Player Guide: Class Changes Summary: Captain

[Lohi]

It has been shown captains have lost significant parts of their flexibility, but if the minstrels can outperform us for both healing AND dps AT THE SAME TIME it's clear that there is at least some kind of balance issue between classes.

But how much healing and damage would they have done without any captain buffs?

Also, does it matter if we're out of balance?

[Elrantiri]

Lets see, how about a Minstrel can do 3691 DPS vs on level mobs in Bells of Dale AND maintain 2880 hps at the same time?

Admittedly all the melee DPS in this fight were unable to maintain real rotations due to target changing, but I think my point is pretty clear.

I wont even suggest my DPS is "top end", I'm curious as to what other captains are pulling vs on level instance boss mobs. But I would say minstrels beat us hands down at both DPS AND healing right now.

It has been shown captains have lost significant parts of their flexibility, but if the minstrels can outperform us for both healing AND dps AT THE SAME TIME it's clear that there is at least some kind of balance issue between classes.

The burg also maintained a better DPS than either captain, sadly the guardian chose not to post his combat analysis, but as he was tanking I have no idea if it was comparable.

EDIT:

The pet dps probably would have been higher, but surprise surprise, it died at least twice, and I may have not resummoned it straight away.

Well...

The bossfight in Bells of Dale has knockbacks and slows, has a good handful of adds near the boss more or less constantly and the boss becomes invulnerable quite often in the fight.

Who has the least disadvantage from knockbacks and slows? I'd say the Minstrel given the 30m+ range on most of the damage skills and can fire all healing skills from long range, where the Captain pretty much needs to be in melee range for everything except RC and WoC.
Who has most advantage of having adds near the boss (AoE)? I'd say the Minstrel given so many Minstrel damaging skills are AoE, not to forget Melody Coda that both hits a lot of targets and heals a good bit.
Who has the least disadvantage from boss invulnerability? I'd say the Minstrel, especially if the Captain tries to put bleeds on the boss. Putting bleeds on adds would not be that helpful given their low morale and avoiding to use bleeds is to ignore a lot of the Captains DPS capabilities.

To me, a lot of the difference between the Captain and Minstrel shown on your screenshot simply comes from the fight itself, it greatly favors ranged AoE a lot over melee single target.
Also, given how Captain's supply a lot of DPS to the group, I personally don't mind being the weakest DPS class on the DPS meter as long as our buffs make up for it - and I think they do make up for it.

[skoelrond]

Admittedly all the melee DPS in this fight were unable to maintain real rotations due to target changing, but I think my point is pretty clear.

I wont even suggest my DPS is "top end", I'm curious as to what other captains are pulling vs on level instance boss mobs. But I would say minstrels beat us hands down at both DPS AND healing right now.

Well first of all if you want to increase your dps in the red line it is an absolute MUST that you have the tactics legacy and the crit multiplier legacy and that you DO NOT repeatedly use BoE when cycling through your rotations and that you put enough ranks into the tactics legacy to increase its duration up to at least 11 seconds. This will give you a +30-45% crit multipler while you are in a battle hardened state and until you can cycle through another DB/PA rotation.

Now obvoiusly on this fight with knockbacks/target changing (whatever), melee dps will be at a disadvantage over ranged dps but it should help if you werent doing it.

Now also you said your pet died twice. That probably consumed some of your time to resummon. Use the melee healing skills legacy on your emblem and SB your pet to remedy that situation. Also, quite frankly, your major legacies for your emblem in the red line should be Crit Healing Mag, Melee Healing, and Sure Strike dmg (Vocal Healing optional). That is not only to keep your pet up but also to add the overall healing of the fellowship which is a hallmark of the captain class.

As far as the mini being top dps AND healing, yeah, thats a bit ridiculous.

[aardnebby]

Well first of all if you want to increase your dps in the red line it is an absolute MUST that you have the tactics legacy and the crit multiplier legacy and that you DO NOT repeatedly use BoE when cycling through your rotations and that you put enough ranks into the tactics legacy to increase its duration up to at least 11 seconds. This will give you a +30-45% crit multipler while you are in a battle hardened state and until you can cycle through another DB/PA rotation.

I'm running a level 95 2nd ager with maxed Crit multiplier, tlling mark damage, oathbreakers duration, and rank 8 to arms duration (not enough points even with them all tier 6 legacies to max more), one starlit crystal used. Got no points put into pressing attack/dev blow crit rating, BoE Damage and Inspire damage. I am following the rotations suggested on this very forum just a few posts back.

I have jumped through hoops for certain skeptics on this forum, I've posted my evidence as requested and I have yet to see ONE legit screenshot showing how great captain DPS is relatively speaking.

Now also you said your pet died twice. That probably consumed some of your time to resummon. Use the melee healing skills legacy on your emblem and SB your pet to remedy that situation. Also, quite frankly, your major legacies for your emblem in the red line should be Crit Healing Mag, Melee Healing, and Sure Strike dmg (Vocal Healing optional). That is not only to keep your pet up but also to add the overall healing of the fellowship which is a hallmark of the captain class.

Lol no, I blade brothered the hunter. You are right that the pet is a time waster though, which was actually one of my points way back. And my healing was basically irrelevant as shown by the next part.

As far as the mini being top dps AND healing, yeah, thats a bit ridiculous.

I quite agree. Which is basically what I have been saying all along, and all I get is hassle telling me just how great we are now! I am sure that guardians are not doing quite as well (I am sure they dont heal as much anyway) but I understand their DPS is pretty beefy. LMs have been crowing about their DPS for quite a while.

I feel that captains remain bottom tier DPS despite our loss of flexibility. Our healing is certainly significantly worse [EDIT - I mean while in DPS traits]. So prove me wrong. Bring out some screenshots of parses where captains rock sustained (2 minutes+) 4-5k DPS. I'd love to see it. I'll admit I am wrong, I'll apologise for wasting peoples time, whatever.

But two points.
1. DPS has to be vs on level mobs. Sure I can pull massive DPS by popping a level 50 scaling instance raid and just beating on barz or whatever for a few minutes when he is 45 levels lower. Hell, DPS practically doubles against a mob 5 or 10 levels lower. So no underlevel rubbish.
2. to the guy who says "does it matter if we are out of balance" if you don't care, why even bother posting? It doesnt matter if you just want to RP in bree sure. If, however, you want to see the return of challenging content, where each class needs to contribute to earn a place in a raid, then yes, actually it does matter.

[skoelrond]

I'm running a level 95 2nd ager with maxed Crit multiplier, tlling mark damage, oathbreakers duration, and rank 8 to arms duration (not enough points even with them all tier 6 legacies to max more), one starlit crystal used. Got no points put into pressing attack/dev blow crit rating, BoE Damage and Inspire damage. I am following the rotations suggested on this very forum just a few posts back.

No mention of using the tactics legacies and leaving BoE out of your rotation to maintain the +40% crit multiplier in a battle hardened state.

But please dont mistake me for what I'm saying. I do think red line cappys need a bit more boost. All I'm saying that if someone isnt playing a dps cappy as intended then obviously the dps is going to be less than expected.

With any trait line there is a few "must have" and "must do" and the tactics legacy with at least up to 11 seconds duration and leaving BoE out of the rotation except for once every 30 seconds, Is a must have and must do in order to have sustained dps (in my opinion).

[Elrantiri]

I feel that captains remain bottom tier DPS despite our loss of flexibility.

Again, who should be dealing less DPS than Captains and why? If Captains were dealing more damage than class X + having to consider the buffs we do while DPS'ing, that class X wouldn't get a DPS spot, the group would grab another LtC Captain or some other class that outDPS Captains and class X.
You're also doing what you can to skewer the comparison given you're comparing your own DPS to a Minstrel that is boosted by your buffs - and your buffs do well to boost both damage AND healing. The overall DPS in the group had surely been lower if you'd been replaced by another DPS minstrel, and possibly the healing too.

Our healing is certainly significantly worse [EDIT - I mean while in DPS traits].

Which was about time. LtC Captains were mainhealing 6 man instances without a sweat. LtC Captain healing was the only aspect RockX directly commented as being overpowered in the Beta thread.

So prove me wrong. Bring out some screenshots of parses where captains rock sustained (2 minutes+) 4-5k DPS. I'd love to see it. I'll admit I am wrong, I'll apologise for wasting peoples time, whatever.

And why exactly is 4-5k 'the magic number' you're looking for? You have yet to show us other classes doing that amount of DPS. Given how Captains are largely single-target DPS, it'd be nice to see other classes output that kind of DPS on 1 target so the Captain is compared on equal ground, especially given how many bossfights are singletarget.

[Almagnus1]

In that screen shot, you show DPS for everything except the hunter and the guard.

I would be most interestes in their numbers for that fight.

Going by what the burg did, we aren't that far off of his DPS.

[ssslippy]

Lets see, how about a Minstrel can do 3691 DPS vs on level mobs in Bells of Dale AND maintain 2880 hps at the same time?

Admittedly all the melee DPS in this fight were unable to maintain real rotations due to target changing, but I think my point is pretty clear.

I wont even suggest my DPS is "top end", I'm curious as to what other captains are pulling vs on level instance boss mobs. But I would say minstrels beat us hands down at both DPS AND healing right now.

It has been shown captains have lost significant parts of their flexibility, but if the minstrels can outperform us for both healing AND dps AT THE SAME TIME it's clear that there is at least some kind of balance issue between classes.

The burg also maintained a better DPS than either captain, sadly the guardian chose not to post his combat analysis, but as he was tanking I have no idea if it was comparable.

EDIT:

The pet dps probably would have been higher, but surprise surprise, it died at least twice, and I may have not resummoned it straight away.

Your point is far from clear on this. Not only as stated by others this fight is not melee friendly you are not account for the damage you add the others. Lets take from the Minstrel their dps and add it to yours. Minstel loses 369DPS due to telling mark. Lets assume you had a pet out thats another 2% damage at 73.86 DPS. The minstel now did 3248.94 DPS and you account for 2836.16 DPS. Now this does not include the damage boost from your tactic, blade of elendil damage, standard of war, IDOME, oatherbreaks, and your to arms skill. If you were to calculate this based on the whole group you are easily the highest dps contribution to this group. You bring more damage to the group then any other damage based class in the game. Also on the minstrels healing you also boost his tactical so some of his heal counts towards you also.


The one part I will agree on is the pet survive ability is low right now and a big part of that is our pets are missing the armor boost right now. However this has been stated they are looking at a way to integrate this back. I personally think they should just boost the base armor of the pet by X amount and call it a day.

[Elrantiri]

Your point is far from clear on this. Not only as stated by others this fight is not melee friendly you are not account for the damage you add the others. Lets take from the Minstrel their dps and add it to yours. Minstel loses 369DPS due to telling mark. Lets assume you had a pet out thats another 2% damage at 73.86 DPS. The minstel now did 3248.94 DPS and you account for 2836.16 DPS. Now this does not include the damage boost from your tactic, blade of elendil damage, standard of war, IDOME, oatherbreaks, and your to arms skill. If you were to calculate this based on the whole group you are easily the highest dps contribution to this group. You bring more damage to the group then any other damage based class in the game. Also on the minstrels healing you also boost his tactical so some of his heal counts towards you also.


The one part I will agree on is the pet survive ability is low right now and a big part of that is our pets are missing the armor boost right now. However this has been stated they are looking at a way to integrate this back. I personally think they should just boost the base armor of the pet by X amount and call it a day.

I agree on most, but Telling Mark does not account for anything near 10% of the Minstrels dps in there. Telling is only singletarget and it is very much a multitarget fight.

[ssslippy]

I agree on most, but Telling Mark does not account for anything near 10% of the Minstrels dps in there. Telling is only singletarget and it is very much a multitarget fight.

That is very true I did not think of that.

[toom87]

I agree on most, but Telling Mark does not account for anything near 10% of the Minstrels dps in there. Telling is only singletarget and it is very much a multitarget fight.

I haven't done much with Combat Analysis, but based on that screenshot, that parse is just for Tabi-kohin, the boss, so I'd expect the full 10% to be valid as well as another ~10% if war banner was fully traited and thrown as soon as it was off CD (20% for 30s with 1min CD irrc). And like was said, if to arms was giving bonus to the full fellowship that should be another +x% but I don't know the numbers.

If the argument is that Captains don't bring enough dps to the group, I'd say that we were always a top contributor to group dps and still are, probably more-so given the banner changes and skill additions. If we're talking solo dps then maybe we're still bottom (but like someone said, if not captain, who should be at the bottom?), but given how much morale solo content has I don't know that it's relevant.

If the point is you have a red-captain already and you want to decide to fill the second dps slot then you would never pick a second red-captain over another dps class like hunter or champ because there are diminishing returns on the number of captains. But personally I like diversity in the fellowship so having more than one of any given class doesn't suit me.

[Elrantiri]

I haven't done much with Combat Analysis, but based on that screenshot, that parse is just for Tabi-kohin, the boss, so I'd expect the full 10% to be valid as well as another ~10% if war banner was fully traited and thrown as soon as it was off CD (20% for 30s with 1min CD irrc). And like was said, if to arms was giving bonus to the full fellowship that should be another +x% but I don't know the numbers.

Combat Analysis names each parse after the first mob you hit. If you look at Ardens Combat Analysis, you'll see two drop-down menus, the first one shows named of first mob hit + (time of attack start) and the other one says 'Totals'. 'Totals' shows DPS for all mobs hit during the parse, and you can then click on 'Totals' and select a mob if you only want DPS for that specific mob.

Even for one target you sorta cannot just substract Telling Mark by substracting 10% again. If I do 1000 DPS on a target without Telling mark, I will be doing 1100 with Telling mark. However, 1100 -10% is 990, not 1000.

[toom87]

Combat Analysis names each parse after the first mob you hit. If you look at Ardens Combat Analysis, you'll see two drop-down menus, the first one shows named of first mob hit + (time of attack start) and the other one says 'Totals'. 'Totals' shows DPS for all mobs hit during the parse, and you can then click on 'Totals' and select a mob if you only want DPS for that specific mob.

Even for one target you sorta cannot just substract Telling Mark by substracting 10% again. If I do 1000 DPS on a target without Telling mark, I will be doing 1100 with Telling mark. However, 1100 -10% is 990, not 1000.

I see. And the math gets even fuzzier with the to arms / banner skill since that's adding to their mastery which differs quite a bit among people. And then calculating the average damage you're providing for the minstrel based on the crit chance your buffs add is worse still.

[Almagnus1]

I see. And the math gets even fuzzier with the to arms / banner skill since that's adding to their mastery which differs quite a bit among people. And then calculating the average damage you're providing for the minstrel based on the crit chance your buffs add is worse still.

Yep, and that's why knowing stats + LI loadout + item set bonuses are so crucial.

Edit:
It's also why having a standard target that everyone use is crucial - as it gives a common frame of reference.

[Almagnus1]

Just had a tour of some of the other class forums...

Methinks we're getting a DPS normalization patch soonish.

[Elrantiri]

Just had a tour of some of the other class forums...

Methinks we're getting a DPS normalization patch soonish.

Something needs to happen at least. So far Helms Deep feels more like Open Beta than Release.

[dietlbomb]

Just had a tour of some of the other class forums...

Methinks we're getting a DPS normalization patch soonish.

Something needs to happen at least. So far Helms Deep feels more like Open Beta than Release.

Which is why I find this debate about dps to be somewhat pointless. It's good for the devs to have an idea about how to balance things, but dps is so broken I doubt what we say can be of much use to them.

The real issue is how boring the class is to play right now. We need more ability to make meaningful decisions during combat.

[Almagnus1]

Which is why I find this debate about dps to be somewhat pointless. It's good for the devs to have an idea about how to balance things, but dps is so broken I doubt what we say can be of much use to them.

The real issue is how boring the class is to play right now. We need more ability to make meaningful decisions during combat.

I'm hoping that part 2 of what RockX was working on comes to fruition - which should help to alleviate some of these issues.

Back to the DPS subject, go check out the champ forums. I think we might actually be out DPSing them for the moment.

That is CLEARLY not right.

Edit:
Champs are parsing against the Turtle at 95.... maybe we just found our parsing target....

[aardnebby]

Again, who should be dealing less DPS than Captains and why? If Captains were dealing more damage than class X + having to consider the buffs we do while DPS'ing, that class X wouldn't get a DPS spot, the group would grab another LtC Captain or some other class that outDPS Captains and class X.

DPS classes should do top (hunter, champ, RK). Then the other classes should be at least reasonably comparable. Given the nerf to our flexibility (our core class advantage if you will), our dps should be very competitive against classes that have a "core" function like healing, tanking, CC etc.

You're also doing what you can to skewer the comparison given you're comparing your own DPS to a Minstrel that is boosted by your buffs - and your buffs do well to boost both damage AND healing. The overall DPS in the group had surely been lower if you'd been replaced by another DPS minstrel, and possibly the healing too.

I have screenshots of a burg doing 4.5k dps, I have already posted screenshots of crazy minstrel antics. You have yet to post a single screenshot. Guess you can't back up your comments.

And why exactly is 4-5k 'the magic number' you're looking for? You have yet to show us other classes doing that amount of DPS. Given how Captains are largely single-target DPS, it'd be nice to see other classes output that kind of DPS on 1 target so the Captain is compared on equal ground, especially given how many bossfights are singletarget.

I've actually got a screenshot from last night of a burg with 4.6k dps vs Authdurgal in Strike against Dannenglor (raid size). I have other skirm raid screenshots of the same burg doing OVER 9000 (lol) dps, but considering thats the Pony and the boss gets incoming damage debuffs when you kill his wolves I discounted that.

But since no one has posted any screenshots of their mad DPS proving how I'm all talk, I can't be bothered.

In that screen shot, you show DPS for everything except the hunter and the guard.

I would be most interestes in their numbers for that fight.

Going by what the burg did, we aren't that far off of his DPS.

I agree but unfortunately either they werent running combat analysis or declined to post it. *shrugs* Honestly, I dont think we should be competing with specialist DPS classes like the hunter, and the guard was tank spec'd anyway. As for the burg, he wasn't pushing the DPS, he was doing other stuff. See my earlier comments on this post about his skraid DPS.

Just had a tour of some of the other class forums...

Methinks we're getting a DPS normalization patch soonish.

Fantastic. Maybe things will be better after that. RE your comments on the champion, I totally agree. If our dps is poor, theirs is a disaster (based on 2nd hand evidence ofc). In fact this kind of proves my point in the beta thread that the DPS balancing was almost an afterthought. It wasn't even discussed until what, beta 3? Yes this expansion feels like beta, because of things like this and things like our banner/herald armour merge not being ready in time.

A classic example of marketing/upper management setting a release date even though the product is not ready, to make the christmas rush or whatever. Of course based on previous expansions no one should really be surprised about this.

Anyway, IF there is going to be a DPS normalization patch then I'll shut up until I have post-patch figures. But there is no evidence of this yet. I live in hope however.

[Elrantiri]

DPS classes should do top (hunter, champ, RK). Then the other classes should be at least reasonably comparable. Given the nerf to our flexibility (our core class advantage if you will), our dps should be very competitive against classes that have a "core" function like healing, tanking, CC etc.

Why is Burglar not part of those DPS classes? When it comes to hitting 1 target for a longer duration the Burglar excels. Erebor raid doesn't reward extra DPS like ToO does (on the very other hand it punishes too high DPS), but in ToO Burglars were often a big advantage as they could push the 4-5k mark even at lvl 75. A lot of that DPS ofc came from stacking marks, but even without those their DPS on 1 target is really good, especially if they used the Unseen armor set.
And even on your screenshot the DPS is comparable. As you said "the burg was not pushing DPS he was doing other stuff" and the very same thing applies to Captains. Captains have a set of skills to use where damage is either secondary or non-existent in order to buff himself and his group.

I have screenshots of a burg doing 4.5k dps, I have already posted screenshots of crazy minstrel antics. You have yet to post a single screenshot. Guess you can't back up your comments.

As written above, I don't see why we should be compared to Burglars, to me they're just as much top DPS as hunter, champ and RKs are.
I posted a video (which beats screenshots as it shows everything that took place during the parse) with a parse on a mob that everyone else @ 85-95 can easily replicate for comparison. Your screenshot is from a boss fight where your buffing has a direct effect on their DPS and is therefore much harder if not impossible to really replicate.

But since no one has posted any screenshots of their mad DPS proving how I'm all talk, I can't be bothered.

I think you're the only one here expecting 'mad dps' from Captains. I'm perfectly happy with doing less DPS than the other classes when our buffs are as powerful as they currently are. If we were doing more DPS than any other class that class should IMO have a boost or we should have a nerf.

[aardnebby]

Why is Burglar not part of those DPS classes? When it comes to hitting 1 target for a longer duration the Burglar excels. Erebor raid doesn't reward extra DPS like ToO does (on the very other hand it punishes too high DPS), but in ToO Burglars were often a big advantage as they could push the 4-5k mark even at lvl 75. A lot of that DPS ofc came from stacking marks, but even without those their DPS on 1 target is really good, especially if they used the Unseen armor set.

Maybe because the burgler is actually the closest of all the classes to us. We buff, they debuff. If you look at the lotro class summary, we are both listed as "support" (along with LM), while guardian and warden are listed as "defense". Champions and hunters are listed as "Damage". Entertainingly, it seems now both Minstrels AND runekeepers are listed as "Damage/Healer". So I guess the minstrel uber DPS is WAI.

And even on your screenshot the DPS is comparable. As you said "the burg was not pushing DPS he was doing other stuff" and the very same thing applies to Captains. Captains have a set of skills to use where damage is either secondary or non-existent in order to buff himself and his group.

By other stuff, I mean I think he was running for the shadow rats, rather than fighting.

I posted a video (which beats screenshots as it shows everything that took place during the parse) with a parse on a mob that everyone else @ 85-95 can easily replicate for comparison. Your screenshot is from a boss fight where your buffing has a direct effect on their DPS and is therefore much harder if not impossible to really replicate.

A video involving a fight with an underleveled mob, and therefore completely impossible to compare with on-level dps, yes yes very nice. I mentioned it was irrelevant already unless everyone is using the same measuring stick. Of course I could just also accuse you of trying to misrepresent the details by picking an example that clearly favours your point of view, as you have done to me.

I think you're the only one here expecting 'mad dps' from Captains. I'm perfectly happy with doing less DPS than the other classes when our buffs are as powerful as they currently are. If we were doing more DPS than any other class that class should IMO have a boost or we should have a nerf.

Maybe I misread the dev diary where it said we would do "heavy burst dps". But doesnt that mean guardians should be nerfed because they are so survivable? Loremasters because they have such great CC? Burgs for their debuffs? I'm glad to hear you believe we should have bottom tier DPS, because it reveals the agenda behind your whole "our dps is fine" stance.

[Almagnus1]

While we wait for Turbine to do whatever they are going to do, why not parse agaist the turlte [in Moria] so we have some baseline mob that can be used to figure out where the meleeDPS stand?

[auximenes]

The one part I will agree on is the pet survive ability is low right now and a big part of that is our pets are missing the armor boost right now. However this has been stated they are looking at a way to integrate this back. I personally think they should just boost the base armor of the pet by X amount and call it a day.

Since adding another equipment slot is not practical, how about making toggle skills to cover the various Herald possibilities? I think going this route in addition to applying a blanket addition to Herald defenses would be ideal.

[Elrantiri]

Maybe because the burgler is actually the closest of all the classes to us. We buff, they debuff. If you look at the lotro class summary, we are both listed as "support" (along with LM), while guardian and warden are listed as "defense". Champions and hunters are listed as "Damage". Entertainingly, it seems now both Minstrels AND runekeepers are listed as "Damage/Healer". So I guess the minstrel uber DPS is WAI.

...
Maybe I misread the dev diary where it said we would do "heavy burst dps". But doesnt that mean guardians should be nerfed because they are so survivable? Loremasters because they have such great CC? Burgs for their debuffs? I'm glad to hear you believe we should have bottom tier DPS, because it reveals the agenda behind your whole "our dps is fine" stance.

Well, if you're going to be that nitpicking about dev diaries take a look at the Burglar one. Unlike Captains, it specifies "massive burst damage" rather than "heavy burst damage" and to my knowledge massive is of higher order than heavy ( http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...sive?q=massive ), so with that logic Burglars should do more burst damage than us.
The dev diary also does not specify heavy burst dps, it specifies heavy burst damage so you probably did misread it. Having high burst damage is not equal to having high DPS so your "Bring out some screenshots of parses where captains rock sustained (2 minutes+) 4-5k DPS" doesn't really have anything to do with the description in Dev Diary.

By other stuff, I mean I think he was running for the shadow rats, rather than fighting.

If only you had a Hunter for that.

A video involving a fight with an underleveled mob, and therefore completely impossible to compare with on-level dps, yes yes very nice. I mentioned it was irrelevant already unless everyone is using the same measuring stick. Of course I could just also accuse you of trying to misrepresent the details by picking an example that clearly favours your point of view, as you have done to me.

Of course it's not for comparing with on-level DPS, but if you want to compare Captains with other class this 'raid' mob have some advantages. The lvl 89 'raid' mob work well as replacement Dummies as they have high morale, no special mechanics and deal low damage - and unlike the dummies, these bosses will not be resetting bleeds and debuffs every 10-20 seconds. So by getting other classes to have a go at the same mob, you'll have parses from single target fights with pretty much zero interruptions or mechanics to handle so all focus is on maximizing DPS.
If you can find a on-level mob with the same characteristics I'll go and test DPS on that mob.

EDIT: Also, I'd still like to see your proof behind this quote:

Spent today comparing parses with members of my raidgroup (including other captains). Minstrels, Guardians and Loremasters out DPS us by practically an order of magnitude.

Your screenshot from Bells of Dale, despite the advantages of being ranged AoE, doesn't show Minstrels anywhere near "out DPS us by practically an order of magnitude".

[Lohi]

Maybe because the burgler is actually the closest of all the classes to us.

When the game was new, Burglar was not the DPS monster it is today, it definitely was primarily a support class first. And this actually disappointed some people who came from other games expecting a pure rogue clone (or rouge clone). Actually a lot of players from other games were uncertain about all the support classes because they wanted stuff with big damage numbers. I always played my burglar in mischief stance, solo or group.

As for captain flexibility I don't think we really lost it. It's diminished but not gone. Before we could be flexible between roles as a 7/6/3 perhaps, but now we're 7/4/2. It was never intended that we should trait for damage dealing but still be able to good healer just from 2 off traits. The 6 second rallying cry felt like just a silly trick.