Hunter class is ruined with the HD expansion

[araquin]

Hello all,

I hope I am not alone in this opinion; I didn't see any similar threads to this one.

I am so upset with the changes to Hunter via the new trait system! This class has been my main for 6 years and now my enjoyment of playing Hunter is shot.

I suppose Turbine meant well with the new Trait Trees, but in reality it obviously forces us into one of three roles. I had my hunter tweaked to perfection (for me). Swift Stroke and Agile Rejoinder were among my favorite moves - I was very good at melee combat and loved it. Now for the DPS redline, I'm forced to be virtually arrows-only. Low cut with the brief stun is #### to me. Dazing blow is nice, but without the complimentary melee skills that are missing, it's value is diminished. That's all there is!

Of course for me, the trapper-line is out of the question. Not my style, never been my style. I played around with the blue-line; running while shooting is nice, and it has it's uses, but the loss of bow range with this choice makes it something I will not play, unless to just mess around with it sometimes.

Am I the only Hunter that is upset? I know there was a lot of noise about losing Agile Rejoinder early on, but it goes much deeper than just that for me.

Please Turbine, I've been loyal from almost the beginning - make some changes to the current set up!


Thank You
Araquin Ajinn - Meneldor

[grisbald]

My main is a Hunter and I'm still happy with the class. It was weird figuring out the new skill trees, but I still mow down stuff just like I did pre-HD.

[Whart]

I haven't played my hunters since the update. I looked at the skills that made up the majority of my rotation and realized that they were now evenly buried deeply across the 3 lines, so I just lost too much to be interested. I really wanted to be a blue-line hunter, but the loss of RoA and RoT was too much. Do I need those now? It doesn't appear so. But I want them, and I don't have them, so the hunters have gone on a shelf.

I probably could play and still mow things down instantly, and in fact most of my hunter friends have been gleefully doing exactly that. But I can't play my hunter the way I want to, with the skills I want to use, so I won't be playing them anymore. Instead I'm mostly blowing things away on a mini that I don't understand at all but that still manages to kill things with 1-2 mashes of any red button, so I guess it works.

[Gwuryn]

At first, I hated the changes and didn't even want to play my hunter. I rolled out a champ and leveled him to level 25 before getting bored. I went back to my hunter and traited mostly red with some blue. I gave a skirmish a try and was pleasantly surprised, so much so that I bit the bullet and bought HD with TP. I put my last 10 points into the blue line and never even bothered with Upshot in the red line. I'm level 95 now with mostly teal gear, and my hunter is a beast. The change from level 85 to level 95 was amazing. I'm killing most landscape mobs in two or three shots, and I'm running tier 3 skirmishes without a problem. I feel like much more of a contributor to the level 95 PUGs I've been running for marks and gear. Heck, I was a huge lover of Agile Rejoinder, and honestly, I don't even miss it now that I'm so much more powerful than I was at level 85. So, I freely admit I was completely wrong about the changes that were implemented with HD. Granted, a lot of the quests were boring and irritating, and I have no use for BBs, but it's a fair trade-off for the massive improvement to hunters.

[Yula_the_Mighty]

I liked the changes to the Hunter class. I am using the Trapper line. Lots of fun.

Helms Deep brought a class revamp that massively changes the way all classes work. You really loved the way your character before Helms Deep. That way is gone now. You going to have to find a new way that you love.

[Thorsock]

I've been playing Hunters since Beta and, like many, approached the changes with trepidation. I, too, favored a balanced trait set before HD. With the advent of trait trees, I went mostly Red with a smattering of Blue. I miss Rain of Thorns and Agile Rejoinder. But I've learned to compensate. So, overall, having played two Hunters to 95 and four more over 90, I must still enjoy the class.

[Smehcoons]

I love the changes. In fact, the changes have had me level my 'original main' hunter from 65 to 95.

Not sure what the OP is on about. Ruined?!? Because of agile rejoiner? You are a ranged dps class! Not a healer! Things should not even get close to you to even bother with melee.

I have seen some very effective blue and yellow traited hunters too, and they're so much fun!

My suggestion is to give all three trait lines a good go and see what you can do.

[anthonyx]

I think of all classes the Hunter still feels like the class pre HD. I agree with you in that we are forced to play a certain way. It is hard to hybrid a build. The DPS is so great now that most people overlook that fact. I hope in the future that more skills and skill points are added so that we can once again play the way we want to. I want my RAIN OF THORNS in the redline if I choose. As for melee I agree! Though most mobs are dead by the time they get to me I still want more melee. (BTW the Legolas of the Hobbit movie was freaking good at melee skills lol. Not that LOTRO should take that into account). I recall a hunter dev sometime ago had an idea of making the blue line a ranged/melee line. He was of coursed berated mainly because at the time the Blue line was the best it ever has been. So now when I play my warden in the Yellow line I think back to the fact that it could be my hunter doing this.

The Hunter can still be fun. The yellow line is ok and fun to play from time to time. I would suggest trying out the Red build go in a skirmish that you know well and see what it can do.

The hunter class forum is a good place to discuss what you like and don't like about the hunter. Quiet there now but usually you will get some good info. I don't know if the devs still monitor those post or not but its worth a shot.

[Elrantiri]

I have not played Hunter much as I've been focusing on Captain, but currently the whole stance-dancing concept (the 10s buffs from swapping stance) is not appealing to me, and there seem to be so many procs to look out for (Needful haste, zero induction on next skill, stacking -crit def on target etc).

I recall a hunter dev sometime ago had an idea of making the blue line a ranged/melee line. He was of coursed berated mainly because at the time the Blue line was the best it ever has been.

The state of the blue line was probably the smallest of the reasons he was berated though one of very few valid reasons. The atmosphere between Zombie Columbus and the Hunter community was simply lethal (some were openly suggesting ZC getting physically hurt!) at the point of the suggestion, and there was pretty much zero communication between ZC and the Hunter forum from that point.

[anthonyx]

I remember ZC. I thought he got a bad rap for a lot of the hunter chaos. But then those were the lean years for Hunter development. Didn't ZC created the RK class? I wonder what he would think of it now?.

[Castorix]

I love the changes. In fact, the changes have had me level my 'original main' hunter from 65 to 95.
Not sure what the OP is on about. Ruined?!? Because of agile rejoiner? You are a ranged dps class! Not a healer! Things should not even get close to you to even bother with melee.

Agreed, "ruined" has no sense.
Self-healing is a lot better than before with Press Onward which has been improved.
And DPS is insane in Red, like for all classes (40K hits sometimes on some 3-man mobs, it is absurd)

[Elrantiri]

Agreed, "ruined" has no sense.
Self-healing is a lot better than before with Press Onward which has been improved.

That depends on your point of view. Many players are rather focused on certain skills rather than a complete feel of the class. For the Hunter, many players complain about losing Agile Rejoinder and back in Beta the gating of Swift Bow and Barbed Arrow were causing massive amounts of whining.
On one side it'd be possible to make a Hunter class that has none of the pre-HD skills and instead a whole new set of skills and still be fun to play, but for many players the old skills are what makes the class. For those players, a lot of the fun is gone when certain skills are gated or removed despite whatever new the class might bring.
E.g. Selfhealing seems a good lot better now, but if you never liked using PO and really like AR that's not much of a comfort.

And DPS is insane in Red, like for all classes (40K hits sometimes on some 3-man mobs, it is absurd)

DPS is just a number though. What really matters is whether the class is fun to play, if skills and skill rotations etc. offer good gameplay. Of course there's some fun in smashing a mob for much higher numbers than ever before but it'll only get you so far if the rest is bland.

[Rowellan]

I've always preferred to play my huntress as ranged damage dealer - so of course the red line as it is now is literally perfect for me.

But it's true, if someone prefers to play a hybrid range/melee class the new skill trees suck... to be honest, my little champ with her pull bow feels more like a ranger than my huntress.

[Eldarian_Grace]

I have not played Hunter much as I've been focusing on Captain, but currently the whole stance-dancing concept (the 10s buffs from swapping stance) is not appealing to me, and there seem to be so many procs to look out for (Needful haste, zero induction on next skill, stacking -crit def on target etc).
.

The stance dance is unnecessary, dps is high enough without it. You switch to endurance is you pull something that Wil genuinely hurt you and then back to precision.

The procs and spotting them add a layer of skill, sure you can mash the buttons and they still die but get them right and you can really excell. Instacast ISB feels good and quick shot crits well and mid combat blink and you miss the induction.

The swift stroke and AJ combo was a fun one but I've no idea why some get so obsessed by it. What was embarrassing is that someone thought they could gate swift bow behind red and barbed arrow behind blue, for what purpose? how did that seem like a good idea? it made it to build 4 of beta.... crazy. How did that conversation go? you know the skills you earned at like level 7, yeah those in fact the third and fourth things you ever learned how to do and have based your fighting on ever since? yeah we've binned them.

[Macroscian]

Would opening poster please explain a little bit in detail what the trouble is?

In HD I have played my old main hunter through 85-95. That was easy - but then, it always was very easy with virtues max and good funds and no worries or needs.

In HD I have also checked what the game is like for a hunter that just started and has nothing: took a crafter alt from 35 to 95. He's still pretty much a gimp, with virtues in the 3-7 range, but entirely playable in blue line with a tiny 2-points in yellow for that additional in-combat trap.

In HD I also wanted a look at what the start game is like for my fav class so I rerolled a storage character and played as a hunter from start. And played. And played. It is now level 80 and still very much a functional character.

1) we finally deal some damage
2) we have some optional crowd control well beyond the old rooting aoe
3) we can play while moving around

Play blue a bit and you will love it.

I think you have been doing strength stance all through cap 85, for the extra damage? Personally I can't stand the stop-focus-BLAMMO-walkstop-focus-BLAMMO so I don't run red (and have not used S:S since cap 75) and was very happy when Precision was made to be very fine and useful at cap 85.

...unless this is a pvp topic, in which case I know nothing about it.

[Kheld_GB]

Ive played Hunter since 2007. I must confess I dont like the Trait Trees (although they are far better than the beta 1 trees).

The tactical flexibility of the Hunter has been pared down, I LIKED the range of skills we had, such as the ability to AoE when possible, CC when necessary, and melee when in the doodoo).

Thats not to say the current Hunter isnt good at DPS, because it is, its just a little dull nowadays.

[manstan]

My Hunter has a nuclear powered bow with guided missiles; that's why I am paying a different game now.

[Mar-Evayave]

I was very good at melee combat and loved it. Now for the DPS redline, I'm forced to be virtually arrows-only.

This stuck out to me the most. The hunter is not and should never be a melee class. It's not even a hybrid melee/ranged class. It's a ranged class with a few melee skills. The melee skills were the most useful pre-HD when you'd get more mobs on you than you could handle and weren't able to CC them and get away. With too many mobs interrupting inductions, having some melee attacks made it possible to still kill them. Now, however, the CC seems way better if you go yellow or you can attack on the move at a range in blue. Red seems, IMO, to have the most use in traditional raids or the such, when the attention isn't on you anyway, and when your DPS is all that really matters.

[MithrielWielder]

Well this is what was said during beta not just for hunter but for all classes, so this post just rehashes old news. No classes are as fun to play now, except apparently for people that just want more dps without relying to much on skill differentiation. For reasons of its own, Turbine ignored the feedback in beta and went forward with the revamp. So now all players had the choice of adapting or quitting. That pretty much sums up the last three months of lotro and the current state of affairs.

There are those like me who won't give up despite disappointment, but clearly the numbers in glff are way down, the number of groups being advertised in glff is way down, fewer on the friends list are online, and it is nearly impossible to get into a 12 man HD battle unless you are in a large raiding kin. Basically, there is nothing to do from a raid perspective, so those who have not quit because of the class changes are just not getting on as often, which means fewer players still. The game feels like we are nine months into an expansion instead of one month.

To get the game back on track, we need more gold loot from somewhere (and less teal loot from BB, all these duplicates have people hopping mad). People need to have a path to a gold gear grind. If you want to limit gold loot to BB, then plat needs to become available in the solo and three mans as easy as it is from the 12 man. Better yet, go back to the old way of doing things and just allow gold stuff to drop in non-BB scaling instances. Or make seals have a purpose (the current offering from seals is junk). Whatever you do, make it quick because the numbers still playing are dropping every day.

[Rugongrod]

Not much to say here except I have no problems range killing most mobs, those that do get close get stunned then dead. All Red traits and some blue.