Upshot- what do the numbers say?

[achillesmb]

I'm no good with testing, so apologies in advance. Has anyone run the numbers on Upshot vs 3 spammed Pen-shots? Obviously if you crit its no contest, but you have 3 chances to crit with the pen shots vs 1 with upshot. If you have, say, a 25% change to crit upshot for huge damage, youll have a 58% chance one of your three penshots will crit, and some smaller chance of more than one crit.

Also theres a big difference in power consumption (128 v 3x170) but does anybody worry much about power even without BoR?

I get it for PvP and for openers with all the crit buffs up, but otherwise is it worth it?

[Patriotp3a]

I'm no good with testing, so apologies in advance. Has anyone run the numbers on Upshot vs 3 spammed Pen-shots? Obviously if you crit its no contest, but you have 3 chances to crit with the pen shots vs 1 with upshot. If you have, say, a 25% change to crit upshot for huge damage, youll have a 58% chance one of your three penshots will crit, and some smaller chance of more than one crit.

Also theres a big difference in power consumption (128 v 3x170) but does anybody worry much about power even without BoR?

I get it for PvP and for openers with all the crit buffs up, but otherwise is it worth it?

US will generally put out more damage than 3 PS. Thats not to say PS cant do more dmg either. Max PS devs x3 will do more than(or equal to) a decent US.
With high crit chance US is prob a better choice cuz it has a higher crit mult.
We popped oathies on Helf the other day and while a 44k Upshot is high, I had 3 PS that deved for 20k each. Outside of that, upshot usually deal more dmg than ps x3. Im assuming most people will be using upshot over 3 ps whenever off cd.
Ill go camp dummies testing this when I get the chance

[Geldeger]

I tried testing it right after hitting 95 some weeks ago, and I did it again now with much better gear and optimized LIs, but I wish someone more knowledgeable tested this. I'm a relatively new player.
Both times my average upshot = 2.2-2.3 of my average penetrating shot. Which makes sense since that's the tooltip range too. The sample size wasn't huge, a bit over 200 upshots+pen shots this time (and i guess about the same last time), so it's far from scientific. But it's not tiny either and I doubt that with more testing I would bring upshot from 2.2-2.3 range to 3+ range.

Another aspect is proccing, especially Deadly Precision. More shots, more procs. If you are at for example 25% crit including traits, 3 penetrating shots will give you 0.75 extra focus point on average, while one upshot will only give you 0.25 on average.

I haven't been using upshot in my regular rotation, and I think I won't use it in the foreseeable future. It seems to have situational value, and also it's far less power costly, but in terms of sustainable dps penetrating shot seems to be better.

Again, my hunter is relatively fresh. I have low virtues. My gear is average. My LIs are the only thing that's close to optimized at this point. And it's possible that I'm missing something because of being a new-ish player. So I'd love to see impressions from other people on this.

[Errastas]

I don't trait US, it interrupts my rotation too much. Sometimes I have to use 2 induction shots after US to regain some focus. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[Giliodor]

I tend not to use it with 9 focus, but with the leftovers. Same as the post above me, actually.

[Angadan]

I like using US after ISB on landscape mobs for back-to-back one-shots. ISB tops off the focus pool, US empties it, 2 mobs dead in just a second or so. Can't even get 3 pen shots off that fast. Only downside, as you guys already mentioned, is you gotta rebuild focus pool after that or restart with it empty.

[Eldarian_Grace]

But what about the tier 6 bonus to camouflage giving 50% crit chance? makes it even more attractive as an opener.
It's also done in one shot rather than 3, so you save the time needed for 2 pen shots (assuming they take the same time). So the time you save there is definitely enough for an induction, especially if it's mid fight and you have the procs up, you might get an instacast ISB. meaning squeezing an extra induction in ain't so much of an issue.

As for dummy parses, the high mits might chance the comparison if your using the trait for -% pen shot mits. Increasing the relative damage for pen shot & not upshot that may not reflect trash mobs and some bosses. This is most relevant if Big Battles (almost all trash mobs) remain or become more popular.

[TKH]

^If I have chance to do camouflage, I rather camouflage + improved focus and loose a Heart Seeker following with a full-focused Upshot. Heart Seeker will have 100% cri.chance if you maximize Critial Rating, and the following Upshot still have 50% chance to critical. Not mentioned that both skills benefits from +25% critical damage from Improved Focus too.

The mentioned combo above in maximized strength stance (+30% damage with legacy), maximized Burn Hot (+50% ranged damage with legacy) and the two legacy +20% Heart Seeker Damage, +25% Focus Critical Multiplier together with two relics +7.5% Devastation, the best hunter focus potion, together with incoming damage debuff... Hm, can someone give it a test?

[Patriotp3a]

US then insta ISB usually.

As foor TS trait, prob better to use bodkins if I had too choose..

@TKH
I dont use HS legacy on my main bow but that combo still hits really hard. Depending what im trying to zerg, I might use ISB/US or HS/US.

Againsts some on level mobs, ISB from camo can deal more dmg that HS from camo if both were to get upper limit fully buffed hits.

[Giliodor]

I one shot most mobs with ISB from camo... Would always take that over HS. Followed by PS spam, then US.

[Angadan]

ISB from Camo is a lot of fun, but the time to set up prior to the fight has to, at some point, be factored into the DPS calculations. And it takes (relatively speaking) a long time to drop into camo. I usually don't use it just for that reason in PvE unless there is forced wait-time.

[Magnumslash]

Not using or traiting for upshot is a very poor decision if you are trying to maximize your dps. A full focus upshot will do much more damage than firing off three pen shots, upshot also scales really well with crit since the more you crit/dev hit the faster you can use the skill since its cool down is reduced quite a bit by crits. I usually will have upshot off cool down by the time I get full focus again.

[Giliodor]

Not using or traiting for upshot is a very poor decision if you are trying to maximize your dps. A full focus upshot will do much more damage than firing off three pen shots, upshot also scales really well with crit since the more you crit/dev hit the faster you can use the skill since its cool down is reduced quite a bit by crits. I usually will have upshot off cool down by the time I get full focus again.

I would find it a rather poor decision to base your rotation around Upshot. 3x PS is just as effective in my opinion, plus you'll get more crits to get Upshot off cooldown more quickly. Hence I say: Upshot with leftovers.

[TheElfdude]

Upshot is awesome. I tend to use Heartseeker and then Upshot directly one after the other to finish enemies fast, or at least get their health down to 1/3. It's quite possibly my main combo for fighting. In my experience, it takes down most things on-level with me, and softens up mobs 3-ish levels above me so that all I need to take them down with PS.

[Magnumslash]

Not using or traiting for upshot is a very poor decision if you are trying to maximize your dps. A full focus upshot will do much more damage than firing off three pen shots, upshot also scales really well with crit since the more you crit/dev hit the faster you can use the skill since its cool down is reduced quite a bit by crits. I usually will have upshot off cool down by the time I get full focus again.

I would find it a rather poor decision to base your rotation around Upshot. 3x PS is just as effective in my opinion, plus you'll get more crits to get Upshot off cooldown more quickly. Hence I say: Upshot with leftovers.

Using an ability three times to do less damage than an ability you only use once is a poor decision? in the time your firing off the other two pen shots im already building focus back up. Bowmaster is now built around using upshot as a primary ability in your rotation

[Giliodor]

Using an ability three times to do less damage than an ability you only use once is a poor decision? in the time your firing off the other two pen shots im already building focus back up. Bowmaster is now built around using upshot as a primary ability in your rotation

No, use 3-4x PS (depending on crits), then US. Will probably (with my gear) result in 22k+ damage, whereas US only crits 18k, for me. Also, I find using only US simply boring... ^^ Finally, I didn't say primary ability, I said to base your ritation around it; building focus only to get off US.

[Gabli]

No, use 3-4x PS (depending on crits), then US. Will probably (with my gear) result in 22k+ damage, whereas US only crits 18k, for me. Also, I find using only US simply boring... ^^ Finally, I didn't say primary ability, I said to base your ritation around it; building focus only to get off US.

You are talking damage per focus.
In terms of damage par second, there is not a doubt you should use Upshot. You say you can put out 22k+ damage with 3-4 PS followed by US while only 18k with a single US (your numbers). Sure, but in the same time you used 3-4 PS + US, the other will have used US + whatever way he chooses to regain/spend focus in between Upshots.

If you are having doubts, try it on dummies and see if you can reach the same numbers of DPS without Upshot than what others have reached with it.

[Geldeger]

You are talking damage per focus.
In terms of damage par second, there is not a doubt you should use Upshot. You say you can put out 22k+ damage with 3-4 PS followed by US while only 18k with a single US (your numbers). Sure, but in the same time you used 3-4 PS + US, the other will have used US + whatever way he chooses to regain/spend focus in between Upshots.

If you are having doubts, try it on dummies and see if you can reach the same numbers of DPS without Upshot than what others have reached with it.

Those numbers aren't similar in my case. In my case, 3ps are quite a bit more damage than one upshot. So then the question becomes what's better, an upshot + maybe one quick shot that i might manage to squeeze in -- or 3ps + a bit of additional proccing. There's also the factor of wasting occasional deadly precision proc if trying to use upshot strictly at 9. A lot of factors and I couldn't say "no doubt you should use this or this."

On dummies, a pen shot spam seems to come out on top for me compared to a rotation built around 9 focus upshots. However, I'm optimizing my traits and LIs for pen shot. And of course, there's a good chance that I'm being far from perfect. Sample sizes aren't huge so rng is a factor, i.e. I'd need hours and hours to be safe, and I don't have the patience to spend more than an hour at a time.

[Patriotp3a]

You can have a pretty good rotation built around upshot. Thats not to say you canthave nice dps without US, it just helps maximize it. Imo, its the best capstone we have. Cant see myself being competetive w/o it

[achillesmb]

After a few weeks, i've found myself using US mainly to follow up HS as an opener, or from the hip if i run into something a want to kill quickly while im running around (great for farming). I dont think waiting out 9 focus to get your US off is good policy, although if i look down and i have it for some reason (after a few good crits etc) i'll certainly fire it off. I think the damage with PS spam is at least close to comparable with US- and the Pens also give you more flexibility then a total focus dump mid combat. If you killing something with some series meat to it, knockin off 12k at a go doesnt really register to me much anyway, Id rather have a rotation going to doesnt rely on maxing out focus, which I would argue costs you some DPS if you miss a couple of seconds here and a couple of seconds there with a full focus bar. In other words, if your burning focus as fast as you can, you essentially never max out and hence never have dead time where youre not either burning focus or gathering focus. That has to be figured in to your DPS calculation. Anyway, its a great skill and I'm glad to have it available. If one answer was clearly superior to the other it would be a more boring game.

[Aedfrith]

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