Twenty Questions with the LOTRO Dev Team

[Ceremony]

Is true that Moria instances would be next to 85?
Why is Flight t2cm the hardest meanwhile the easiest on tier 1?
What going on with update on new looting system?

[timmyloo22546]

It's sad Turbine isn't working on pvmp. I agree with Turbine that it is pointless to work on a balancing act right now due to upcoming class changes with freeps. However, a balancing act isn't the only quality of life change that goes a long ways. No matter how hard turbine or anyone tries to balance an open-world pvmp area it will always be unbalanced due to numbers (which is part of the fun at times imo). Turbine should use the time to better other aspects of the Ettenmoors.

1. Remove the individual icons saying which keep/outpost is giving you how much renown/mastery and do a total "+60% renown/glory gain" or "+6800 tact/physical mastery." I personally don't care if the text looks slightly sloppy but it could go something like this"

Renown Icon

"Renown buffs = 90%
-TR
-TA
-Tree boss
-LY"

^^but type out the actual names of keeps + delving boss the side owns.

Outpost Icon

"Mastery buffs = 6800
-River OP
-Isen OP"

^^again, type out the actual names. I just logged into my BA; I have 9 icons for infamy gains & mastery gains. Changing this could potentially remove 7 icons that nobody needs to see.

2. Freepside: Move the battlefield promotions buff to the war-tab or character journal. Creeps don't have the icon and I like it that way. I feel that is unecessary to display under character name. Rank doesn't change very often and war-tab is easy to access.

3. Terrain features: It'd be nice to have an area dedicated to empty ruins. Maybe at old EC x-roads? The map already contains trees, big rocks to circle around, and keeps with hallways/stairwells but nothing with many corners in one location. It'd kinda be like a broken maze.

[timmyloo22546]

Q20: What is being done about Multi-boxing/Rank Farming?

If re-rolling creeps for rank farming is an issue then limiting the # of times a creep class can be created to once every 2 days would be a good deterrent. However, If players wait long enough before killing the same creep again DR doesn't kick in which gives no need to re-create the creeps.

Btw, what is considered rank farming? Is that like being on a captain + LM (same person) multi-boxing and grouped together but he keeps 1 parked in GV and PvPs with the other getting free points for the toon he doesn't play?

Or is it when 24 creeps raid together to kill 2 freeps in order to maximize the amount of total points received from those freeps?

I'd like to know what Turbine considers rank farming.

[Viriel]

I understand then that rank farming is not allowed in game since that post (not long ago it wasn't an offence according to the Turbine team, so i would like to clear that up)? Question following first is (if rank farming is not allowed): When I will find someone farming and report that person, will i cause GM to log into the game and look on his own at reported farmer (if he still will be there)? Will that GM be in force to penalize said farming player?

Can we have official Turbine answer to my questions from the quote above? Is the rank farming considered now a bannable offence? Are GM's instructed to act on obvious cases like the one from the quote above?

[Annariel]

That's right Player vs. Player. So how can you, afther saying that, consider external-software driven ''multi-boxers'' to fit into that? If i see the same RK on my server (Gilrain) with his same cappy ''bots'' on follow healing/buffing him again, than fair Player vs. Player action is the last thing that comes in my mind.

If it's 'driven by external software', that would make it a bot, which I believe is against the rules. Multi-boxing, on the other hand, is generally defined as a single player controlling multiple characters. The player may have a hardware setup which allows a single button press (on a single keyboard) to go to several characters, but no skills will be executed unless initiated by the player.

That's why someone up-thread compared it to having a coordinated team. If you could find five friends (or train five monkeys) who are willing/able to press whichever button you call out and set things up properly (target forwarding, for instance), you could achieve the same effect without involving any additional hardware/software.

[edjepredje]

If it's 'driven by external software', that would make it a bot, which I believe is against the rules. Multi-boxing, on the other hand, is generally defined as a single player controlling multiple characters. The player may have a hardware setup which allows a single button press (on a single keyboard) to go to several characters, but no skills will be executed unless initiated by the player.

It works like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6OWbuTdiLk
Basicly, you just place the skills of other characters into your own screen with software/plugins for the single purpose of just boosting your original charachter. There is absolutly nothing that is being controlled from these multi-boxed charachers, it's simpely abused to give your already hard to kill RK ( for example ,like what happend on our server ) a couple new skills such as : cappy bubble/shield wall/Fellowships hearth etc.

That's why someone up-thread compared it to having a coordinated team. If you could find five friends (or train five monkeys) who are willing/able to press whichever button you call out and set things up properly (target forwarding, for instance), you could achieve the same effect without involving any additional hardware/software.

Again, what do you think that happens if you have a coordinated team + that one or two players who have a bunch of multi-boxers? Do need to get a bigger team than? Than they will bring more ''bots'' etc.

P.S. This isn't intented as a discussion between you and me , i mean to say these things in general about multi-boxing and rank farming.

~Edhun of Gilrain

[SavinDwarf]

Q18: A common staple of players asking for Feature X is that it will be 'easy' to implement. Can you give us an insight into what is actually involved in making a seemingly minor change to the game?

A18: It is impossible to gauge ease of implementation without having a thorough knowledge of how things work under the hood. Things that are conceptually simple aren’t necessarily easy to implement. Of equal importance is resource management. In order to release big things we have to dedicate staff. Diverting them away, even for things that really are easy has a cost. We are constantly prioritizing things as best we can, but day-to-day we are stuck with a lot of ideas that just don’t fit right now. It is a fluid process.

Now for a practical example…

Change skill X to do behavior Y.
OK, go in and change the skill. Done!
Wait… not done!
Does it need a new animation or effects?
Does it need new audio?
Hmmm… need to translate that text on the skill?
What about the icon?
What about the quest that relied on that skill? Rewrite it? Don’t forget to translate that too!
Is there an external tag for release notes?
Oh dear… we used to mod that old skill with legacies… Make new legacies.
Update any vendors or other ui that used to sell the old legacies with the new ones.
Update the skill trainers with the new skill.
Translate those legacies.
By the way, that new skill breaks PvMP… rebalance please… possibly with new text to translate.
Oh, those legacies were on the store… new store offers… yes, you can translate those too.
Oh dear I hope that skill doesn’t have an advanced version or deeds related to it. If so, change them and translate.
And I hope you are only working in one branch of the build… otherwise, you can return to the top of this process and merge everything over. - HoarseDev

And you forgot...

Add it to the list of things that QA needs to test
Make sure the change is documented in the release notes
and make sure the release notes are in three languages
review all the comments that come back saying the change is bad just in case someone has a good point.

BTW, I really enjoyed the twenty questions....

I think a couple of great questions for the next one of these would be:

1) What is Turbine's process for tuning landscape/quests/instances/raids to an appropriate level of difficulty. Especially considering the huge gulf in the level of equipment within the player base. On group content do you have an ideal class composition in mind when you tune the content?

2) Do you ever review your educational material to see if its current with the game and/or doing the job that was expected? Or do you just rely on new players understanding that they should directly go to community developed overviews/run throughs/how-tos/etc?


......

[Danchir]

I'm a bit disappointed on Q18. It seems like the major burden in the process is... the translation :/

Quests relying on a particular skill - I don't get that.

New animations, new sounds, new icons... Rarely the first two are necessary, and the last one often uses the same icon or another already used for something else icon (RKs ring a bell here, I guess).

By the way, trash the LI-system altogether and 75% of these problems will vanish.

[IttleBubba]

Ever get an answer to the Paid Services question? Is there any hope of a timeline in the near future?

I have and 85 guard and a grand master of the guild champ scholar I'd like to undelete; I'd like to know if I should forget them and start over.

This is the question I hear asked most often on glff -- when are transfers coming back? I can't believe it's not in the top 20.

Sincerely,
Lou de Torres

Agreed with Lou. I patiently began waiting 3 months ago, deciding not to re roll a toon that had been deleted, interested in paying $20 for an undelete. We were told we'd be updated about changes in the "near future" 3 months ago. Since that hasn't occured many of us wanting to pay you substantial money for such paid services are losing faith that they will return at all. We'd like a better timeline or even a basic estimate. So many people keep asking because there are so many of us wanting to pay you guys for that service, and this makes a big impact on gameplay choices in general for many of us.

& ps. I've subscribed for more than 3 years, (hug, pat on developers' backs, hug, hug)

[Lurkerinthemist]

If re-rolling creeps for rank farming is an issue then limiting the # of times a creep class can be created to once every 2 days would be a good deterrent. However, If players wait long enough before killing the same creep again DR doesn't kick in which gives no need to re-create the creeps.

Could build in DR - require rank to be earned UP and have it only affect the amount of renown/infamy you are worth, not the amount you earn. So a R0 reaver is worth 0. Have him actually have to kill a few toons to earn some renown before he is worth anything.

Just a thought.

Btw, what is considered rank farming? Is that like being on a captain + LM (same person) multi-boxing and grouped together but he keeps 1 parked in GV and PvPs with the other getting free points for the toon he doesn't play?

Or is it when 24 creeps raid together to kill 2 freeps in order to maximize the amount of total points received from those freeps?

I'd like to know what Turbine considers rank farming.

Absolutely perfect question. On my post back on page 1 I mentioned that a POLICY needs to be created that would include a definition. First Turbine needs to define what is and is not allowed, then worry about how they are going to identify the rule-breakers and finally what punitive system will be activated for the rule-breakers. But all of that is worthless with the policy and definition of What Is Rank Farming.

[Bzzzcat]

Why can't we mail more than one item? Please increase to at least two, thanks!

[Felathurin]

Something I posted some time ago on my server's pvmp thread that I thought would be worth repeating here, it got me 3 trolling lolpics as first responce there ^^ :

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...urelin/page122

Multi-boxing and third party software

Abstract: We should not be discussing multi-boxing with the people actually doing it, but with Turbine who seems to be holding double standards in words and actions. The issue of multi-boxing is being confused with using third party software. The game rules clearly state that using third party software is not allowed. What we are seeing with the multi-boxing issue is that a lot of people are actually using third party software to control their characters. In-game reports seem to be dismissed with no further action taken. The current outrage at Turbine over the inaction and lack of communication on this and related issues have prompted a response. Community manager Sapience stated that they “are looking at ways to track those who are taking advantage of this system” but “action is still a ways off”. It is important that we keep being vocal about this in direct address to Turbine and their community managers, urging them to swift action.


It is absolutely useless to keep debating the ethics of multi-boxing since it is clear neither side will be able to convince the other.

It is abundantly clear that multi-boxing detracts from the enjoyment experienced playing the game for most other people, with the obvious exception of the multi-boxers themselves. When it seems to me the only ones actually in favor of it are getting a kick out of seeing how their actions affect other people negatively. Maybe because they fail to make any kind of meaningful impact on others in face-to-face contact or for making some sort of point that eludes me. When people voice their irritations about it, either in-game or on the forums, the responses by those in favor of multi-boxing are often not meant to convince but to further irritate and provoke anger for their enjoyment. To try and keep this discussion going seems in that respect self-defeating and only fueling further resentment instead of motivating change.

The solution lies in my opinion with Turbine; by creating an atmosphere where fair-play and polite manners towards others should be the guidelines on which concrete rules are created and revised according to community feedback. Turbine however, being a company, has to make as high a profit as possible for their shareholders. They will usually choose for the path that 'seems' to be the one with the highest monetary gain. It is our duty to make them realize that they are actually degrading the attractiveness of their product by allowing this type of play-style. We should not be discussing this with the people actually doing the multi-boxing, but with Turbine who seems to be holding double standards as I will explain below.

As an entertainment product LoTRO relies upon having as many people as possible actually enjoying the game and respecting the developers for their effort, increasing the chance that they will spend money. Part of this enjoyment has to come from the interactions with other players. The other side of the coin is that player interaction can equally prevent or even ruin the enjoyment for some. A big part of this is only natural but as a company Turbine is aware of it as an influence on their profits. They create rules to discourage people from undertaking all too disruptive behavior, like for example:

(http://archive.lotro.com/support/1033-coc).

Many European players feel that Turbine does not act on these guidelines as strictly as they had become accustomed to after years of Codemasters’ in-game service. My own and others’ in-game reports have been closed with the standard replies. Offenders are still around the next day and it seems as if no action has been taken. Maybe there are good reasons why some of the particular reports do not get acted upon (like proof), but the impression remains that Turbine chooses for money instead of resolving the issues.

This looks to me like the continuation of a trend that started with the transition to Turbine, the introduction of the free-to-play model and the accompanying shop. People were promised in so many words that the game would not become ‘pay-to-win’ and that the shop would only offer ‘convenience’ instead of ‘advantage’. When later it seemed our definition of ‘convenience’ was getting stretched by Turbine and cries of outrage on the forums were mostly being ignored by community managers. By introducing more and more game-mechanics and items that left the shop as the only option to acquire them within a reasonable amount of time we have strangely grown accustomed to this duality of Turbine in words and deeds, and we have generally stopped holding them accountable for it.

When this frustration becomes intolerable many will simply give up, stop playing as many of the people I used to play with in the past have done. It seemed to us as if Turbine would do their own thing anyway and kept throwing us bones attached to fishing lines as with the 2 times promised new PvMP map that never came.

Now the official rules of the game clearly state that:


(http://archive.lotro.com/support/policies/218-eula).

What we are seeing with the multi-boxing issue is that a lot of people are actually using third party software to control their characters after Turbine announced on their forums that playing multiple accounts at once was not something they viewed as fundamentally wrong. They forgot to add that third party software is not allowed, either as an oversight or a conscious business choice, we will not know for sure. But it has led to the issue of multi-boxing and using third party software usually being confused.

At the moment the outrage at Turbine over the inaction and lack of communication on the issues of rank-farmers and multi-boxers in the Ettenmoors seems to have reached a tipping point:


(http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?508789-Sapience)

Prompting the ‘community managers’ to throw us another bone in an attempt to quell the unrest on their forums before (surprise) closing the thread:


(http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?508789-Sapience)

Most of the direct community responses were positive, maybe even too positive as Sapience quickly felt the need to ‘manage our expectations downward’:



So for Turbine there seems to be an awareness growing now that this kind of game-play is disturbing other peoples experience to an extent that it might hurt their profits. However as Sapience said: “action is still a ways off”. They obviously want to address the issue but at the same time keep it possible for people to play multiple accounts at once.

So multi-boxing OK, third party software NOT OK. This seems reasonable enough for me. Playing multiple accounts without the help of third party software reduces the attractiveness of doing it in situations where contact with other people is required (Raiding and PvMP etc.). I think people playing 6 spiders at once would quickly lose interest when only using the in-game mechanics, because it would simply not give as big an advantage as third party software does when fighting other players. Certain advantages like sharing quests, deeds and group-loot would remain but they are far less disruptive for other players. Even though personally I dislike this play-style it would be something I could live with. As long as I don’t have to see it I would grudgingly grant Turbine the income from these people. The real issue is then that Turbine does not act on their rule against third party software because “it is hard to proof”.

It is important that we keep being vocal about this, not against the multi-boxers themselves but in direct address to Turbine and their community managers. Whatever may seem an obvious instance of third party software use to us as users, the GM's might only be able to act on more concrete proof. If Turbine is not able to enforce their own rules then that is what we can hold against them. Keeping them accountable for their written rules and judging them on actions, not promises. We’ve got the ball rolling, we just have to keep kicking it forward.

[cuddlebears]

Keep getting losing connection to server-The game is loaded an play maybe half hour where that about screen locks up as in freezing up, you can not move, screen goes black an then all you see black screen an in the middle of the screen it says loss connection to server an below that it says quit.i love the game an a VIP member threw my husband , I also when I play the game,I also get in middle of game screen goes white locks up, when you go to the merchant to repair in any character im on I have 7 same white screen as in faded lotroclient.com not responding. thank you hope it can be fixed.thank you cuddlebears level83

[SavinDwarf]

One small update to the forums update question. I was just told the update will be delayed until after the July 4th Holiday. So look for it in early July now and not the end of June.

Some posters in these forums have said that the DDO and AC forums have already been updated. But when I lokked it seemed like they are on 4.2.0 (as opposed to 4.1.7 on the LOTRO forums). I was kind of hoping that the new release would be 5.0. and that would have explained the delays

can you share with us on this?

[Tasara]

Q2: How does the bug process work? (From reported to fixed)
A2: Step 1: Bug Entry
The majority of bugs are found by individual QA testers during the test cycle and are personally entered. Bugs are also reported by players on palantir, bullroarer, and live servers. Each bug is reviewed by the QA team and entered in to the database if it has not already been entered. Each bug, regardless of where it came from will receive a detailed analysis and writeup from the QA team before it reaches the developers. - Temerity

Step 2: Bug Triage
Producers and development leads review each bug to assign them out and prioritize them against all other work being done. This is the step where we decide whether the fix will need to be hotfixed, patched, or go out with the next major update. Fixing bugs in a hotfix or patch carries a higher cost than fixing in the next major update, so a cost/benefit analysis is key here.

Step 3: Bug Resolution
Developers will fix the bugs that are assigned to them.

Step 4: Bug Regression
QA double checks that the bug is fixed and that no new bugs were created in the process.

Step 5: Players Rejoice! – Temerity (para)(sorry, forums misbehaving ) THIS was very enlightening to me. I recently submitted a bug about a problem I'm having with just one of my toons at the suggestion of a GM who answered my ticket. It's not a bug that would be affecting the general player populace and against the backdrop of the entire LotRO game, it seems it would actually be rather insignificant, unless a number of players are experiencing the same problem and I have no way of judging that. However, since it affects one of my mains, it's huge to me. (para) My further question at this point is, how do I track where a bug is in this chain of events? Do I need to call support? Do I need to PM someone? Do I submit multiple bug reports? I'm very much at a loss on how to rectify this in-game problem for which the GM had no answer except put in a bug report. Any suggestions out there? Thank you in advance.

[Thoronthor]

Lately when I think about it there is only one answer that really needs to be answered, one question that creates all the others, one question to rule them all if you will.

Why, Turbine, why do you never finish anything you start?

Almost every system in the game is either half done, abandoned in its infancy or abandoned before polishing.
I'm not talking about bugs or half finished landscape etc.

Think about it folks, almost every system in the game, LIs, MC, Fellowship manouvers, Hobbies, Skirmishes, Festival token revamp, the list goes on.

This is the real problem with the game and everything else flows from it.

Lack of direction.

my 2 cents

[BotLike]

Thank you Turbine.

I really like this form of communication , and you've answered some critical questions , not just the ones that suit you :-)))

Looking forward for more!

PS.However , i have to say , this whole process for bug fixing justifies why things are so slow x)))))))))))) It all makes sense now!!

[Elrohasra]

Good stuff, can't wait to see whats new in beta this year.

[Drachenjager]

Moors sucks worse than buggy overpriced expansions . That said. The main reason i HATE moors is there is no leveling up there. IT should be start there at level 1 and play and level. AND as a newb to moors one should not have to die ever 2 seconds trying to figure out where he is and where he is supposed to go . There are quests there that many players never get to do because they have no groups to do them and they cant solo even easy quest because they get jumped ever few mins.

I have all but quit playing because the content sucks these days and gameplay is becoming too WOW ish. I HATE THAT &&&& STOP IT

And i am sick of F2P players whining about VIP get a life free loaders GEt a dang job and pay for the content . If you want it , pay for it your self. GHEESH this is not a commune.

[Drachenjager]

Lately when I think about it there is only one answer that really needs to be answered, one question that creates all the others, one question to rule them all if you will.

Why, Turbine, why do you never finish anything you start?

Almost every system in the game is either half done, abandoned in its infancy or abandoned before polishing.
I'm not talking about bugs or half finished landscape etc.

Think about it folks, almost every system in the game, LIs, MC, Fellowship manouvers, Hobbies, Skirmishes, Festival token revamp, the list goes on.

This is the real problem with the game and everything else flows from it.

Lack of direction.

my 2 cents

HERE HERE let me toss some extra cents in there. Buggy content. over priced expansions , screwing classes to make them worthless then making them way op ...I had a dang good guardian , 2 actually now they never play because they cant compete with a light armor class. I had a warden that was well balanced and worked well wiht guardians. Then the update came and he was all but useless. now way OP . Dang ever hear of moderation ? If there are going to be 2 tank classes make them tank pretty much equal in value Guards should not way outclass a warden as aa tank and vice versa. Also whats up wiht the dps classes dang. Why is my Cappy a dps monster on horseback and still pretty much useless dps on foot ? makes no sense at all .


The new content is almost a joke these days. The ToO instances were pretty hard but at least were fun and entertaining and took some time . The raids with RoR are too fast to do. actually the 3 12 mans could be put together and make 1 raid almost as much play time as a ToO wing lol

Not sure you guys will get any more money from me ... sorry to say I love Lotr but getting yo despise Lotro. Also think F2P should be eliminated

[Hildilas]

By the way, trash the LI-system altogether and 75% of these problems will vanish.

Nah not 75%...Maybe 25%. ^^ It's note like I don't like this system at ALL but right now it's very annoying and tedious. I remember reading sth..Before Moria..that this weapon should level WITH you etc pp..Now THAT would have been sth special and not just for lotro but for all MMOs. You would still need to change runes/relics and maybe Upgrade it (3rd 2nd 1st Age alternative) but it would not feel this "not special" anymore...*dreams*



Devs play the new Neverwinter MMO?^^ Well it's probably the best F2P MMO I've ever played (excluding Lotro of course ).


Nice Q&A. Thanks.

[Al.]

Nah not 75%...Maybe 25%. ^^ It's note like I don't like this system at ALL but right now it's very annoying and tedious. I remember reading sth..Before Moria..that this weapon should level WITH you etc pp..Now THAT would have been sth special and not just for lotro but for all MMOs. You would still need to change runes/relics and maybe Upgrade it (3rd 2nd 1st Age alternative) but it would not feel this "not special" anymore...*dreams*



Devs play the new Neverwinter MMO?^^ Well it's probably the best F2P MMO I've ever played (excluding Lotro of course ).


Nice Q&A. Thanks.

Yep Im of the idea LI should get a revamp even its 25% its a gain,its a vital system (weapons) if only the devs did it with next xpac.*dream*

Some people have thrown ideas for a revamp here:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?506191-Consider-Lowering-Your-Abnormal-Relic-Combination-Costs
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?510423-Are-you-happy-with-the-current-legendary-item-system

[Hurin]

You realize legacy swapping came AFTER free to play right?

That makes my point stronger. Not weaker.

All that we can't do is turn a minor into a major, and pick our passives (for LIs that have passive stats).

You say that as though such an observation obviates the need for the canceled "phase 2" of the LI revamp. . . as if the issues people have with the LI system has anything to do with such things.

But it's moot. They canceled phase 2.

The LI system as it currently exists is a cash cow for Turbine. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any substantial revisions to it now.

--H

[Razorlan]

My question would be whether there are plans to add the other half of Mirkwood, which we can see on the world maps but which is not currently in game, after the other Hobbit movies come out.

[Sapience]

Some posters in these forums have said that the DDO and AC forums have already been updated. But when I lokked it seemed like they are on 4.2.0 (as opposed to 4.1.7 on the LOTRO forums). I was kind of hoping that the new release would be 5.0. and that would have explained the delays

can you share with us on this?

It won't be 5.0 The delay is because none of our services use stock, off the shelf, copies of VB. There are integration issues and there is the need to make sure that previous modifications did not create problems for migrating data when we update. And, obviously, finding work arounds if there are any issues.

If re-rolling creeps for rank farming is an issue then limiting the # of times a creep class can be created to once every 2 days would be a good deterrent. However, If players wait long enough before killing the same creep again DR doesn't kick in which gives no need to re-create the creeps.

Btw, what is considered rank farming? Is that like being on a captain + LM (same person) multi-boxing and grouped together but he keeps 1 parked in GV and PvPs with the other getting free points for the toon he doesn't play?

Or is it when 24 creeps raid together to kill 2 freeps in order to maximize the amount of total points received from those freeps?

I'd like to know what Turbine considers rank farming.

And that is a large part of the ongoing discussion. You can begin to get an idea of how this isn't 'easy' or 'simple' just by the questions you are asking.

Can we have official Turbine answer to my questions from the quote above? Is the rank farming considered now a bannable offence? Are GM's instructed to act on obvious cases like the one from the quote above?

Until we come to a clear and accurate definition of Rank Farming and a clear and infallible way to identify (nothing posted in this thread to date qualifies) those who meet that definition, no.