What has happened to Lotro ?

[LagunaD]

One of the major things I see and not defending the lack of raids... is where to put them. With Angmar it was uncharted territory so the first worked. In moria you had caves and caverns you could fill with dungeons and they worked. With Isengard of Course you had well Isengard tower and the surrounding area you could fill. But with Rohan, Fangorn, Gondor... other than Glittering Caves and Paths of the dead where could there be a lore appropriate raid. I mean Helms Deep couldnt be, because you would in the end have to lose. Same with some of the battles in Gondor.

So is there some caves or areas in Rohan I am not aware of... or maybe some other areas of Middle Earth like Erebor they could expand upon for raids?

Maybe if some suggestion were offered on where to put them, it might spark the creative juices in a developers eye. Ya never know.

I can't believe anyone could seriously suggest that this is why there are no raids. Raids, being instances, can be set anywhere. Apart from perhaps the Watcher, none of LotRO's past raids have been especially lore-appropriate.

The current raid tier in WoW is mostly set in the *starter zone* for one of the factions (basically in the equivalent of Bree).

Just to go down the list:

1) A raid could be set in Bree, or even in the Shire. By this part in the story, both are in trouble.

2) A raid could be set in Angmar. No more or less lore-appropriate than the original Rift raid, which was invented out of whole cloth.

3) A raid could be set in the Misty Mountains near Rivendell. No more or less lore-appropriate than the original Helegrod, which was invented out of whole cloth.

4) A raid could be set in Moria. Dorfs are constantly doing stupid things and getting their fat butts kicked by something.

5) A raid could be set in Dol Guldur. It is still an extremely important, and active (in the lore) base of the enemy.

6) A raid could be set (primarily) outdoors almost anywhere in Rohan, as a commando-style strike on an army camp of Saruman's. Maybe they are bringing some deadly artifact or other dwimmer-crafty contrivance that will massacre the Rohirrim unless destroyed. Maybe Saruman has recruited or genetically engineered a particularly powerful lieutenant to command his forces in the field. Maybe there's a force of Rohirrim under siege who need to be rescued.

7) A raid could be set in Dunland. Like the previous option, it would easily tie into the military situation, and Dunland is a blank slate as far as lore is concerned, so there could be a fortress, or military garrison, or even some older ruins.

8) You said it yourself: Paths of the Dead and/or Glittering Caves. The latter would a great choice to showcase the art team's work, as they are described as breaktaking in the lore. Paths of the Dead can be the following tier, once the story reaches them.

9) A raid could be set in the Ettenmoors. Still plenty of bad guys there.

10) A raid could be set literally anywhere else in Middle Earth. They already have the precedent of going to completely random places (Erebor) that have no connection to current expansion. So pretty much anywhere in Middle Earth except maybe Gondor or Mordor (if you consider those "reserved" for future content) could be the setting for a raid. Rhun or somewhere else the Easterlings control would be a possibility. Again - total blank slate lore-wise. The Lone Lands, Trollshaws, Evendim, Forochel, North Downs, Eregion - all plenty of possibilities too.

[Aisolon]

I think those who are lotro/Tolkien fans will really enjoy the being a part of the story (sure you have to suspend lore from time to time). In my opinion that alone was worth the $40. (I think there is a sell until the 29th).

I've been a huge fan of the Tolkien works for the better part of my life now. And have been playing the game for 6 years. But even as a very hard Tolkien fan I just can't get myself to buy the expansion. Couldn't even get to play the game on last expansion. Think I hit the previous level cap a few months before the new expansion.

The game has just been made such a drag. It's too easy to play and it's too easy to level. It becomes generic. It becomes a drag. It becomes something you love and hate at the same time. Logging in turns to standing around with a level 82 toon in Bree thinking for 15 minutes: "Should I go quest? Hmm I won't enjoy it. It's a drag."

No matter how hard a fan you may be of the Tolkien works. If the game just doesn't suit you anymore, you will no longer enjoy it.

I took back the Battle for Middle-Earth games for now and am enjoying them a lot.

It's just something different. Something needed. Something Lotro can no longer offer to me and so much Tolkien Fans.

[Valadilene]

you are also 6 years older, and have likely - if you are actually a gamer and not singularly focused on this one mmorpg - played other games. these two factors will change what you do and do not find enjoyable in such games, as you've undoubtedly experienced other new systems or other new ways to approach the same system.

this game NEEDED changes to the trait tree and to the speed of leveling 1-85. while i agree that the HD content should be a bit harder in the leveling bits, and a LOT harder in the group-oriented bits - these changes should be made without touching the current player power levels, as that would lengthen an already very lengthy leveling up process in a 6 year old DIKU-style mmorpg. The game needs a housing revamp (a part of the game i do not personally explore), horse routes better connected starting in moria, the removal of the daily cap on skill deed avdvancement which unduly punishes people who can't play every day of the week, changing the cooldown of small and medium guild crest recipes to x many per 7 days instead of once every 1-3 days to again stop unduly punishing people who can not play every day and other bits to make it as accessible as possible without making the game play itself. The fact is taht post Great Recession, people work more for less money and have less time for entertainment. Many of the chief complaints about this game back when it launched was the grind factor along with character models, character hair and running animations. It's only been moderately addressed. Still so many people get bored and leave in the 50's and it's not because it's 'too easy', it's because it's too repetitive, taking too long, moria is too damned long and stifling and easy to get lost in, the epic quests in moria send you back to the same area as many as 4 times in a row to collect dumb #### like lumber..oh go back for nails...oh go back for...etc. This was ok in 2007. It's no longer acceptable to the people who are willing to PAY for a f2p game in 2014.

LOL, thank you Teyaha. I was only stating my thoughts without any need for rhetoric and not to elicit a specific answer, but rather to encourage the listener to consider a message or viewpoint. And yes, thank you, I am actually a gamer.

LOL, /facepalm

[Vhivi]

the game has changed for the better. what has changed is you, your perceptions and your memories.

Baloney. People have this thing called a "memory." They remember what they had and the are able to compare it to what they have. Some people may like what they have now more than what they had, but many people don't. They know that the game has degraded over the years and they are saddened that the new additions aren't as immersive/interesting/well done as they were in the past.

You may be one of the people who like the changes, but don't you DARE tell anyone they're wrong for not agreeing with you.

[Beaniemooch]

you are also 6 years older, and have likely - if you are actually a gamer and not singularly focused on this one mmorpg - played other games. these two factors will change what you do and do not find enjoyable in such games, as you've undoubtedly experienced other new systems or other new ways to approach the same system.

Some of us "gamers" do like to focus on this one mmorpg. I focused on my first mmorpg with my son for 4 years, then when he lost interest I moved on to lotro with friends. I focused on lotro then up until HD - for five years I basically played lotro, and never got tired of it until the RoR fail expansion which had Erebor raids with the lousy RNG being worse than ever. I'm a gamer in that if the game is good I'll spend anywhere from 3-6 hours a day playing and spend money on TP/expansions/store items/whatever, because this is what I do for fun. Lotro has taken the fun out of it for me, so I'm down to very little playing time and zero money spent.

I've experienced new systems and new ways since then, but I'd rather have lotro fixed and fun than go play elsewhere. Otherwise I wouldn't keep trying to make the changes to this game I think are necessary. This would include balancing out the OP dps, fixing the broken skills that are still in the game, fixing bugs, giving me back the flexibility I lost on my minstrel, and putting some damn raids and instances in the game that are new and worth running.

[Valadilene]

...You may be one of the people who like the changes, but don't you DARE tell anyone they're wrong for not agreeing with you.

/applause
/signed

[Valadilene]

Some of us "gamers" do like to focus on this one mmorpg. I focused on my first mmorpg with my son for 4 years, then when he lost interest I moved on to lotro with friends. I focused on lotro then up until HD - for five years I basically played lotro, and never got tired of it until the RoR fail expansion which had Erebor raids with the lousy RNG being worse than ever. I'm a gamer in that if the game is good I'll spend anywhere from 3-6 hours a day playing and spend money on TP/expansions/store items/whatever, because this is what I do for fun. Lotro has taken the fun out of it for me, so I'm down to very little playing time and zero money spent.

I've experienced new systems and new ways since then, but I'd rather have lotro fixed and fun than go play elsewhere. Otherwise I wouldn't keep trying to make the changes to this game I think are necessary. This would include balancing out the OP dps, fixing the broken skills that are still in the game, fixing bugs, giving me back the flexibility I lost on my minstrel, and putting some damn raids and instances in the game that are new and worth running.

Again,

/applause
/signed

[zagreb000]

Here is what i think is going on....

Back when Moria came out, Turbine was really working hard to compete with the best MMOs out there... Yes, even WoW.. Turbine somehow got their hands on the best IP out there for fantasy MMOs and were ready to take on the best....
Ofc, it failed... There can be no major success (market leader, large player base) for any MMO that does not have highly developed pvp... Lotro proves that completely..

They worked so hard on the Moria expansion just to see it fail to take them beyond the marginal position in the mmo market they remain to this day....
in my 4 years playing this game, there has never been a player that did not acknowledge Moria being the best expansion so far... It just wasnt enough...

I assume that the return on investment from Moria was not as expected leading them into making a much poorer Mirkwood expansion and forcing them to adopt the F2p model.. IMO, Moria scarred them greatly...

Moria was so good all around, that it actually sustained the game all the way through the next expansion...
The drop in quality was becoming evident after that... RoI was probably the worse expansion Turbine ever released introducing to us the new direction they decided to take...

I call it the "cheapening of development"... The investment in the game dropped drastically just to see it culminate in our new expansion... Helms deep...

HD had some great ideas, the big battles seem decent, the spec trees are great too... But after playing through the expansion i noticed a few things...

The game has become extremely unpolished.. It often feels like all the developers took a vacation after they released the rushed expansion... I have never seen so many bugs, the patch notes dont correlate with the fixes in game, old cosmetics for new gear, old icons, some same icons for lvl 85 items, bugs that players warned the developers long before the release...

All these things and more, tell the player that something very wrong is going on... And honestly, its kinda scary... I often feel like there is only a handful of developers still working on this game... Is the Lotro dev team missing? Is there anyone still there? Is Sapience the only employee left working on Lotro?

I sincerely hope this is all connected to the release of Turbines new MOBA game (Kate Paiz letting us know there is no new expac in 2014 confirmed my beliefs), and that after they are done with it, the Gondor expansion will get us all back on track by providing us with Moria quality content...

We need to be rewarded for our loyalty... Nay, we deserve to be rewarded.

Well, thats my opinion at least...

[kickman77]

I can't believe anyone could seriously suggest that this is why there are no raids. Raids, being instances, can be set anywhere. Apart from perhaps the Watcher, none of LotRO's past raids have been especially lore-appropriate.
.

Well, if you read my entire post, In the very first sentence i stated "I am not blaming this on the lack of new raids"

What I was doing was offering a suggestion, and suggesting other players do (as you did in your post) as well, in the suggestion forums.

I think Lotro needs more raid content. I see some potential for the Epic battles headed into Gondor but they definitely not a replacement for raids or skirmishes.

[Teyaha]

There can be no major success (market leader, large player base) for any MMO that does not have highly developed pvp... Lotro proves that completely...

and the final fantasy xiv relaunch proves you are very much incorrect.

everquest's pve servers outnumbering and having a larger population - as well as everquest 2 still doing quite well without pvp - again disprove your point.

WoW's normal servers still to this day having a higher average population than their pvp servers - again - says you are incorrect.

[Teyaha]

You may be one of the people who like the changes, but don't you DARE tell anyone they're wrong for not agreeing with you.

never said anyone was wrong for not liking the changes. that's an opinion, and opinions are never wrong.

however to ignore the fact - fact - that the old trait and virtue system were far too grindy for modern mmorpg audiences is just silly. it WAS a grind. it WAS a HELLACIOUS grind the likes of which people hadn't seen since the original everquest (assuming they never touched korean games). it's a grind that had daily caps which punished people who couldnt log on everyday and work on their class deeds. it make the game inaccessible. a f2p game that is not accessible is a f2p game that has a hard time making money.

i agree with the masses that end game needs raiding and challenging group based content, but it can't be at the expense of the current player power curve. the level 1-95 game will still take a new player over 300 hours to do. VERY few people put that much time into any game, let alone JUST the leveling portion of a DIKU-based raid-and-group content based mmorpg. the korean games that take 100 hours per level have no end game. this is a AAA western mmorpg where the focus used to be on end game. so far nothing has been communicated to us from developers that this has changed. The lore alone will not be enough to pull in and retain players, not with the sheer amount of f2p mmorpg choices on the market today.

World of Warcraft ruined their game for a lot of people with cataclysm - they put the focus squarely on 10 man raiding, which overnight made a lot of raiding guilds with aggressive personalities in leadership dissolve just as it did when burning crusade changed raiding from 40 man to 25 man. In addition the raiding content was far too easy - especially the so-called heroic modes - so that my 10 man casual 3 nights a week raid had killed lady sinestra that february, barely 3 months after the expansion had launched. The content - and the rewards - came too fast. People got geared and no longer wanted to help others get their gear. Others were only there for the feat of killing the hardest boss in the game and when that happened, they were gone. Different people had different goals for the expansion. The game did introduce some great new systems at the same time.

This game has NEVER been a big game. It was inaccessible before. If anything they are likely seeing a resurgence with the combination of the expansion and the 2nd hobbit movie. There are many people who bought into this game at launch and were disgusted with the trait and level grind, terrible game decisions ie. needing cc for pulls but the only cc class in the game being unable to cc the most dominant mob type during angmar, the jarring stops-all-combat fellowship manuever that so many still hate with a passion especially those that play classes with short duration buffs that continue to tick down while you wait for everyone to play simon says. The game still has many other hold-over issues from launch that are - in my opinion - far, far more important right now than whether or not people are leveling too fast through Farming or being able to solo old raids. Soloing old raids has been a staple of mmorpg's since at least early 2007.

Yes, end game needs more content and more challenge - but any change to player power will make the leveling process take longer than it does now and THAT will continue to generate a perception of inaccessibility to new players.

[manstan]

never said anyone was wrong for not liking the changes. that's an opinion, and opinions are never wrong.

They are if I say they are.

[Beaniemooch]

however to ignore the fact - fact - that the old trait and virtue system were far too grindy for modern mmorpg audiences is just silly. it WAS a grind. it WAS a HELLACIOUS grind the likes of which people hadn't seen since the original everquest (assuming they never touched korean games). it's a grind that had daily caps which punished people who couldnt log on everyday and work on their class deeds. it make the game inaccessible. a f2p game that is not accessible is a f2p game that has a hard time making money.

You didn't have to log in every day to do class deeds. I had every class known to lotro and only worked the class deeds I wanted, unlike now where I have pretty much the same class deeds but I can't trait properly to get them without being in trait trees I don't want. Song of Aid deed? Waaaay in yellow line, which pretty much nobody uses. Minstrel rez deed I could finish 1-100 in 5 minutes with a 10 minute class deed accelerator which I never had to buy off store, they just seemed to appear in my bags as I leveled. Others just got done as I quested, whether fast or slow. Now you're punished with fewer points if you weren't a completionist and had every deed done by 85. Not only is it harder to do those deeds you have fewer points to spend in the old-fashioned trees, which lotro didn't do very well in my opinion. I definitely disagree with this point.

[Nymphonic]

You may be one of the people who like the changes, but don't you DARE tell anyone they're wrong for not agreeing with you.

I pretty well have to agree with this. I love the changes and I approve of them, but I also recognize that is my own personal enjoyment.


But Han fired before Greedo, and that is an indisputable fact. What does this have to do with the thread topic? I have no idea.

[Egilric]

What, standing on the steps of Meduseld wasn't enough for you? Actually SEEING Gandalf free Theoden from his lethargy?

Neither of those (and I admit to having a special affinity to the Rohirrim) was even close to as epic feeling as the first time I descended the stairs in to Nud-Melek in Moria. In fact the first time I saw those great carved stone trees from the top of that staircase is "THE defining moment" of my LOTRO experience so far.

Nothing since Moria has come close to imparting the same feeling of being involved, even on the periphery, in world changing events.

Now, I love the Nona/Horn storyline through the Post-Moria stuff, but the general feeling of being "a part of great things" just isn't there any more.

And picking up someone else's dirty dishes, and pitching tents, in almost EVERY zone in HD really is the low point in feeling "epic".

All The Best

[Dying]

So greed is an American phenomenon? Interesting.

but you cant spell 'america' without spelling the word 'greed' ... or can you, sorry english is only my second language

[manstan]

but you cant spell 'america' without spelling the word 'greed' ... or can you, sorry english is only my second language

Where is the surprise in that? The US has always been a capitalist society.

'Capitalism' A system of economics based on the private ownership of capital and production inputs, and on the production of goods and services for profit.

[Wof]

never said anyone was wrong for not liking the changes. that's an opinion, and opinions are never wrong.

however to ignore the fact - fact - that the old trait and virtue system were far too grindy for modern mmorpg audiences is just silly. it WAS a grind. it WAS a HELLACIOUS grind the likes of which people hadn't seen since the original everquest (assuming they never touched korean games). it's a grind that had daily caps which punished people who couldnt log on everyday and work on their class deeds. it make the game inaccessible. a f2p game that is not accessible is a f2p game that has a hard time making money.

You are dead wrong there, the old trait and virtue system was not anywhere near the grind that the new system is! Under the old system we could pick and choose what we wanted to grind, for example, want traits A,B & C but not D,E & F? Then only grind the three you want and get the rewards you want. Under the new system you HAVE to grind every single trait for a reward of 1/3 of a skill point which you then use to buy the couple of traits you actuallt want which may be totally unrelated to most of the grind you has to do to get it. For example, if my Lore Master wants to improve his Lightning skill, why does he have summon his pet 200 times, or to heal his pet 1,000 times to get a skill points to use on his Lightning skill? He plays MoNF and doesn't use a bloody pet! We have to play using skills we don't want to get points to use on skills we do want, who thought that one up? It's as bad as the old D&D xp, where you killed Orcs with an axe to improve your lockpicking skill!

[kmcferrin]

What has happened to Lotro ? Where has this feeling of doing something epic gone too?

I rememeber when I just started playing this game I was overblown with the urge to get to the end level zones like Angmar and later on Moria. They had something special about them, you could battle a Balrog, the instances in Moria were so much fun, the places you've went too looked astonishing, the music was just awesome. I remember I couldn't wait to enter Moria once I was lvl 50, the feelings I had when I entered that place, I almost couldn't control my excitement because it looked superb. Besides that there were new voice actors for the dwarves, a variation in the mobs, I miss those days. The expansions of Moria was something they worked on for some time, somewhere far before the annual release of expansions.

I don't have this feeling at all with the newer expansions. In my opinion Isengard whas a step down from Moria and Rohan has been a step down from Isengard. I didn't even bother to play Helms Deep because of the user reviews. There is just no special feeling about the expansions no more. The fun instances are gone as well. As from I've read the music sucks in Helms Deep, so did it in Isengard, only Rohan was a lot better.

It's like the developers aren't as excited anymore, can we blame Warner Bros for taking over? In some way we can I think. The central idea of the game now is making money, okay it was like that before WB took over but you did at least get enough for the price you paid, you'd feel satisfied when you bought something, now it's just pay more, get less.

So I really miss playing Lotro, but I won't play it again until it gets better, I just don't have fun in the newer area's. Let's hope when they redo some older content now that some of the things get better.

thanks for reading

Yeah, I don't know who's to blame, but I'm getting pretty sick of the Rohirrim and their storylines. Once you leave Mirkwood, it's been just a giant series of identical zones with identical characters and identical mobs.

[Cordelia_Flyte]

This comment is anti American. Don't say Americans love money when most of Europe has higher prices of food, clothes and electronics. Not to mention taxes. I lived in the US for 10 years and Europe for close to 11 now. I can say that if i had the money i would move back to the US in a heartbeat even if i don't like Obama.

I have to say this thread is schizo. One half talking about the original comment and the other half babbling about American/anti-American blather. Sheesh.

[Rakshilady]

There is no surprise that this happened. For me the game became easy and generic. Instances don't pose a challenge and even the loot has the same statistics now.
Why? As a European I'd say Americans love money that's why. In the very old days you had entrepreneurs now you have businessmen. The difference. The entrepreneur was proud on his product and did everything to satify the customer. The customer came first and the money came second. Now you have businessmen who had the idea of making lower quality products for more money resulting in more profit. They do not care about the customer except if they can rob them of more of their hard earned cash by convicning them to buy products they don't actually need.

Turbine is such a company. All they care about is money, money, money. It often happens when you need a GM it takes over 15 minutes to get an answer. If you're doing group content it's likely the group already disbanded. If you do get a GM it's often ticket closed with a auto generated answer or they say they can't help you. Customer service costs money. Less service means more profit. The less time you spend on a customer, the less staff you need, the more profit you make. Do the math. Look at how buggy big battles are. They're riddled with it. Do they care. No because if they did care the evidence would be a polished game. The enormous amount of bugs is evidence of their non caring for their customers. I guess we've become accustomed to bad service. I cannot even name a big company that has excellent customer service, in your own language, that know what they're doing and fix whatever issue you have to your satisfaction.

You hit the nail exactly on the head. This is no longer a 'game'... as evidenced by the fact that their mega game-playing big deal "Big Battles" are about as much fun as getting your teeth drilled even when they DO work! It's about sucking as much money out of us as they possibly can.

Add to that the fact that complaining about these things or even politely mentioning them in some cases can earn you a reprimand or outright ban on these forums.

What's saddest of all about these things is that, to me, the signal the beginning of the end of what was once a great game. I'll continue to play now and then because I'm a huge Tolkien fan and love being in his world. But Turbine will never get another dime out of me. This latest expansion is a disgrace. They don't deserve my money. I'll save it up to give to ESO.

[zagreb000]

and the final fantasy xiv relaunch proves you are very much incorrect.

everquest's pve servers outnumbering and having a larger population - as well as everquest 2 still doing quite well without pvp - again disprove your point.

WoW's normal servers still to this day having a higher average population than their pvp servers - again - says you are incorrect.

The flawed logic behind your responses is amusing... hehe..

You do know you can pvp even if you are on a pve server? haha..You do know eq2 population is miniscule compared to any of the market leaders?
Nothing you said disproves my claim...

[hobbit1968]

What has happened to Lotro ? Where has this feeling of doing something epic gone too?

I rememeber when I just started playing this game I was overblown with the urge to get to the end level zones like Angmar and later on Moria. They had something special about them, you could battle a Balrog, the instances in Moria were so much fun, the places you've went too looked astonishing, the music was just awesome. I remember I couldn't wait to enter Moria once I was lvl 50, the feelings I had when I entered that place, I almost couldn't control my excitement because it looked superb. Besides that there were new voice actors for the dwarves, a variation in the mobs, I miss those days. The expansions of Moria was something they worked on for some time, somewhere far before the annual release of expansions.

I don't have this feeling at all with the newer expansions. In my opinion Isengard whas a step down from Moria and Rohan has been a step down from Isengard. I didn't even bother to play Helms Deep because of the user reviews. There is just no special feeling about the expansions no more. The fun instances are gone as well. As from I've read the music sucks in Helms Deep, so did it in Isengard, only Rohan was a lot better.

It's like the developers aren't as excited anymore, can we blame Warner Bros for taking over? In some way we can I think. The central idea of the game now is making money, okay it was like that before WB took over but you did at least get enough for the price you paid, you'd feel satisfied when you bought something, now it's just pay more, get less.

So I really miss playing Lotro, but I won't play it again until it gets better, I just don't have fun in the newer area's. Let's hope when they redo some older content now that some of the things get better.

thanks for reading

I have to agree. Ive been playing this since day 1 and ive seen a change, mut in the wrong direction. My biggest thing is Rohan. All of these expansions look the same and its boaring. I know they are going on the path of the fellowship, but its been in the same area for too long. They need to divert to somewhere else for the next expansion to for a change. most likely they will go to Gondor next, but again it will be the same area, same graphics area. There are alot of dissapointed people with this, and when Everquest Next, and Syrim Online comes out this year, I think you will see it thin out in LOTRO. I love this game, its the only on-line I play, but they need to get out of this area and show us what they can do like they did when this game started. Make it exciting again.

[Silverbullets]

What happened to LOTRO? I can answer your question, OP, in one simple line:

Kate and Fernando Paiz

They're the managers responsible for this game's direction. And as we can tell from Kate Paiz's recent letter to the community, they're non-apologetic for it.

In contrast, the producer for Final Fantasy XIV actually knows how to apologize for a bad product and make things right. I don't play that game. Never touched it. Not my cup of tea. But I like that he takes responsibility for letting down the community. I think the Paiz's could learn a lot from him, if they were willing. It would certainly earn back my customer loyalty if they did.

[RicardoFurriel]

What happened to LOTRO? I can answer your question, OP, in one simple line:

Kate and Fernando Paiz

They're the managers responsible for this game's direction. And as we can tell from Kate Paiz's recent letter to the community, they're non-apologetic for it.

In contrast, the producer for Final Fantasy XIV actually knows how to apologize for a bad product and make things right. I don't play that game. Never touched it. Not my cup of tea. But I like that he takes responsibility for letting down the community. I think the Paiz's could learn a lot from him, if they were willing. It would certainly earn back my customer loyalty if they did.

Apologize for what? Lotro is as exciting as ever, more and more things to do, the community wins awards, HD is an epic success. I'm pretty sure that's how they think. Therefore, why apologize?

Merry Christmas