Loremaster Issue

[K1llyah]

This is coming from a r12 loremaster.

please nerf our burst dps.

The following image is a lucky hit on a rank 1 blackarrow with 42k ish morale. However, Loremasters have another high burst damage skill. This results iin me being able to 2 shot 70% of the creeps in about 6 seconds of combat.



By the way, de Ancient craft damage bonus you see in the picture is umitigated. it will hit for about 18k on full audacity warleaders.

Did i mention this damage is done in the yellow (CC) line?

this madness needs to stop.

[MonkeyTamer]

Um, turbine really only nerfs creep damage and buffs. In fact, ironically, it is the BA's that have been screwed over just about the most in recent times, RE: the nerfing of revenge's crit chance and MT's duration and cooldown. The way these skills were pre-nerf had ranked BA's a little more comparable to ranked freep dps and survivability, which is not allowed. You, kind person for your decency (I mean sincerely), can be certain that your freep toon is quite safe.

Although there are the rumours of changes to some freep toon stat's OTW with U13. What does finally eventuate there we will see after the update is made available, as always.

Cheers 07.

[Vulcwen]

That screeny is lots of dev luck (the bonus damage seems to depend on how much damage the skill itself does), you don't see it every day you get 3 devs on a single target in a row :P
But yeh, yellow line has crazy burst dps, since you also have AItI.. that one can crit for 25k unmitigated too, and has basically a 3s cd (not exactly, but owell). AM really shouldn't have this much dps (it's the support line fgs). Yellow has too much dps and too little support...

Btw, you should try AC-bonus LS in blue line once (so with garanteed crit, no induction), like this build http://www.lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=cW , that's even more insane. Did I tell you it's garanteed crit already? :P And if you get in trouble, you can use your garanteed crit on every tick no-induction water-lore...

[K1llyah]

That screeny is lots of dev luck (the bonus damage seems to depend on how much damage the skill itself does), you don't see it every day you get 3 devs on a single target in a row :P
But yeh, yellow line has crazy burst dps, since you also have AItI.. that one can crit for 25k unmitigated too, and has basically a 3s cd (not exactly, but owell). AM really shouldn't have this much dps (it's the support line fgs). Yellow has too much dps and too little support...

Btw, you should try AC-bonus LS in blue line once (so with garanteed crit, no induction), like this build http://www.lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=cW , that's even more insane. Did I tell you it's garanteed crit already? :P And if you get in trouble, you can use your garanteed crit on every tick no-induction water-lore...

in that trait tree you can't use the burning embers cashout vs creeps. stun will not last long enough (about 2,8 sec stun on a test of will at 7,5, 19 audacity) but it sure does a lot of damage in pve

[LEGENDofALL]

in that trait tree you can't use the burning embers cashout vs creeps. stun will not last long enough (about 2,8 sec stun on a test of will at 7,5, 19 audacity) but it sure does a lot of damage in pve

Ummm ive hit 29k on creeps with the test of wills/embers combo and the stun does last long enough doesnt matter the Aud.

[Armdyl]

Ummm ive hit 29k on creeps with the test of wills/embers combo and the stun does last long enough doesnt matter the Aud.

[hanedizzle]

Was the cat supposed to be dying from the 29k or just flopping?lol

[spelunker]

This game is too easy and my class is OP, I do crazy damage to greenies with no aud. Ignore the store pots on my quickbar, I really truly honestly for reals want a challenge.

[Bond007]

This game is too easy and my class is OP, I do crazy damage to greenies with no aud. Ignore the store pots on my quickbar, I really truly honestly for reals want a challenge.

Knowing the OP myself, he really does play in a style that challenges himself. He self nerfs himself quite regularly (not using water lore in the majority of fights, not tar kiting in 1v1s or the plethora of other ridiculous things that most LMs do nowadays) even though he could decide to never hold himself back and use everything at his disposal just to be considered "BST LM ON DIS SRVR" because he would win 99% of the time because his class is naturally powerful at dueling, not because he's actually a skilled player.

I don't know about you, but in my mind, that deserves respect, not sarcasm. There's few players left in this game who are like that.

Having one store pot on his bar does not deny his skill, it only proves that he got a hobbit present one day. Especially since it's only one. Whoop dee doo. Oh, wait, he has one combat run speed boost left on his bar too, so he must P2W?



P.S. I know you don't know him yourself, so I'm not trying to beat ya down just because you said a few ignorant words. But, seriously, and I'm not trying to be an ###, but those WERE ignorant words, man.

[LEGENDofALL]

Knowing the OP myself, he really does play in a style that challenges himself. He self nerfs himself quite regularly (not using water lore in the majority of fights, not tar kiting in 1v1s or the plethora of other ridiculous things that most LMs do nowadays) even though he could decide to never hold himself back and use everything at his disposal just to be considered "BST LM ON DIS SRVR" because he would win 99% of the time because his class is naturally powerful at dueling, not because he's actually a skilled player.

I don't know about you, but in my mind, that deserves respect, not sarcasm. There's few players left in this game who are like that.

Having one store pot on his bar does not deny his skill, it only proves that he got a hobbit present one day. Especially since it's only one. Whoop dee doo. Oh, wait, he has one combat run speed boost left on his bar too, so he must P2W?



P.S. I know you don't know him yourself, so I'm not trying to beat ya down just because you said a few ignorant words. But, seriously, and I'm not trying to be an ###, but those WERE ignorant words, man.

Can one not handle sarcasm? Respect what is this real life and a job?????


he may or may not have gotten them with hobbit presents only he will know but i did find what that guy said funny, sounds to me you need to get a sense of humor myself and just relax and have fun.

[Bond007]

Can one not handle sarcasm? Respect what is this real life and a job?????


he may or may not have gotten them with hobbit presents only he will know but i did find what that guy said funny, sounds to me you need to get a sense of humor myself and just relax and have fun.

./shrug

I wasn't talking about the humor of Spelunker's post, just wanted to make it clear that the OP definitely isn't that kind of player. He's genuine. And just relaxing and having fun has nothing to do with backing up someone for being a good player, lol... it's more "relaxed" and "fun" if a good player is misinterpreted as being bad?

Obviously his post was sarcastic, if I didn't realize it was sarcastic, why would I have responded in the first place?

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Anywho, can we not derail the thread anymore?

[spelunker]

Knowing the OP myself, he really does play in a style that challenges himself. He self nerfs himself quite regularly (not using water lore in the majority of fights, not tar kiting in 1v1s or the plethora of other ridiculous things that most LMs do nowadays) even though he could decide to never hold himself back and use everything at his disposal just to be considered "BST LM ON DIS SRVR" because he would win 99% of the time because his class is naturally powerful at dueling, not because he's actually a skilled player.

I don't know about you, but in my mind, that deserves respect, not sarcasm. There's few players left in this game who are like that.

Having one store pot on his bar does not deny his skill, it only proves that he got a hobbit present one day. Especially since it's only one. Whoop dee doo. Oh, wait, he has one combat run speed boost left on his bar too, so he must P2W?



P.S. I know you don't know him yourself, so I'm not trying to beat ya down just because you said a few ignorant words. But, seriously, and I'm not trying to be an ###, but those WERE ignorant words, man.

If I were going to make an ignorant statement, I would have chosen to talk about killing a solo greenie BA at a rez circle, while grouped with 5 others including a yellow captain.

Its sad how P2W trash items have become a perfectly acceptable part of the moors. Turbine might make the rules, but its open PvP and it could be fantastic even as poorly developed as it is, but the quality of the playerbase will never support that.

[Armdyl]

Was the cat supposed to be dying from the 29k or just flopping?lol

lol not sure..maybe a little bit of both?

[Armdyl]

If I were going to make an ignorant statement, I would have chosen to talk about killing a solo greenie BA at a rez circle, while grouped with 5 others including a yellow captain.

Its sad how P2W trash items have become a perfectly acceptable part of the moors. Turbine might make the rules, but its open PvP and it could be fantastic even as poorly developed as it is, but the quality of the playerbase will never support that.

I agree will just about everything you just said, especially how the OP is saying he or she is far too OP when your using all your extra LS damage boosts (BE + Ancient Craft) on a Rank 1 BA that has prob. little to no audacity and no corruptions. different story if you get that on a r9+ creep. +1 for the l33t store bought pots on your hot bar.

[LEGENDofALL]

I do find it funny his friend said he loves a challenge and does use WL sometimes in 1v1s and not all his skills so why the incombat buff and run away buff on the tool bar? if youre in for a challenge you surely dont ever need those.


Secondly how the heck has he gotten away with that name so long LOL it wouldnt have lasted on my server.

[Bond007]

I agree will just about everything you just said, especially how the OP is saying he or she is far too OP when your using all your extra LS damage boosts (BE + Ancient Craft) on a Rank 1 BA that has prob. little to no audacity and no corruptions. different story if you get that on a r9+ creep. +1 for the l33t store bought pots on your hot bar.

He stated that the damage he was talking about is unmitigated. Aka, just like impale's bleed damage, it hits the same for low ranks and mitigation steroid opponents.

I do find it funny his friend said he loves a challenge and does use WL sometimes in 1v1s and not all his skills

I said he does not use WL in the majority of fights.

not using water lore in the majority of fights,

so why the incombat buff and run away buff on the tool bar? if youre in for a challenge you surely dont ever need those.

I don't know what his reason for having the items on his bar is, so I won't speak for him, but as far as my opinion goes...

I have never had an issue using "store" items that I have gotten from hobbit presents in a fight against someone who's popping store items as well. For example, if they use a store brand and have four lines of store buffs, I have no issue popping a hobbit present store pot to get the kill, and laugh about it.

I see no reason in rewarding people for using the store, so why not fight fire with fire? I'm not supporting the store by using a hobbit present gift, but rather I'm simply denying a kill from someone who IS using the store. That's the way I see it.

[BirdofHermes]

He stated that the damage he was talking about is unmitigated. Aka, just like impale's bleed damage, it hits the same for low ranks and mitigation steroid opponents.

Audacity and mitigations work very differently. It is true BA mitigations make little difference when AC is involved, but audacity makes a world of difference.

[Armdyl]

Audacity and mitigations work very differently. It is true BA mitigations make little difference when AC is involved, but audacity makes a world of difference.

[Bond007]

Audacity and mitigations work very differently. It is true BA mitigations make little difference when AC is involved, but audacity makes a world of difference.

Okay, so he was talking about the audacity difference between a r9+ creep and a r1?

Funny, the OP addressed that too. He mentioned that the numbers in the screenshot were a "lucky hit," but the numbers against full audacity creeps are just as disgustingly high.

By the way, de Ancient craft damage bonus you see in the picture is umitigated. it will hit for about 18k on full audacity warleaders.

Did i mention this damage is done in the yellow (CC) line?

this madness needs to stop.

I bolded some words, since obviously they didn't make it to Undertakerxx's eyes the first time around.

[BirdofHermes]

Okay, so he was talking about the audacity difference between a r9+ creep and a r1?

Rank does not necessarily have a role in it, some low ranks have full audacity simply because they're alts.

Funny, the OP addressed that too. He mentioned that the numbers in the screenshot were a "lucky hit,"

They were a very lucky hit indeed. 1 crit and 3 devastates in the 4 hits used, and with a cappy/burg in the group to possibly add marks & buffs.

but the numbers against full audacity creeps are just as disgustingly high.

While it is true a LM's yellow line burst damage is too high (as it is supposed to be a support line), the hits against full audacity creeps, especially WLs/Reavers, especially decent ones that actually trait crit def and use mit pots, and especially higher ranked ones, are not as disgustingly high. Even if they're lucky enough to devastate 75% and crit 25% of the hits.
21.3k -0.2%(full aud vs cheap aud) = 17k
17k - 0.3% (buffed WL mitigation leftover after AC) = 12k
Then depending on how much crit def is traited, that number goes down further.
And there is a possibility captain/burglar were using marks/buffs for extra damage, but we don't know.

Does this make it okay for a LM to hit very high in yellow line?
No.
I'd much rather trade in damage for decent debuffs in yellow line, it's supposed to be support after all. I would like it to be like a blue Guardian, low DPS but being excellent in its intended role. A yellow LM isn't like that atm.

However, it also doesn't make the situation as grievous as OP makes it out to be (no disrespect to OP). It is a misrepresentation of a class' regular abilities by pitting it against the near weakest possible foe (r1 BA) with the nigh best possible luck (3 devastates and a crit with a possibility of cappy/burg marks & buffs). I can just as easily take out my BA and keep shooting an unranked, non-aud RK with a Reaver's armour debuff until I get a devastate with VT. The RK gets one-shotted, but that doesn't make a BA OP. It still makes a BA pretty underpowered in the current PvMP environment compared to Reavers/Wargs/Warleaders, just as a LM gets overshadowed by Minstrels/Guardians/Burglars/Captains/Rune-keepers on the other side. Yellow LMs and BAs are one-trick ponies with a burst damage skill, and if they're lucky in the right situation they can seem a lot more powerful than they are (the latter being true for every class really).

I think it is admirable that OP wishes his own class to be more challenging as currently freepside is still pretty faceroll unless you're facing a decent Reaver/Warg. However, with the creep buffs (finally) and freep nerfs in U13, and with far more powerful classes than LM around (what's that class with 45m range aoe non-induction DPS, burst damage nukes, with best healing and a 30s CD flop-dead skill again?), I feel that calling out for a nerf for LM right now is somewhat odd. I'd just suggest waiting it out for a few weeks to see how this update affects the classes.

[Bond007]

Does this make it okay for a LM to hit very high in yellow line?
No.
I'd much rather trade in damage for decent debuffs in yellow line, it's supposed to be support after all. I would like it to be like a blue Guardian, low DPS but being excellent in its intended role. A yellow LM isn't like that atm.

I think this is the point the OP was trying to bring across. A yellow LM should not hit this hard. Period. Even with audacity added in, it's too hard, and mitigations don't change it, so once you're full audacity you have no defense against it as a creep. You can't grab more crit defense, you can't grab more mitigations, you just have to cross your fingers and hope the LM doesn't get lucky. That is poor mechanics at its finest.

What made me decide to post at all was that instead of discussing the issue, people were more interested in belittling a perfectly good player just because he has several store items on his toolbar. A perfectly good player making a perfectly relevant point, no less.

Let's see what U13 changed.

[BirdofHermes]

I think this is the point the OP was trying to bring across. A yellow LM should not hit this hard. Period. Even with audacity added in, it's too hard, and mitigations don't change it, so once you're full audacity you have no defense against it as a creep. You can't grab more crit defense, you can't grab more mitigations, you just have to cross your fingers and hope the LM doesn't get lucky. That is poor mechanics at its finest.

That's my point as go further. It isn't right, but it isn't nearly as bad as what OP suggests. Yellow LM has too high burst damage imo, but it doesn't nearly have what Minis/Burgs/Hunters have against a similar target, not even close.

[Armdyl]

Okay, so he was talking about the audacity difference between a r9+ creep and a r1?

Funny, the OP addressed that too. He mentioned that the numbers in the screenshot were a "lucky hit," but the numbers against full audacity creeps are just as disgustingly high.



I bolded some words, since obviously they didn't make it to Undertakerxx's eyes the first time around.

you must have some pretty bad warleaders on your server as I have never been hit that hard except by minis and good hunters and lightning rkers on my warleader pre u13 with those pretty bad mitigations

[Ravyrn]

Nice to see someone voice concern over one of their own skills that they feel is overpowered and try to address it be met with such exceptional dialogue and in-depth discussion. As someone who has played against the player fairly often over the last half year since HD, I can say with certainty he is not an ezmoder, store-user, and is frequently solo. But to stay true to the route this thread has taken, I will depart with:

[Bond007]

those pretty bad mitigations

.....

Ahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha

You really are dense aren't you?


./exit thread