BAD 1v1 Thread

[Nuth_KM]

I know Haz, and I understand. It's just tiresome being constantly ganked and then have some self-serving creep complain about having his 6-8 man zerged by a raid.. meanwhile he's the same one that takes his 6-8 man and kills me (and/or another solo player) in Grothum. Likewise, some warg pack leaders, who I thought held themselves to a similar higher level of standard, gank solo players with their warg packs whenever they get the chance. Additionally, the constant call-out of solo players creepside. It astounds me at the level of hypocrisy demonstrated by some and accepted by most. (and no.. not aimed at you either Haz .. I do enjoy our fights and we win/lose and take our licks and know we fought a good fight!)

Maybe it is for the best, as another poster put it, that we see the enemy and we fight the enemy. In whatever form or circumstance that takes.

[Gillianrial]

I've been losing some respect for the freeps I used to do many 1v1s with because of this.. Not saying you exactly Nuth being as I used this quote from you. Just in general!! Don't want to offend anyone in this just my opinion! <3 -Haz

This street goes two ways, though. Gank a solo player that many times and really, who can tell the difference between who is playing with "respect" and who isn't. I can't read minds but I definitely remember the players who pack me over and over, and then decide it's time to play nice when it's convenient for them.

2 of my kinmates were creepside yesterday morning while I was RP playing around with a few of you guys in HH. They later showed me the chat. I was like...really?

At any rate, we're all out there for fun, right? So let's have some

ps - the "good" 1v1 thread wasn't supposed to lead to anything negative. Good intentions and all that.

[tykoshi]

I'll agree, getting ganked by a larger group repeatedly gets tiresome very fast. I've been run over by enough zergs to know that firsthand. And therein lies the seed of what's grown, as from there it very quickly devolves into a "to heck with it, it's been done to me. Why should I care?"

From the very first warg pack I ever led, I tried to keep some measure of respect in what I did. Same with open raids. Solos got ganked, yes, but I tried to limit the number of times. What did I get? Hate messages! Hell, I got accused of leading a warg pack while I was actually playing my hunter in Dunland! I got more hate, and I wasn't even in the Moors! Anyone familiar with how I lead knows I don't shrink from clashing with a larger number of raiding freeps. But I was accused of never taking that course of action.

Why should I keep trying to hold to some standard that isn't returned?

I try to find some solo fights when I log on each evening. What I usually find - if I find any - are a couple that are hugging NPCs in HH or EC. More often than not, it's time for the next spin of the freep zerg cycle (which leads in tern to the creep zerg).

I used to have a lot of respect for a larger number of freepside players. That's been dwindling rapidly. I tried to keep a certain level of honor (for lack of a better word). What I got in exchange was hate and disrepect.

I'm not saying I'm a saint. I know I'm not. But before anyone (either side) tries to sling it, look in the mirror cuz you already have it on your face.

-pup-

[Horrifying]

bad 1v1 experience! Me and darksmoke are fighting by wtab and its starting out really good.. i get jumped by a few freeps.. they stop hitting me ! So when me and darks health regenerates (my cds are blown by now) we continue even though I know I have less of a chance of winning at this point.. only to be jumped by a champ Sorry Dark!! We will someday have another shot at that 1v1! - Haz

P.S. I understand both points Puppy and Jaiyne its just sad that the moors is turning this way. <3

[Allaster1]

Is it a bad 1v1 when a Rank 9 Hunter runs you threw HH. Get 14 Hobbits on me including the Mayor, I still fight him, he still runs. When I clear the NPC's he chases, i turn to fight him again he runs back in only to meet a warg in HH.

Thanks Prispine your timely pounce was epic on that fail hunter.

[Thane9]

ps - the "good" 1v1 thread wasn't supposed to lead to anything negative. Good intentions and all that.

I believe you. But I also kinda agree with the point being made.

1v1 has been redefined on our server by a large number of players, and that confusion around the meaning has really heightened a lot of the freep v freep animosity.

It's really a shame, because the thread in theory is awesome. I don't always get the opportunity before the creep releases or when I lose to swordsalute to recognize a fight well fought, or even a quick bow to recognize that they were outpowered and I'll be looking for them with friends or at a higher rank to get me back.

The whole vibe of the moors just feels off right now and it's a shame. When it's fun the moors are REALLY fun.

[CRUSHUC]

Yep, Ugly, that is a bad 1v1 and also why i will not fight a 1v1 in HH anymore. NPC huggers won't get much action.

Good points Jaiyne, Pupz, and Haz.

I make it a point not to call out solos in occ, but I will in tribe chat so some of my tribemates that do run solo can find some action. I will call out small groups - but never by names, I always call out numbers and location.

I agree, solos getting ganked on a regular basis stinks - but I've become used to it, no point getting mad. There's nothing like being caught out of stealth and on cd's with the entire freep raid running at you - just sit back and watch the light show and have a laugh.

Sometimes, in small wargpacks (3-4), it's happenstance that we roam and find a solo - we'll eat it, but we don't intentionally try to gank the same player over and over and over. If after a second time, we'll leave that player alone if we see them solo. Regardless of what you think about some of the creep leaders out there, there are some that do play with respect and do play by a standard to ensure a good time can be had by all involved. It may not seem like it to some on the other side - but it does exist.

[Forza]

Well, considering some classes don't have a chance against the other, and adding to that that a lot of times people that's soloing "right now" were with a raid "last night", it's really hard not to want them dead.

[gleowine]

This thread made me laugh so I figured I'd add to the consternation. Freeps have had it super easy the vast majority of the time in comparison to creeps. For days, weeks, months at a time you camped greenies at grams or wherever you could. Hell some of you even went INTO grams to do it. Now you are surprised that after all this time some don't respect you? Are you serious? Treat people like #### when you have it easy and they are going to start really disliking you. That is the way it goes people. Heck, only the absolute best creeps have ever stood a decent chance against even the mediocre freeps (in most cases).

You reaped what you sowed. You were massively overpowered, and you treated the enemy like a farm pig. Now you are mad the farm pig is treating you with disdain the few times they can? Look, seriously, I'm outside of all this and I know what each class is capable of as I have played most every single one at end game moors level. You faceroll people long enough they are going to get pissed off and treat everyone on the other side the exact way they were treated. This is no shocker.

Now do the decent people get hurt in this too. Yes. However, judging from the comments of it happens to me so I'm going to do it back why in the world do you blame people when the 'high and mighty' people are now saying they will do it too?

Look. Only you can determine what kind of person you are in the moors. If you want to be a decent person be one. Yes, you will die. Hell I was decent and never let anyone talk bad about an opponent in any of my raids, I defended people on the other side on the boards and in OOC every night I was on. You know what? I was still mostly target number one and ganked in almost every single 1 v 1 I was in. Hell I was never even allowed to do the fight club without 3-5 burgs, lms, whatever ganking me during the fight. Grow up already, it's a silly game and is inconsequential to anything in life. Have fun and don't let anyone else change what/who you are.

[TackyFailz]

Well, never thought I would need to post on this thead but.... things happen.


Nice 1v1 there Milnor till it actually became a close fight (first time in a long while) and Lalgo couldn't have his captain losing a 1v1.

I wouldn't have made this a big deal since I realize you do group with Lalgo and others often but seeing as how Fellrotten and Lalgo were both watching until the fight got closer to being a tie and not a definitive win for you is when they decided to intervene.


But for the actual 1v1 part of that fight, it was quite intense.

[sarefx]

Well, never thought I would need to post on this thead but.... things happen.


Nice 1v1 there Milnor till it actually became a close fight (first time in a long while) and Lalgo couldn't have his captain losing a 1v1.

I wouldn't have made this a big deal since I realize you do group with Lalgo and others often but seeing as how Fellrotten and Lalgo were both watching until the fight got closer to being a tie and not a definitive win for you is when they decided to intervene.


But for the actual 1v1 part of that fight, it was quite intense.

lol u must have not gotten all circumstances =) firstable I was in the group we were scattered looking for creeps. When I found u, I was just playing around waiting for lal and fell to come, when they came they thought I was having 1v1, but Im not traited for solo and for 1v1s, and if u noticed I had telling mark on u almost whole time. U know me better I dont put telling mark in 95% 1v1s =) But when I finally start raging at lal and fell for standing there and making it look like 1v1 i was going down quick, so they helped me at the end. If u want 1v1 let me know I will fight u any day, but dont put me in 1v1 bad thread when u dont know all circumstances.

[TackyFailz]

lol u must have not gotten all circumstances =) firstable I was in the group we were scattered looking for creeps. When I found u, I was just playing around waiting for lal and fell to come, when they came they thought I was having 1v1, but Im not traited for solo and for 1v1s, and if u noticed I had telling mark on u almost whole time. U know me better I dont put telling mark in 95% 1v1s =) But when I finally start raging at lal and fell for standing there and making it look like 1v1 i was going down quick, so they helped me at the end. If u want 1v1 let me know I will fight u any day, but dont put me in 1v1 bad thread when u dont know all circumstances.

If you were not traited/nor in the mood for a 1v1 why would you engage me? And then on top of that why would they have sat there and watched if it wasn't in fact a 1v1.

But all I see from what you stated was that if you were to mess up in a 1v1 whether it be you forgot a trait or you messed up a rotation that it is no longer in your favor therefore no longer a 1v1.


Makes no sense. You are an AWESOME cappy I would even put you up as THE best cappy, even without your "preferred traits" you were either going to be close or beat me STILL. But because you went below half it was no longer considered a 1v1.


Also, if you just wanted to end the fight you could have easily just slowed and ran back to the rez or since Lalgo was there and is awesome at healing in the moors could have asked him to throw you heals and just stopped attacking and I would have got the picture or in your words "known the circumstances."

[sarefx]

If you were not traited/nor in the mood for a 1v1 why would you engage me? And then on top of that why would they have sat there and watched if it wasn't in fact a 1v1.

But all I see from what you stated was that if you were to mess up in a 1v1 whether it be you forgot a trait or you messed up a rotation that it is no longer in your favor therefore no longer a 1v1.


Makes no sense. You are an AWESOME cappy I would even put you up as THE best cappy, even without your "preferred traits" you were either going to be close or beat me STILL. But because you went below half it was no longer considered a 1v1.


Also, if you just wanted to end the fight you could have easily just slowed and ran back to the rez or since Lalgo was there and is awesome at healing in the moors could have asked him to throw you heals and just stopped attacking and I would have got the picture or in your words "known the circumstances."

Before getting in details, group of 3 must have 1v1 a reaver passing by? We were out looking for kills, I was scouting found u, told lal and fell to come, but they stood there doing nothing while I was messing with u while I was waiting for them to come since I didnt know how far they were from because they were chasing some spider. I understand ur frustration getting rolled by bigger groups, but if u dont know what is really happening and have no info dont post useless thread trying to make someone else look bad. See u in the moors tacky.

[TackyFailz]

Before getting in details, group of 3 must have 1v1 a reaver passing by? We were out looking for kills, I was scouting found u, told lal and fell to come, but they stood there doing nothing while I was messing with u while I was waiting for them to come since I didnt know how far they were from because they were chasing some spider. I understand ur frustration getting rolled by bigger groups, but if u dont know what is really happening and have no info dont post useless thread trying to make someone else look bad. See u in the moors tacky.

As far as groups having to let a 1v1 go, no they don't but don't let it go until you are losing. (which as we all know freeps do more damage and creeps have more morale so only by first glance would someone even think that you were losing)

And as far as not getting the facts and "useless posting" I recall you doing that countless times about this very matter. So I will ignore the hypocrisy there. (Now I know you are going to comment on this but unfortunately don't have the time nor care enough to look for the proof but it had something to do with Burzumgoth kiting you or something like that.)

And seeing as how you are a fellow soloer and you forsake soloing like the next guy just proves how dead soloing truly is. I suppose I just need to be like the next guy and only join Budhorn/Plok raids until the official end of all PVP in this game.

[sarefx]

As far as groups having to let a 1v1 go, no they don't but don't let it go until you are losing. (which as we all know freeps do more damage and creeps have more morale so only by first glance would someone even think that you were losing)

And as far as not getting the facts and "useless posting" I recall you doing that countless times about this very matter. So I will ignore the hypocrisy there. (Now I know you are going to comment on this but unfortunately don't have the time nor care enough to look for the proof but it had something to do with Burzumgoth kiting you or something like that.)

And seeing as how you are a fellow soloer and you forsake soloing like the next guy just proves how dead soloing truly is. I suppose I just need to be like the next guy and only join Budhorn/Plok raids until the official end of all PVP in this game.

Yes I was losing to u, but I was not fighting u for real in first place. I didnt try or planed to "1v1" u. I was in a group looking for kills. U want 1v1 let me know. I said what I had to say lol U r going way offtopic =P and btw PVP is dead in this game, dont like it than stop playing and wait for GW2. And I dont feel like replying u anymore since u stated before that u r good at trolling ppl, and Im bad at that, so I will lose argument anyways =P

[TackyFailz]

Yes I was losing to u, but I was not fighting u for real in first place. I didnt try or planed to "1v1" u. I was in a group looking for kills. U want 1v1 let me know. I said what I had to say lol U r going way offtopic =P and btw PVP is dead in this game, dont like it than stop playing and wait for GW2. And I dont feel like replying u anymore since u stated before that u r good at trolling ppl, and Im bad at that, so I will lose argument anyways =P

I am good at trolling? lawl what?

And as far as "oh I will 1v1 you anytime" yea of course you can say that. Easy saying that from freep to creep. I could easily be like get on your ptw BA and fight my mini. It's nonsense.

My whole argument here is not that you zerged me, but that because you were losing was the reason that you zerged me. They waited for your call to zerg. If it was they just rolled up and zerged me from the get-go there would be nothing needed to be said. But that is not what happened. They waited for your call.

And as far as GW2 I don't care. Just because you put a minor hinder in my enjoyment of this game at one moment in time isn't going to make me stop playing. lol

Who's mighty at trolling again?

[Thane9]

SO much angst and sadness would vanish if people stopped metagaming and trying to insist a 1:1 can occur when more than 2 players are present.

You are NOT a soloer if you think others shouldn't jump in. Or I'd you think jumping up and down somehow grants you immunity to all other players except the one you want to fight.

Haha. Under the "rules" some people play by I'd be R15 right now guaranteed.

Freeps, fight the creeps.
Creeps, fight the freeps.
No matter what side you're on if you get rolled hit that release button and instantly with no penalty get back at it. Simple as that.

The map is HUGE try using it once in awhile. If you really want to catch someone alone it can be done. I know.

But with those fights comes a lot if pain and getting rolled. Suck it up. There's no penalty for death. Heh. I remember when there WAS. I doubt many of you 'soloers' could've handled it back in the day.

[Thane9]

So you will farm a low ranked creep just as long as it doesn't become noticeable on a leaderboards?
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Are you having problems reading? Or just comprehending? If I run across a creep, ANY creep I will fight them. If it's a severely mismatched fight, I will not generally stay around to fight again, thereby abusing the mismatch. But I'm not going to just ignore them not knowing the situation or who they are or are not grouped with. As for the 3 Xs guideline I try to stick to, that's for creeps who SPECIFICALLY come at me again and again. Often these can be fun fights as attrition DOES work in favour of creeps...in fact that's mainly how I ranked my Reaver...by continually getting back to the fight before the solo had a chance to recover.

Ah but see you do that to everyone else with just about every post you make. You tell everyone else they are Metagaming and that their playstyle is the "wrong" playstyle but in the end they are playing the way in which they enjoy and that the mechanic of the game allows. Just like how your "non-metagaming" is the playstyle in which you enjoy.
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Collusion and playing the game in an unintended way breaks the game and makes future development nearly impossible. I'm sorry you can't see how problematic fightclubbing is versus open pvmp.

Hypocrite, there it is my proof of the above stated. Just because a multitude of creeps came your way you MUST have been called out. There you go, thinking you know what their intentions were but in fact they are playing EXACTLY how you want them to play. Kill the opposing side..

I never said they "must" have been called out. I sad specifically when groups do that specifically. And I know for a fact they do from time to time because I've had the tells and emails sent to me bragging about how they spent the last hour just doing that JUST to harrass and grief me. There's a difference between playing a competative game against an opponent and griefing...again I'm sorry you can't see that difference.

Though I agree in some of what you state here you are also very wrong in other areas.

The small groups/raids get called out WAY more than any solo does though that of course yes there are many solo call outs that do go on during any given day on BOTH sides.

And as far as solo/grouping benefits vs costs issue. Yes soloing has more of a cost to it but on any given day unless there are only 2 people playing the opposing side and avoiding the grouped players grouping will ALWAYS give more benefit.

24 man raid kills one creep 10-20 reknown/infamy now factor in the speed in which they are killing and the multitudes that they are able to kill will with no doubt hold more benefit than that maybe 240 reknown/infamy that you earned in that 1h period..

Call outs aren't the key issue. The key issue is numbers. Any number > 1. Not any number is greater than 2. Less numbers are greater than 24.

The raid renown multiplier is one of the more broken mechanics in the game. I'm not sure what your point is about raid gains vs soloing. It's clearly in favor of raiding. In fact it's hard coded to be in favour of raiding.

Now as far as this is concerned you are still yet again wrong. Fight clubs happen when there is a shortage of one or the other side. Therefore there may be 2-3 on one side of the fight club and then 8 on the other(rough numbers). You have to factor in how many times one person will fight the other. You also have to factor in that the time it takes for the loser(s) to come back usually will take near as long as the fight they had just lost depending on location. Also with that the fightclubs that you hate so dearly truly only last 1 to 3 hours if its slow day. Usually when people start announcing that a fightclub is in progress more and more do show up and it eventually turns into a grouped thing and then back to good'ol zergVzerg..

Not true. Fight clubs happen whenever two people collude to fight and others collude to ignore them fighting. That is heightened reward for the risk. AND they're happening more and more and more often. That's undisputable. And the fact that they're happening more often yet "2-3 on one side and 8 on the other" is NOT more common leads one to believe that they're occuring all different times.

Slow day = lower returns for ALL playstyles, except fightclubs...see you're missing my entire point. Fightclubs REMOVE the cost of time spent from the equation. There could be 500 creeps and freeps on and a fightclub would yield the same numbers as if there were 2 freeps and 2 creeps on. Assuming no interruptions...which are YELLED at and called names when they happen...so one has to assume the fightclubbers don't want interruptions.

But anywho, about either of us changing the others mind about ANYTHING, you are correct it will never happen. You and I are both stubborn and firm placed on where we stand and we will not change that. We can pick and prod at every little word we say in these walls of texts but in the end it will be for nothing. So I suppose we will just agree to disagree.

Best left at that.

[TackyFailz]

SO much angst and sadness would vanish if people stopped metagaming and trying to insist a 1:1 can occur when more than 2 players are present.

You are NOT a soloer if you think others shouldn't jump in. Or I'd you think jumping up and down somehow grants you immunity to all other players except the one you want to fight.

Haha. Under the "rules" some people play by I'd be R15 right now guaranteed.

Freeps, fight the creeps.
Creeps, fight the freeps.
No matter what side you're on if you get rolled hit that release button and instantly with no penalty get back at it. Simple as that.

The map is HUGE try using it once in awhile. If you really want to catch someone alone it can be done. I know.

But with those fights comes a lot if pain and getting rolled. Suck it up. There's no penalty for death. Heh. I remember when there WAS. I doubt many of you 'soloers' could've handled it back in the day.

Well since we are talking about other peoples play, how about we talk about yours shall we?

1. You roam the map, alone. Respectable, but you seem to only roam the very far edges of the map (for the most part) conveniently where many of the quests low ranks use to achieve rank are. Now you've stated in other posts that you know that low ranked creeps have no chance to fight a freep of any rank and even of lower than standard gear. Yet you seem to only go places you KNOW there will be no one of rank to actually give you a fight when you state that a fight is ALL you want.

2. You run around calling yourself a solo yet the majority of times that you are seen (when you aren't at the corners of the map or within greenie questing zones) you are engaging a creep that is already being engaged by 1+ freeps. Soloing yourself into 1+ freeps killing 1 creep does not make you a solo, remember that.

3. Now lets say you do manage to find yourself in front of a r6+ creep. We already know from the get-go you have an advantage just because you are a freep. (It's not up for debate so don't even try) Your first instinct is to instantly checkerboard your skill bar and shing shing till it dies and then go back to the far corners of the map where you know there is a very SLIM chance of you finding anything which meanwhile gives you time to get those CDs you just blew back.


Now let's talk about this Metagaming BS you always complain about. You hate it because it guarantees a fight in which one side will be victorious, but isn't that what PvP is about one side will beat the other?

You also coupled Metagaming with removing the risk. I don't understand how you see that because there is still VERY MUCH a risk of you dying. Just because perhaps you aren't dying to a zerg but instead to one person? But but you are a soloer wouldn't you much rather die to 1 rather than many? Are you not one to complain when you get zerged?

Now going back to my first 3 points in your play, make sure to read them twice and find a creative way of telling me how much "risk" is in YOUR gameplay?

And also to your comment about being r15 if you played how I played. Not....Even....Close... you blow all your CDs and come out of a majority of your fights with nothing but the skin on your back. Now imagine trying to fight those very same creeps you barely got with the all your CDs and try fighting them with NONE. I don't see it happening.

[Thane9]

Well since we are talking about other peoples play, how about we talk about yours shall we?.

Lets.

1. You roam the map, alone. Respectable, but you seem to only roam the very far edges of the map (for the most part) conveniently where many of the quests low ranks use to achieve rank are. Now you've stated in other posts that you know that low ranked creeps have no chance to fight a freep of any rank and even of lower than standard gear. Yet you seem to only go places you KNOW there will be no one of rank to actually give you a fight when you state that a fight is ALL you want.
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First off...I don't claim that my playstyle is "respectable". Nor is that a goal of mine. Despite the garbage some people creepside want to say I'm claiming to be.

Secondly, and I know you'll insist I'm lying in which case there is absolutely no reason to ever speak to me again because anything I say will just be disregarded...but anyhow, secondly, in 5 years it is NOT my experience that there is a greater occurance of "low ranks" where I travel relative to the zergball in the center of the map. I could EASILY sit in a raid and cherry pick low ranks there too. But I don't. I move around the map and I look for creeps. Any creeps. And again, in my experience, (which is not minor) I'm not fighting low ranks any more than I would be ANYWHERE else. Nor do I purposefully look for low ranks. NOR to I continually kill low ranks when given the opportunity. I will fight them ONCE, and move on. IF they are clearly coming back to farm or engage me repeatedly, I will fight them three times before I move on. I AM definitely trying to dissuade them from killing my NPCs for their benefit. But I'm not going to endlessly farm a creep. How many people in a raid stop fighting when a low rank dies 3 times? Um...ZERO. Those zerg fests at OC, or at WTAB, or STAB, or at the door of a keep...you know who is dying, and dying repeatedly? The low ranks.

2. You run around calling yourself a solo yet the majority of times that you are seen (when you aren't at the corners of the map or within greenie questing zones) you are engaging a creep that is already being engaged by 1+ freeps. Soloing yourself into 1+ freeps killing 1 creep does not make you a solo, remember that.
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So much is wrong with this...I'll try to get all the errors.

1> The majority of the time I'm seen...that means the times I'm around other players to be seen. Well, YEAH...of course I'm likely to be engaging things they're engaging because THEY ARE THERE TO SEE ME. That's just ridiculous.

2> "greenie questing zones" This is just silly. I again, assert that there is NO greater frequency of "greenies" in the areas I travel than anywhere else. (In fact I can think of a certain VERY high ranked Defiler that loves to kill norbogs in the NW corner of TA that I encounter relatively commonly). Furthermore, the idea of "questing zones" is just silly. I move around the map. I RARELY even stop my horse except to alt-tab and start a new music file. So the idea that I'm somehow just lurking around greenie fun spots is insane.

3> "Soloing yourself into 1+ freeps killing 1 creep does not make you a solo, remember that" Actually it does. SOLO is not an arranged 1:1. SOLO is ungrouped, and unsupported, i.e. SOLO. If I run across other freeps that doesn't make me any less solo. Just as if I run across a raid of creeps it's not a 1:1.

3. Now lets say you do manage to find yourself in front of a r6+ creep. We already know from the get-go you have an advantage just because you are a freep. (It's not up for debate so don't even try) Your first instinct is to instantly checkerboard your skill bar and shing shing till it dies and then go back to the far corners of the map where you know there is a very SLIM chance of you finding anything which meanwhile gives you time to get those CDs you just blew back..

Don't suggest to know my instincts or my intentions or my playstyle. You're wrong here on all accounts. I NEVER remove myself from play for the sake of my CDs. EVER.

We can debate the pros and cons of freep/creep all you want. But whatever. I'm not here to argue when/where I have advantage and when/where I don't. That's actually not even the point. There are EQUALLY as many times a duo, or a trio, or a group, or a raid, or a full blown zerg has advantage and disadvantage. It's a completely seperate issue not related to anyones play.

Now let's talk about this Metagaming BS you always complain about. You hate it because it guarantees a fight in which one side will be victorious, but isn't that what PvP is about one side will beat the other?

You also coupled Metagaming with removing the risk. I don't understand how you see that because there is still VERY MUCH a risk of you dying. Just because perhaps you aren't dying to a zerg but instead to one person? But but you are a soloer wouldn't you much rather die to 1 rather than many? Are you not one to complain when you get zerged?
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I don't complain when I'm zerged. I do complain, and have in the past spoken about this at length, about players who purposefully group up with the intent of hunting (via stealth and track and maps) small numbers with larger numbers with the sole intent of low/zero risk play.

As for the 1:1 garbage. Yes this is metagaming. In fact it's worse...it's collusion...and the guarenteed payout with virtually no cost (or risk in a risk based analysis model) of time or effort to get the fight.

I remember years ago suggesting that the EFFORT for PvMP was in FINDING the fight...not the fight in itself. Win or Lose the "work" the "cost" and the "risk" was the time spent finding a fight. Fightclubbing removes that cost. It removes that risk. It is collusion and breaks the intent of the game.

Now going back to my first 3 points in your play, make sure to read them twice and find a creative way of telling me how much "risk" is in YOUR gameplay?
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I am alone. Only being a freep, being a champ, and the effort I've put into my stats and gear are my advantage. (and note EVERY advantage I list here I'd have in ANY other playstyle, group, raid and everything in between)

EVERY other vector in the analysis is a risk. Group size = risk (because any group larger than 1 has advantage), Maps = risk. Tracking = risk. Callouts (this is specific to me and some other few players that are targeted) = risk. These are all risks that in general a grouped player either does not have, or has mitigated by their group size.

It's not even arguable that a solo player who roams the map looking for fights has a MUCH higher cost/benefit ratio than someone who joins the raid and runs to "where the action is" in terms of gains/effort. It's silly to suggest that's not the fact.

And also to your comment about being r15 if you played how I played. Not....Even....Close... you blow all your CDs and come out of a majority of your fights with nothing but the skin on your back. Now imagine trying to fight those very same creeps you barely got with the all your CDs and try fighting them with NONE. I don't see it happening.

Once again, it's laughable that you think you know me, or know how I play. Do I use cooldowns? Sure. They're skills on my bar and I'm not going to not use them, PARTICULARLY when I don't know what is going to happen next...i.e. warg pounce or another creep just 30 seconds later.

But here's some easy math.

I can ride around for an hour and only have 2 fights. Let's say you're correct and there's ZERO failure rate and I win every fight I find. Lets also say they're juicy creeps. BAM 240 renown/hour.

Now let's assume I'm fightclubbing...and those 2 creeps are too. Now lets say you're right and I suck managing my cooldowns and I lose 75% of the time even though I'm ALSO an OP freep (funny how your two points there contradict themselves). Any given fight should be far less time than it takes to get back, so let's just say 1 fight every 3 minutes (although in reality it could easily be every 2 minutes DRASTICALLY affecting this math)...that's 20 fights, Of which I win 1/4 so i get 5 wins in an hour.

Multiply my current renown ~1.5million by 2.5 = 3.75 million renown. Look at that...R15.

NOW consider that my 1.5 mill is actually REALLY undervalued because my first 9-10 ranks I spent a GREAT deal of that time grouped with friends outside of the moors. I was often getting 20-33 renown for a SOLO kill that today would yield 100+ renown. I did the math but being conservative it worked out to a six figure difference in renown. Add that in and then multiply and things get super crazy really fast.

I play a LOT of hours. If you discount my breaks in play for WAR, RIFT, SWTOR and trying those new games with my friends I'd say I've got considerably more time logged in that zone than Budhorn. In fact I'd argue my time in the moors : days LotRO played is in excess of his ratio. Trust me, there's NOTHING optimal about being solo looking for fights. Except becoming intimately familiar with every rock, tree and blade of grass out there.

--

So believe what you want...it's clear you have your mind made up about me, my motives, and how I play. I honestly am sick of explaining myself. I know how I play and it's actually really sad that people have such misguided perceptions of that. But I doubt I'll change your mind no matter how big this wall of text is.

[TackyFailz]

I will fight them ONCE, and move on. IF they are clearly coming back to farm or engage me repeatedly, I will fight them three times before I move on. I AM definitely trying to dissuade them from killing my NPCs for their benefit. But I'm not going to endlessly farm a creep.

So you will farm a low ranked creep just as long as it doesn't become noticeable on a leaderboards?

Don't suggest to know my instincts or my intentions or my playstyle. You're wrong here on all accounts. I NEVER remove myself from play for the sake of my CDs. EVER.

Ah but see you do that to everyone else with just about every post you make. You tell everyone else they are Metagaming and that their playstyle is the "wrong" playstyle but in the end they are playing the way in which they enjoy and that the mechanic of the game allows. Just like how your "non-metagaming" is the playstyle in which you enjoy.

I don't complain when I'm zerged. I do complain, and have in the past spoken about this at length, about players who purposefully group up with the intent of hunting (via stealth and track and maps) small numbers with larger numbers with the sole intent of low/zero risk play.

Hypocrite, there it is my proof of the above stated. Just because a multitude of creeps came your way you MUST have been called out. There you go, thinking you know what their intentions were but in fact they are playing EXACTLY how you want them to play. Kill the opposing side.

EVERY other vector in the analysis is a risk. Group size = risk (because any group larger than 1 has advantage), Maps = risk. Tracking = risk. Callouts (this is specific to me and some other few players that are targeted) = risk. These are all risks that in general a grouped player either does not have, or has mitigated by their group size.

It's not even arguable that a solo player who roams the map looking for fights has a MUCH higher cost/benefit ratio than someone who joins the raid and runs to "where the action is" in terms of gains/effort. It's silly to suggest that's not the fact.

Though I agree in some of what you state here you are also very wrong in other areas.

The small groups/raids get called out WAY more than any solo does though that of course yes there are many solo call outs that do go on during any given day on BOTH sides.

And as far as solo/grouping benefits vs costs issue. Yes soloing has more of a cost to it but on any given day unless there are only 2 people playing the opposing side and avoiding the grouped players grouping will ALWAYS give more benefit.

24 man raid kills one creep 10-20 reknown/infamy now factor in the speed in which they are killing and the multitudes that they are able to kill will with no doubt hold more benefit than that maybe 240 reknown/infamy that you earned in that 1h period.

Now let's assume I'm fightclubbing...and those 2 creeps are too. Now lets say you're right and I suck managing my cooldowns and I lose 75% of the time even though I'm ALSO an OP freep (funny how your two points there contradict themselves). Any given fight should be far less time than it takes to get back, so let's just say 1 fight every 3 minutes (although in reality it could easily be every 2 minutes DRASTICALLY affecting this math)...that's 20 fights, Of which I win 1/4 so i get 5 wins in an hour.

Multiply my current renown ~1.5million by 2.5 = 3.75 million renown. Look at that...R15.



So believe what you want...it's clear you have your mind made up about me, my motives, and how I play. I honestly am sick of explaining myself. I know how I play and it's actually really sad that people have such misguided perceptions of that. But I doubt I'll change your mind no matter how big this wall of text is.

Now as far as this is concerned you are still yet again wrong. Fight clubs happen when there is a shortage of one or the other side. Therefore there may be 2-3 on one side of the fight club and then 8 on the other(rough numbers). You have to factor in how many times one person will fight the other. You also have to factor in that the time it takes for the loser(s) to come back usually will take near as long as the fight they had just lost depending on location. Also with that the fightclubs that you hate so dearly truly only last 1 to 3 hours if its slow day. Usually when people start announcing that a fightclub is in progress more and more do show up and it eventually turns into a grouped thing and then back to good'ol zergVzerg.




But anywho, about either of us changing the others mind about ANYTHING, you are correct it will never happen. You and I are both stubborn and firm placed on where we stand and we will not change that. We can pick and prod at every little word we say in these walls of texts but in the end it will be for nothing. So I suppose we will just agree to disagree.

[Vongs666]

Is it a bad 1v1 when a Rank 9 Hunter runs you threw HH. Get 14 Hobbits on me including the Mayor, I still fight him, he still runs. When I clear the NPC's he chases, i turn to fight him again he runs back in only to meet a warg in HH.

Thanks Prispine your timely pounce was epic on that fail hunter.

I dont 1v1 never have, see a creep kill it or try to it open PVP

Call it what ya want I don't really care, only thing out it the moors that matters is killing your opponent period. Use what there is to use, be it NPC's, trees, walls what ever there is. I wasn't running from you but your flies. I cant heal myself over and over, cant drain all your power in a matter of a few seconds, and then recast said flies. So I use what is there to help me win end of story.

[Reichpapers]

What about this thread is not fail? Especially when someone has more than 5 posts in said thread. There's nothing wrong with being head strong...just sit back take a break and think about the subject matter. It may just seem silly in the end.

[Gillianrial]

And seeing as how you are a fellow soloer

No...just no.

[TheBigMenace]