Warden Fist-Spear Gambit Bug

[CornWollis]

I understand the Warden is in an OP state because of the Light DoT's and Survivability but this bug has been annoying the hell out of me for a few months now, I have bugged it twice now but I believe they have no intention on fixing this anytime soon because of the work being done with server transfers.

Fist-Spear gambits do not stack with multiple Wardens.

Several times when I have been in a group with another Warden I have noticed that I use a Spear of Virtue which ticks for 7k every 4 seconds for 28 seconds just for the other Warden to overwrite that DoT with a Spear of virtue that ticks for 3k every 4 seconds for 16 seconds which is a massive annoyance because the same happens to Piercing strike and Precise blow, this is obviously not WAI and makes me not want to group with PUG Wardens just incase they overwrite what is about 1/3 of my DPS which makes bosses die a lot slower than what they should.

Here is a test I did today showing how it overwrites the DoTs by multiboxing with my girlfriends Warden and making sure she has 60k physical mastery to show how it makes the DoT weaker.

I understand if this was WAI for PvMP but it shouldn't be for PvE, even though the Fist-Spear line is Over powered I shouldn't have to say to Wardens to not use Spear of virtue and Piercing strike incase they don't have 80k Physical mastery and 28 or 36 second long DoTs or it will cut down the groups DPS.

[cerebion]

should be disabled in pvp ares, and changed back to stacking like aoe dots in pve. I always explain that the person with the better dot should be the only one to use ST bleeds, and the rest focus on aoe ones- makes dps a lot more efficient-but a lot of people never listen...

[Ethrildar]

I don't really care in PVE to be honest, but this is annoying as all hell in PVP, it's basically just saying if you have more than one Warden in a group, say goodbye to most of their DPS.

I do the same, I put up a nice 9k SoV and some scrubby 50k morale Warden runs up to tag it with his 4k SoV, overwriting mine completely, and nothing dies.

The same is true of Spear line bleeds, Unerring Strike, Mighty Blow etc. also do not stack.

When I last tested this (because somebody said they don't stack, SoV line etc.) about a year ago this was not the case, they all stacked. And I've seen no notes since stating otherwise, so I assume it's a bug.

I'll get all the Wardens I know to bug it but sadly I think you're right about Turbine having no intention of fixing it.

I don't see why PVP or PVE you shouldn't be able to invite perfectly viable classes along to a group because they hit hard, but not as hard as you.

[legofreak11]

A kinmate and I tested this a while ago after we noticed only one of our spear of virtue/piercing strikes was showing up on the Dome of Stars Mammoth. However, if you pay attention to your combat analysis, you'll see that your dots are still ticking, even though the icon isn't shown under the target's portrait.

[CornWollis]

A kinmate and I tested this a while ago after we noticed only one of our spear of virtue/piercing strikes was showing up on the Dome of Stars Mammoth. However, if you pay attention to your combat analysis, you'll see that your dots are still ticking, even though the icon isn't shown under the target's portrait.

The person that applies the DoT secondly gets the damage, the first doesn't.

I have tested multiple times and the person that gets their DoT over writ loses the ticks and it does no damage.

Unless maybe my toon is bugged.

[Ethrildar]

A kinmate and I tested this a while ago after we noticed only one of our spear of virtue/piercing strikes was showing up on the Dome of Stars Mammoth. However, if you pay attention to your combat analysis, you'll see that your dots are still ticking, even though the icon isn't shown under the target's portrait.

The person that applies the DoT secondly gets the damage, the first doesn't.

I have tested multiple times and the person that gets their DoT over writ loses the ticks and it does no damage.

Unless maybe my toon is bugged.

Nah just tested it, it works as you'd expect, Legofreak is mistaken.

Sadly if this ever gets fixed it'll take a while. And I think the WARDENS ARE OP QQQQ mentality alongside people being too lazy to bug, doesn't help us. I have however made sure four other wardens as well as myself have bugged this in their own way, so we'll see I'd guess it takes 63,928 bug reports for anything to come of it, though.

[hurant]

This is a very serious bug that needs fixing ASAP.

The same is true of Spear line bleeds, Unerring Strike, Mighty Blow etc. also do not stack.

I just tested this and they do stack, there is no bug here. And no, none of us got double bleed.

[Ethrildar]

This is a very serious bug that needs fixing ASAP.



I just tested this and they do stack, there is no bug here. And no, none of us got double bleed.

That's extremely, extremely weird, since I've done exactly the same test multiple times and they do not stack...?

[hurant]

That's extremely, extremely weird, since I've done exactly the same test multiple times and they do not stack...?

One of us is wrong then, or we are both partially wrong *.

Would anyone else be so nice and either confirm my findings or Ethrildar's findings?


* - I mean they might not stack only under specific circumstances.

e.g. I have tested with some random warden, which I believe was tank traited (16s DoTs, tank gear). Perhaps when both DoTs are of same duration or from same spec (both red wardens) they do not stack?

[Ethrildar]

One of us is wrong then, or we are both partially wrong *.

Would anyone else be so nice and either confirm my findings or Ethrildar's findings?


* - I mean they might not stack only under specific circumstances.

e.g. I have tested with some random warden, which I believe was tank traited (16s DoTs, tank gear). Perhaps when both DoTs are of same duration or from same spec (both red wardens) they do not stack?

I think to be honest neither of us are. It's more than likely a technicality or simply a bug that isn't as easy to replicate as it is under normal circumstances in the moors for example.

I tested it with 28 sec pulses (which I always run) with three different wardens, all also running 28 seconds except one, who may have been running 36 second pulses, but I'm unsure. All of us had the same results where they didn't stack, neither SoV line or Power Attack line. None of us tried with a blue/yellow spec warden using the same dots with 16 sec pulses or anything, could be it... Not sure.

Would like Turbine to do some testing and get to the bottom of it, it's their job after all, shouldn't be down to us really.

[Nebster]

I tested it with 28 sec pulses (which I always run) with three different wardens, all also running 28 seconds except one, who may have been running 36 second pulses, but I'm unsure. All of us had the same results where they didn't stack, neither SoV line or Power Attack line. None of us tried with a blue/yellow spec warden using the same dots with 16 sec pulses or anything, could be it... Not sure.

If all the other wardens are running 28 sec pulses then I assume they are in red line. I think maybe Hurant might be right. If 2 or more wardens are on the same trait line, the dots/bleed don't stack. I run lumithil in blue and another warden in red and I often see 6 bleeds on him so they do stack for me. Still though, they should stack no matter the trait line if this is actually the case.

[Ethrildar]

If all the other wardens are running 28 sec pulses then I assume they are in red line. I think maybe Hurant might be right. If 2 or more wardens are on the same trait line, the dots/bleed don't stack. I run lumithil in blue and another warden in red and I often see 6 bleeds on him so they do stack for me. Still though, they should stack no matter the trait line if this is actually the case.

Yeah they were definitely red, no blue Wardens.

I will test with 1 red, 1 blue and we'll see what happens.

[hurant]

The same is true of Spear line bleeds, Unerring Strike, Mighty Blow etc. also do not stack.

OK now I finally got to test it properly.

Does not stack:
DoTs from Spear of Virtue, Piercing Strike, Precise Blow
DoTs from Unerring Strike (a.k.a. Big Bleed)

Does stack:
DoTs from Power Attack, Mighty Blow (a.k.a. Low Bleed, Medium Bleed)

[Ethrildar]

OK now I finally got to test it properly.

Does not stack:
DoTs from Spear of Virtue, Piercing Strike, Precise Blow
DoTs from Unerring Strike (a.k.a. Big Bleed)

Does stack:
DoTs from Power Attack, Mighty Blow (a.k.a. Low Bleed, Medium Bleed)

Good to know. Now we can all rest in peace knowing nothing will be done and two wardens in the same group will essentially be crippling eachother continually until it's fixed

[CornWollis]

It has now been 9 months since we have brought up this issue and now with mastery cap being at 148k having 2 Wardens in a group when one has a 10k+ spear of virtue for 32 seconds and the tank Warden overwrites with a 3k 16 second one it's becoming a massive nerf for group DPS with more than one Warden in a group.

This is not way as intended, when another class such as Minstrel with the new social options that were added which is only meant to show effects done by you on a target has spear of virtue, piercing strike, precise blow and Unnering strike all showing on the target as if the Minstrel used the skills, have bugged it since U18 first went live and heard nothing back.

The frustration of having kinnies come back to the game and gearing their Warden only for our group leader to pick who has the highest mastery to be used as a DPS position then there is just wasted DPS on single target fights where you cannot frontal to use frontal AoEs.

If they feel as though it is too strong even after the slight nerf to light dots and Healing to not stack these DoTs please address it because all I am seeing is a bug that has been around for years that they are just too lazy to fix.

[Ethrildar]

Doubt it'll ever be fixed to be honest. The QQ storm will start up again as soon as it's fixed "Nerf Wardens some more!". Turbine probably don't want that filth all over the forums even more than it already is.

Not to mention they're lazy and out of touch.

This is pretty gamebreaking for multiple Wardens in one group and as Gor stated above, the higher a DPS Warden's damage goes, the more of a nerf it becomes to have another Warden in group, especially a tank one or very badly geared/played one.

[hurant]

Does not stack:
DoTs from Spear of Virtue, Piercing Strike, Precise Blow
DoTs from Unerring Strike (a.k.a. Big Bleed)

Does stack:
DoTs from Power Attack, Mighty Blow (a.k.a. Low Bleed, Medium Bleed)

So dear Lotro Team, any chance of this annoying bug being ever fixed?

Or will it be one Warden per group and raid forever?

[Osglinthor]

Rebumping this in hopes it gets fixed before new raid comes out so i dont have to roll different dps class that doenst get its dps halved if there are more than 1 in group.

[Anduil]

Rebumping this in hopes it gets fixed before new raid comes out so i dont have to roll different dps class that doenst get its dps halved if there are more than 1 in group.

+++++++++++++

[CornWollis]

Since moving to Arkenstone 2 days ago I have grouped with 3 tanking Wardens that do not understand when I tell them to not use Fist-Spear-Fist Line and Spear-Shield-Fist Line or it will impact the groups DPS, long behold they don't listen and it just makes us take an extra 30 seconds to a minute per boss kill, I understand it's not much but it's extremely annoying to have to watch for them to use for example Spear of virtue just for me to build it quickly, to overwrite it.

Bugged this 2 years ago and made this post almost a year ago and it's still happening with no response from devs at all.

When is this going to be fixed? This has completely put me off running outside of kin.

[Hlifhrim]

This is one of the reasons I stopped playing my Warden for the time being. It's annoying when the tank overwrites your DoTs, but it's just as annoying when you can't do half of your tank rotation either. This should really get fixed ASAP.

[Ethrildar]

bump.

+10 character limit

[CornWollis]

Damn I missed this threads birthday

Cheers to another year and more years to come of DoTs overwriting! <3

[Ethrildar]

A few more years of dots overwriting, a few more years of lotro. Fitting *-*

[hurant]

The person that applies the DoT secondly gets the damage, the first doesn't.

I have tested multiple times and the person that gets their DoT over writ loses the ticks and it does no damage.

Does not stack:
DoTs from Spear of Virtue, Piercing Strike, Precise Blow
DoTs from Unerring Strike (a.k.a. Big Bleed)

Does stack:
DoTs from Power Attack, Mighty Blow (a.k.a. Low Bleed, Medium Bleed)

Huh I feel there has been some time since you/we raised the issue...
Maybe it will be fixed with Update 19?