[Suggestion] Guild Crafted Essence Recipes

[Almagnus1]

One thing missing from the current implementation of LotRO is guild support for the essences.

Here's a solution to do just that, extending the current rep essences to cover all of them, and providing upgrade paths from the minor (yellow) to the supreme (orange), so that all level 100 essences have a use.

For starters, here's what profession gets what essences:

Cook	Jewler	Metalsmith	Scholar	Tailor	Weaponsmith	Woodworker
Finesse	Fate	Crit Defence	Tact Mast	Agility	Phys mast	Crit Rating
Vitality	Tact Mit	Might	Will	Phys Mit	Vitality	Fate
Morale	Evade	Resistence	Power	Power	Block	Parry

And here's the templates for each upgrade step.

Major essence:
1x Minor Essence
1x Small Guild Widget
3x low grade mat
1x medium grade mat

Greater Essence:
1x Major Essence
1x Medium Guild Widget
1x Emerald Shard
3x medium grade mat
1x high grade mat

Supreme Essence:
1x Greater Essence
1x Large Guild Widget
1x Emerald Shard
3x high grade mat
1x Universal Solvent

Thoughts/comments/suggestions/flames?

[danielbrown1969]

I love this idea. The crafting in-game is in dire need of upgrading anyhow and this might be the cornerstone upon which to (re)build. I open around 100 Platinum reward boxes weekly and still have not even come close to obtaining the supreme essences I desire. The other day I crafted 5 majors @ 78% crit chance and got 1 supreme. Yeah, bad RNG but those major essences were hard to come by (and expensive). At least with this idea, there would be a 'guaranteed' crit once a week or whatever the cool down is.

[Manulele]

I doubt that's gonna happen anytime soon. Took them 2 years just to update the icons on crafting materials, they're ignoring crafting for future update too. I don't think they'll touch the system at all before end of the year, being lucky.

[Warmutkan]

Increasing the number of essence crafting recipes would be a great boost to players who don't want to spend all day at Morlad. Gating the recipes behind a guilded cooldown would prevent flooding the market. E.g., 1 day for major, 3 for greater, 7 for supremes. Adding recipe tiers for supreme through westemnet would also allow players to actually use the fairly rare essence gear at lower levels.

This would obviously take dev time, but it would not require any new artwork or icons - all of the components already exist ingame and have their own icons.

[Enrico411]

Great idea love it!!

[PKCrichton]

One thing missing from the current implementation of LotRO is guild support for the essences.

Here's a solution to do just that, extending the current rep essences to cover all of them, and providing upgrade paths from the minor (yellow) to the supreme (orange), so that all level 100 essences have a use.

For starters, here's what profession gets what essences:

Cook	Jewler	Metalsmith	Scholar	Tailor	Weaponsmith	Woodworker
Finesse	Fate	Crit Defence	Tact Mast	Agility	Phys mast	Crit Rating
Vitality	Tact Mit	Might	Will	Phys Mit	Vitality	Fate
Morale	Evade	Resistence	Power	Power	Block	Parry

And here's the templates for each upgrade step.

Major essence:
1x Minor Essence
1x Small Guild Widget
3x low grade mat
1x medium grade mat

Greater Essence:
1x Major Essence
1x Medium Guild Widget
1x Emerald Shard
3x medium grade mat
1x high grade mat

Supreme Essence:
1x Greater Essence
1x Large Guild Widget
1x Emerald Shard
3x high grade mat
1x Universal Solvent

Thoughts/comments/suggestions/flames?

I like your suggestions and I would like to add that the Devs in the Livestream pointed out that they saw and were watching another thread. I'd suggest adding this to that. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?566740-Tier-9-Crafting-What-needs-to-be-done-with-it

Something else I'd been toying with the thought of is for for the Guild Recipes to not require the Universal Solvents. They don't drop as often as they should as it is and have no in game barter mechanic in place so requiring them for guild recipes seems a bit off.

[spelunker]

No reason not to have Guild recipes for essences, though I do dislike both this and the DA recipes only letting certain professions craft certain essences. Some, such as Woodworker and metalsmith seem to get the short end of the stick in relative value of the essences they can make compared to those that make morale/mastery/mits ones. Any profession can make crafted guild relics with any of the possible outputs, I'd like to see the same here.

Something else I'd been toying with the thought of is for for the Guild Recipes to not require the Universal Solvents. They don't drop as often as they should as it is and have no in game barter mechanic in place so requiring them for guild recipes seems a bit off.

That, or add in universal solvents to the skirm camp.

[Almagnus1]

I like your suggestions and I would like to add that the Devs in the Livestream pointed out that they saw and were watching another thread. I'd suggest adding this to that. ttps://www.lotro.com/forums/showthre...e-done-with-it

Done.

Something else I'd been toying with the thought of is for for the Guild Recipes to not require the Universal Solvents. They don't drop as often as they should as it is and have no in game barter mechanic in place so requiring them for guild recipes seems a bit off.

Yeah, I don't know what to do with them, really.

Thematically, it seems like they should be integrated into essence crafting, however, their rarity is basically store-only, so that's a huge turn off on them.

I left them in place as the last upgrade is the Purple => Orange recipe.

[Scirocco]

This needs to be done! Give us a reason to get crafting tools out of mothballs...

[borges_maze]

This would be wonderful. Frees us from W. Gondor dailies and gives max level crafting more purpose in one stroke.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

No reason not to have Guild recipes for essences, though I do dislike both this and the DA recipes only letting certain professions craft certain essences. Some, such as Woodworker and metalsmith seem to get the short end of the stick in relative value of the essences they can make compared to those that make morale/mastery/mits ones.

Yeah. Woodworkers have ALWAYS been shafted when it comes to crafting.

[Almagnus1]

Yeah. Woodworkers have ALWAYS been shafted when it comes to crafting.

How would you reassign the essences in the bottom row of the table?

That's the only row that can be changed, as it's the essences that are currently not-craftable.

The other rows follow the existing essence distribution.

[spelunker]

How would you reassign the essences in the bottom row of the table?

That's the only row that can be changed, as it's the essences that are currently not-craftable.

The other rows follow the existing essence distribution.

Don't follow the existing essence distribution, make every essence available via guild for every profession.

[danielbrown1969]

Increasing the number of essence crafting recipes would be a great boost to players who don't want to spend all day at Morlad.

To what are you referring? I've been lvl 100 less than a month now so all I have been doing to essences is running mass BBs, doing my DA dailies/training exercise, farming WBs in W.Gondor daily and checking the AH and world chat often. Is there another way to obtain essences? I am in dire need of some Supreme Physical Mastery and Supreme Morale.

[Almagnus1]

To what are you referring? I've been lvl 100 less than a month now so all I have been doing to essences is running mass BBs, doing my DA dailies/training exercise, farming WBs in W.Gondor daily and checking the AH and world chat often. Is there another way to obtain essences? I am in dire need of some Supreme Physical Mastery and Supreme Morale.

We're getting a repeat of the West Gondor crafting recipes in East Gondor.

[Warmutkan]

To what are you referring? I've been lvl 100 less than a month now so all I have been doing to essences is running mass BBs, doing my DA dailies/training exercise, farming WBs in W.Gondor daily and checking the AH and world chat often. Is there another way to obtain essences? I am in dire need of some Supreme Physical Mastery and Supreme Morale.

The reflecting pool at Morlad lets you run The Shadow of Morthond repeatedly to pick up major essences that you can then use for crafting. The farming options you listed are also viable alternatives.

[peepino]

Cook	Jewler	Metalsmith	Scholar	Tailor	Weaponsmith	Woodworker
Finesse	Fate	Crit Defence	Tact Mast	Agility	Phys mast	Crit Rating
Vitality	Tact Mit	Might	Will	Phys Mit	Vitality	Fate
Morale	Evade	Resistence	Power	Power	Block	Parry

Hi, I agree with your idea but not with all points. This system are not usefull for all players. For exemple, I'm a burglar scholar, so I have the scholar guild and with your idea a scholar just can craft power, tactical mastery and will essence, and here are the problem, I need nothing of they, so, if I want to craft some morale or physical mastery essence I can't because I'm not a cook or a weaponsmith (and I don't have any rerol with cook or weaponsmith). So, I think this would be much beter if all profession can craft every type of essence (with your idea of restriction of course).
I hope u have understand my bad english

[Dark-Rebel]

A simple way. Just add essences to guild barter, we can use the same item of crafted relics. Essences should be bound!
In this way you can take any essence.

[Atarandir]

I realy like this idea! But I would remove essences from ingredients.

[Almagnus1]

Don't follow the existing essence distribution, make every essence available via guild for every profession.

Hi, I agree with your idea but not with all points. This system are not usefull for all players. For exemple, I'm a burglar scholar, so I have the scholar guild and with your idea a scholar just can craft power, tactical mastery and will essence, and here are the problem, I need nothing of they, so, if I want to craft some morale or physical mastery essence I can't because I'm not a cook or a weaponsmith (and I don't have any rerol with cook or weaponsmith). So, I think this would be much beter if all profession can craft every type of essence (with your idea of restriction of course).
I hope u have understand my bad english

To cover both points, I'm against having all professions be able to produce all essences because:
A) The point is to throw crafter's a bone here, which is why this should be used to improve the value of what the weaker professions can make. Part of that is giving every profession at least one essence that a lot of people want, so that way all the crafting professions can contribute to the economy.

B) That's **A LOT** of recipes, especially when you have that many essences and three upgrades per essence type.

I realy like this idea! But I would remove essences from ingredients.

The point is to allow an upgrade path, so we're actually encouraged to keep the minor essences, rather than just vendoring them now.

Although, being able to trade some of the guild crafting widgets + shard for an arbitrary minor essence does seem like an potential starting point.

I'll have to think on that and post back later...

[spelunker]

To cover both points, I'm against having all professions be able to produce all essences because:
A) The point is to throw crafter's a bone here, which is why this should be used to improve the value of what the weaker professions can make. Part of that is giving every profession at least one essence that a lot of people want, so that way all the crafting professions can contribute to the economy.

B) That's **A LOT** of recipes, especially when you have that many essences and three upgrades per essence type.

A) how does this do that? A very small number of essence types completely dominate market demand and values, and not every profession can make one of these, no matter how you divide up who gets what. Furthermore, due to the rather meaningless difference between some greater essences and their superior counterparts (morale and tact mastery) the crafter's who can produce these items on a 3 day cycle will be far better off than tthose who 'need' to produce supremes to get any market value.

B) how is this a valid response? A lot of recipes? It's not like people have to go out and win the rng drop to collect them, the guild would have them. Even if the number of recipes were somehow a significant issue, crafting has this fancy multi - output system where 1 recipe could be set up to allow for every output in that tier. Or we could craft a barter piece to trade with the guild for the essence, like crafted relics.

[Almagnus1]

A) how does this do that? A very small number of essence types completely dominate market demand and values, and not every profession can make one of these, no matter how you divide up who gets what. Furthermore, due to the rather meaningless difference between some greater essences and their superior counterparts (morale and tact mastery) the crafter's who can produce these items on a 3 day cycle will be far better off than tthose who 'need' to produce supremes to get any market value.

Ok, so how would you reassign the essences to a profession so that each profession only gets 3-4 essences, all essences are covered, and everybody has something worthwhile?

B) how is this a valid response? A lot of recipes? It's not like people have to go out and win the rng drop to collect them, the guild would have them. Even if the number of recipes were somehow a significant issue, crafting has this fancy multi - output system where 1 recipe could be set up to allow for every output in that tier. Or we could craft a barter piece to trade with the guild for the essence, like crafted relics.

I rather like the design philosophy we had with the crafting system of interdependence back when SoA was launched, that is, one crafting vocation is not sufficient for everything. The advantage to this philosophy is that it forced players into rolling crafting alts if they wanted to be completely self sufficient, yet it also allowed for every proffesion to put something on the market that is desireable - or at least, that was the goal anyhow.

It's this asymmetry that helps provide more of a reason to interact with the AH, and helps generate more traffic on world chat, which in turn, makes the game feel more alive because we have more people asking for stuff again.

I don't see how that's a bad thing.

[spelunker]

Ok, so how would you reassign the essences to a profession so that each profession only gets 3-4 essences, all essences are covered, and everybody has something worthwhile?

I would have thought my previous post on this was clear. I wouldn't try to, since it's not really possible.

I rather like the design philosophy we had with the crafting system of interdependence back when SoA was launched, that is, one crafting vocation is not sufficient for everything. The advantage to this philosophy is that it forced players into rolling crafting alts if they wanted to be completely self sufficient, yet it also allowed for every proffesion to put something on the market that is desireable - or at least, that was the goal anyhow.

It's this asymmetry that helps provide more of a reason to interact with the AH, and helps generate more traffic on world chat, which in turn, makes the game feel more alive because we have more people asking for stuff again.

I don't see how that's a bad thing.

I don't see it as a significant change to AH interactions. The demand for raw morale, tact mastery, and physical mastery will remain very high since some people will still be using more than a dozen of them in their build, while things like crit, crit d, Inc healing, and mits will only be used once or twice and mainstats, bpe, and resistance only situationally.

While I agree that parts of the SoA crafting process was ok, the grind was awful, and we're now what, 4 years removed from crafting interdependence?


At least we've moved past recipes as an issue...

[Almagnus1]

I don't see it as a significant change to AH interactions. The demand for raw morale, tact mastery, and physical mastery will remain very high since some people will still be using more than a dozen of them in their build, while things like crit, crit d, Inc healing, and mits will only be used once or twice and mainstats, bpe, and resistance only situationally.

I would rate Crit a bit higher than you do, as crit is pretty much crucial for everyone in the game, especially the healers, as heals can crit. Same is true to tanks to a lesser degree, especially since DPS tanking seems to be the direction Turbine's going now >.>

I do think you are underrating might (captains), agi (burgs, hunters, and wardens) and will (LM), although Agi is the weaker of those three primary stats.

The rest come down to the glass cannon v semi-tanky character argument, and there's strong and valid arguments on both sides of the fence for that one.

Edit:
But this goes to show that what one person values as an essence differs from another, so there's quite a bit more marketability of the essences than what you make it out to be.

[Vulcwen]

I would rate Crit a bit higher than you do, as crit is pretty much crucial for everyone in the game, especially the healers, as heals can crit. Same is true to tanks to a lesser degree, especially since DPS tanking seems to be the direction Turbine's going now >.>

I do think you are underrating might (captains), agi (burgs, hunters, and wardens) and will (LM), although Agi is the weaker of those three primary stats.

The rest come down to the glass cannon v semi-tanky character argument, and there's strong and valid arguments on both sides of the fence for that one.

Yes, but with 1-2 crit essences, you're capped already, so you don't need more.
Primary stats are useful for classes that use both masteries, and for burgs/hunters/wardens for the extra avoidances (and if you stack it, you'll also cap crit easier.. and won't need to use a crit essence at all).