Morale question.

[Thorenduil]

Hi everybody. I started to leveling a guard (He's level 30 now) and im gonna do powerlevel all the way to 100. ill need tankish gear for the t2 runs.
I heard guards need 40k-45k morale, and I wanna check how many morale essences I will need.
Anyone can give me a favor and tell me whats their morale on guard with the gold jewel only (no virtues, nothing but jewels) so i can know what to do to get around 43k?

tnx!

~Thorenduil

[Chris91]

You'll need around 30-35 morale essences


Total amount of essence slots is 42 (5 per armour piece, 3 on necklace and both bracelets, 2 on pocket and 1 on a pelagir ring)

You'll get block rating from relics and guardians ward
You'll get parry from adaptability and guardians ward (maybe 1 or 2 essences extra)
Both guardians ward legacies should be on your belt for +3900 block and parry rating
Incoming healing from relics (maybe 1 or 2 essences extra)
2 or 3 tact mitigation essences (also max virtues and some points in the blue line guardians ward tactical mitigation buff)

From there on just stack morale

[Kaern48]

I didn't have the other tanky earring so I've got the gold dps one instead but,

http://tinypic.com/r/2ds5tl/8



So 17.9k morale.

[siipperi]

You'll need around 30-35 morale essences


Total amount of essence slots is 42 (5 per armour piece, 3 on necklace and both bracelets, 2 on pocket and 1 on a pelagir ring)

Yup, however I would suggest to get that 40k, I have seen that its much easier as a tank to get in pugs if you have atleast that and why not, 50k morale is pretty much norm for high end guardian. I am personally running around 62k with all buffs, evade is a bit low but I just cant die so dont really care.

[Sumarr]

can I see your build bi cos I run at 42.7k buff whit 2 armour whit 5 slot ess, missing great moral ess that wood bring me to 45k but 50k+? how is your stats? sorry on spelling not may nat langvage

[Magentix]

There are two mainstream ways of building a guardian: a rock or a sponge.

A sponge usually has very high morale and mits, average BPE and nothing else to show for. His job is to just spam taunts and soak damage. Because of the lower BPE, he puts some strain on the healer, but the higher morale pool also makes it more forgiving when a healer is stunned. On power draining fights such as the LT of DG, this type of tank is a pain to keep alive. It only became a really viable build when the whole threat mechanic was scrapped and taunts were buffed (permataunt).

A rock is a tank who focuses on maximizing all other defensive stats, some offensive stats and only then morale. They cap their mits and BP, get their E and Res very high, aim for 50% CritDef and also invest in Might and Finesse instead of just secondary stats. Once those stats are okay, they fill all other slots with morale. The idea here is that they take less damage through high avoidances and mitigations, giving healers an easier time. They also focus on outgoing damage and finesse so they can't wipe because a skill got resisted or missed. The added bonus is that they output way more damage than a sponge, facilitating the fight because the boss dies faster.

An extra benefit to being a sponge is the insane amount Warrior's Heart heals for. The flip side is that rocks can tank a lot of mobs for a long while without needing heals. Also keep in mind that in Dome of Stars, a lot of mobs have skills that remove 80% of your max morale. This basically turns sponges into 10k morale squishies, while rocks become 7.5k avoidance beasts.

I like this comparison because the analogies match: a sponge can absorb a lot but hardly hurts when thrown at your face. A rock is sturdier, but hurts like hell when on the receiving end of a throw.


I chose to be a rock. As such, I run with (off the top of my head; will correct later):

• 37500 morale
• 26% Block (including 5% skill tree)
• 25% Parry (including 5% skill tree)
• 17% Evade
• 61% Physical Mitigation (1% Dwarf)
• 60% Tactical Mitigation
• 50% Critical Defense
• 25% Incoming Healing (including 5% skill tree)
• 25% Resistance
• 15% Finesse
• 40K Physical Mastery

P.S.: Keep in mind the investment to get B/P/E to the actual cap (25%) is insane compared to the rating needed to get 20%. This is why many people consider 20% as the cap for B/P/E and boost their B/P with the 5% bonuses from class points. Critical defense over 50% is a waste as well, seeing as anything above it only affects the magnitude of devastating hits. Finally, you need to overcap your mitigations by a rating of 6750, because of T2 mobs penetrating your mitigations by that amount.

[Chris91]

I think you're wrong, as the what you call "sponge" is the more effective way to build a guardian. The viability of high morale builds comes from understanding that most stats a tank needs don't compete with morale for essence slots

Block and Parry for example, you get quite a bunch from might and pure rating on gear. Then there is legacied Guardians Ward which improves both ratings by ~6000. I also improve my block rating on my LI relics. Parry rating also gets buffed by adaptability (which can be further improved by a legacy), since our damage/aggro comes from the block response chain and war chant and we basicly never use the parry chain while blue line the parry rating buff is permanent while in combat

That leaves me with 25,x% block and 24,x% parry (including +5% block and +2% parry from trait, +1% parry from sword). I haven't focused on evade at all and I already have 12% (though I'm thinking about improving that)

Next point Mitigations, Physical is basicly overcapped for T2 from the start if you have the right virtues. Tactical needs a little work but a 2-3 essences will be enough

Critical defence is already at 50% without any work too and Bolster further buffs it (Bolster or Tenderize is needed to advance yellow deep enough to get Warchant targets)

Incoming healing is also rather easy to get to 25%, especially if your Guardian has the men racial bonus. Incoming healing comes in large chunks from Settings (Morale/Crit/Inc Heal) and Runes (Inc Heal/Block)

That leaves aggro/damage. Sure damage and thus aggro improves by improving mastery, however a much bigger boost comes from the right legacies on imbued weapons. Having all shield related legacies and light damage improves your aggro more than any mastery stacking could.

50k morale unbuffed is possible with 25/25/15 BPE, overcapped mits, 50% crit defence, 25% inc healing without much of a problem

[Magentix]

I think you're wrong, as the what you call "sponge" is the more effective way to build a guardian.

Opinions differ. Your viewpoint assumes a lot of things, I merely pointed out the fact that there are two mainstream builds out there.

Block and Parry for example, you get quite a bunch from might and pure rating on gear.

That's assuming people wear the DA set instead of the Osgiliath set.

Then there is legacied Guardians Ward which improves both ratings by ~6000.

There are a lot of great belt legacies for Guardians, why waste 2 slots on GW parry and block?

Parry rating also gets buffed by adaptability ... and we basicly never use the parry chain while blue line the parry rating buff is permanent while in combat

Adaptability is lost whenever you use a block response as well?

Critical defence is already at 50% without any work too and Bolster further buffs it (Bolster or Tenderize is needed to advance yellow deep enough to get Warchant targets)

That's assuming blue tanks want warchant targets. When fighting a boss with corruptions, you will use sting and Bolster goes out the door.

50k morale unbuffed is possible with 25/25/15 BPE, overcapped mits, 50% crit defence, 25% inc healing without much of a problem

What's your finesse, physical mastery and resistance at, though?

[dwarfThar]

There are two mainstream ways of building a guardian: a rock or a sponge.

A sponge usually has very high morale and mits, average BPE and nothing else to show for. His job is to just spam taunts and soak damage. Because of the lower BPE, he puts some strain on the healer, but the higher morale pool also makes it more forgiving when a healer is stunned. On power draining fights such as the LT of DG, this type of tank is a pain to keep alive. It only became a really viable build when the whole threat mechanic was scrapped and taunts were buffed (permataunt).

A rock is a tank who focuses on maximizing all other defensive stats, some offensive stats and only then morale. They cap their mits and BP, get their E and Res very high, aim for 50% CritDef and also invest in Might and Finesse instead of just secondary stats. Once those stats are okay, they fill all other slots with morale. The idea here is that they take less damage through high avoidances and mitigations, giving healers an easier time. They also focus on outgoing damage and finesse so they can't wipe because a skill got resisted or missed. The added bonus is that they output way more damage than a sponge, facilitating the fight because the boss dies faster.

An extra benefit to being a sponge is the insane amount Warrior's Heart heals for. The flip side is that rocks can tank a lot of mobs for a long while without needing heals. Also keep in mind that in Dome of Stars, a lot of mobs have skills that remove 80% of your max morale. This basically turns sponges into 10k morale squishies, while rocks become 7.5k avoidance beasts.

I like this comparison because the analogies match: a sponge can absorb a lot but hardly hurts when thrown at your face. A rock is sturdier, but hurts like hell when on the receiving end of a throw.


I chose to be a rock. As such, I run with (off the top of my head; will correct later):

• 37500 morale
• 26% Block (including 5% skill tree)
• 25% Parry (including 5% skill tree)
• 17% Evade
• 61% Physical Mitigation (1% Dwarf)
• 60% Tactical Mitigation
• 50% Critical Defense
• 25% Incoming Healing (including 5% skill tree)
• 25% Resistance
• 15% Finesse
• 40K Physical Mastery

P.S.: Keep in mind the investment to get B/P/E to the actual cap (25%) is insane compared to the rating needed to get 20%. This is why many people consider 20% as the cap for B/P/E and boost their B/P with the 5% bonuses from class points. Critical defense over 50% is a waste as well, seeing as anything above it only affects the magnitude of devastating hits. Finally, you need to overcap your mitigations by a rating of 6750, because of T2 mobs penetrating your mitigations by that amount.

I don't think this so true anymore since the essence system got introduced. You can get capped mitigations and high avoidances while still stacking a good junk of morale without any problems.
My build is quite similar to your's statwise - except that I trade around 18k mastery of your's for 11k morale. I don't feel like mastery makes a real difference - as Chris91 I rely heavily on Warchant for AoE tanking situations.
I'm planning to run unbuffed 50k morale, overcapped mits, 25/25/17 b/p/e (with GW), 20% inc heal, ~22% resistance, ~15% finesse, ~60% crit def when I finish my gear.

[siipperi]

I chose to be a rock. As such, I run with (off the top of my head; will correct later):

• 37500 morale
• 26% Block (including 5% skill tree)
• 25% Parry (including 5% skill tree)
• 17% Evade
• 61% Physical Mitigation (1% Dwarf)
• 60% Tactical Mitigation
• 50% Critical Defense
• 25% Incoming Healing (including 5% skill tree)
• 25% Resistance
• 15% Finesse
• 40K Physical Mastery

I have pretty much this, but with (less numbers ~7% finesse, under 30k mastery, 12% evade, 20% inc healing, but I also have 63% critical defence, and over 50k morale. I think focusing on secondary stats is quite old way to build your guardian. Stacking morale for certain degree have always worked, but even more so now.

Opinions differ. Your viewpoint assumes a lot of things, I merely pointed out the fact that there are two mainstream builds out there.
There are a lot of great belt legacies for Guardians, why waste 2 slots on GW parry and block?

I think your opinion is just old considering how you can build guardian now. Morale is way to go considering you basically give up nothing when you do so.

You should have always parry and block legacies on one of your belts for guardians ward, there is absolutely no reason not to have those since both give 3,9k rating its no brainer.

[Magentix]

You should have always parry and block legacies on one of your belts for guardians ward, there is absolutely no reason not to have those since both give 3,9k rating its no brainer.

Between shield, relics, dwarf racial, high might and GW always being up I already cap block and parry. (I do have all stat tomes up to 12, which is another 960B/640P from might.) I'd rather slot the following 7 legacies on my belt:

• CAB cd/heal
• cry resist chance
• shield damage
• shield blow damage
• shield smash damage
• bubble strength
• WH heal

With the pimped CAB and WH, cry resist and the shield damage traits, I do tons of damage while staying alive easily and never getting a taunt resisted. Also, a 49% heal -98% on crit- accompanied by a major bubble is just funny as hell.

I think your opinion is just old considering how you can build guardian now.

So because it's been around longer, it's invalid? By that logic, the alphabet is wrong too.

Morale is way to go considering you basically give up nothing when you do so.

But you do give stuff up. Be it PM, IH, ... there will certainly be things you give up when slotting more morale. Can't conjure morale out of thin air, can you?

[Chris91]

I do still use 5 pieces of DA gear, as my crests went first to my RK, however I can make up the difference by switching to the Westemnet block gems and using adaptability parry rating.

Adaptability is 2 different buffs that cash out on the related response skill, block response skills only cash out the block buff, parry response skills cash put only the parry buff - using no parry response skill means the parry buff stays for the whole fight

Regarding belt legacies:
I also use all 3 shield related ones and I use light damage (increases warchant damage and thus aggro). Right now I have Guardians ward block and parry and a vitality legacy. I will however move both Guardians ward related ones to a swap belt (along with a non imbued swap sword to increase its duration) and fill those spots with adaptability and might. WH heal should also be on a swap belt. CaB is so badly scaled it shouldn't even be called a heal, it's a power restoration tool and with non legacied CaB and Thrill of Danger plus pots I have more than enough power. Cry Resist is basicly a finesse essence that only works on cries and compared to Guardians ward parry which is worth more than 3 parry essences there is no reason to use the former rather than the later

I run much less physical mastery you do and have no problem with aggro

[Sumarr]

this is may build but whit hope token. still need 4 pisses of osg armour so 4 empty spots left and don't know which ess to slot might or vit, might for exstra pm or vit for moral and resistanc. dont know how to get this picture smaller

[Magentix]

I do still use 5 pieces of DA gear, as my crests went first to my RK, however I can make up the difference by switching to the Westemnet block gems and using adaptability parry rating.

Adaptability is 2 different buffs that cash out on the related response skill, block response skills only cash out the block buff, parry response skills cash put only the parry buff - using no parry response skill means the parry buff stays for the whole fight

Regarding belt legacies:
I also use all 3 shield related ones and I use light damage (increases warchant damage and thus aggro). Right now I have Guardians ward block and parry and a vitality legacy. I will however move both Guardians ward related ones to a swap belt (along with a non imbued swap sword to increase its duration) and fill those spots with adaptability and might. WH heal should also be on a swap belt. CaB is so badly scaled it shouldn't even be called a heal, it's a power restoration tool and with non legacied CaB and Thrill of Danger plus pots I have more than enough power. Cry Resist is basicly a finesse essence that only works on cries and compared to Guardians ward parry which is worth more than 3 parry essences there is no reason to use the former rather than the later

I run much less physical mastery you do and have no problem with aggro

You just made me revisit my build.

Pre-imbue CaB cooldown would reduce it to 15 second skill, meaning mad heals and power. Now it's 43 seconds, so I'm dropping that one. The cry resist rate is indeed a full slot for finesse on one skill. May as well put parry in it and swap out some parry for morale. Didn't know audacity was 2 different buffs. Yet another fine examples of lacking tooltips

I don't use swap items, though. Don't have macro keyboards and cba micro-managing my skills that much manually :/

[Gillthelion]

I wear two pieces Osgiliath-Set for the Set Bonus, rest 5 slot pieces.
My stats are:
40300 morale
26% Block (including 5% skill tree)
25% Parry (including 5% skill tree)
19% Evade
60% Physical Mitigation ca.26000 unbuffed
60% Tactical Mitigation ca.24000 unbuffed
56% + 10% Critical Defense
35% Incoming Healing (including 5% skill tree)
27% Resistance
20% Finesse
22K Physical Mastery

with 6 5 slot pieces i win 5150 moral, but i love the 1min cd of Warrior´s Heart.

Anyone else who use the Osgiliath Set?

I think 40k morale is enought for the content right now.
40k unbuffed means 50k buffed

[siipperi]

with 6 5 slot pieces i win 5150 moral, but i love the 1min cd of Warrior´s Heart.

Anyone else who use the Osgiliath Set?

I think 40k morale is enought for the content right now.
40k unbuffed means 50k buffed

I use it in RC (wh reduct) when I run with 2 dps classes, its quite vital on last boss when doing so, also using thrill of danger set to reduce it on 1st boss when no healers and I tank on red selfheals alone.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

I use it in RC (wh reduct) when I run with 2 dps classes, its quite vital on last boss when doing so, also using thrill of danger set to reduce it on 1st boss when no healers and I tank on red selfheals alone.

That sounds FUN! Do you have any video of you doing this?

[siipperi]

That sounds FUN! Do you have any video of you doing this?

Sadly im too dumb to know how lol.
Tactics we typically use is atleast either red RK or red LM in the group, its quite easy to stay alive as like this until last boss. On first boss you just need to kite a bit to make sure your allies dont get dots, and so you can heal yourself with long reaching aoe skills like warcry (red-yellow traits). On 2nd boss I just like stand still and take it in red line. Can survive totally fine on it about 2 mins without any external heal and on last boss you need a bit more healing help and I prefer doing it in blue to get avoidance skills rolling, and because I use WH set bonus I can use that 30k+ heal on each HRNNNG phase. On trash I like to run on yellow, it's quite fun and I need to be on tank line to keep aggro if I run with champion. I used to be able to tank still but now that even tank can get the dot on first boss I need to keep moving quite a bit to minimize chances to get one.

Another nice setup is 2x dps champs and healer, then switch one to tank for final one. But ye I even more adore 2 champs combination, with RK you can make absolutely crazy pulls and burn trash down in matter of seconds!