What is , and not supposed to be fixed "soon"

[Cebra]

To be honest I like U6 sure we are still broken but we are significantly less broken then before it. With a class this complex and different from every other class in the game that is understandible and like you said those of us who play wardens seriously have long ago learned to work around the problems though it would be nice if the problems stayed more or less the same for more then 6 months.

How is this acceptable? Just because many are F2P does it mean that a company can release a broken product on a regular basis? It is the principle of paying customers being sold a broken product and the TOTAL LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL that pisses many of us off.

We (as Wardens) have given plenty of time, trust and most importantly money to Turbine to do their job. And we're only one part of the long list of things that are broken in Updates 4-6.

[HalProudFoot]

HalProudFoot I sence some resentment do you want to talk about it and let us know how you really feel

To answer to the question barried in the rant they are going to try to tone down our success in solo play and out on the moors. In addition I am sure that EoB will be cut back to be more "balanced" with the other threat skills that wardens have (though in my opinion they should try to meet halfway all of the theat gambits but EoB are currently almost useless). To be honest I like U6 sure we are still broken but we are significantly less broken then before it. With a class this complex and different from every other class in the game that is understandible and like you said those of us who play wardens seriously have long ago learned to work around the problems though it would be nice if the problems stayed more or less the same for more then 6 months.

Yeah i have a bit of pent up anger at Turbine when it comes to the warden class. Given what i've seen with regard to wardens i think Turbine is contractually obligated to find some way of screwing our class over ever single update and expansion.

Turbine hates the warden class!!!!

[khaipur]

I've been playing a warden as my main since they introduced the class back in 2008 and on the whole I agree that they tend to break wardens often. You get used to it and eventually get cynical about anounced "fixes" though the last 6 months or so has been worse then ever before.

Wardens are a unique class and I have always asumed that none of the Devs or GMs actually play one or at least I have never seen any of them comment on it if they do. This seems to result in a case where thier theory doesn't match reality. If you look at what wardens have without taking into account the inheirent limitations of the gambit system we look amazing and god like. We have average mitigation for the classes meaning medium armor but almost every warden is maxed out, and until RoI that was good enough, we have excellent self healing and, gambit for skill, a higher threat rating on average then a guard; multiple skills that can give massive damage spread over 10 enemies while self healing almost as much. The problem that non warden players often dont seem to grasp is that even with masteries, battle memory and battle prep gambits take time to build and that means that while most of our threat skills do more then a guard equivilent it's almost as if we have a 2 too 6 seconds uninteruptable induction for every skill. And we often can't get perfect self heal rotation and hold threat at the same time.

[Thularil]

I cannot help but think that anyone who is complaining about EoB right now has either not solo tanked T2 endgame content (or with another warden as the only two tanks for Saurman or another 2-tank instance), or is a guardian posing as a warden and trying to keep the class broken. And yeah, I do think this could be going on. Know of any 2-boxers in the Moors farming themselves for audacity and/or renown/infamy? I do. It's sad, but possible.
We need to be able to fire off 2 EoBs at the beginning of a fight so that we can get aggro mmediately and quickly start building defensive buffs. Refreshing it every 5th or 6th gambit to maintain threat allows us to spend the other 4 or 5 gambits surviving. I understand that some people are shocked at the numbers (70k threat), but I don't cae what the numbers say. It could generate 2k threat, a million, whatever. It is the result that matters, and that result needs to be a way to quickly and solidly build threat because if we can't dedicate ourselves to survivability, we aren't going to be alive for long. And DC isn't the answer. Thye animation is long, and the force agro is too short. If you think that will let you tank, you'll be right for about 5 seconds. Then the mobs will go back to who they were on before, kill them, and by the time you get them back on you, you'll have no defenses up or self heals and will go down like a rag doll.

[Vikverjar]

Just scaling back things from the high end superduper-geared 75's here, let's have a look at something that affects the early game.
I decided to play my 3rd warden for a bit yesterday, just to get some wood/ore while questing, slayer deeds for points and whatnot. The char is lvl 12. I have both Perservere and Impressive flourish gambits. Self heals. Unfortunately, with the new features of this fancy update, in order for those two gambits to heal me, I need a stance that doesn't become available until lvl 20. Perservere at lvl 6, Impressive Flourish at lvl 9, stance that makes them work, lvl 20. Do I even want to try getting to lvl 20 with this character anymore? Perhaps it's time to give the Loremaster a go instead.

What is that windows feature called... system restore to earlier savepoint or similar. Where is the Warden pre U6 restore button at?

[khaipur]

Just scaling back things from the high end superduper-geared 75's here, let's have a look at something that affects the early game.
I decided to play my 3rd warden for a bit yesterday, just to get some wood/ore while questing, slayer deeds for points and whatnot. The char is lvl 12. I have both Perservere and Impressive flourish gambits. Self heals. Unfortunately, with the new features of this fancy update, in order for those two gambits to heal me, I need a stance that doesn't become available until lvl 20. Perservere at lvl 6, Impressive Flourish at lvl 9, stance that makes them work, lvl 20. Do I even want to try getting to lvl 20 with this character anymore? Perhaps it's time to give the Loremaster a go instead.

What is that windows feature called... system restore to earlier savepoint or similar. Where is the Warden pre U6 restore button at?

Ha didnt ever even think of that problem they should really add self heal to the stanceless version even if not a HoT it should be enough for low levels.

[thore168]

How is this acceptable? Just because many are F2P does it mean that a company can release a broken product on a regular basis? It is the principle of paying customers being sold a broken product and the TOTAL LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL that pisses many of us off.

We (as Wardens) have given plenty of time, trust and most importantly money to Turbine to do their job. And we're only one part of the long list of things that are broken in Updates 4-6.

I became F2P (after 3 years roughly), because of ROI release and how they damaged the warden. And from the looks of things, I won't be returning as a P2P member anytime soon. I'm just flat tired of my favorite class being at this level of bugged/broken. It's been what? 2 years of solid bugs and poorly executed changes? The warden has become a wonderful concept doomed by incompetence and lack of foresight.

[Darlgon]

Just scaling back things from the high end superduper-geared 75's here, let's have a look at something that affects the early game.
I decided to play my 3rd warden for a bit yesterday, just to get some wood/ore while questing, slayer deeds for points and whatnot. The char is lvl 12. I have both Perservere and Impressive flourish gambits. Self heals. Unfortunately, with the new features of this fancy update, in order for those two gambits to heal me, I need a stance that doesn't become available until lvl 20. Perservere at lvl 6, Impressive Flourish at lvl 9, stance that makes them work, lvl 20. Do I even want to try getting to lvl 20 with this character anymore? Perhaps it's time to give the Loremaster a go instead.

What is that windows feature called... system restore to earlier savepoint or similar. Where is the Warden pre U6 restore button at?

God.. I missed that.. Yeah.. that is not good. Kinda like making War-Cry not have a Threat component.

[Followthelight]

Good thing they fixed the random names from popping up on my screen ./sarcasm off

Why was this Update even released?? They didnt give an advanced date they had to meet, they announced it a few days before hand. Me thinks it would be intelligent to wait a week or 2 and deliver a finished product.

Last I heard Toyota wasnt selling cars with 3 tires and telling you to come back in 2 weeks for the 4th :/

[Hydragyrum]

Good thing they fixed the random names from popping up on my screen ./sarcasm off

Why was this Update even released?? They didnt give an advanced date they had to meet, they announced it a few days before hand. Me thinks it would be intelligent to wait a week or 2 and deliver a finished product.

Last I heard Toyota wasnt selling cars with 3 tires and telling you to come back in 2 weeks for the 4th :/

Probably because someone who is never involved in the development cycle and never plays the game ordered the devs to release a hotfix/patch by 3/21. It was also quite apparent that U6 was released against the developer's (Orion) wishes. I'm sure he would have wanted to delay the Warden re-vamp until it was more functional, but his boss told him it HAD to be packaged with U6.

[gunlang]

When i hit Preparing for Battle, spear and shield only adds spear. Its working normally with normal gambit building though.
Anyone else have that bug too?

[Vizeyr]

Gunlang: Yep, well known and quite well documented. And apparently too hard to fix.

My take home message for this entire situation is that this mysterious QA team exists solely for the purpose of scapegoat when Turbine can invoke them to make excuses for the continued shoddy quality of their product. If this was not the case, then RoI, U5, and U6 would never have been released in the state that they were.

Oh, but I forget. When there are new store items to be implemented so that TP and $$ can be spent (especially big ticket items like expansions, new zones, and 1000TP barter wallets) that trumps everything.


My ViP is expiring next month, and will not be renewed. I will not be buying further TP points or expansions. I will be moving along when a certain competitor is released. This may not have been the case in the past but I can no longer support the apathy towards the player and the uniformly low quality of the product.

[Orion]

Nope, still here, just lurking and on other things at the moment. Yes, there is a measure of dissatisfaction on my end for the Warden being as buggy as it is/was at U6 launch. I also know that we are far closer to having it as it was intended.

Hotfixes, sadly, are not a time where we can push a lot through so not all the fixes made it...

[Lazlo_Hollyfeld]

Nope, still here, just lurking and on other things at the moment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

that's some interesting resource management practices yall got there

[Erasluindor]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

that's some interesting resource management practices yall got there

Orion isnt strictly the warden dev. He deals with other classes and areas that need help as well. As much as i would love to see a month dedicated entirely to fixing the warden we are not the only area of the game thats buggy.

[HalProudFoot]

Nope, still here, just lurking and on other things at the moment. Yes, there is a measure of dissatisfaction on my end for the Warden being as buggy as it is/was at U6 launch. I also know that we are far closer to having it as it was intended.

Hotfixes, sadly, are not a time where we can push a lot through so not all the fixes made it...

That does nothing to quell my rage Orion. Fixing the warden as intended for all the was promised in U6 will stop it,nothing more and nothing less.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot by not letting Orion do his job and getting a finished product out to the customers. Hear that? I said finished product,not some rushed half assed piece of ####. You're all really good at pissing customers off with terrible decisions. I'm gonna do what you (Turbine) fears most. I'm gonna tell my friends how terrible Turbine is and they'll tell their friends and so forth. I'm gonna get the word out and people will know. You (Turbine) doesn't care so that means i don't need to care either.

[Erasluindor]

That does nothing to quell my rage Orion.
.

Someone said the word rage! Oh No!!!
On to another subject

When are we getting ferrets?
How long are we gonna have to wait?
All we need is a freaking ferret and the nightmare is over.
Tell me now!

[disappearingone]

That does nothing to quell my rage Orion. Fixing the warden as intended for all the was promised in U6 will stop it,nothing more and nothing less.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot by not letting Orion do his job and getting a finished product out to the customers. Hear that? I said finished product,not some rushed half assed piece of ####. You're all really good at pissing customers off with terrible decisions. I'm gonna do what you (Turbine) fears most. I'm gonna tell my friends how terrible Turbine is and they'll tell their friends and so forth. I'm gonna get the word out and people will know. You (Turbine) doesn't care so that means i don't need to care either.

Have you ever played any other MMO? Listening to community feedback and releasing playable updates are areas Turbine Shines. They are not always perfect but they try harder them most. Just look at the number of extremely broken WoW updates and and patches to name one MMO way worse then LotRO. Then there are other MMO Developers(SoE,Playonline,ect) who couldn't care less about what the playerbase thinks of the content they release and have proven that time after time. Granted some small things i can think of fell threw the cracks and stayed broke way to long ie:RK trait bonus, but this is the worst update that everwent live on lotro as far as i can recall.

[Fin.]

Have you ever played any other MMO? Listening to community feedback and releasing playable updates are areas Turbine Shines. They are not always perfect but they try harder them most. Just look at the number of extremely broken WoW updates and and patches to name one MMO way worse then LotRO. Then there are other MMO Developers(SoE,Playonline,ect) who couldn't care less about what the playerbase thinks of the content they release and have proven that time after time. Granted some small things i can think of fell threw the cracks and stayed broke way to long ie:RK trait bonus, but this is the worst update that everwent live on lotro as far as i can recall.

So you say - in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Sorry but that is not how things should be. Just because Turbine is bit better then some other mmo companies, does not make Turbine a good company.

Turbine does have loooong list of releasing half-finished and buggy content, coupled with the fact their fixes and patches come at super slow rate. Very poor developer>player communication. Oh and that they listen to our feedback? I would say 99% of threads in suggestion board would beg to differ. Just because Turbine implemented something, and conveniently it was also what players wanted, does not mean they listen to feedback.

The simple truth is Turbine is not able to properly fix a class for almost 7 months, and counting. And that is just one issue among many.

@Orion
It is shame how decision making and priority selection is made, but I guess you don't have much to say in such process. And admitting that you were even pulled to work on other things is bit sad/depressing news for warden community.

[Faithbringer]

U6 was a buggy step in the right direction. Orion has made it clear that he agrees. Give him time to work without flipping out. Or flip out. Orion is a big boy in my opinion. He reads enough on these forums to know which Wardens provide the REAL feedback from the front-lines. FYI it's not the ones who are RAGING.

[Hydragyrum]

U6 was a buggy step in the right direction. Orion has made it clear that he agrees. Give him time to work without flipping out. Or flip out. Orion is a big boy in my opinion. He reads enough on these forums to know which Wardens provide the REAL feedback from the front-lines. FYI it's not the ones who are RAGING.

Exactly how much time should we give Turbine before getting upset? A month? A year? Indefinite? Any other service that I buy, including entertainment services, are contacted immediately if said service is broken. Why is it that MMOs are given months upon months to fix their broken service? If my cable was malfunctioning for months, I'd be demanding refunds. If my ISP was slower than advertised, I'd be demanding refunds. If a movie at the theater loses sound, I'd demand a refund. etc. etc. Why MMOs are immune to upholding a functional service is beyond me. Probably because the players are told that it's "normal" and thus don't voice their complaints with their wallets. Or because we're hopelessly addicted.

[thunderchickn]

Exactly how much time should we give Turbine before getting upset? A month? A year? Indefinite? Any other service that I buy, including entertainment services, are contacted immediately if said service is broken. Why is it that MMOs are given months upon months to fix their broken service? If my cable was malfunctioning for months, I'd be demanding refunds. If my ISP was slower than advertised, I'd be demanding refunds. If a movie at the theater loses sound, I'd demand a refund. etc. etc. Why MMOs are immune to upholding a functional service is beyond me. Probably because the players are told that it's "normal" and thus don't voice their complaints with their wallets. Or because we're hopelessly addicted.

Or because somehow you honestly can't tell the difference between MMOs and the other services you listed?

[Regero]

That does nothing to quell my rage Orion. Fixing the warden as intended for all the was promised in U6 will stop it,nothing more and nothing less.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot by not letting Orion do his job and getting a finished product out to the customers. Hear that? I said finished product,not some rushed half assed piece of ####. You're all really good at pissing customers off with terrible decisions. I'm gonna do what you (Turbine) fears most. I'm gonna tell my friends how terrible Turbine is and they'll tell their friends and so forth. I'm gonna get the word out and people will know. You (Turbine) doesn't care so that means i don't need to care either.

I think it's funny that whenever we get an update or a patch, instead of being grateful for what we have and honest about what we don't, you people crop up and begin mindlessly raging all over again.

What's wrong with just enjoying the bloody game? Why all the number crunching? Why so much perfectionism? Why so much rage? Y'all need to chill. As I've said like 50 times in 2 weeks now: We are better off than before, substantially so. let's enjoy it and be happy for such nice changes. Stop raging and obsessing over a few silly little bugs that are so easily worked around.

[Cebra]

U6 was a buggy step in the right direction. Orion has made it clear that he agrees. Give him time to work without flipping out. Or flip out. Orion is a big boy in my opinion. He reads enough on these forums to know which Wardens provide the REAL feedback from the front-lines. FYI it's not the ones who are RAGING.

Take your head out the sand, look around and realise that many of us who are getting upset are not complaining about Orion, we are complaining about the company and who is behind these broken release schedules. There's more going on than just Warden issues. It is the modus operandi taken by either Turbine or Warner Brothers, the trend for declining quality releases has been set, what company in their right mind has a 12 day beta period?

I'll sing praises to Orion anywhere and everywhere I can, a talented and unique individual who is sadly enslaved by an evil Overlord.

[Harperelle]

I honestly don't understand the nerd-rage here. When minstrel was updated, there was a similar level of bugs and some OP skills as well as a couple of minor nerfs. But people didn't come unglued like they did here. Perhaps it was the fact that minstrels were so obviously better than before. Perhaps it was the existance of an excellent visual class guide. Perhaps it was simply that minstrels are nicer than wardens? I don't know. What I do know is this:

We are better now in nearly every category there is.
Survivability
Threat generation
Flexibility
DPS

Some of our existing go-to skills are less important than before:
Precise Blow
Conviction
Restoration
Aggression

Some of our old lesser skills are incredibly powerful now:
Exultation of Battle
Celebration of Skill
Surety of Death
Dance of War

Some new skills introduce new mechanics:
Battle Prepartion
Assailment

I've heard it mentioned many times that Wardens are broken, the warden is buggy, the warden is messed up. The problem isn't the class--its the wardens playing the class. Learn to adapt to the new mechanics and you will find the end results greatly improved over preU6. There are bugs there (just like when Minstrel launched) but none that you can't work around and these -will- be fixed. So please stop the nerd-rage and just learn the new mechanics. Its getting tiring hearing the same complaints over and over again.

--Harper