have it's usefulness however given the two other options of Fervor and Glory in their current states, you probably won't see many champs using it. The aformentioned two choices just have too much going for them. While yes, the potential damage of a champs AOE fits very well into the pve side, in pvp all of that extra damage you could possibly get by hitting multiple targets at once is generally lost because there aren't enough targets available at one time to take full advantage of it in the majority of encounters. My guess is you would be hard pressed to find a "support" champ in the moors, which is where it would best be utilized.

Gutlard, while yes, the name nibbleu could be viewed as "naughty", just remember, she isn't available.

[F1erceGam3r2]

And all I read from what he said was...he doesn't listen to you Nibbleu. Gutlard is a great listener.

jaykay jaykay

Gutlard *and a great dancer* Out!

[TheBigMenace]

What exactly am I misinformed about?

You have various misconceptions of class mechanics, particularly creep ones, as demonstrated many times by your ramblings about blight needing a nerf and this force multiplier garbage (lol). You seem to think that creep healers are some sort of gods while ignoring what freep healers can do.

Also constantly complaining about players hunting you down is rather ridiculous, I have spent much more time creepside in the moors than freepside, and never has anyone formed a grief Luc group. I mean sure you get called out solo, but getting called out and mapped in on =/= griefing.

Do you know what it's called when a bunch of players come to kill you when your by yourself Luc? A gank. Guess what? This is an MMO with a pvp zone, people are going to gank you in any game where there is pvp and there is an imbalance in numbers. Sure some people care about the integrity of 1v1's or w.e. you call it but most don't and they will gank you. Does it suck? Yes, do I hate getting ganked? Obviously and no matter what you are going to step on some people's toes. Everyone thinks that they're god's gift to the game and when someone kills them proving otherwise they get mad. Sometimes they come flame you, sometimes they cry OP, other times they will come gank you, NEVER WILL THEY TAKE IT AS THEY MADE A MISTAKE. It's all part of the fun, if you've played a MMO for this long you should probably understand that...

Anyways turbine doesn't care if you get ganked, in fact they encourage group play, seeing as this is an MMO. If you want a fair 1v1 or a guarenteed 1v1 you have some options here:

1. Spar people in GV
2. Arrange "Luc's Fight Club of Honor and Destiny" where creep and freep a like can come and 1v1 for prizes, fun and many lulz. You can even devise rules to tailor the 1v1's to your liking, i.e. no running, no man heal, no weapons, etc.

Both are viable options, though I think #2 would be more interesting.

The developers don't read this forum so you are already fighting a lost cause, moreover the changes you suggested will never come to pass. Except for creep buffs which are coming with the next updat. Stealth is a frustrating mechanic, but only for the one getting jumped, and it has counters (which are bought with TP, so it's definitely not getting revamped now!). As for renown, it's already known that soloers make the most renown out of all players so there is already a risk/reward mechanic in place here.

Anyways, people gank because it's the easiest thing to do, it's especially pronounced with the low level of play that landroval has.

[Danaca]

I love how you must have a pre-made sad bunny ready for these pics.

Hehe, most of the stuff is reused at this point, best part of stick figure drawings! I can't seem to find the original post where you threatened to kill a bunny if I didn't read your whole post, though. I still laugh about that one.