Did Sauron really torture Gollum in person?

[Drachos]

So I found an article in the Wikipedia( though I read it somewhere else earlier)

"Gollum (who was tortured by Sauron in person) tells Frodo that Sauron has, at least, a "Black Hand" with four fingers.[53] The missing finger was cut off when Isildur took the Ring, and the finger was still missing when Sauron reappeared centuries later"

So, how can it be possible? If so, why did he build the Eye?

[Beleg-Of-Doriath]

So, how can it be possible? If so, why did he build the Eye?

That's just in the films. The Eye of Sauron is generally considered to be metaphorical or is simply an 'image in the mind' one gets when in contact with him in some way, though there is a case to be made for it having some relation to his roving gaze via his Palantir.

[oldbadgerbrock]

If so, why did he build the Eye?

As B-o-D states, the so-called "Eye of Sauron", or "Lidless Eye" as it is sometimes called, is a psychic projection rather than a physical object. I believe Peter Jackson used the giant electric eye in his films to simplify the story-telling and, perhaps, to make Sauron's physical presence a bit more dramatic.

After Gollum was captured in Mordor, where he had been drawn while searching for the Ring, he was taken to Barad-dûr where he was "questioned and tormented". ('Hunt for the Ring', Unfinished Tales.) Whether Sauron actually lashed him with a whip or turned the crank on a rack is unknown, but seems highly unlikely. Doubtless Sauron interrogated Gollum personally, and doubtless Gollum saw Sauron's physical form as he describes Sauron's Black Hand with four fingers to Frodo and Sam.

[Drachos]

But what interests me, did Sauron take physical form?

[ScionofAngmar]

As B-o-D states, the so-called "Eye of Sauron", or "Lidless Eye" as it is sometimes called, is a psychic projection rather than a physical object. I believe Peter Jackson used the giant electric eye in his films to simplify the story-telling and, perhaps, to make Sauron's physical presence a bit more dramatic.

In one of the commentary tracks on the Return of the King, Peter Jackson talks about how they had originally planned to include Sauron in the battle at the Black Gate. He was to appear first as a beautiful figure on the battlefield and then assume the form he takes in the Prologue and duel with Aragorn. The scene was filmed with this idea in mind, but Jackson changed it in post-production, with Aragorn simply fighting a big troll. This explains why Aragorn gets that weird look on his face when confronting the enemy host -- he was originally seeing the beautiful form of Sauron. It would have also lent Aragorn's battle a bit more gravitas, albeit at the expense of some major lore-breaking.

I can hear the screams of the lore-monkeys from here (my voice is among them), and I'm glad he decided not to include Sauron in the final scene. But all of this does suggest that Jackson knew Sauron was not the lidless eye at the top of the tower and chose, as you rightly note, to use that image for dramatic effect.

[Radhruin_EU]

But what interests me, did Sauron take physical form?

Well yes, he did. It took him a thousand years or so to recover from being 'killed' in the War of the Last Alliance but after that, he was strong enough to take shape again. Tolkien never said exactly what he looked like by then (he'd once been able to take any shape he liked, but had lost that ability in the Downfall of Numenor), so all we know was that he was 'very terrible' to look upon, and that one of his hands (the Black Hand, the one on which he'd worn the Ring) burned like fire. (That was why the Ring was so hot when Isildur took it). Plus there's the Eye, of course, but we don't know if that was real in some way (like maybe he'd got an 'evil eye' to match the Black Hand) or if it was just a manifestation of his power, or a bit of both. I tend to think it was the latter because it first appeared after Sauron's fair form had been smashed in the Downfall - after that he was stuck looking hideous.

One thing's for sure, he wasn't a big burning eyeball stuck on top of the Dark Tower like a searchlight

[oldbadgerbrock]

In one of the commentary tracks on the Return of the King, Peter Jackson talks about how they had originally planned to include Sauron in the battle at the Black Gate...

Yes, I own and have watched the extended editions and listened to all of the commentary and am familiar with the original plan to have Aragorn fight Sauron in his Annatar the Lord of Gifts form at the Morannon, despite Tolkien having written that after the Fall of Númenor Sauron could never again take fair form. Jackson is familiar with what Tolkien wrote, and Phillipa Boyens, one of Jackson's co-writers, even more so. Jackson's departures from Tolkien's novel were deliberate.

But what interests me, did Sauron take physical form?

Yes, in The Lord of the Rings Gollum describing Sauron's hand is evidence that he had seen Sauron in physical form. Denethor, who had seen Sauron in the palantír, tells Pippin that Sauron will not come "save only to triumph over me when all is won." He couldn't very well do that as a giant electric Eye, could he?

Tolkien wrote of Sauron rebuilding his physical form:

After the battle with Gilgalad and Elendil, Sauron took a long while to re-build, longer than he had done after the downfall of Númenor[...]. The impossibility of re-building after the destruction of the Ring, is sufficiently clear 'mythlogically' in the present book.

Carpenter, Humphrey (editor). '200'. The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.

And briefly described it while writing hypothetically if Frodo had not lost the Ring to Gollum at Orodruin:

Sauron would not have feared the Ring! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to helmself. In his actual presence none but very few and equal stature could have hoped to withold it from him...in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and desctructible form their power must be greater when actually physically present. Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic.

Carpenter, Humphrey (editor). '246'. The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.

[Drachos]

Thanks guys! But dafuq then did he hide in the Battle of the Morannon? XD

And one question(may be a bit dumb), Did Sauron ever felt ashamed or pityful? Because he wasn't bad before Melkor corrupted him, and as I heard he was intelligent.

[Thendrail]

Well, he probably was ashamed in the first age, when he lost against Huan at Tol Sirion, and maybe after the war of wrath, when he had to surrender to Eonwe. But i couldn't think of any other events in the history of middle-earth, where Sauron could have felt ashamed.
And besides, he didn't even fight at the battle of Morannon. There was a seven years lasting siege against Bard-Dûr, and when Saurons army almost lost, he came out himself, and fought against Elendil and Gil-Galad.

[Jewl_of_the_lake]

But what interests me, did Sauron take physical form?

He did when he invaded Mirkwood; it was the reason the White Council booted him from Dol Guldur at the end of The Hobbit.

[Adanamir]

And a quick note, remember how Sauron tortured Pippin with his sheer will through the Palantir - he may have done easily the same to Gollum, without even touching him.

[newwwwb]

in a way thats entirely typical of evil in tolkien, sauron's invocation of the lidless eye is deliciously ironic. as a symbol, it suggests that sauron is all-seeing, but in the end, he is blind to the one thing that really matters; frodo's trek to mount doom. its very similar to morgoth's crown. he wears it to show that he is master of arda, yet it is a burden on him. it is the master of him.

[KonstantinPalailogos]

And one question(may be a bit dumb), Did Sauron ever felt ashamed or pityful? Because he wasn't bad before Melkor corrupted him, and as I heard he was intelligent.

Nah, that's an interesting question. I just finished the Silmarillion again, and Tolkien implies that Sauron attempted to repent (albeit out of fear of the Valar). It was also to my understanding that Sauron's ends weren't originally intended to be evil, but he got too caught up in the means to his goals and lost sight of his original intentions.

[Wolfhelm]

I always imagined Sauron being present at Gollum's interrogation, but not physically being involved in the torture, he'd have plenty of willing helpers to take care of that for him.
Certainly Sauron would have done most of the questioning, and that alone would have probably been far more terrifying than any physical torture. It is pretty clear however that physical violence did take place, as this quote from when the Hobbits ask Gollum whether he has been to Modor before shows "Leave me alone, gollum! You hurt me. O my poor hands, gollum! I, we, I don't want to come back."
Whether he's talking about the pulling of nails or the breaking of fingers or something else altogether I don't know, but it's pretty clear he suffered both physical and emotional pain at the hands of Sauron or at least in his presence.

[Drachos]

How did the Istari banish Sauron from Dol Guldur in The Hobbit, and is that going to be included in the movies?

[Radhruin_EU]

How did the Istari banish Sauron from Dol Guldur in The Hobbit, and is that going to be included in the movies?

They didn't, he only pretended to flee from them. Having seen that they'd finally realised who he was, there was no point in maintaining the pretence so he high-tailed it back to Mordor, declared himself openly, and set about getting Barad-dûr rebuilt.

It'll be somewhat different in the movies, by the sound of it.

[narainadun]

Keep in mind that all it took to defeat Sauron was removing the ring from his body. If Sauron had taken physical shape, then the destruction of the ring would not have defeated him, as he would have enough power outside of the ring to shape a physical body for himself. Sauron cannot use the power of the ring unless it is on his hand or in his presence. It was his Spirit that the White Council drove out of Mirkwood.
Somewhere in The Return of the King, someone (Faramir, Gandalf, or Tolkien? i can't remeber who.) mentions "The Window of the Eye" as being on Barad Dur. This implies that there is an Eye of Sauron. The Eye is, I think, both metaphorical and physical. It is metaphorical for Sauron's mind and will, which he clothes as a flaming lidless eye, just like the physical one on Barad Dur. Personally, i think that Sauron did interrogate Gollum in much the same way as he interrogated Pippin. i think he played with Gollum's mind to make him see a physical form with "four fingers on the black hand."

[Beleg-Of-Doriath]

Keep in mind that all it took to defeat Sauron was removing the ring from his body.

That's only in the films. In the book Sauron was defeated ('thrown down') after his fight with Gil-galad and Elendil, Isildur just retrieved the Ring from him once he was out, thereby vanquishing him for a time.

If Sauron had taken physical shape, then the destruction of the ring would not have defeated him, as he would have enough power outside of the ring to shape a physical body for himself. Sauron cannot use the power of the ring unless it is on his hand or in his presence. It was his Spirit that the White Council drove out of Mirkwood.

Sauron had a physical body. The reason he was vanquished permanently after the Ring was destroyed was because the part of Sauron that is within the Ring (the majority of his will by all accounts) was destroyed. So long as the Ring still existed Sauron was able to operate a physical body. That's the reason that Barad-dur was destroyed when the Ring was cast into the fire because the foundations were made using the power of the Ring.

[Drachos]

That's only in the films. In the book Sauron was defeated ('thrown down') after his fight with Gil-galad and Elendil, Isildur just retrieved the Ring from him once he was out, thereby vanquishing him for a time.

Umm, I think that Sauron burned Gil-Galad, and killed Elendil(Yeah taht was in the movies). IF it is different, could you point it out please?

[Adanamir]

Umm, I think that Sauron burned Gil-Galad, and killed Elendil(Yeah taht was in the movies). IF it is different, could you point it out please?

Here is a quote from The Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter 2 "The Shadow of the Past", a conversation between Gandalf and Frodo (Gandalf speaking):

It was Gil-galad, Elven-king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron, though they themselves perished in the deed; and Isildur Elendil's son cut the Ring from Sauron's hand and took it for his own. Then Sauron was vanquished and his spirit fled and was hidden for long years, until his shadow took shape again in Mirkwood.

As you can see, it doesn't say directly whether Gil-galad and Elendil directly fought Sauron (like in hand combat). However, it does suggest that when Isildur took the Ring, Sauron had already fallen. Then, it appears that at least while being in Dol Guldur, Sauron was only in spirit form, and it is quite possible that he was still a spirit during the events of the books, which explains why destroying the Ring would destroy Sauron as well.

[Beleg-Of-Doriath]

Umm, I think that Sauron burned Gil-Galad, and killed Elendil(Yeah taht was in the movies). IF it is different, could you point it out please?

The Black Hand of Sauron did indeed burn Gil-galad to death, and Elendil was killed in the fight as well. But Sauron also seems to have been taken out in the process.