Level 105 iLIs should start at tier 44

[Scirocco]

Agreed. The only thing with this is Turbine would have to be firm in telling people NO. What I mean is, you know if that content is say a raid.. that raiders will be able to get this which will cause casual and solo players to revolt (like they did before) demanding that this item be made available to theml Turbine would have to say well Use the store or run the raid. No easy mode option until the next level cap increase

I suspected the reference to "difficulty" was just another way of saying "raiders only."

Why should a special drop to reach a tier cap be reserved to a niche minority of the playerbase?

I have no problem with having rewards be tied to difficulty. But after nearly two decades of experience with MMORPGs, including raiding, I know that raiding is not particularly difficult on an individual player basis. Raiding started as a way to make certain content easier or more likely to be accomplished (the more people you had, the easier it became). Since then, raiding has turned into a puzzle-box with highly scripted, choreographed content.

I don't have a problem with raiding per se. I do have a problem with the elitist or exclusionary mindset that sometimes goes with it.

I don't get this modern gaming generation. Modern gamers want everything for nothing... want to be max level and have max everything without even playing the game... and they are willing to pay for it. It Literall blows my mind how many people will pay to skip the game to get to the end and a grind. Now people want the weapons already maxed (and I am sure Turbine will eventually add amaxed out LIs with choose ur legacies) in the store for 50 bucks a pop. Just my opinions

I do agree with you here.

[kickman77]

Sure thing. Your post and accusations are targeted at me, so I feel like I have to address it.
This is just 1 of my 4 Thorog-unlocked, lvl100 toons. The others have a little bit less activity, but they still contribute.



Let me translate it for you. Nearly 1000 Thorog runs on just my main.

Ok so no offense but you farmed Thorog. Thats like the fastest run in game other than Samrbog. IIts farmed all day and night now because its the path to least ressistance to get makrs and medallions and most likely will be nerfed because of it. But hey I have farmed it a few times, to the point where instances lock within 45 minutes and I need to switch toon (that means within 45 minutes I have ran it 10 times)

edit oops sorry the lock is a 60 minute but still thats less than 5 minutes per run

It still does not take the fact away that the imbuement system was designed to have this grund... they promised less of a grind and made it more of a grind and now that the level cap is finally increasing we see that. It sill does not make me want to see people roll a new ll 105 LI and be caught up instantly with everyone else (and for the record I am a altoholic and have over 30 toons that I play)

Does there need to be an easier way to catch up.. sire... easiest method,, lower the cost of scrolls and increase the gaines in BB (or make a drop in BB to increase tiers to level lets saty 28 bound to charatcer that way to catch upo you need to farm out 6 tiers on each legacy

So please dont take it personal, its my opinion that the idea is a bad one, and I expressed why I felt that way

I suspected the reference to "difficulty" was just another way of saying "raiders only."

Why should a special drop to reach a tier cap be reserved to a niche minority of the playerbase?

I have no problem with having rewards be tied to difficulty. But after nearly two decades of experience with MMORPGs, including raiding, I know that raiding is not particularly difficult on an individual player basis. Raiding started as a way to make certain content easier or more likely to be accomplished (the more people you had, the easier it became). Since then, raiding has turned into a puzzle-box with highly scripted, choreographed content.

I don't have a problem with raiding per se. I do have a problem with the elitist or exclusionary mindset that sometimes goes with it.



I do agree with you here.

thanks for agreeing with me on the second part

As for the first part, I mean difficulty in anything just used raiders as an example. I am not a hardcore raider. I like to run them and have fun but I am not what people consider elite in any way. If the catch up item was gated behind content that I personally did not run I would

A. Go without (like I did before level 75 when I was fortunbate ebough to have people teach me how to raid)

Or B: learn how to do that content

What I dont want to see id an item like this being available for say 1000 stars of merit with no other way of getting the item (like the gold jewlery)

Again just my thought

[Coeprandua]

Ok so no offense but you farmed Thorog. Thats like the fastest run in game other than Samrbog. IIts farmed all day and night now because its the path to least ressistance to get makrs and medallions and most likely will be nerfed because of it. But hey I have farmed it a few times, to the point where instances lock within 45 minutes and I need to switch toon (that means within 45 minutes I have ran it 10 times)

edit oops sorry the lock is a 60 minute but still thats less than 5 minutes per run

It still does not take the fact away that the imbuement system was designed to have this grund... they promised less of a grind and made it more of a grind and now that the level cap is finally increasing we see that. It sill does not make me want to see people roll a new ll 105 LI and be caught up instantly with everyone else (and for the record I am a altoholic and have over 30 toons that I play)

Does there need to be an easier way to catch up.. sire... easiest method,, lower the cost of scrolls and increase the gaines in BB (or make a drop in BB to increase tiers to level lets saty 28 bound to charatcer that way to catch upo you need to farm out 6 tiers on each legacy

So please dont take it personal, its my opinion that the idea is a bad one, and I expressed why I felt that way

So don't call me a new-gen gamer who want everything for free and we are ok. Thorog might be the path of least resistence, but it still took 75+ hours to farm it 900+ times, which is hardly a lazy thing to do. I would have spent much more time and I would still be nowhere near my goal, if I had decided to run random 3- and 6-mans instead of Thorog. The thing is, Thorog is the only way, if you wanna get somewhere with multiple toons.

Like I said, Vulcwen already suggested the best option here. I agreed with that so you can now stop treating the OP like it's something that I'm pressing. Cuz It's not.

[Mercho]

...Does there need to be an easier way to catch up.. sire... easiest method,, lower the cost of scrolls...

This could help new players, or players with multiple alts, catch up. If they add a new tier of empowerment scrolls, at level 105, they should drastically cut the prices of Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment.

[Scirocco]

thanks for agreeing with me on the second part

As for the first part, I mean difficulty in anything just used raiders as an example. I am not a hardcore raider. I like to run them and have fun but I am not what people consider elite in any way. If the catch up item was gated behind content that I personally did not run I would

A. Go without (like I did before level 75 when I was fortunbate ebough to have people teach me how to raid)

Or B: learn how to do that content

What I dont want to see id an item like this being available for say 1000 stars of merit with no other way of getting the item (like the gold jewlery)

Again just my thought

I have always been in favor of multiple paths to the same reward (e.g., gold jewelry).

Gold jewelry is available through EBs. I thought it should also be available through (1) classic group instances, and (2) raids. T2C or otherwise, I'll leave that up to the those who do the content regularly.

Conversely, I thought the 5 slot essence armor frames should also have been available through the EBs. Perhaps 1000 SoMs each. Perhaps even more (balancing the number of runs required).

[Banaticus]

(that means within 45 minutes I have ran it 10 times)
edit oops sorry the lock is a 60 minute but still thats less than 5 minutes per run

Yeah, a good farm should be killing Thorog about every four and a half minutes. As others have pointed out, to grind Thorog enough to get enough marks/medallions to get enough anfalas scrolls of empowerment to cap out your two LI's literally takes hundreds of hours of play time. If someone is only playing 10 hours on average (a little on the weekend, an hour a couple nights during the week), that's literally months of real life time. For most players, Thorog is the only way to do it within the next year. Even so, most of the better players have picked up their needed marks/medallions and moved on. The farms that are going now take an average of around 10 minutes and sometimes the farm has to take a second try at Thorog.

[Mercho]

I think part of the solution to the LI grind should involve weekly unlocks of the hard cap. This would provide a safety net so players don't get too far behind. Players could race their LIs to max quickly or have their LIs max out in a number of weeks.

Here are some other things that should be done.

1. Reduce the price of Empowerment Scrolls
2. Reduce the price of Starlit Crystals
3. Add Star-lit crystals to the skirmish camps and Morgul Crest npcs
4. Add Remembrance Crystals to the SoM npcs, skirmish camps, and Morgul Crest npcs
5. Add Imbued Legecy Replacement scrolls to the SoM npcs, skirmish camps, and Morgul Crest npcs
6. If new Star-lits and/or Empowerment Scrolls are added with the level 105 cap reduce the prices of Starlits and/or Empowerment Scrolls even more

[kickman77]

Yeah, a good farm should be killing Thorog about every four and a half minutes. As others have pointed out, to grind Thorog enough to get enough marks/medallions to get enough anfalas scrolls of empowerment to cap out your two LI's literally takes hundreds of hours of play time. If someone is only playing 10 hours on average (a little on the weekend, an hour a couple nights during the week), that's literally months of real life time. For most players, Thorog is the only way to do it within the next year. Even so, most of the better players have picked up their needed marks/medallions and moved on. The farms that are going now take an average of around 10 minutes and sometimes the farm has to take a second try at Thorog.

OkI get that and have no issue with it. But than we come to the point of, if you are that casual of a player, what do you NEED a maxed out LI for. It becomes a WANT at that point. There is zero landscape content that even requires a nion imbued maxed out third ager.

When we hit level 85 and first agers basically became available to everyone a few of us saw this coming.. I personally do not understand how recently the word WANT has become synonu]imous with the word NEED,

If you run the Osg. Instances than yes you kind of need it. If you PvP than you you NEED it. But if you are casual where you pop in, do a fe quest, maybe run a thorog or sambrog or two and maybe tackle a BB here and there, than there is no NEED and that sadly is one of the many things wrong with Lotro. To many people confuse want with need.

Again this is just my opinion

On the other end though, I have been vocal about the cost of Empowerment scrolls since the Imbyuement system was rleeased. I have always sauid it was a blatant point at the store and would be a lot more of a grind than the ld LI system so even though I have said in this thread and elsewhere that when the level cap oncreases if we get new scrolls the old ones should be dropped in price I doubt that is going to happen because hey... it wont point to the store as much which is sad.

Turbine I tink does not realize how much of a turn off it is for players to see that m,any pointers to the store in one spot. I doubt we will ever get level 50 imbuement system because it wont be able to point to the store unless they severly increase scroll cost on the loer tier scrolls
I know some people like their Super OP LIs (personally I feel like the more scrolls I add I am getting weaker kind if like a diminishing return) but in all honesty, I think I would like the OKLD LI grind back over the imbuement system. It was less of a grind and to me more fun I have yet to max one weapon on any of my capped toons because it is not worth the investment I may get there someday, but as no content calls for it to be needed than I ask whats the point of spending hundreds of hours farming things like thorog? I would rather do the things that I have fun doing in the game

[Vulcwen]

OkI get that and have no issue with it. But than we come to the point of, if you are that casual of a player, what do you NEED a maxed out LI for. It becomes a WANT at that point. There is zero landscape content that even requires a nion imbued maxed out third ager.

It's all about context..
People WANT to maximize their character, and in order to do so they NEED certain items.
That's not as strong as wanting to do certain content and needing items to do that, but a need is simply a requirement to meet a certain goal, and that goal itself is often not needed (especially in a game, as it's not needed to even play a game in the first place).

The concern that's more important is that what people want has changed from "beating certain content" to "maximizing a character, because well.. I like higher numbers".

[MithrielWielder]

Let's just stop all this talk about 105s. If were to break that promise it would be so outrageous that a lot of people would quit. LIs won't go higher than 100, ever. They've clearly said that. Please do not encourage them to break that promise. This thread should be closed.

[Amarantha]

OkI get that and have no issue with it. But than we come to the point of, if you are that casual of a player, what do you NEED a maxed out LI for. It becomes a WANT at that point. There is zero landscape content that even requires a nion imbued maxed out third ager.

This is where the lack of a firm definition of the term "casual" leads to really faulty logic. You can't equate "casual" with "only does solo landscape stuff". See, I might define "casual" as someone who can only log on a few hours a week, but prefers to spend those hours pursuing group content, or maybe PvP (which would necessitate a decent weapon). Someone else might define casual differently.

In any case, this isn't about needing a maxed out LI handed out like candy. It's about providing a viable means for people who come late to the imbue system to have a reasonable method of catching up to whatever the current grind entails.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Sure thing. Your post and accusations are targeted at me, so I feel like I have to address it.
This is just 1 of my 4 Thorog-unlocked, lvl100 toons. The others have a little bit less activity, but they still contribute.



Let me translate it for you. Nearly 1000 Thorog runs on just my main.

[Coeprandua]

Fail. I do it 90-120m a day. Not 24/7.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Fail. I do it 90-120m a day. Not 24/7.

How many boss kills per hour? Should be interesting maths. Either way, it's never a good idea to publicise ones addiction unless you're standing up and admitting it...

[Coeprandua]

How many boss kills per hour? Should be interesting maths. Either way, it's never a good idea to publicise ones addiction unless you're standing up and admitting it...

There are 3 bosses in Thorog, but we don't always kill the bear, thats how I have roughly 1000 runs. That's 45 days if you play 2h a day. It's been over 60 days since U17. My math is perfectly fine. You are just jelly cuz you fail to possess the discipline to put in 2h a day and thus you have fail t30 LIs. Admit it.

[ElanorFb]

I didn't find it very difficult to complete the legendary for my first character. I did mostly from DA armory and pel runs. I would say it took about a month?

After this, however, I lost interest and have left my second character at level 41 and with less than perfect essences. Maybe I finish someday maybe not. I also look at the cost/benefit from upgrading stat legacies and have to scratch my head at anyone worried about them.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

There are 3 bosses in Thorog, but we don't always kill the bear, thats how I have roughly 1000 runs. That's 45 days if you play 2h a day. It's been over 60 days since U17. My math is perfectly fine. You are just jelly cuz you fail to possess the discipline to put in 2h a day and thus you have fail t30 LIs. Admit it.

Of course, that's just one instance out of how many? Would love to see all your stats so you can tell us that the 000s of instance runs you've done is not symptomatic of any wider issues. As for myself I lead a normal life and don't measure "success" based on boss kills in a pc game but rather the happiness of my family, my success at work etc. Indeed earlier on I left a character standing still doing nothing until she logged out due to afk. That must make me such a waster!! Still, each to their own eh!

[Coeprandua]

Of course, that's just one instance out of how many? Would love to see all your stats so you can tell us that the 000s of instance runs you've done is not symptomatic of any wider issues. As for myself I lead a normal life and don't measure "success" based on boss kills in a pc game but rather the happiness of my family, my success at work etc. Indeed earlier on I left a character standing still doing nothing until she logged out due to afk. That must make me such a waster!! Still, each to their own eh!

Are you sure you don't measure success by attacking and trolling others online? Your response was totally uncalled-for and when I tell you you are mistaken you still keep coming at me. Enjoy your normal life.

[Nymphonic]

As long as I never...EVER have to decon a LI again, I don't care what is done with LIs. The thought of looking forward to yet another higher LI makes me cringe.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Are you sure you don't measure success by attacking and trolling others online? Your response was totally uncalled-for and when I tell you you are mistaken you still keep coming at me. Enjoy your normal life.

Nah, online trolling is something I do to every now and again to wind people such as yourself who take online games too seriously. Not that it takes that much effort.

Also re your comment that my LIs legacies are still below lvl 30, I looked at one of my lvl 100 chars earlier and HORROR OF HORRORS her LIs are still unimbued and... best you sit down for this... she's also wearing PURPLE GEAR! You'd best get on the blower to all your l337 mates and tell them what a nub I am...

[kickman77]

This is where the lack of a firm definition of the term "casual" leads to really faulty logic. You can't equate "casual" with "only does solo landscape stuff". See, I might define "casual" as someone who can only log on a few hours a week, but prefers to spend those hours pursuing group content, or maybe PvP (which would necessitate a decent weapon). Someone else might define casual differently.

In any case, this isn't about needing a maxed out LI handed out like candy. It's about providing a viable means for people who come late to the imbue system to have a reasonable method of catching up to whatever the current grind entails.

and would not the easiest method to do that be

A. Lower the cost for Anafalas scrolls of empowerment (at least by half at all barterers)
B. Introduce new scroll costing the same as anafalas scrols cost now that can only be used tillafter tier 44

Note The Anafalas can only be used until tier 44

When the system was released this is how I thought it was going to work, as we leveled, new scrolls would come, the old ones could still be used to tier to a certain point and than we start using the new ones.

[Coeprandua]

Nah, online trolling is something I do to every now and again to wind people such as yourself who take online games too seriously. Not that it takes that much effort.

Also re your comment that my LIs legacies are still below lvl 30, I looked at one of my lvl 100 chars earlier and HORROR OF HORRORS her LIs are still unimbued and... best you sit down for this... she's also wearing PURPLE GEAR! You'd best get on the blower to all your l337 mates and tell them what a nub I am...

lol alright. But why do you mock people who want to max their LIs? I mean, yes, I know it's ridiculous, but Ive done nothing wrong to you. In fact? I asked for a catch-up for people who didnt bother or were not here.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

lol alright. But why do you mock people who want to max their LIs? I mean, yes, I know it's ridiculous, but Ive done nothing wrong to you. In fact? I asked for a catch-up for people who didnt bother or were not here.

Of course there's nothing wrong with what you were doing - I was just taking the piss out of your 2000+ Dragon Wing Boss kills

[Scirocco]

and would not the easiest method to do that be

A. Lower the cost for Anafalas scrolls of empowerment (at least by half at all barterers)
B. Introduce new scroll costing the same as anafalas scrols cost now that can only be used tillafter tier 44

Note The Anafalas can only be used until tier 44

When the system was released this is how I thought it was going to work, as we leveled, new scrolls would come, the old ones could still be used to tier to a certain point and than we start using the new ones.

I would have some overlap. For example, Anfalas SoE could be used to say, 48. This allows those of us who have been building up some ASoE resources to get some benefit from them. I don't see any reason to force folks to go back and do old content, so I would have the new Anorien SoEs usable for any tier (no lower limit).

With the "expansion," let's say there are 15 new tiers possible (44 to 59).

4 would be unlocked to start, for example.
11 would need to be unlocked. Each level we gain would unlock a tier for all legacies. You could unlock all 11 immediately with scrolls, if you want. But it would be more efficient to unlock 5 tiers with the 5 levels, and then unlock the remaining 6 with scrolls.

[Catburg]

I would have some overlap. For example, Anfalas SoE could be used to say, 48. This allows those of us who have been building up some ASoE resources to get some benefit from them. I don't see any reason to force folks to go back and do old content, so I would have the new Anorien SoEs usable for any tier (no lower limit).

With the "expansion," let's say there are 15 new tiers possible (44 to 59).

4 would be unlocked to start, for example.
11 would need to be unlocked. Each level we gain would unlock a tier for all legacies. You could unlock all 11 immediately with scrolls, if you want. But it would be more efficient to unlock 5 tiers with the 5 levels, and then unlock the remaining 6 with scrolls.

Some good ideas here but how about gating the last 6, say, by having to be character level 105 to access them? Lets be honest levelling a character from 100 to 105 won't take that long anyway, even if you have several alts it shouldn't take too long to level your whole crew.