Helms Deep Failure ....

[sp33dccm]

Big hits do not automatically equate to DPS, and lightning RKs are the poster child for this truth.

True, but with the new BB system of killing lots of small things, lightning RKs somewhat have the edge over Fire. Even if fire parses higher. I'm parsing around 6-8k Fire and about 4-7k lightning depending on crits. These are in instances, not the galtrev dummies btw.

[EiledonTruevoice]

This thread has been very helpful, after reading through it I've decided, like I did with RoI and RoR I'll take the wait and see position before I spend my money. I think the one thing about it all is for a lot of us and I do know there are lifers here as well as 3 year veterans like myself and all in between, we should deserve some VIP incentive to make the purchase, of course that may happen yet! Anyhow, it's nice to see the Community spirit is still strong on this site. O_o.

Thanks to all of you for the insights to the expansion, I do mean that.

[Gladgilrian]

It's not about the 10k+ attacks, it's how consistent the damage can be done. Now I don't know what the hunter skills are for helms deep or how often they can do their 10k+ attack but I doubt it's more then every 15+ secs. I'd be interested to see a hunter parse, rk parse, and a champion parse in HD, but I was basing my information off of what I played during Mirkwood, RoI, and RoR and for all those expansions I was hardly every out parsed in DPS during raids.

I could care less about killing mobs in open zones as I could do a 6k parse on a mob that will last one second.

Upshot, every 25s, no induction, damage is increased with the amount of focus. My under-geared level 85 is dev critting for 15k, I'm sure 20k is possible on a well-geared Hunter. I don't even trait Heartseeker any longer, Upshot has replaced it. I agree that big numbers don't always equate to higher DPS, that's why IMO, Champs do the most consistent DPS, no inductions at all. Now in a raid fight it would depend on the fight. If it's a mob that is constant moving then melees are going to have trouble maintaining DPS, range DPS don't have that issue.

I hope this rotation of yours isn't the quick skill exploit

Have you put any time into Gambler? Seems it may be the spec for PvP, of course many have been using Gambler as a PvP spec, I was a die hard QK fan.

I am under the impression that DPS has been temporarily increased to ease the player base into the new system. A DPS nerf is coming across the board.

[Gladgilrian]

I thought it was well known that burg has the best sustained DPS. I've never parsed it myself, just going by what I hear other burgs say.

I'd say Champs, not so sure now with the changes, Champ is mighty boring to play now. What are you traiting now Milt?

[Gladgilrian]

also, at the risk of sounding like an even bigger ######, playing with 'some of the best' on nim in the last 2 expansions means you've played with some of the decidedly average in the grand scheme of lotro. The case can certainly be made that this was a different story in som and mom, but since roi launch, no.

^^^^^THIS!! and to illustrate, just look at the number of kins and raid groups

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ogression-List

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ogression-List

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ression-Thread

[cmash]

hope this rotation of yours isn't the quick skill exploit

Not sure what the quick skill exploit is. Do explain.

Have you put any time into Gambler? Seems it may be the spec for PvP, of course many have been using Gambler as a PvP spec, I was a die hard QK fan.

As said earlier in this thread, I don't play this game like I used to, so I'm not going to put in the time or effort to gear out for a spec for a game I don't play. Although, like you, I was a die hard qk burg as well and even with the changes now I still couldn't see myself switching to the gambler spec if I were still playing. I really have to be convinced to be a convert and so far all I've gotten is hearsay about the gambler line, about how it's better, the only way for me to believe is for someone to show numbers and figures.

[gungus_coyote]

The advantage in Gambler lies in the evade heal. It's a tad OP.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzrV...=sharing&pli=1

[Stepbrother]

I'd say Champs, not so sure now with the changes, Champ is mighty boring to play now. What are you traiting now Milt?

I'm saying, my understanding is people have parsed this many times and burg typically wins for sustained dps. Again, only going by what other people have said in OOC discussions, etc. I have no idea if it's true but the people talking about it sounded knowledgeable.

And I'm gambler traited now. Terrible dps but very hard to kill except on Nimrodel where creeps still sit in keeps with greater numbers even with the way creeps are right now. I've said it many times: they could make pvp 100% evenly balanced and it will make no difference whatsoever. The players provide whatever level of "balance" they are looking for. The whole balance debate is completely pointless.

[EiledonTruevoice]

Time to think outside the box, here's what people are saying.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...p/user-reviews

Lets hope it's not a trend.

[Stepbrother]

Time to think outside the box, here's what people are saying.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...p/user-reviews

Lets hope it's not a trend.

Yikes! 123

[Gladgilrian]

I'm saying, my understanding is people have parsed this many times and burg typically wins for sustained dps. Again, only going by what other people have said in OOC discussions, etc. I have no idea if it's true but the people talking about it sounded knowledgeable.

And I'm gambler traited now. Terrible dps.

These sound like old parses with old power pools and power expenditures. I really can't see how a Champ can't come out on top, position doesn't matter to a Champ, a Champ can trait for single target DPS to be more in line with a Burg, and Champs never had the power issues Burgs of old had.

I don't find the DPS terrible at all, it's at least as good as QK with all the DoT's and the added CC and heals are great. No, you aren't getting the initial SS big hit, but with the elimination of LiE as a skill SS isn't as big a hit now anyways. I'm going to play with MM and see if it's as OP as Desolates says.

[Gladgilrian]

Time to think outside the box, here's what people are saying.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/th...p/user-reviews

Lets hope it's not a trend.

It's been a trend for years.

[Gladgilrian]

Not sure what the quick skill exploit is. Do explain.



As said earlier in this thread, I don't play this game like I used to, so I'm not going to put in the time or effort to gear out for a spec for a game I don't play. Although, like you, I was a die hard qk burg as well and even with the changes now I still couldn't see myself switching to the gambler spec if I were still playing. I really have to be convinced to be a convert and so far all I've gotten is hearsay about the gambler line, about how it's better, the only way for me to believe is for someone to show numbers and figures.

There's suppose to be an exploit on par with with the LM Waterlore induction exploit.

So you haven't even tried Gambler and you know it's no good........got it!

[spelunker]

There's suppose to be an exploit on par with with the LM Waterlore induction exploit.

So you haven't even tried Gambler and you know it's no good........got it!

The water-lore issue wasn't an exploit, it was an impressively foolish developer trait potency decision.

The fast skill exploit is a completely different thing, and lets you fire off WELL over 10 skills per second with a macro program, or (depending on class and skill availability) greatly improve skill output for someone doing it manually at a rate based on their finger speed and timing. This bug has been around since fast skills were introduced (MoM, I think).

[sp33dccm]

The water-lore issue wasn't an exploit, it was an impressively foolish developer trait potency decision.

The fast skill exploit is a completely different thing, and lets you fire off WELL over 10 skills per second with a macro program, or (depending on class and skill availability) greatly improve skill output for someone doing it manually at a rate based on their finger speed and timing. This bug has been around since fast skills were introduced (MoM, I think).

From what I know they fixed this somewhat by giving counter-defense a cd, which prevents the cd/addle macro. Not sure about the other classes

[spelunker]

From what I know they fixed this somewhat by giving counter-defense a cd, which prevents the cd/addle macro. Not sure about the other classes

The change to burg trick CDs got rid of the most obvious implementation of the exploit, but the exploit itself is very much active for every class with fast skills

[Gladgilrian]

The change to burg trick CDs got rid of the most obvious implementation of the exploit, but the exploit itself is very much active for every class with fast skills

I tried MM, it kinda sucks.

[Gladgilrian]

OK, I can admit when I'm wrong, redline is pretty awesome once I changed my rotation. I can 1 shot 18k+ mobs with Aim+CDG from stealth with position. I can solo OP's without using a morale pot or FF.

[cmash]

OK, I can admit when I'm wrong, redline is pretty awesome once I changed my rotation. I can 1 shot 18k+ mobs with Aim+CDG from stealth with position. I can solo OP's without using a morale pot or FF.

If you do an aim+CDG+FB combo you get 7 crits/devs (depends if you're still wearing the hytbold redline gear where aim causes devs instead of crits). Probably due to all the skills being fast an CDG being a new skill implemented so it's not absorbing the aim skill the way it should be, but pretty cool none the less.

[Sic1]

all I know is leader of men for cappy is op as anything ive ever seen virtually unkillable unless you run out of power. XD

[gungus_coyote]

all I know is leader of men for cappy is op as anything ive ever seen virtually unkillable unless you run out of power. XD

That would be why you see some Cappies out lately that you've hardly seen before. Soloing keeps and DG relics.

[Gladgilrian]

That would be why you see some Cappies out lately that you've hardly seen before. Soloing keeps and DG relics.

I can solo OP's and Gorgoris without even breaking a sweat, so I can see how a Cappy could solo a keep.

[Gladgilrian]

If you do an aim+CDG+FB combo you get 7 crits/devs (depends if you're still wearing the hytbold redline gear where aim causes devs instead of crits). Probably due to all the skills being fast an CDG being a new skill implemented so it's not absorbing the aim skill the way it should be, but pretty cool none the less.

I took my vacation last week so I took that time to get a full set of PvP armor, so not wearing Hytbold gear. I have found that if kill a low health Creep with the first or second attack of CDG I never break stealth.

[Sic1]

I took my vacation last week so I took that time to get a full set of PvP armor, so not wearing Hytbold gear. I have found that if kill a low health Creep with the first or second attack of CDG I never break stealth.

who cares about burgs! they've had the spotlight in some aspect or another its all about cappies this expansion! wake up! :P

[cmash]

who cares about burgs! they've had the spotlight in some aspect or another its all about cappies this expansion! wake up! :P

Because cappies are just now the new fotm/y class. Burgs no matter what expansion have always been good and a pain in the ### for all creeps.