1 handed + shield

[Aztec_Soul]

How would wearing a 1-hander help you with power managmenet for both Vocal and melee-based healing skills?

And Captains can easily do damage while healing at the same time Aztec. Seems an awful waste to me to just concentrate on doing one or the other when a Captain can easily do both.

2H or 1H+shield for a HoH build would be down to the player's preference. I just mean that I'd prefer the 1H+shield setup for said role. Plus, I only mention power management because the 1H eats up more power when I fire off the melee-based heals. Therefore, having full song-brother benefits can help compensate for the problem. In theory, I'd be responsible for primarily healing the party, so it falls to me to make sure I can survive to do that job. In that case, having a shield is prefered by me for defensive purposes. Given that, I would still use skills on the spot to try to branch out into our tank and damage roles as the situation calls for. That is usually the case, and I again point to the shield's defensive benefits. However, I know my limitations when I specialize in one traitline over another, so I can't pretend to do everything with the same level of effectiveness, else we wouldn't have need for specialized roles through trait setups in the first place.

[Jeremi]

2H or 1H+shield for a HoH build would be down to the player's preference. I just mean that I'd prefer the 1H+shield setup for said role. Plus, I only mention power management because the 1H eats up more power when I fire off the melee-based heals. Therefore, having full song-brother benefits can help compensate for the problem. In theory, I'd be responsible for primarily healing the party, so it falls to me to make sure I can survive to do that job. In that case, having a shield is prefered by me for defensive purposes. Given that, I would still use skills on the spot to try to branch out into our tank and damage roles as the situation calls for. That is usually the case, and I again point to the shield's defensive benefits. However, I know my limitations when I specialize in one traitline over another, so I can't pretend to do everything with the same level of effectiveness, else we wouldn't have need for specialized roles through trait setups in the first place.

I agree with you that it's the "player's preference" of course. Nothing wrong with one person prefering a 2-hander where as another may prefer a 1-hander. I was just trying to understand some of the reasons you prefered a 1-hand/shield approach when going Hands of Healing. Especially since you emphasized power-management as your primary concern, and now you are saying a 1-hander eats up more power. So I was a little confused on that.

Also if you're going to be running in Song Brother most of the time as you seem to suggest I don't see how "power management" would ever be a problem for you. You basically would have endless power no matter what you used.

Far as the "defensive benefits" of using a shield, I can understand why you might would like that. Though as a healer I woudn't think you'd be taking that many direct hits to where a shield would be nessassary, but I'm sure it could come in handy in some situations.

Tier2 Fangorn Edge for example comes to mind, since it's so easy for the healer to attract attention on that one. So some extra block would admitably be nice on something like that. But generally, as a healer - it's mostly the AoE and Tactical attacks we have to worry about - and I wasn't aware those types of attacks were "blockable".

[Jeremi]

You're still not addressing the Inspire change, which broke a very high healing output skill rotation. That was a nerf to HoH.



Either you need to learn to not comment, or you finish what you start - and since you challenged the idea that Song Brother's broken state isn't a nerf to HoH...

FINISH YOUR ARGUMENT OR YOUR OBJECTION IS IRRELEVANT

....Almagnus, this is a forum where people come together to agree and disagree with one another. All I did was say I "disagreed" with you. There is no reason to start typing font that is 100x large simply because I disagreed with something you said lol

And I don't always have to follow a disagreement with a long repetitive debate as to why I disagree. Nor is that nessessary to justify a comment, especially considering my "comment' was in response to a comment YOU directed at me. And I have debated Song Brother with you over and over on this forum numerous times. There is absolutely no good reason to do it again, because you aren't going to change my mind on it, and I'm obviously not going to change your's. But since you want to do it again so badly, I guess I will.

The introduction of Song Brother did not nerf Hands of Healing in any way. We are still at liberty to use Shield Brother. The only change Song Brother did for Hands of Healing was give us access to a very powerful and useful power tool. Why You think that is a "nerf" I'll never understand. It did nothing but help us - and we can now quickly recover power on ourselves or anyone else in the group at will.

Yes, while using Song Brother our healing does take a significant hit - but that is as it should be, else we could simply stay in Song Brother all of the time and would be grossly over-powered healers who could literally ignore having to worry about our power all together while healing at peak efficiency . That would be stupid in my opinion, and I like it the way it is now - where you use it strategically to recover power when needed while sacrificing some of your healing output to do it.

In short: It's a very useful skill, and a fine addition to our repertoire - and the inclusion of it didn't nerf me in any way. It did nothing but strengthen this class.

[DuneBug]

2H or 1H+shield for a HoH build would be down to the player's preference. I just mean that I'd prefer the 1H+shield setup for said role. Plus, I only mention power management because the 1H eats up more power when I fire off the melee-based heals. Therefore, having full song-brother benefits can help compensate for the problem. In theory, I'd be responsible for primarily healing the party, so it falls to me to make sure I can survive to do that job. In that case, having a shield is prefered by me for defensive purposes. Given that, I would still use skills on the spot to try to branch out into our tank and damage roles as the situation calls for. That is usually the case, and I again point to the shield's defensive benefits. However, I know my limitations when I specialize in one traitline over another, so I can't pretend to do everything with the same level of effectiveness, else we wouldn't have need for specialized roles through trait setups in the first place.

The 1h only uses more power because you're firing off more skills than with a 2h... In general that's kind of a good thing.

The optimal rotation in a 13s period (duration of battle shout ) is presumably:

Battle shout, sure strike, db/pa, inspire, blade of elendil
And then... every 20-30s do cutting attack/grave wound. Or valiant strike when you're HoH. And throw in war-cry, to arms, strength of will, rally cry, and WoC in there somewhere.

Turns out... a lot of the power problems in HoH are from not having 3red for the -melee skills power cost. 3/3 of b/r turns out to be amazing for power consumption. Also... the -melee skills power cost legacy is priceless imo.

Also nice to have you back on crick... If you feel like doing some light raiding to get gear unlocked you'll have to let me know.

[Jeremi]

The 1h only uses more power because you're firing off more skills than with a 2h... In general that's kind of a good thing.

.

Why is using more power to do less damage a good thing?

[Almagnus1]

The introduction of Song Brother did not nerf Hands of Healing in any way. We are still at liberty to use Shield Brother. The only change Song Brother did for Hands of Healing was give us access to a very powerful and useful power tool. Why You think that is a "nerf" I'll never understand. It did nothing but help us - and we can now quickly recover power on ourselves or anyone else in the group at will.

Yes, while using Song Brother our healing does take a significant hit - but that is as it should be, else we could simply stay in Song Brother all of the time and would be grossly over-powered healers who could literally ignore having to worry about our power all together while healing at peak efficiency . That would be stupid in my opinion, and I like it the way it is now - where you use it strategically to recover power when needed while sacrificing some of your healing output to do it.

In short: It's a very useful skill, and a fine addition to our repertoire - and the inclusion of it didn't nerf me in any way. It did nothing but strengthen this class.

When running a HoH capstone build, how often do you have a self-Song Brother on you?

What about self-Shield Bro when you're in LoM?

Self-Blade Bro in LtC?

[DuneBug]

i don't know how you can argue song brother is a nerf when none of the skills existed before.
a nerf is a downgrade in effectiveness from previous setup....

Shield brother is far better, blade brother is far better... Both those can be used in HoH.

I mean this has all been hashed out in the 6 HoH/Song brother threads there have been. I'll just defer to them.

[Jeremi]

When running a HoH capstone build, how often do you have a self-Song Brother on you?

What about self-Shield Bro when you're in LoM?

Self-Blade Bro in LtC?

Almagnus, you should know by now I don't play LoM or LtC. So of course I never have a "self-Shield Brother" or a "self-Blade Brother".

How often I have a "self-Song Brother" depends on what I'm doing. I can't quanitfy it, as it's too relative. I use it when I need it. That's the simple answer.

But just because I don't use Song Brother as frequently as other LtC or LoM Captains may use Blade-Brother or Shield-Brother doens't mean Song Brother was a "nerf" to HoH Captains. Because it wasn't. All it did was make the class better, not worse - therefore it can't accurately be described as a "nerf". It strengthened the class by giving us a powerful new ability that rapidly restores power and can be incredibly useful. So in reality it was a "buff and deffinitely not a "nerf".

If you are trying to argue it's not used as often as other Brother Skills that's fine, and that's a point I wouldn't go out of my way to disagree with. But describing the addition of Song Brother as a "nerf" to HoH Captains just isn't true in my opinion.

And now we have had the exact same discussion one million in one times. I may start using copy and paste soon to save myself some typing

[Almagnus1]

i don't know how you can argue song brother is a nerf when none of the skills existed before.
a nerf is a downgrade in effectiveness from previous setup....

Shield brother is far better, blade brother is far better... Both those can be used in HoH.

I mean this has all been hashed out in the 6 HoH/Song brother threads there have been. I'll just defer to them.

This is probably best explained by first showing an image:


Notice what I boxed for each of the capstones?

Ideally, each of the brother skills, as listed on the capstone, should be the no-brainer choice for that line - at least, if everything was actually working as intended (hint: it's not).

The assessment of the Brother skills as RoR nears?
Self-Shield Brother dramatically improves LoM captain tank survivability, so that was a huge buff to that trait line. A LoM captain will run Shield Brother all the time, and if they don't, they risk going **SQUISH**.

LtC got a pretty good DPS buff from the self-Blade Brother. A LtC captain will run blade brother the vast majority of the time, with the option to sacrifice DPS for group survivability (which fits with how the class works).

Then there's HoH - I would wager that most captains you speak to would say that Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother, and because of that, the majority of HoH captains are not getting a self Brother. I mean if we're all basically saying:

How often I have a "self-Song Brother" depends on what I'm doing. I can't quanitfy it, as it's too relative. I use it when I need it. That's the simple answer.

Instead of 100% (or at least 90% of the time) like the captains would say about LoM/Shield Brother and LtC/Blade Brother, then something is wrong with Song Brother.

Thus, if LoM and LtC got buffs from the self brother skills, and HoH effectively didn't (as observed by play, because Shield Brother is a better healing XBro than Song Brother) - in effect, HoH stagnated, while LtC and LoM were buffed. So two went up, while one stayed the same. Or put a different way, one got nerfed and the others didn't.

Almagnus, you should know by now I don't play LoM or LtC. So of course I never have a "self-Shield Brother" or a "self-Blade Brother".

Therein lies the problem - because you have trait-line tunnel vision, this issue is not as obvious to you as it is to captains that switch between HoH, LtC, and LoM fairly frequently.

Edit:
And Turbine needs to do a text trim on the LoM capstone... talk about redundancy XD

[DuneBug]

This is probably best explained by first showing an image:

No.. that was a silly idea. everyone already knows what the capstones do to FB.

Ideally, each of the brother skills, as listed on the capstone, should be the no-brainer choice for that line - at least, if everything was actually working as intended (hint: it's not).

Ideally according to who? According to you, basically. Not really according to Turbine, or myself. There have been no votes universe-wide of captains on this. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not fact.

The other two traitlines were improved by the changes to fellowship brother, but so was HoH.

I can restore my power and reduce my power costs with song brother. That's a life-saving ability. At the same time, I can go shield brother and get drastically improved healing exactly where I want it. If anything I'd argue song brother is a boost to HoH, because you get basically the full benefit of two of the fellowship brother skills. Shield brother on the tank, or power restore on yourself. And while power restore is not a direct healing buff, it sure does look good when you're out of power.

LtC technically works the same way, but the benefits of having MoW traited vs not aren't nearly as significant as the bonuses you get from being in HoH, or the bonus you get from LoM. Can I argue that LtC was nerfed, then?

[Jeremi]

This is probably best explained by first showing an image:


Notice what I boxed for each of the capstones?

Ideally, each of the brother skills, as listed on the capstone, should be the no-brainer choice for that line - at least, if everything was actually working as intended (hint: it's not).

The assessment of the Brother skills as RoR nears?
Self-Shield Brother dramatically improves LoM captain tank survivability, so that was a huge buff to that trait line. A LoM captain will run Shield Brother all the time, and if they don't, they risk going **SQUISH**.

LtC got a pretty good DPS buff from the self-Blade Brother. A LtC captain will run blade brother the vast majority of the time, with the option to sacrifice DPS for group survivability (which fits with how the class works).

Then there's HoH - I would wager that most captains you speak to would say that Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother, and because of that, the majority of HoH captains are not getting a self Brother. I mean if we're all basically saying:



Instead of 100% (or at least 90% of the time) like the captains would say about LoM/Shield Brother and LtC/Blade Brother, then something is wrong with Song Brother.

Thus, if LoM and LtC got buffs from the self brother skills, and HoH effectively didn't (as observed by play, because Shield Brother is a better healing XBro than Song Brother) - in effect, HoH stagnated, while LtC and LoM were buffed. So two went up, while one stayed the same. Or put a different way, one got nerfed and the others didn't.

lol... why did I let myself get suckered into this. Almangus, we are starting to go in circles again - and you are starting to print pictures instead of charts now trying to prove things that were never in question.

I already said LoM and LtC Captains use Shield-Brother and Blade-Brother more often than HoH Captains use Song Brother. I've ALREADY recognized that. So why you are printing pictures and going off on some long post trying to prove a point that I never disagreed with? It's confusing to say the least. And considering we've had this discussion a zillion times already, you should deffinitely know by now that I think Shield Brother is the better healing tool. I've only said that on these forums an infinity amount of times.

And as I said in the PREVIOUS post, just because LtC and LoM Captains use Shield-Brother and Blade-Brother skills more often than HoH Captains use Song Brother doesn't mean Song Brother was a "nerf". Because it WASN'T, and your post does nothing to prove that it was. The addition of Song Brother did NOTHING to harm HoH Captains. That's just the simple fact. Therefore it can't accuately be described as a "nerf". It did nothing but good things for this class, giving us a powerful new power tool that we can use to rapidly restore our power when the situation calls.

Therein lies the problem - because you have trait-line tunnel vision, this issue is not as obvious to you as it is to captains that switch between HoH, LtC, and LoM fairly frequently.

Edit:
And Turbine needs to do a text trim on the LoM capstone... talk about redundancy XD

/sigh We've gone over this before as well. Again - I play HoH Captain because that is the trait-line I enjoy and want to play. That's called getting my money's worth Almagnus, not "trait-line tunnel vision". If you like playing all 3 trait lines good for you - but I don't.

And to be honest just the fact I play HoH exclusively actually puts me in a BETTER position not worse in regards to being able to tell what has "nerfed" this class and what hasn't. And your suggestion that because I don't play other trait-lines that somehow puts me in a lesser position to be able to judge rather or not certain skills "nerfed" the actual class I always DO play is pretty silly, and makes no sense to me.

Song Brother was not a "nerf" to HoH Almangus, that's just the bottom line here - and nothing you have said even remotely suggests that it was. Your whole argument is basically some comparative analysis that because LoM or LtC Captains use Shield-Brother and Blade-Brother more often than HoH Captains use Song Brother that makes it a "nerf", and that makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Almagnus1]

No.. that was a silly idea. everyone already knows what the capstones do to FB.

Ideally according to who? According to you, basically. Not really according to Turbine, or myself. There have been no votes universe-wide of captains on this. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not fact.

The other two traitlines were improved by the changes to fellowship brother, but so was HoH.

I can restore my power and reduce my power costs with song brother. That's a life-saving ability. At the same time, I can go shield brother and get drastically improved healing exactly where I want it. If anything I'd argue song brother is a boost to HoH, because you get basically the full benefit of two of the fellowship brother skills. Shield brother on the tank, or power restore on yourself. And while power restore is not a direct healing buff, it sure does look good when you're out of power.

LtC technically works the same way, but the benefits of having MoW traited vs not aren't nearly as significant as the bonuses you get from being in HoH, or the bonus you get from LoM. Can I argue that LtC was nerfed, then?

Explain why a HoH capstone build not having a self-Brother most of the time, when the other two capstone builds DO, is working as intended.

[Jeremi]

Explain why a HoH capstone build not having a self-Brother most of the time, when the other two capstone builds DO, is working as intended.

Almagnus, your belief rather or not "it's working as intended" is different from calling something a "nerf". That's the difference you aren't understanding here.

We're not devs, so we can't tell you for certain rather or not Song Brother has developed as they intended. But what we can tell you with certainty is that it was NOT a nerf to our class.

All it did was give us a powerful new tool to restore our power when we need it - and there is nothing "harmful" about that, and did not "nerf" us in any way what-so-ever.

[Almagnus1]

We're not devs, so we can't tell you for certain rather or not Song Brother has developed as they intended. But what we can tell you with certainty is that it was NOT a nerf to our class.

By the same logic that the captain is a support class because it's what's listed on the character creation screen, Song Brother should be the best healing Brother skill because it's explicitly named on the capstone for a traitline centered on healing - so all captains running HoH should have a self Song Brother up the vast majority of the time.

Yet, going by gameplay, Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother.

Thus, Song Brother is not working as intended, because the gameplay is not matching the design.

While we are not devs, all players in an MMO are testers - because an MMO is, by design, perpetually in Beta testing. We all have the ability to spot if something is not working as intended, and /bug it. Whether or not you choose to use that ability is another matter entirely.

[Aztec_Soul]

The 1h only uses more power because you're firing off more skills than with a 2h... In general that's kind of a good thing.

The optimal rotation in a 13s period (duration of battle shout ) is presumably:

Battle shout, sure strike, db/pa, inspire, blade of elendil
And then... every 20-30s do cutting attack/grave wound. Or valiant strike when you're HoH. And throw in war-cry, to arms, strength of will, rally cry, and WoC in there somewhere.

Turns out... a lot of the power problems in HoH are from not having 3red for the -melee skills power cost. 3/3 of b/r turns out to be amazing for power consumption. Also... the -melee skills power cost legacy is priceless imo.

Also nice to have you back on crick... If you feel like doing some light raiding to get gear unlocked you'll have to let me know.

Thanks Dune, I'll keep that in mind. I'll still be out of the country for a few more weeks, so when I get back to play, I'll have some catching up to do. I need a new rig to do raids, so pending current career path options abroad, I'll have to stick to smaller group content and covering the Great River QP on my laptop.

The kinship I'm in is very casual-friendly, and I've used a LoM build for skirm raids. It feels so great to be able to maximize the buffs on everyone, plus put full shield-brother benefits on our tank and myself. (+20%inc healing, +300crit def, -15%inc dmg for 30sec on a 1min CD).

Since LoM is my main build, my 1H for HoH needs more fleshing out, but I definitely have the -power cost legacies there for power management. Interesting to hear about integrating the 3red trait bonus in a HoH build also. I'll have to give it a try when I get back to playing around with trait setups again.

[DelgonTheWise]

Explain why a HoH capstone build not having a self-Brother most of the time, when the other two capstone builds DO, is working as intended.

I'd agree that the other 2 capstones have obvious synergy with their self-reflected brother type. Song Brother might be used by any captain as power restoration. Seems to me like the design intent was that Song Brother is the "healing" brother skill, rather than the power restore skill. But as it is inferior to the Shield Brother for the single target healing that dominates most group runs (tank SHOULD be taking most damage), it doesn't work out that way. And even for group healing, the fact that Song Brother has no HOT counterbalances the To Arm healing buff at least somewhat...

[Jeremi]

By the same logic that the captain is a support class because it's what's listed on the character creation screen, Song Brother should be the best healing Brother skill because it's explicitly named on the capstone for a traitline centered on healing - so all captains running HoH should have a self Song Brother up the vast majority of the time.

Yet, going by gameplay, Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother.

Thus, Song Brother is not working as intended, because the gameplay is not matching the design.

That's your theory Almagnus about how things should be, and you are entitled to that - but that doesn't mean Song Brother was a "nerf".

Song Brother wasn't designed to emphasize healing. That's just now how the Devs designed it. They designed Song Brother to be a Power Tool - because that's what it's good at, restoring and salvaging power. And it can be incredibly useful to HoH Captains because I use it often to restore my power when I need to. And I personally would never describe a skill that is extremely useful to me as a failure in game design and certainly not as a "nerf".

[Almagnus1]

Song Brother wasn't designed to emphasize healing. That's just now how the Devs designed it. They designed Song Brother to be a Power Tool - because that's what it's good at, restoring and salvaging power. And it can be incredibly useful to HoH Captains because I use it often to restore my power when I need to. And I personally would never describe a skill that is extremely useful to me as a failure in game design.

Why is Song Brother: To Arms +25% Outgoing Healing?

Why does Song Brother have -5% healing threat reduction?

Why is Song Brother: Strength of Will -10% Healing Power Costs?

Why would a power restoration tool need the above healing related stuff?

Song Brother is a failure as a healing tool - which is what the HoH capstone explicitly designates it as.

[Jeremi]

Why is Song Brother: To Arms +25% outgoing healing?

Why does Song Brother have a healing threat reduction to it?

Why is Song Brother: Strength of Will -Healing Power Costs?

Why would a power restoration tool need the following healing related attributes?

Song Brother is a failure as a healing tool - which is what the HoH capstone explicitly designates it as.

It's not a "healing tool" Almagnus. It's a "power tool". That's the simple answer to your question. And as a "power-tool" it's deffinitely NOT a failure.

The 25% extra healing on To Arms is useful because you can use it while you are regaining power with Inspire to help make up for the healing losses you incurr. That's what I use it for anyway.

Your problem is you are letting theory replace reality. It's simply NOT designed as a dominant healing-tool. It's there to recover power. That's what it's good at, and in that it without doubt succeeds and is NOT a failure. And as a HoH captain you have the added benefit of being able to use it on yourself - and that's a nice little advantage we have, and is certainly not a "nerf".

[jeanperson]

I always used one-hand weapon because 2h weapons are too slow and executing melee skills that are most useful at buffing or healing (inspire, BoE, VS, DS, SS, kick).
the only time I use 2H is for Dpsing or tanking( since the change brought to capstone).

Waiting for the strike to execute with 2h, when you have to cry or cast a heal, in a dire situation, always delay that later one or cancel that previous.

Also Stats of Shield are much better for healing than LI 2hander stats. since those are shared with minstrel; and since to heal it's more important to boost your stats for outgoing heal then just getting a bigger DPS weapon.

[jeanperson]

Why is Song Brother: To Arms +25% Outgoing Healing?

Why does Song Brother have -5% healing threat reduction?

Why is Song Brother: Strength of Will -10% Healing Power Costs?

Why would a power restoration tool need the above healing related stuff?

Song Brother is a failure as a healing tool - which is what the HoH capstone explicitly designates it as.

Because when you equip the capstone legendary trait of HoH you get the full benefit to yourself of your song brother skills and in raid you place Song-bro on a healer(specially mini who need power) and both get the full benefits of all those skills: inspire, SoW, Song-bro passive buff, to Arm.

in that way you'll never need power ever.

what is sad is that you don't get the benefit of song-bro on yourself whatever x-bro skill you are using.

of course using Shield-bro SoW+ Legacy increase the healing on your tank but you lost power efficiency that you will have to compensate with fate... I stack only might and my power is assured by inspire and Song-bro buff.

I still switch sometime to shield bro when I'm full power and know that big incoming aoe damage are coming, to take advantage of To Arm(shield bro) along with the buff SoW incoming healing (fellwoship bro) still whenever I go below 50% power I just cast song bro on whatever fellow who got power starvation and bring his and mine back up that way.

[jeanperson]

Explain why a HoH capstone build not having a self-Brother most of the time, when the other two capstone builds DO, is working as intended.

Most cappy I see HoH without song-bro always got power starving, and if not they stack fate and sacrifice might or vitality for that.
HoH with song-bro can focus on getting might and tactical mastery stat and crit without taking into account the ICPR or fate stats so that's an advantage when you are meant to heal, to heal more with each skill and never get OOP.

[Lohi]

Yet, going by gameplay, Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother.

Have people measured it? Song brother does give you more healing output and lots of power savings (my captain is very often short of power, something you don't want on a healer). I suspect the difference is really who and how many you are healing. If you heal only the tank then shield brother looks best overall; but if you're healing an entire fellowship who are taking damage then maybe song brother helps out more?

It would be nice though if they modified it somewhat. You put any brother skill on someone and then you get the capstone bonus on yourself. Ie, shield-brother on tank but you get the effects of song-brother if you're HoH.

[Almagnus1]

If Turbine modeled all of the Inspires after Blade Brother's, then Song Brother would be where it should be (following what the HoH capstone says). Ironically, this was even pointed out as a "devs, what the frak?" moment during the RoI Beta.

It would be nice though if they modified it somewhat. You put any brother skill on someone and then you get the capstone bonus on yourself. Ie, shield-brother on tank but you get the effects of song-brother if you're HoH.

That would make Blade Brother the dominant XBro then....

LoM? Blade Bro a DPSer, you get Self-Shield Bro AND Blade Bro FB stuff....

HoH? Blade Bro a DPSer, you get Self-Song Bro AND Blade Bro FB stuff....

LtC? Your DPS remains high, even if you Shield Bro the group to help w/ AoE damage, or pick up Song Bro...

[Vociferus]

I think what throws the other ones out of whack is the legacy on Strength of Will healing. That legacy should affect all of them, or none of them.