Game of Riddles

[c_the_awesome]

Can you tell us why goblin is correct? I was realy confused.

[Wilros]

Can you tell us why goblin is correct? I was realy confused.

Since only one of the statements may be correct, the riddle hinges on the two statements that are in direct opposition of each other:
1. The man says that the dwarf did it.
2. The dwarf says that the man is lying.

Since these say opposite things, one of them must be a true statement, and the other untrue just like all the others.

The trick is that you don’t have to figure out which one is true and which is not. As long as you know that one of them is true, it means that all of the other statements are not true, including: “The goblin swears he didn’t steal the pie”, and therefore the goblin is the pie thief.

Having discovered who the thief is, you can now figure out that the only true statement of the bunch was the dwarf claiming that the man was lying.

Clear as mud?

[Mulkfather]

first try at something like this. Hope it's not too easy.

When I am gone, I can never return
No matter how one may yearn
I can cut like a sword
or be rich as dragon's hoard
Wounder and healer
truth or concealer

What am I?

[Vilnas]

Time?

(more words)

[Mulkfather]

not time, sorry.

[Vilnas]

first try at something like this. Hope it's not too easy.

When I am gone, I can never return
No matter how one may yearn
I can cut like a sword
or be rich as dragon's hoard
Wounder and healer
truth or concealer

What am I?

Spoken words?

[Mulkfather]

Spoken words?

correct.

[Urias]

Excellent. I will be away for a few days but will post the next riddle when I get back.

[Vilnas]

This will either be easy or impossible. The answer is grounded in JRRT lore.

Untamed am I.
Of shifting form,
I crawl in ground
Unless I do not.
Journey twice whereof
The singers sing not,
And seek for me
In a place
Of arid finality.

[c_the_awesome]

Was it Golum, travaling to Cirith Ungul, or Mordor?

[Vilnas]

Wow, that is an excellent interpretation of clue, and perilously close to forcing me to award you the riddle stick. Fortunately, there is a chapter in The Two Towers titled "The Taming of Smeagol", so I am safe to hold out for my intended answer.

You are correct in that the intended answer is something specific to the core Tolkien legenderium, rather than a generic concept like "time", "darkness" or "fish".

[c_the_awesome]

Is it Sauron /crossfingers

[Vilnas]

Well, that isn't the answer I had in mind. Can you walk me through why you think it is Sauron? If you can show how that answer satisfies each element of the riddle, then I will accept it as a solution.

As a general hint, my intended solution is specifically mentioned in a line in one of the core books. Each element of my riddle corresponds to part of that line.

[c_the_awesome]

Untamed am I. (Sauron was not the nicest of people, uncivilised probably, he hing celebrimbors body on a pole and used it as a banner)
Of shifting form,(Sauron could shapeshift)
I crawl in ground,(isn't he refered to as a serpent sometimes?)
Unless I do not. (his form is not defined so he does not have to crawl)
Journey twice whereof (did'nt he move to Dol Guldur twice?
The singers sing not,(no one would sing of Dol Guldor
And seek for me
In a place
Of arid finality. (His spirit was destroyed in Mordor)

It probably isnt correct, so i came up with another guess

Is it the one ring?

[Vilnas]

That was a pretty good effort with Sauron, but I think you miss on a couple of elements. It is not the One Ring either.


I will give another hint or two:

Each line, pair or triplet of lines gives a word or two which are part of a quote from a character in one of the books. The line groupings are separated by periods or commas.

Not every single word in the quote is represented in the riddle, but I believe all of the important words are.

"Untamed" is a much more direct pointer than what c_the_awesome proposed. Look for a synonym there.

The "singers" are Legolas and Aragorn, but the passage with the answer to the riddle is not in any of the three LotR volumes (i.e., it is in The Silmarillion or The Hobbit).

[StrideColossus]

Hmmm I was trying to think of instances where there are multiple 'singers' and the only one I could come up with was Aragorn and Legolas singing the Lament of Boromir, but you've ruled that out as it's in LoTR. Bizzarely though I was correct with the identity of the singers!

Another wild guess then: Luthien?

Aragorn certainly sings part of the Lay of Luthien to the hobbits under Weathertop, though I can't think of any instances of Legolas doing the same off the top of my head.
She disguised Beren and herself to escape the dungeons of Sauron (shape-shifting?)
The 'journey twice' might refer to the fact that she returned from the Halls of Mandos and became mortal?

Tenuous, other than that I'm flailing!

[c_the_awesome]

I was thinking the same as Stride, the only time that Legolas and Aragorn sang together was in the Lament for Boromir, they would not sing of the east wind.

The word untamed has a synonym "wild, so I was thinking could it be Ulfang the Black Easterling or his sons Ulfast, Ulwarth, and Uldor. They "shifted" sides in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. And one of them (I think it was Uldor) was killed on the Anfauglith.

[Vilnas]

No, you have the scene with the singers correct, and from there it is but a short step to filling in a word of the passage I have in mind. What I meant is that the line that is the ultimate answer to the riddle is not in LotR, but rather in another book.

[Vilnas]

Aragorn certainly sings part of the Lay of Luthien to the hobbits under Weathertop, though I can't think of any instances of Legolas doing the same off the top of my head.

How about this for a clarification:

A double journey in the direction of which the singers do not sing

[Vilnas]

I was thinking the same as Stride, the only time that Legolas and Aragorn sang together was in the Lament for Boromir, they would not sing of the east wind.

The word untamed has a synonym "wild, so I was thinking could it be Ulfang the Black Easterling or his sons Ulfast, Ulwarth, and Uldor. They "shifted" sides in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. And one of them (I think it was Uldor) was killed on the Anfauglith.

Hrm. That is dangerously close to working as an answer. I will need to parse it and see whether I can justly disqualify it. Give me a bit.

[Vilnas]

I was thinking the same as Stride, the only time that Legolas and Aragorn sang together was in the Lament for Boromir, they would not sing of the east wind.

The word untamed has a synonym "wild, so I was thinking could it be Ulfang the Black Easterling or his sons Ulfast, Ulwarth, and Uldor. They "shifted" sides in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. And one of them (I think it was Uldor) was killed on the Anfauglith.

Ok, I think I am still safe. They shifted sides but I do not see how they are of shifting "form." Also, I don't think you use "I crawl in the ground unless I do not."

That said, I think the various responses have collectively supplied all of the correct words or at least concepts. See if you can string them together. Remember, the answer is contained in a phrase, and the lines of the riddle give the words of the phrase.

Last clue: The phrase is not from The Silmarillion.

[Tobex]

Ok, let me have a shot at this.

"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."
Quote from Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit.

[Vilnas]

Ok, let me have a shot at this.

"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."
Quote from Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit.

Excellent! That is exactly what I had in mind. It is one of my favorite little tidbits in all of the books, because it is so random and so evocative. I would dearly love to know more about the wild Were-worms of the Last Desert.

Untamed am I. [Wild]
Of shifting form, [Were-]
I crawl in ground [Worm]
Unless I do not. [unless "Worm" means "dragon"]
Journey twice whereof the singers sing not, [East of East]
And seek for me in a place of arid finality. [Last Desert]

[Tobex]

First try at this, it's the best I can come up with. The answer is also something in the JRRT lore.


High in the sky above the clouds I lie,
Hidden from the public eye.
I've achieved quite a fame,
Seven kings I bear within my name.

A mighty battle here took place,
Good and evil face to face.
They were of equal kind,
But the other had a twisted mind.

[Vilnas]

The balrog, Durin's Bane, thrown down by Gandalf on Zirak-zigil.