Player Guide: Class Changes Summary: Minstrel

[jennirich]

Thanks for the summery on this. I have a couple questions,

In the redline tree, is there a crit rating buff and call magnitude buff for the red line like the current capstone for War Speech?
Is there a +crit chance to stun for Piercing Cry (red tree)?

Did I read that right, the minstrel fear skill is being removed (Call of Earendil)?

[Wiser]

In the redline tree, is there a crit rating buff and call magnitude buff for the red line like the current capstone for War Speech?

If you mean something like the Call of War legendary trait then it no longer exists. However, you can put points to increase damage & crit on the cry & calls in 1 & t2 traits. Crit magnitude is t6 set bonus Fierce Cries (Checked the red line bonus)

Is there a +crit chance to stun for Piercing Cry (red tree)?

It is 1(or 2 for off-spec) point for +30% crit chance of Piercing Cry AND getting the stun at red t1 trait.

Did I read that right, the minstrel fear skill is being removed (Call of Earendil)?

Call of Earendil is not our fear skill, it is the "Harmony(live)" version of Call of Orome. Our fear Invocation of Elbereth is still there as a general skill. However, we lost our daze skill.

[55555]

However, we lost our daze skill.

Which skill are you referencing? Song of Distraction, Song of Subdual - sorry if this is obvious lol. I use both of them but Distraction is pretty key for me when soloing.

Thanks to the OP for the info - it's appreciated. I am not looking forward to yet another round of learning how to heal as a minnie and I'm starting to dread expansions because they've become linked in my head with Let's Change the Minstrel!

Part of me was hoping they would come to their senses and undo the Isengard revamp. I dearly miss the old system as it used to allow me to setup my skills, traits, and gear to really get involved in endgame raid/group healing. The current system has something still amiss with the timers and I spend a dismal amount of time just waiting for a cooldown to end in the midst of a fight. Add in the you can't use this skill till you aggro something rule and I really really miss the original minnie setup.

I hope at least in the new system the cooldowns and timers can at least be juggled into a build that will allow for some fun. Otherwise this change will just mean once more - ONCE AGAIN - building/changing/grinding gear and traits.

[Apache140]

Some other notable mentions:

Negatives:

• Cry of the Wizards cooldown increased to 1 min and only available in red line.

• HoT removed from Cry of the Valar.

• HoT only available for Chord of Salvation in blue line.

• Anthem of the Free People and coda HoT removed.

• Gift of the Hammerhand HoT removed.

• Call of the Second Age CD increased to 40s.

• Anthem of Compassion removed.

• Anthem of War no longer combat permanent.

• Song of Aid (only available in yellow) decreased to 10s.

• ***Heal Stance Cry of Chorus gives perfect ballads and Neutral Stance gives major ballads.

• Cannot switch books in combat, but can switch weapons in combat.

• ***Icon for Resonance (heal) stance and Melody (neutral) is the exact same.

• Legend of Helm Hammerhand (blue line capstone) magnitude is less than Song of the Hammerhand and is on a 2min CD.

• Spirit of Freedom grants no immunity tail effect.

• Graceful Demeanor (trait that improves your rezzed target's Morale/Power) is removed and no longer available in the trees.

• Enduring Morale 10% chance to unlock a heal to be used on an ally has been removed.

• Tales removed and only available in yellow line.

Positives:

• Still as Death CD with legacy is 30s.

• Triumphant Spirit CD with legacy is 45s.

• ***Coda of Resonance (previously Coda of Vigour) has a -800% incoming damage buff for 12 seconds.

• Rally! CD with legacy is 2m 30s.

• Chord of Salvation initial heal in blue line has nearly doubled.

• ***Call to Ioreth (new skill in blue line that makes next heal crit) ensures that all HoTs following a heal with a HoT (Chord/FH) crit as well.

*** Things fixed as of Beta 5.1. Coda of Resonance incoming damage reduction buff decreased to 10%.

[Gillmour]

Seems as though the CD's have become rediculous. The incredibly short CD's for flop and triumphant when traited seem excessive, while I'd much rather have the 30sec CD on wizards, even if it was only 3 targets. Interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Atheling]

Seems as though the CD's have become rediculous. The incredibly short CD's for flop and triumphant when traited seem excessive, while I'd much rather have the 30sec CD on wizards, even if it was only 3 targets. Interesting to see how it all plays out.

TS cd issue is one frequently commented on. Personally, I've been bugging it every beta build. The ground targeting of Wizards is another issue. Ground target a skill with a range barely above melee range (5m). Yeah.

[Apache140]

TS cd issue is one frequently commented on. Personally, I've been bugging it every beta build. The ground targeting of Wizards is another issue. Ground target a skill with a range barely above melee range (5m). Yeah.

Wizards is no longer a ground target skill.

[Atheling]

Wizards is no longer a ground target skill.

Brilliant. Missed that one. Thanks for correction

[nightday]

Wait wait wait, Rally! is a general skill again?? For realsies? That would be SUPER AWESOME. I haven't been able to check since my build of Bullroarer got eaten by the refresh monkeys, but that's one of the things I was very much angry about. Now if only they would fix the DPS and give us back some HoTs...

EDIT: Okay, I got a new copy of Bullroarer and logged on. Rally is still locked to WoS

[Darlgon]

Nice write up Bohba..easy to understand for my MiniHobbit who never left Moria because he does a lot of crafting. However.. no one has picked on you yet for your links in the main post for Warrior Scald and Watcher being backwards? Shame.

[Equendil]

so if your traiting yellow for dps your probably going the wrong way, unless you want to buff your groups dps, in which case your probably doing the right thing. the line looks very good at being a kinda weird captain, healing while damaging. with the trait Change of Pace you can get garenteed crits to dps skills when you heal and crits to heals while you dps. so your actually rewarded with dps when you heal... weird... you can get some sweet aoe with coda with using this ofc.

speccing yellow but traiting red and staying is dissonance might sound insane, but you will still be able to buff your groups dps and have call of orome to use every 10s. you'll also be able to use call of the second age a lot more, maybe even enough to constantly keep up it's group buffs (need to test that!). with anthems that can stack, you *might* be able to get close to a garenteed critical on your coda using anthem of war too.

Right. Obviously you don't trait yellow for damage, but the *stance* has to provide at least a modicum of damage to justify its (intended) existence, otherwise you may as well go into heal stance. Didn't quite understand that you could use Call of Orome or Call of the Second Age in other stances than red so that's interesting at least, but can't you do pretty much what you've described above in heal stance though ? Yellow spec, red traits, heal stance ?

I have never been a fan of the yellow stance, it was lacking, but with these new changes it sounds to me it's gone from lacking to pointless. Did I miss something important there ?

Edit: of course the stance could offer other things than damage to justify its existence, but that doesn't really seem to be the case either, still the same awful anthem of the third age.

PS: thanks for all the information by the way, much appreciated.

[Atheling]

The intention is for it to be a buffing line. We asked for clarification on what it was. And that seems to be the answer. Depending on where the numbers end up at, it may well justify a place in a 12 man just on that basis, alongside the 'fringe' benefits of heals or dps.

edit: and yeah, there's a bit of a disconnect between stances and trait trees in some ways. How and if that is eventually resolved, I don't know either

[Calta]

Wait wait wait, Rally! is a general skill again?? For realsies? That would be SUPER AWESOME. I haven't been able to check since my build of Bullroarer got eaten by the refresh monkeys, but that's one of the things I was very much angry about. Now if only they would fix the DPS and give us back some HoTs...

Rally wasn't general, last time i looked-on sunday in beta 5. It was gated high in heals spec/blue. no specifics were given by developer on changes so if this changed it did it yesterday with no announcement to testers-and the only reference is here.

apache's skill summary is an acccurate list as any available, on how we actaually are now in beta according to my experience.

BTW: the aoe ground effect on anthem of wizards was removed when most classes similar ground effects were removed due to unplayability and the other class feedback was heeded-you had to stop, and detarget the enemy to place the effect-not good for a kiting fighting on the move classes. so even that was not a class specific fix but a mechanics fix, so we got lucky.

Oh and yes, are these bugs or wai? In addition to apache's list:
we got orome back with a ranged corruption removal that removes corruptions from fellows but hasn't done so on any mobs i tested it on immediately after it was changed-yes, ./bugged.
Noble cause is an effect in coda for a skill that no longer exists.
There are also bugs with the melody PC effects, in general, the chance to stun effect seems erratic still,
The skill that increases the chance to crit, seem to 'increase' crit to 10% or less, not the 30% in the tooltip. Confirmed by several players.

All of which may have been fixed sinced last weekend to work as described in the guide/tooltips ..... I honestly cannot be bothered checking anymore- it sems an exercise in futility.

[bohbashum]

EDIT: Okay, I got a new copy of Bullroarer and logged on. Rally is still locked to WoS

it's not. ok I know it looks that way but check your skill panal :P the trait is void now, thats why I've removed it from my guide. we'll have to wait and see what replaces it.

Rally wasn't general, last time i looked-on sunday in beta 5. It was gated high in heals spec/blue.

again I promise it's not. the trait there is still there but the skill is in your skill panal.

here's a screenshot to prove it. notice I'm specced yellow and traited down yellow with not a single point in blue. the skill does not have a gating on it anymore at all.

[bohbashum]

The intention is for it to be a buffing line. We asked for clarification on what it was. And that seems to be the answer. Depending on where the numbers end up at, it may well justify a place in a 12 man just on that basis, alongside the 'fringe' benefits of heals or dps.

edit: and yeah, there's a bit of a disconnect between stances and trait trees in some ways. How and if that is eventually resolved, I don't know either

imo it's the minstrel captain. you do dps and aoe heal. differance being the minstrel aoe dps's too and supports very well still. only big downside is not power healing (unless you counter the capstone).

I actually think it's a more viable line than blue because of it's ability to do a bit of everything. in 6mans it'd be a great healer while supporting dps to do the run quick. in raids if you've got a main main healer the yellow minstrel along with a captain will pump out some extreme buffs for the group.

[nightday]

it's not. ok I know it looks that way but check your skill panal :P the trait is void now, thats why I've removed it from my guide. we'll have to wait and see what replaces it.


again I promise it's not. the trait there is still there but the skill is in your skill panal.

here's a screenshot to prove it. notice I'm specced yellow and traited down yellow with not a single point in blue. the skill does not have a gating on it anymore at all.

That's strange. I logged on again to check and when I trait anything but deep blue, rally doesn't show up in my skill list at all (it's not greyed out; it's just not there). I am moderately confused now.

[bohbashum]

*** Things fixed as of Beta 5.1. Coda of Resonance incoming damage reduction buff decreased to 10%.

new yellow spec passive (might be bug but cool non the less) - using a coda does not remove anthems

Call of orome is usable all stances.

+10% out-going healing in resonance (it also havea blue icon now)

+12.5% ballad damage and +5% out-going healing in melody

+5m passive in red line is effecting ALL skills (yes, 45m fear and 30m healing skills

huge dps balance changing (you can crit 10k with call to fate now)

many traits updated in red line (I have updated the OP to express a few).

[Atheling]

imo it's the minstrel captain. you do dps and aoe heal. differance being the minstrel aoe dps's too and supports very well still. only big downside is not power healing (unless you counter the capstone).

I actually think it's a more viable line than blue because of it's ability to do a bit of everything. in 6mans it'd be a great healer while supporting dps to do the run quick. in raids if you've got a main main healer the yellow minstrel along with a captain will pump out some extreme buffs for the group.

That does seem where it is heading now, yeah. There may be some interesting hybrid options with it too, but just wary about what can change between now and live, and then between live and 12.1 etc. It's all in a bit of flux still really and I'm guessing next build will be the one heading to live, assuming no server breaking bugs are found. In some ways, it should wash out very similar to how many use harmony now but with a few things stripped out. Anthem of the Third Age remains something which sticks out right now. So I'd imagine the 'ongoing conversation' may well be a long one.

[bohbashum]

That's strange. I logged on again to check and when I trait anything but deep blue, rally doesn't show up in my skill list at all (it's not greyed out; it's just not there). I am moderately confused now.

hmmmm.... I started a new minstrel wondering if I was wrong, he didn't have it

I think I've just uncovered a bug so maybe rally is gated in the line. I will be adding it to the guide but I will bug it.

EDIT: even weirder I log back onto my main mini and he doesn't have it now XD skill has the lock. weird!!! honestly I'm not trolling you before that screenshot was taken just over an hour ago lol

[nightday]

hmmmm.... I started a new minstrel wondering if I was wrong, he didn't have it

I think I've just uncovered a bug so maybe rally is gated in the line. I will be adding it to the guide but I will bug it.

EDIT: even weirder I log back onto my main mini and he doesn't have it now XD skill has the lock. weird!!! honestly I'm not trolling you before that screenshot was taken just over an hour ago lol

Haha, I believe you! I just really hope the dev heeds the call of every single minstrel to put it as a general skill. I do like the new DPS now; I was killing mobs like nobody's business. Makes up for the loss of a load of HoTs, at least.

PS: Should've mentioned this earlier, but thanks for compiling this guide! It's got loads of good information and I like the way you organized it

[Astars]

Rally shows up for me, and works, no matter what the traits I use. I have Rally on Live, don't know if that makes a difference.



See you all in Middle Earth.

[bohbashum]

I do like the new DPS now; I was killing mobs like nobody's business. Makes up for the loss of a load of HoTs, at least.

PS: Should've mentioned this earlier, but thanks for compiling this guide! It's got loads of good information and I like the way you organized it

yeah I'm really liking the dps. I think once the trait "freedom" starts to work I don't think people will mind too much about the loss of hots too. not sure yet but we'll see.

and it's a pleasure

Rally shows up for me, and works, no matter what the traits I use. I have Rally on Live, don't know if that makes a difference

it shouldn't make a difference. I've bugged it and I assume it might be going to general skill but what ever happened is bugged for copy chars before a certain period.

like mentioned before I see no reason why not to be a general skill considering the upraor over it on beta

[Gillmour]

As someone who likes to solo in the moors, I'm glad the self hots are being removed. I always try to best an opponent by doing the most damage and only heal when required. Self heals and current damage are OP as they are. I am glad to hear dps has been increased. Cheers for all the info.

[Dramastorm]

Stance Changes

Dissonance - This is your damage dealing stance. you can not AoE heal and all heals are self only.

• Major ballad becomes an offensive ballad
• Code becomes Coda of Fury
  • High damage coda
• Anthem of the Third Age becomes Dissonant Anthem of the Third Age
  • Alters Coda: Coda refreshed call of the second age
  • +10% damage to your call skills for 10s
• Melody of Battle becomes Timeless Echoes of Battle
  • removes 1 corruption on application
  • reduces target resistance to song and cry skills
  • Damage-over-time effect every 5s
  • toggle skill, 5s cooldown
• Strike becomes Dissonant Strike
  • Removes 1 corruption from target
  • +10% incoming healing, 30s duration
• Piercing Cry becomes Dassonant Piercing Cry
  • Intterupts inductions
  • 40m range, 10s cooldown
• +25% ballad damage

Melody - a neutral stance, melody is focused on neither healing nor harming, but offers the abilitt to do both in moderation.

• Code becomes Coda of Melody
  • 6 target AoE that heals allies too
• Anthem of the Third Age
  • Alters Coda: Coda reapply anthem of the third age on a critical hit.
  • -20% anthem power cost for 10s
• Melody of Battle - used on ally, not self
  • +parry rating
  • on any damage: reflect damage
  • toggle skill, 5s cooldown
• Strike becomes Hero's Strike
  • Removes 1 corruption from target
  • +10% incoming healing, 30s duration
  • Heals minstrel on use
• Piercing Cry becomes Dassonant Piercing Cry
  • Intterupts inductions
  • 40m range, 10s cooldown
• +12.5% ballad damage, +5% out-going healing

Resonance - the main healing stance with high group utility but lowest damage.

• Code becomes Coda of Resonance
  • large heal on a single target
• Anthem of the Third Age becomes Resonant Anthem of the Third Age
  • Alters Coda: Coda makes your next bolster courage instant cast, buff lasts 10s
  • +10% outgoing healing, -25% to all skill inductions, 10s duration
• Melody of Battle becomes Echoes of Battle
  • removes 1 corruption on application
  • reduces target resistance to song and cry skills
  • Damage-over-time effect every 5s
  • toggle skill, 5s cooldown
• Strike becomes Healer's Strike
  • Removes 1 corruption from target
  • +10% incoming healing, 30s duration
  • Heals fellowships members withing 20m
• Piercing Cry becomes Resonant Piercing Cry
  • Intterupts inductions
  • STUNS TARGET ON CRITICAL<--------?
  • 40m range, 10s cooldown
• +10% out-going healing

Link back to Opening Post

Erm isnt the stun on Piercing Cry supposed to be listed under dissonence stance orrrrr am I missing something here?

[Calta]

Haha, I believe you! I just really hope the dev heeds the call of every single minstrel to put it as a general skill. I do like the new DPS now; I was killing mobs like nobody's business. Makes up for the loss of a load of HoTs, at least.

PS: Should've mentioned this earlier, but thanks for compiling this guide! It's got loads of good information and I like the way you organized it

Referring to rally Boba. In brief, it is there, but buggy.

Took 3 total respecs for it to appear for me. I'd lost it blue (despite it showing in trait/skill tree) as well as it not appearing in generals. checked every stance in every spec in skill panel after your post to me, and was just about to post here that it wasn't there (with screenshots! LOL) but swapped specs again for a last check and it appeared.

so it's buggy....

also can people check the peircing cry variants by stance and spec-i'm getting some weird results in testing these, and i'm also confused about which effect belongs where-like the stun in different stances and specs. i'm getting stuns in two stances-regardless of spec, sometimes......

EDITED TODAY
NOTE: RALLY APPEARS TO HAVE GONE FROM GENERAL SKILLS AGAIN IN BETA6