Defilers = OP

[Manvett]

Title says it all.

The team failed to find a middle ground yet again, and made us insane healing/debuffing monsters. I can't fathom how the statistics numbers, skill mechanics and their impact on the enemy players aren't tested more, but this is ridiculous. From a marginal class who got no love for years you go into another extreme and make the class unbeatable with 0 inductions for gourds and debuffs, which basically makes us Hot based Dot machinegun. WL+defiler duo will be unbeatable, hell, WL's wouldn't even be necessary anymore if they didn't have the incombat rez and a bubble.

I don't like it. It's too much of a jump, too big of an extreme. That is all.

[Noldorlord777]

Title says it all.

The team failed to find a middle ground yet again, and made us insane healing/debuffing monsters. I can't fathom how the statistics numbers, skill mechanics and their impact on the enemy players aren't tested more, but this is ridiculous. From a marginal class who got no love for years you go into another extreme and make the class unbeatable with 0 inductions for gourds and debuffs, which basically makes us Hot based Dot machinegun. WL+defiler duo will be unbeatable, hell, WL's wouldn't even be necessary anymore if they didn't have the incombat rez and a bubble.

I don't like it. It's too much of a jump, too big of an extreme. That is all.

I couldnt have put this better myself.

[Seglord]

you're probably right, because I know, that you know your class, however consider this, wait a bit for the 1st agers and new freep builds to work itself in, and balance is supposed to be rvr not 1v1.

again you're probably right, but its all still new atm.

[Ravyrn]

you're probably right, because I know, that you know your class, however consider this, wait a bit for the 1st agers and new freep builds to work itself in, and balance is supposed to be rvr not 1v1.

again you're probably right, but its all still new atm.

At the very least, freeps are going to have to learn to put healing debuffs on creeps. I agree, it does seem a bit much at the moment.

[Moors-Battlemaster]

At the very least, freeps are going to have to learn to put healing debuffs on creeps. I agree, it does seem a bit much at the moment.

I am shocked at the prospect freeps will have to use their full arsenal of skills now to win, rather than facerolling like they have since RoI.

[ulza]

As 1 of the few active defilers on vilya (pre u13) i was capable of healing stuff. I logged in today and i found the defiler class broken. Not to mention 10 defilers camping gv.

Defiler needed some buff (fungal spores heal on expiration change to initial heal would have done miracles). We never asked for insta cast gourd or debuffs (they seem broken because you need to stand still anyways).
We did ask for a non cooldown on rez.

Well i hope they nerf defiler like it was before.

[freaker]

When I hear "overpowered defilers" I think back to the 14-18 minnies who come out in raids/groups duo's that have done nothing but destroy Silverlodes RvR..I actually like this change in pace..Maybe it will give freeps something to think about when they stack heals, healing vs healing is the new Raid vs Raid.

[Blackheart-Fury]

At the very least, freeps are going to have to learn to put healing debuffs on creeps.

This is funny and sad at the same time....

[mrfigglesworth]

When I hear "overpowered defilers" I think back to the 14-18 minnies who come out in raids/groups duo's that have done nothing but destroy Silverlodes RvR..I actually like this change in pace..Maybe it will give freeps something to think about when they stack heals, healing vs healing is the new Raid vs Raid.

im actually really looking forward to zrinko's U13 video.

[Ravyrn]

I am shocked at the prospect freeps will have to use their full arsenal of skills now to win, rather than facerolling like they have since RoI.

Sadly, all the players who would need to learn how to properly use their full arsenal of skills, are likely to flop over to creep while the weather's good on that side and likely roll a defiler. I've been creep since HD because that side could use the most help on our server. Log in today and all kinds of names I haven't seen in ages, names I've never heard of before, or see players who have been playing freep exclusively since HD out on their creeps.

Since it was a GV camp (which never happens on Gladden) I decide to dust off my hunter. After I got him sorted out I go down the stairs and see 5+ defilers and about 9 other creeps camping two <95 lvl freeps. I'll wait to hold my judgement on the changes to PVMP this update until I have first ages and a couple of weeks of actions go by.

Sadly, I feel they missed the mark on this "balancing" and instead of finally having some nice, balanced fights, we'll just end up with a lot more of the same with many of the players who were ezmoding on freepside now gleefully doing much of the same on their creep alts.

[Moors-Battlemaster]

Sadly, all the players who would need to learn how to properly use their full arsenal of skills, are likely to flop over to creep while the weather's good on that side and likely roll a defiler. I've been creep since HD because that side could use the most help on our server. Log in today and all kinds of names I haven't seen in ages, names I've never heard of before, or see players who have been playing freep exclusively since HD out on their creeps.

On Brandy, those people won't find themselves getting into raids or many groups

[Ravyrn]

On Brandy, those people won't find themselves getting into raids or many groups

Yeah, that is certainly my sentiment. Unfortunately it looks like I'll be heading over to freep this udpate. Fortunately the leaders on creepside over the last few weeks saw this coming, so we already compiled a list of creep alts of players we suspected would do this to the best of our ability given the lack of a functioning alt finder these days.

[Mordem_the_RK]

+1 freak, seglord. Defilers now rival minis. All creeps are finally scaled properly. We faught some high rank freeps with one mini, a cappy, and they held their ground, it was, for the most part, a draw. Give me the 12K aoes that minis can spam and heal the whole group easily enough! The playing field is obviously equal. Of course there will be more filers on, just like there are more of every class when an update comes out and gives them a boost they rightly deserved. Filers came out of the closet today because playing a filer before was for nothing but freep bait. Filers couldn't go anywhere alone, and hardly helped a group. It's never going to be completely balanced. But par for par, Freeps vs Creeps is much more balanced now than ever before. Thank you turbine for giving creeps what they finally deserved.

GV camps will happen because the freeps have not fully come into the moors yet. In time, we will have many epic battles!

[D3str0yer]

When I hear "overpowered defilers" I think back to the 14-18 minnies who come out in raids/groups duo's that have done nothing but destroy Silverlodes RvR..I actually like this change in pace..Maybe it will give freeps something to think about when they stack heals, healing vs healing is the new Raid vs Raid.

The Problem is that there is usually the same type of players that gets on board the next train to easymode world...

[Ravyrn]

Of course there will be more filers on, just like there are more of every class when an update comes out and gives them a boost they rightly deserved.

Read: FOTM.

Basically many of the guards, yellow-lined cappies, minis, and burgs will be fighting the good fight with you on their defiler!

[Ravyrn]

I think it is fitting that the night following U13 dawns a blood moon.

[Nouri]

You know, I never thought Turbine would be able to pull off another feat as noteworthy as when they let the 62% audacity bug and no mitigations to the new damage types go live with HD's rollout. However, I should not have doubted them. U13 proved me wrong. I'm wondering if they have a master plan, though. Perhaps they plan to introduce catapults for the sole purpose of killing defilers.

[Wilkor]

Ah the delicious freep tears. Yup, now that defilers aren't the pushover doormat they were previously it's time for freeps to throw their hands up, sob and wail and generally prostrate themselves before Turbine so they might fix this tragedy. Don't worry freeps, I'm sure it'll get resolved damn quick so you can get back to your skilless facerolling just like before. Or you could roll a warden.

[Ravyrn]

You know, I never thought Turbine would be able to pull off another feat as noteworthy as when they let the 62% audacity bug and no mitigations to the new damage types go live with HD's rollout. However, I should not have doubted them. U13 proved me wrong. I'm wondering if they have a master plan, though. Perhaps they plan to introduce catapults for the sole purpose of killing defilers.

I don't generally keep up with the forums. What was the 62% audacity bug?

[spelunker]

I don't generally keep up with the forums. What was the 62% audacity bug?

The first ~3 weeks of HD every creep had a chance upon logging in for their audacity to be counted twice (as in 60% damage reduction, etc). This chance was high enough that after a handful of times logging in, most every creep had it applied to them, and this bug was not fixed with a logout. So essentially every creep with max audacity at HD launch had -60% incoming damage until U12.1.

Whats especially worth noting is that this bug existed and bugged in HD beta around build 3 or 4 (out of 6 builds, iirc), and still made it to live.

[Fralin]

The impact of flippers would be easily countered with a lockout timer that is several hours long something along the lines of 4-5 hours would seem reasonable

[GrandCru]

Title says it all.

The team failed to find a middle ground yet again, and made us insane healing/debuffing monsters. I can't fathom how the statistics numbers, skill mechanics and their impact on the enemy players aren't tested more, but this is ridiculous. From a marginal class who got no love for years you go into another extreme and make the class unbeatable with 0 inductions for gourds and debuffs, which basically makes us Hot based Dot machinegun. WL+defiler duo will be unbeatable, hell, WL's wouldn't even be necessary anymore if they didn't have the incombat rez and a bubble.

I don't like it. It's too much of a jump, too big of an extreme. That is all.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ealing-balance
I failed to see your contribution to it. Yet you draw conclusions after few hours of Live.
It's at least the 3rd time Defiler is hardly soloable. The pendulum swings, people would know that if they'd shown up before RoI.

You don't like it, want a challenge, back to your chimp, you've got few weeks left.

[Ravyrn]

The first ~3 weeks of HD every creep had a chance upon logging in for their audacity to be counted twice (as in 60% damage reduction, etc). This chance was high enough that after a handful of times logging in, most every creep had it applied to them, and this bug was not fixed with a logout. So essentially every creep with max audacity at HD launch had -60% incoming damage until U12.1.

Whats especially worth noting is that this bug existed and bugged in HD beta around build 3 or 4 (out of 6 builds, iirc), and still made it to live.

Well, that's cute. Thanks for the 411. I didnt even know this existed.

[Manvett]

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ealing-balance
I failed to see your contribution to it. Yet you draw conclusions after few hours of Live.
It's at least the 3rd time Defiler is hardly soloable. The pendulum swings, people would know that if they'd shown up before RoI.

You don't like it, want a challenge, back to your chimp, you've got few weeks left.

The pendulum has swung multiple times from the time of ROI, so your attempt to negate my opinion/rant based solely on the fact that I haven't PVPed before that, (and you have), is flawed. No, I have not contributed in that thread, but I saw a lot of meaningful posts aimed at various opinions regarding the power of the defiler - some people were thinking it's too powerful, some thought it's just right - there was nothing even close to consensus reached in the end. The concern about drawing conclusions just after a few hours of live might be valid, if the difference just wasn't too big, but no - my defiler can easily withstand multiple DPS classes at once, and no, not just the low ranks. And I don't think First Agers will do THAT much difference. Regarding playing my champ, besides the fact that he is retired, I like my community on creepside and see no reason to flip sides for every patch when the balance shifts. If that's your style, that's fine, but I like my current consistency.

[Muzzard]

Title says it all.

It's about time defilers got to experience the excitement of being somewhat able to kill something!