Transcript: LOTRO Developer Twitter Chat - Thursday March 21, 2013

[Segarnis]

I'm going to have to point out a couple of points. First, Question #1 was about game performane. Second, it strikes me the majority of those complaining about the quality of the questions and making the most negative comments did not themselves ask any. Perhaps in the future you could seek to rectify that?

Having spent 20 years in application development including a stint as the CTO of a small company, I appreciate the amount of effort that you guys have gone through to produce something quite good. Are there bugs? Of course. Are they annoying? At times, yes. But no one with any concept of application development and the challenges that come with producing something as complex as LOTRO should complain about game performance.

Having said this, however, there are ways to improve your internal processes to produce better quality results. BMC sells a solution called AppSight Problem Resolution System. CA Technologies sells Service Virtualization to allow you to heavily compress the SDLC while at the same time reducing the number of defects present. And, of course, Wily Introscope is an excellent APM solution that will probably predictive capabilities to allow you to be proactive in reducing production issues especially around application performance.

Send me an email to the address on my Turbine account if you want to chat about this at all.

[furtim]

ITT baseless conspiracy mongering.

*dons Tinfoil Hat of the Eastemnet*

[BigLotroFan]

Pretty disappointed that there are no new instances for Wildermore and honestly, I'm also somewhat concerned at the answer for scaling old content. As a player I want old instances to scale in addition to new instances. The answer seemed to imply either one or the other. :/

Not to mention the answer for the cost of Wildermore was a half answer. Ok, it's free for VIP. What about F2P/Premium? Is it that hard to say that the price hasn't been decided yet instead of just ignoring that part of the answer?

I'm glad someone asked about the "refine all" option. It has been suggested a few times on the forums. Not sure if the devs had heard it before judging by the answer but they heard it now. Kudos to you!

Was hoping they'd talk about the 2nd age symbols/1st age symbols being farmable for short periods of time after updates. Are these design decisions to have limited availability or just mistakes that have happened on two consecutive updates? It'd be nice to know what the intent was from the beginning so I'd know what to expect in the future...

[Sapience]

Pretty disappointed that there are no new instances for Wildermore and honestly, I'm also somewhat concerned at the answer for scaling old content. As a player I want old instances to scale in addition to new instances. The answer seemed to imply either one or the other. :/

Not to mention the answer for the cost of Wildermore was a half answer. Ok, it's free for VIP. What about F2P/Premium? Is it that hard to say that the price hasn't been decided yet instead of just ignoring that part of the answer?

I'm glad someone asked about the "refine all" option. It has been suggested a few times on the forums. Not sure if the devs had heard it before judging by the answer but they heard it now. Kudos to you!

Was hoping they'd talk about the 2nd age symbols/1st age symbols being farmable for short periods of time after updates. Are these design decisions to have limited availability or just mistakes that have happened on two consecutive updates? It'd be nice to know what the intent was from the beginning so I'd know what to expect in the future...

Wildermore being a half answer was simply because there was no one from Ecommerce there to answer it. We make a point of letting everyone know who is attending the chat and what they are working on and can answer so people don't ask a lot of questions we have no one present to answer. THat said, I asked and the answer is the price is on par with the Great River. I don't have an exact price, but you should be able to look that up in the LOTRO Store. Best I could do at 9PM.

The 1st age question was answered here. Scroll up. It was a bug. It was fixed. Sorry. I know the exciting conspiracy theories were so much more interesting than the truth, but there it is.

[RSmuppet]

While i imagine skill trees will make the game easier to understand for those coming in from other games I worry that it will pigeonhole players into using certain builds that the "good" players deem ideal further separating the community.

The other gripe I have is that I don't see why it's necessary to have every class in one of three or something defined lines. Where's the personalisation and changing to play styles there? We all do the same set of jobs but can we not do them in different ways?

[Verizal]

This is the type of stuff that makes me wonder why Bullroarer testing even exists if these changes come out and its SO wrong that you have to go back and reverse it. It seems like this is happening a lot for updates. How in the world was this NOT seen in testing?

To clarify a bit more on this:

When the changes first went in, Fate's contribution to ICPR was so high mainly to account for the fact that I was worried that classes might not be able to obtain as much Fate from gear as I would have liked. As it turns out, we were able to get in a bit more Fate gear than planned which, when combined with a multitude of +Max Power, easily left many classes without power issues. Due to such a high ICPR contribution, however, I found that I was having to scale back a bit more than I would have liked on skills that increased ICPR and Fate, almost placing Fate on its own level, rather than in-line with the other four primary stats.

With the changes that you will be seeing, yes Fate will see a decreased ICPR contribution, but I have also further lowered skill costs to make up for it. For those of you that have been spending time building up Fate, it will certainly not be going to waste, as all adjustments have been made to continue to hit the goals that we originally set forth. Given some of the newer gear for U10, classes should find that they are able to hit 400+ Fate rather easily, which is the intent going forward. With that said, we are still continuing to balance these changes and will certainly be addressing any classes that still appear to be having issues

[bastiat1]

With the changes that you will be seeing, yes Fate will see a decreased ICPR contribution, but I have also further lowered skill costs to make up for it.

It just seems like you are creating a system that is going to require so many tweaks over time that it's going to be a nightmare. Moebius has done very good work explaining the issues you are creating. Forget "Power" as a concept. Think about "Fight Time". "ICPR" increases "Fight Time". By Fate having a linear contribution to ICPR, it creates increasing returns to scale to Fight Time. Fight Time can basically become infinite with a modest amount of Fate. If you keep the ICPR/Fate relationship liner you are always going to have the problem of infinite "Fight Time". You are going to have to constantly tweak itemization and skill power costs to keep correcting the problem because you don't have a self-correcting system. You are creating a nightmare for yourselves.

Seriously, read Moebius' work on this.

p.s. And whomever eliminated the "Game Mechanics" forum should bring it back because that's the place where people that understand this stuff used to meet to discuss matters that 90% of the population considers esoteric.

[bastiat1]

Any chance that you could expand on this? Is the Helm's Deep instanced content designed to be group content or solo content (or perhaps a mix of both)?

I ask only because the way the second sentence is phrased it leaves open the possibility that Helm's Deep will be the third straight expansion with no new instance cluster at launch.

I just don't see how I can possibly purchase another expansion without a multi-boss progression raid on release. Not just "instances" a multi-boss progression raid. I've been burned too many times now. I would bet that a large share of the raiding population is asking themselves the same question. Sadly, that's like 500 people. Ugh.

[bastiat1]

The raiding community is about to vanish... i've played this game from beta and over the last 6-12 months have sat on the fence concerning the content of this game......
I'm obviously a raider and its the main reason i play this game and i appreciate everyone has there needs, but in my opinion this is something that's been over looked for some time.

Despite being a VIP (Lifetime) member i spend a decent amount of money on this game per month buying TP in a effort to invest in the games future - but the future of this game isn't heading in a direction i like i'll be looking to invest my money else where now

You aren't alone brother.

[Lestache]

To clarify a bit more on this:

When the changes first went in, Fate's contribution to ICPR was so high mainly to account for the fact that I was worried that classes might not be able to obtain as much Fate from gear as I would have liked. As it turns out, we were able to get in a bit more Fate gear than planned which, when combined with a multitude of +Max Power, easily left many classes without power issues. Due to such a high ICPR contribution, however, I found that I was having to scale back a bit more than I would have liked on skills that increased ICPR and Fate, almost placing Fate on its own level, rather than in-line with the other four primary stats.

With the changes that you will be seeing, yes Fate will see a decreased ICPR contribution, but I have also further lowered skill costs to make up for it. For those of you that have been spending time building up Fate, it will certainly not be going to waste, as all adjustments have been made to continue to hit the goals that we originally set forth. Given some of the newer gear for U10, classes should find that they are able to hit 400+ Fate rather easily, which is the intent going forward. With that said, we are still continuing to balance these changes and will certainly be addressing any classes that still appear to be having issues

I'll second Bastiat's encouragement to read Moebius' work on this.

In any case, please hold off on your Fate revamp until I can get my ICPR higher than my power pool. I'm nearly there!

[Eartholloth]

To clarify a bit more on this:

When the changes first went in, Fate's contribution to ICPR was so high mainly to account for the fact that I was worried that classes might not be able to obtain as much Fate from gear as I would have liked. As it turns out, we were able to get in a bit more Fate gear than planned which, when combined with a multitude of +Max Power, easily left many classes without power issues. Due to such a high ICPR contribution, however, I found that I was having to scale back a bit more than I would have liked on skills that increased ICPR and Fate, almost placing Fate on its own level, rather than in-line with the other four primary stats.

With the changes that you will be seeing, yes Fate will see a decreased ICPR contribution, but I have also further lowered skill costs to make up for it. For those of you that have been spending time building up Fate, it will certainly not be going to waste, as all adjustments have been made to continue to hit the goals that we originally set forth. Given some of the newer gear for U10, classes should find that they are able to hit 400+ Fate rather easily, which is the intent going forward. With that said, we are still continuing to balance these changes and will certainly be addressing any classes that still appear to be having issues

Just don't go overboard in your decreasing it. This has been a nice boost to my minstrel. Specially during skirms.

[Loreineth]

=how should a "real" gamer feel other than ostracized? Cast out? It's quite obvious that this game is not capable of being anything more than a casual distraction for that type of gamer.

Sorry, but your whole wall of text is pretty much moot when you arrogantly imply that anyone who doesn't play your way isn't a 'real' gamer.

[avengingbananaslug]

I'm going to have to point out a couple of points. First, Question #1 was about game performane. Second, it strikes me the majority of those complaining about the quality of the questions and making the most negative comments did not themselves ask any. Perhaps in the future you could seek to rectify that?

Well I asked a question that got answered and I feel pretty negative about the answer:-)

How about two follow up questions in terms of why there will be no LI revamp:

1) Do you all like the mindless grind that is the LI system?

2) and do you really think it's appropriate to be constantly destroying countless "legendary" items?

[Namesse]

To clarify a bit more on this:

When the changes first went in, Fate's contribution to ICPR was so high mainly to account for the fact that I was worried that classes might not be able to obtain as much Fate from gear as I would have liked. As it turns out, we were able to get in a bit more Fate gear than planned which, when combined with a multitude of +Max Power, easily left many classes without power issues. Due to such a high ICPR contribution, however, I found that I was having to scale back a bit more than I would have liked on skills that increased ICPR and Fate, almost placing Fate on its own level, rather than in-line with the other four primary stats.

What about those who are Wi-flagged with your pseudo random number generator and haven't been able to acquire anything with fate? Are we just SOL?

Is the non-randomness of the number generator being addressed at all?

[Verizal]

By Fate having a linear contribution to ICPR, it creates increasing returns to scale to Fight Time. Fight Time can basically become infinite with a modest amount of Fate. If you keep the ICPR/Fate relationship liner you are always going to have the problem of infinite "Fight Time".

This is our intent with the Fate revamp. One of our main goals is to allow players to fight infinitely, should they be willing to sacrifice some of their other offensive/defensive stats for Fate. With the changes coming in 10.1 we are by no means reverting Fate back to its previous state. It will still retain a higher contribution to ICPR than pre-u10, and this contribution will remain linear. We are simply readjusting it to the current state of itemization, where it will require more than a modest effort to reach this state of infinite fight time.

[Ferthcott]

One of our main goals is to allow players to fight infinitely, should they be willing to sacrifice some of their other offensive/defensive stats for Fate.

I am assuming/hoping your scenario includes "...and use every proper class regen skill, consumable and group support tools available".


/paranoia

[Dwarov]

Thank you to all the folks at Turbine who work on this game day in and day out. You can't please everyone and the majority of the folks that pipe up are those with something negative. From the content of these comments, one would think you have written Humanity's final chapter...

Here's my input: I don't feel like LIs are a grind, I don't mind paying for some things since there's no monthly fee, I've not experienced lag or server instability, a skill revamp might be nice - less, not more (as a soloing champ I press the same 5 or 6 buttons a billion times per session, rarely using any others because I don't need to - not even sure what some of them do...), don't think it's too easy (I stay about 4-5 levels above the quests I'm doing so I expect it to be easier - on-level seems just about right), and I love the scenery/attention to detail/distinct look to each area.

The most amazing thing is that when things do get a little tedious, it dawns on me that there are many other games to play, books to read, and movies to watch, then after some time off I come back and my character is still here *and it cost me nothing*.

Thanks again for the fun so far and the fun yet to be!

[Valinus]

. . . as a soloing champ I press the same 5 or 6 buttons a billion times per session, rarely using any others because I don't need to - not even sure what some of them do...

. . . don't think it's too easy. . .

These two statements seem to be at odds with one another. If you can successfully play a game without understanding and utilizing all of your skills, I think it might be considered 'too easy.'

[Southpa]

Sorry, but your whole wall of text is pretty much moot when you arrogantly imply that anyone who doesn't play your way isn't a 'real' gamer.

Tell it like it is, right.
Do you really think I care what you think?

[Loreineth]

Tell it like it is, right.
Do you really think I care what you think?

No, I'm sure you don't. However, it also means that few people will bother to want a dialogue with you.

I don't see eye to eye with Lestache, either, but he doesn't adopt the attitude that only people in lockstep with his thinking should be allowed to play 'his' game, which is how I understood your rant.

Have a beautiful day.

[Gwuryn]

I'm going to have to point out a couple of points. First, Question #1 was about game performane. Second, it strikes me the majority of those complaining about the quality of the questions and making the most negative comments did not themselves ask any. Perhaps in the future you could seek to rectify that?

And perhaps in the future, you developers can actually listen to players and stop making changes nobody asked for, such as class trait trees and switching the warden's main stat to agility.

[Fredelas]

This is our intent with the Fate revamp. One of our main goals is to allow players to fight infinitely, should they be willing to sacrifice some of their other offensive/defensive stats for Fate.

Because Fate also functions as a moderate-to-strong offensive stat (crit rating) and weak defensive stat (ICMR) for many classes, it might still be more of a compromise than a sacrifice.

[PyrateWench]

I'm sure this will probably get lost in the sea of other comments, but for what it's worth...please don't add crafting to the housing area. I would hate to see the towns less populated. I've seen it happen in other games when crafting is added to player housing or guild (kin) housing; hardly anyone bothers to go into the towns because there isn't much incentive. A long time ago, LOTRO devs said they would never, ever add crafting facilities to the housing areas for that EXACT reason. I am sad to see it is now on the table.

[furtim]

Because Fate also functions as a moderate-to-strong offensive stat (crit rating) and weak defensive stat (ICMR) for many classes, it might still be more of a compromise than a sacrifice.

Ehhhhhhhhnnnnn... ICMR is basically an irrelevant stat. As for Crit, it's obviously good, but from 400 Fate you're getting, what, 900ish Crit Rating? So, maybe a little bit more than a single piece of gear with a raw Crit Rating slice on it.

It's not nothing, but I'm not that impressed. Certainly, it's not going to drive my gear decisions. Like, if you offer me a ring with 40 Fate or 700 Crit Rating (I'm not looking up the stat slice calculations, but this is my gut feeling for what one stat slice gets you at level 85), all else being equal, that's just a no-brainer. I'm taking the Crit, unless I'm a tank. (And even then, hey, damage generates threat...)

This is our intent with the Fate revamp. One of our main goals is to allow players to fight infinitely, should they be willing to sacrifice some of their other offensive/defensive stats for Fate. With the changes coming in 10.1 we are by no means reverting Fate back to its previous state. It will still retain a higher contribution to ICPR than pre-u10, and this contribution will remain linear. We are simply readjusting it to the current state of itemization, where it will require more than a modest effort to reach this state of infinite fight time.

You guys are up later than usual. Hi.

[Jaliki55]

Yes, Hoarsedev didn't confuse that. He means that Slayer Deeds may give Class Traits.

That's just a bad bad bad idea.

The skill deeds make sense as they are, because as you use a skill, and after X uses you get the trait for that deed.

I like having virtue deeds. I don't like grinding for them! If it comes to it, reduce the kill's necessary to something reasonable (like 125 total kills for basic and advanced), and then halve the TP that the deed rewards. I get you can't give out free TP, but the requirements for Forchel worms, for example, is ludicrous, and prohibitive.

My time is precious to me. I play games to have fun. If I'm not having fun, I won't play your game. I'll go play Minecraft, Star Trek Online, MWO, or Crusader Kings 2, etc etc etc.

Turbine needs to compete for me time, and you're really not doing that great of a job at it. If it weren't for my kinship, I'd have stopped playing, except maybe for the epic story line.

tl;dr: Not a rant, but constructive criticism.