Freeps learning to play

[Goodyear2007]

and again Remove power drains ? Really ? its come to this ? take it to general pvp forums if you want to care about power drains . Wanna trade bubbles for flies ? or maybe some rk and minnie heals ? lets see if turbine does it I would take the trade.

I have said on the pvp forums that I would be good changes to flies: make it a percentage drain, reduce the area of effect, and make it not stackable.

would I want to trade a 1.3k morale bubble for a skill that would drain my enemies power to 0 while refilling my power? umm yes? That's not a good trade for creeps.

I would be all for giving defilers minstrel like heals if their armour and mits were nerfed to light armor lvl. Let's see if turbine bites.

[YOUNGGUIDO]

The system is corrupt . We all should know this by now .

[1nTruDeR]

Am I missing something or this game isnt ment for "fellowships"?.I dont remember watching/reading about Aragorn "solo-ing" Mordor.Srsly what is it so taboo about grouping up and let everyone have a piece of the cake? You dont want to grp? fine thats your problem but dont qq about getting zerged over and over again.

PS: its obvious by now that creeps are op and you know what I say about that? Deal with it and learn to adapt instead of qq-ing

[Blato]

I like those threads where everyone talks about how the moors work for him.
The moors are balanced enough since U9. You can't say power drain or other skills are OP since freeps have similar skills.

Grouping is one problem of the moors, creeps usually have small groups with vets. Almost everytime they got 1-3 newbies following and gtagging them. Freeps sometimes do so too, but the amount of freeps is usually lower than the amount of creeps. Thats the first disadvantage.
When i see freeps having like 2 small groups and they defeat the creeps, the creeps group up and destroy them easily, the next reaction of freeps isn't forming a raid, it's usually a ragequit. While one of the groups sometimes still fights, even with no chance - that's a bit sad.

GV camps are just frustraiting for me, my reaver can't do anything there, just getting shot by hunters or rangers.
You guys never figured you could just go over the path to OR and come from behind, that should give you a decent chance to defeat the creeps, especially when its a RvR. + if creeps think you left, theres less to fight, what makes everything abit easier.

Then we have some freeps out there who really can't play their class . When i killed Urnakh's hunter at slugs he gave me a decent fight, but he was way undergeared and had no chance. I'm sure if those freeps would work on their equiptment and figure out how to play it, they'd be awesome.

But yeah, you have some good points here, creeps don't have to run skraids or instances for jewelry or TSoC's and star-lits and we don't have to kill hundreds and hundreds of mobs to get virtues. That gives us advantages and disadvantages, we have traits to manage our stats, but you have a huge decision to make what stats you want. How much finesse do i need? How much crit/tact mastery/physical mastery am i willing to give for a higher survivability?

And now i'm done with writing for another year. lol

[Nifroth]

I don't get it, is my English so bad? I never meant to stat that i have a problem with grouping, you will see me duo a lot of the time actually as well, etc.
Why is it that soloing = wrong to so many of you, at least they way people reply it implies that, hey, we like grouping, we will teach everyone to do only that, teach others to do only that - IT IS WHAT WE NEED! Well I say, I want to see people start soloing, where's the problem? Do people take it as a personal attack to their play-style if I say that the general idea of - everyone at the same place at the same time all the time = not my favorite[same as you aren't forced to not raid].

[scratz]

Creeps need a nerf ? for what freeps undergeared coming to the moors ? I mean realistically wait till feb and FA come out im sure creeps will need a nerf .

FA only give more 3 points on dps this dont change noting.


But most of the creeps when are soling and die or run they call a zerg for one kill single freeps. alone creeps arent OP (just defilers and WL are op).

FRAIDS most of the ppl dont follow TA/AW just want to attack what they want, raid leaders spen much more time trying to get all together then fighting. and on small groups we can do the same job then a fraid sometimes. when creeps are ganked by 2 or 3 guys group its FREEPHEALZERGEAZYMODE COME HELP...and that 3man are zerged by tons. most of the time inst need craid or fraid, but ppl insist to still against unfair number. but everyone play like they want. freeps still da best

[Derpon]

Creeps are op, there's no question about it. Freeps will just have to do what creepside did for the last 5 years when it was the flip side of the coin. Learn to adapt and put in some strategy.

Freeps cant just rocket into to battle singing to themselves with everyone on a different target and wipe the creeps anymore. LMs are quite the force now, use them. throw tar down get fire debuffs on creeps throw stick gourd down, instead of running from and around it kite through it so its doing constant damage to creeps.

Minis have the area circle that will increase inc heals to freeps put it on top of the tar rks still have op heals instead of one of the guards doing the moon walk behind the creep raid he should shield wall the rk, and with the lms you have use SI on both. SI everything. most importantly STAY ON THE SAME TARGET every time I'm watching freeps I fight there's 4-5 maybe even 6 people all on different targets. that makes a difference, burgs instead of dancing around a creep trying to get his phone number, try and CC the target your leader is on. and cappies, focus on healing your groups rather then trying to get a kb. seriously cappy heals are awesome if they'd use em.

There's a lot freeps can do that would murder creepside, the biggest problem I see is focus fire to start with.

That's just my 2 cents!

[shak_me]

FA only give more 3 points on dps this dont change noting.

its not the 3 points in dps, its the extra 100 points in legacies.........

when creeps are ganked by 2 or 3 guys group its FREEPHEALZERGEAZYMODE COME HELP...and that 3man are zerged by tons.

i don't know ANY combination of 3 creeps that can take out a 3 man like yours...... 2 minnies and a glory champ? really? what did you expect? its godmode, you all know it, you expect the zerg to attempt to get rid of it AND YOU STILL QQ......



get over yourself and pass some knowledge on.........

oh wait ya'll have.......



no RvR unless ya'll have 2-3 rks healing, 2-3 minnies healing, 1-3 cappies and a couple of guard to sheild wall. that way your only dps LMs have a chance at survival.


wanna know how i know its LMs? last night.......... 5 LMs! seriously no more champs, hunters, burgs, dps rks....... LMs........



AND i think its funny that ya'll have to use wardens to heal debuff in order to get kills. an average of 3-5 wardens per freaking RvR is hilarious, especially since they run after having to blow never surrender.



./sigh
./endrant

[scratz]

its not the 3 points in dps, its the extra 100 points in legacies.........




i don't know ANY combination of 3 creeps that can take out a 3 man like yours...... 2 minnies and a glory champ? really? what did you expect? its godmode, you all know it, you expect the zerg to attempt to get rid of it AND YOU STILL QQ......

no? try a defiler WL and a warg/reaver/ba its the same, no dps no one die.

but there is no problem 2minis champ but creep will still hug keep with a zerg... what we freeps can do?

[shak_me]

but there is no problem 2minis champ but creep will still hug keep with a zerg

Haven't hugged a keep in a long time at least when i'm out. We've chased into keeps, up to rez circles, EC, but no keep hugging.

80-90% of my fighting especially in the last 1-1/2 weeks has been around a rez/GV.

other than that, there's been TONS of fights at old TR hotspot, in front of TR (either side owning) INSIDE TR QUEST ROOM when outnumbering the freeps ( 1/2 up top, 1/2 at door outside), lugz hill, out by spider den, outposts, moo moos, bear valley, all over. i don't know where your getting this keep hugging idea, but for my experience it doesn't happen.

[Arnahk]

I like those threads where everyone talks about how the moors work for him.
The moors are balanced enough since U9. You can't say power drain or other skills are OP since freeps have similar skills.

Grouping is one problem of the moors, creeps usually have small groups with vets. Almost everytime they got 1-3 newbies following and gtagging them. Freeps sometimes do so too, but the amount of freeps is usually lower than the amount of creeps. Thats the first disadvantage.
When i see freeps having like 2 small groups and they defeat the creeps, the creeps group up and destroy them easily, the next reaction of freeps isn't forming a raid, it's usually a ragequit. While one of the groups sometimes still fights, even with no chance - that's a bit sad.

1- Freeps have similar skills. AoE power drain pet? Which freep class has that. I'll roll one straight away...

2- Remove your creeps goggles. It isn't the lack of will from freepside, it is the lack of volunteers. It is extremely hard to find enough players on freepside to start a group/raid and we better not be picky about who joins or who doesn't, if you see what I
mean...

---

Remove power drains ? ha , Give me 2 bubbles let me have a fellowships heart um oh yea some skills that hit for 9k and then you can talk about taking away power drain .

Creeps need a nerf ? for what freeps undergeared coming to the moors ? I mean realistically wait till feb and FA come out im sure creeps will need a nerf . Sarcasm get it ? Ive pvp'd on this game since 65 cap both sides . So so always happens if a freep doesn't know how to play they lose . If a creep doesn't know how to play they lose . In RVR if one side just plainly has a better raid leader they are going to win unless heavily outnumbered .

and again Remove power drains ? Really ? its come to this ? take it to general pvp forums if you want to care about power drains . Wanna trade bubbles for flies ? or maybe some rk and minnie heals ? lets see if turbine does it I would take the trade.


What I think it is , before you could wreck creeps 1v1 now you cant so therefore they are op ... please think of something better to talk about .

Oh im sure this will get brought up . I spam flies I use mordiriths brand . I supposedly run but yet can get 20k days legit . Oh im op yes I know ima defiler duh are massive dps cmon now .

This whole post gave me cancer.

No, but seriously.. :P

1- Skills that hit for 9k. Uhhhhhhuiohhuhuhhhh like what? Epic conclusion cannot hit for 9k in the moors. Neither can Heartseeker (which has like 5sec induction by the way ). Considering creeps have around ~20k morale unbuffed, Freeps have ~8k-10k. Reavers can hit 5ks. BAs can hit 5ks. Wargs can quickly add up to 5k, weavers too. Now how many freep can hit for half of creeps morale bar (~8k-10k) and still have high mitigations and morale? Zero.

2- First age LIs, a 10 DPS increase won't change anything at all. LOL. It is not like everyone will have them anyway.

3- Noob freeps/creeps lose often. No they don't lose, they die. We already talked about this. Raid leader here have practically nothing to do with the success of a PvMP raid. It doesn't take 5 years of experience to target other players by clicking on them and switch when they die. When Crickhollow starts to actually use tactics to win instead of just running to the opponent, fight, die/kill. Then we can give leaders credit. Definitely not that much right now.

4- Power drains. The problem here is that defiler's power drain isn't just any power drain. Your power drain is a 12k morale pet. With AoE effect, instant cast and can stack. Maybe a nerf could be possible? no?

PS: How do you like having 2.000 rating since the launch of RoR??

[shak_me]

12k morale pet. With AoE effect, instant cast and can stack.

ask LMs what their pet morales are at, and why they only use the lynx instead of maybe the ghost pet that has aoe miss chance, aoe heals, and something else i don't remember right now, or the saberfang that does aoe hits, the bear that can debuff, the raven that has interrupts and mitigation boosts........

1-2 yellow line LMs with 2-3 red line LMs is more lethal that 3-5 red line LMs..........

ANOTHER freep problem, if it doesn't damage its no good....... geez. l2use all your skills.


OH I FORGOT.......

in relation to 20k morale creeps vs 10k morale freeps........ i want to see numerous if ANY creeps that can spike heal over 2.5k hps. i know on my lvl 80 minstrel.... with lvl 75 LIs i can spike heal up to 4k hps, with a maintain of over 2k hps. by myself...... ya'll have 3+ healers ON AVERAGE that should be able to maintain at least 1/2 of that if not more. AND before all the QQ of wargs/spiders pestering the minnies/rks......... WHAT DO YOUR BURGS/CHAMPS/WARDENS DO? they pester our warleaders and defilers..................

[Derpon]

On the subject on power drains actually, I've long had the opinion they need to be changed to drain practically nothing, just a symbolic amount and function as a way to regain power, because with several drainers it just gets out of hand and often enough boring.

BUT how then, will creeps ever be able to fight anything again?

[shak_me]

U5 brought the very amazing auto dev and two effect clever retort sets. Together with the way RoI let burgs have crazy dmg and probably best survivability freepside at the time if played carefully, ofc.
U6 Brought finesse - burgs get hit more often + wargs with two stances, both making burgs way vulnerable.

The way wargs were at the end on RoI, I wouldn't say they were anywhere near the best days of burgs, but they were pretty strong when played by good players - they were pretty fotm (like usual, but w/e) now ROR comes out and they get pretty much ignored with a few changes. U9 Pounce cd got longer right? OP auto interrupt gone, that can pretty much be called a nerf.

That's what I meant :P why i expect more nerfs to wargs, hah

Spiders are like wardens though, they just get some nerf to make everyone forget that they are still crazy :P
Tho nerf to wrds is way bigger than that to catch pray (they did nerf it a bit, if I remember right)

burgs suck generally speaking.... just saying


with the dual stances, a careful trait setup, wargs can be OP. ./agree
i don't care that pounce cd got changed, i don't care that there's no OP interrupt, the way they changed is is more OP than what it was.

seriously.....

4x stacking, bleed, each attack does 500+ damage on a 1sec cd, with at 150-250 bleed stacked? OP

-25% incoming healing, stacks 4x. and ya'll wonder why wargs are running around visible, as well as an armour reduction, the root is still there(easier to interrupt now) a knockdown like a CJ, still keep the CJ skill, still have an interrupt, and
attack/induction modifiers no matter what stance. granted this is on a r8 warg, just like in a previous post someone mentioned that wls can stun all the time, that's a r9 skill, unless p2w.

overall the past freep confrontation experiences have taught creeps that p2w can be easier to get the rank and battlefield promotions to actually survive, than it is to just rank normally.
creeps still rank normally, though i'd say probably 1/2 have bought 1-2 things, skills/traits, to make the ranking easier.
ya'll forget that while its a grind to get your meaningless rank, its still a grind for us too. except we still get skills while we rank.
the BIGGEST PROBLEM I forsee in the present/future is this, freeps adaptability vs ranking creeps is not adapting enough. now that we have a decent amount of creeps rank 8 + the freeps don't know how to handle the pressure.

[Blato]

1- Freeps have similar skills. AoE power drain pet? Which freep class has that. I'll roll one straight away...

2- Remove your creeps goggles. It isn't the lack of will from freepside, it is the lack of volunteers. It is extremely hard to find enough players on freepside to start a group/raid and we better not be picky about who joins or who doesn't, if you see what I
mean...

Roll an lm - AoE mezz, AoE heal pet, AoE slow, single target power drain which gives more power to you and the possibility to GIVE power to the whole group.

And secondly, i dont have creep goggles, and you said exactly what i meant, i didnt talk about the 'will', i mean - they even want to start (another) Pvp kin..


@itty : That video... i can just say... lol..

[Erlessa]

Thor, but the thing is, not always that huge number of creeps IS grouped up. Best example are GV camps. And why don't they go anywhere else? Because freeps can't use the fire escape. Also, most creeps are unable to solo minstrels, some burgs, some champs and some wardens, but they wanna win. So... And creeps are used to grouping up because it used to be a necessity. I believe you remember how easy it was to solo 3 random creeps at once.

Clownfish, weaver get to 5k fast? Any good freep dps can get to 10k+ faster. Not to mention reavers got nothing compared to champs' AoE. All champs seem to be pushing heavy morale or worse, glory, recently (I mean in raids, I get using glory in solo).

And raid leaders can have a lot of impact on the raids. I haven't taken part in any freep ones recently, naturally, but tactics used to be a topic (FRAID ----> X CRAID is not a tactic), and traiting and usage of skills, too. Fraid leaders shouldn't be afraid to ask people to trait differently or use specific skills (assuming they know what they're talking about, which I see could be a problem) for the benefit of the group. If you are in a group, you should play for it, you don't see me running after the TA trying to hit Drink Deep to get a kb, I sit and try to powerdrain healers and stun or root anything that is annoying and even throw an attack duration debuff on champs and rks occasionally, because that benefits the group more, because some of my skills are more unique than other classes' and more useful in group play. Anyone can hit a 1234 dps rotation...

[dsadada]

lmao I miss this fights, its good to be back

[FortunateSon]

I raided up last couple of days and I gotta say, it's been fairly boring. God I try to make it fun, but small group is just so much better.

Best thing to come from it is the burst of QQ off creeps on the forums..... wonder why.....

ROBO-SLANGIN

[shak_me]

I raided up last couple of days and I gotta say, it's been fairly boring. God I try to make it fun, but small group is just so much better.

Best thing to come from it is the burst of QQ off creeps on the forums..... wonder why.....

ROBO-SLANGIN

and I thank you for that chiron, those are primarily the times of actual fun pvmp. need more like that.


+rep

[Hoges]

BUT how then, will creeps ever be able to fight anything again?

Itty can you show me the power drains on my rk please

[Arnahk]

Roll an lm - AoE mezz, AoE heal pet, AoE slow, single target power drain which gives more power to you and the possibility to GIVE power to the whole group.

And secondly, i dont have creep goggles, and you said exactly what i meant, i didnt talk about the 'will', i mean - they even want to start (another) Pvp kin..

Good thing I specified AoE power drain. (Here I wrote it in a different colour to make sure you see it next time!)

AoE heal pet? which pet? AoE slow? I'm sorry but if you can't go around a black circle on the ground then you deserve to die.

By the way, Defilers have an AoE fear, and slugs have an AoE slow aswell. Why don't you guys stop killing the slugs and let them join the creep raids too?

[Goodyear2007]

in relation to 20k morale creeps vs 10k morale freeps........ i want to see numerous if ANY creeps that can spike heal over 2.5k hps. i know on my lvl 80 minstrel.... with lvl 75 LIs i can spike heal up to 4k hps, with a maintain of over 2k hps. by myself...... ya'll have 3+ healers ON AVERAGE that should be able to maintain at least 1/2 of that if not more. AND before all the QQ of wargs/spiders pestering the minnies/rks......... WHAT DO YOUR BURGS/CHAMPS/WARDENS DO? they pester our warleaders and defilers..................

PVE numbers mean absolute jack in pvp.

1) audacity gear has far lower will than current 85 pve gear
2) any minstrel who doesn't want to be dead 90% of the time has to devote some jewellry slots to mit/morale
3) you don't heal in RvR in a protected bubble LOL. I know i have parsed me sustaining 3.5k hps in harmony in skraids, yet this will NEVER happen in an RvR situation. Minstrels are cc'd, silenced, feared, power drained, and focus fired. for most moors fights my hps is around 1.5k-2k BECAUSE OF AOE HEALING and HoT's. Single target bursting on a minstrel requires time to tier up and put out anthem of the third age(meaning no anthem of composure for power return) since the increase in creep dps has made bolster of courage's induction too long to save any light/medium armour freep. You see where I'm going here?

[shak_me]

PVE numbers mean absolute jack in pvp.

1) audacity gear has far lower will than current 85 pve gear
2) any minstrel who doesn't want to be dead 90% of the time has to devote some jewellry slots to mit/morale
3) you don't heal in RvR in a protected bubble LOL. I know i have parsed me sustaining 3.5k hps in harmony in skraids, yet this will NEVER happen in an RvR situation. Minstrels are cc'd, silenced, feared, power drained, and focus fired. for most moors fights my hps is around 1.5k-2k BECAUSE OF AOE HEALING and HoT's. Single target bursting on a minstrel requires time to tier up and put out anthem of the third age(meaning no anthem of composure for power return) since the increase in creep dps has made bolster of courage's induction too long to save any light/medium armour freep. You see where I'm going here?

nope. just see more QQ. i know what happens, i've looked at the gear, i've healed in the moors. i also know that shield walls on minnies and rks eliminate 90% of your current QQ in that post, something that's been happening alot lately. also add the hots of Rks, LMs, and cappies, and healing is still close to the numbers i posted.

and i find it hard to believe that. after all before RoI even, all it took was a shield wall and a LM to have 1 minnie take over 60k damage. i know i did it on my squishy little minnie. so remember all, learn to use all skills in arsenal, not just dps skills.


as far as clownfish....... git yo eyes back in yo head boi.


i, as wel as the freep you quoted, are talking about FREEP STRENGTHS, while you continue to disregard them and QQ more about the creeps strengths. learn the freep classes as well as the creep classes and you'll have a better understanding of the moors.

[Arnahk]

PVE numbers mean absolute jack in pvp.

1) audacity gear has far lower will than current 85 pve gear
2) any minstrel who doesn't want to be dead 90% of the time has to devote some jewellry slots to mit/morale
3) you don't heal in RvR in a protected bubble LOL. I know i have parsed me sustaining 3.5k hps in harmony in skraids, yet this will NEVER happen in an RvR situation. Minstrels are cc'd, silenced, feared, power drained, and focus fired. for most moors fights my hps is around 1.5k-2k BECAUSE OF AOE HEALING and HoT's. Single target bursting on a minstrel requires time to tier up and put out anthem of the third age(meaning no anthem of composure for power return) since the increase in creep dps has made bolster of courage's induction too long to save any light/medium armour freep. You see where I'm going here?

^^^^^ again. I played both mini and defiler and it's a loooooot different.

While defilers have lower heals. They don't have to worry about getting focused since they have around 23k morale and are tough as fk to take down while minstrels are light armour, have fairly low morale. Have to heal themselves more than anything and barely have anything left to give to the raid if they want to live more than 2.5 sec. My r4 defiler with 7 audacity has a 47 k/d/r, usually is last to go down, while the minstrel was always targeted first and usually went down first too, making it really difficult to keep up alive a whole group.

[Fantos]

1- Skills that hit for 9k. Uhhhhhhuiohhuhuhhhh like what? Epic conclusion cannot hit for 9k in the moors. Neither can Heartseeker (which has like 5sec induction by the way )

Lol im 99.99% sure heartseeker can hit for 9k..the very first day i came back i hit a 6.5k on a ranked creep with r10-13 audacity...and that was with 0 ops and i was still 75 with all the 75 gear. Now if i can do that kind of dmg at 75..im pretty sure at 85 with gear i could hit a 9k..now just think again...what if we have all 4 ops? what if this time i actually use burnhot and my focus crit lol. with a nice SA with crit legacies maybe? soooooooo yerp i think a 9k HS is very possible.