Beornings have very low dps in comparison to other DPS classes despite they are DAMAGE class

[Happychappy]

I have been playing a Beorning for a little while now. I used to main the Minstrel but fancied a change.

I find the Beorning quite durable and has some decent heals if heal specced. The dps suffers in heal spec obviously.
In red/dps mode i find the damage is not quite there at times, especially the AoE. Single target is ok but nothing spectacular.

A mini is probably the best healer in the game, can be great dps on the move with good AoE (far superior to Beornings) and they can have some nice buffs too. They may be less durable than a Beorning but they can avoid hits by moving and using ranged.

A Beorning is more like a cappy i think. A bit more dps than the cappy but less durable and far less buffs.

A burglar can debuff better than a Beorning and have much higher dps. Though less durable i think, they do have stealth, CC and more avoidance skills.

I think healing on a Beorning is good, but dps and tank spec need a buff.

Buff dps in red a little and buff Tank spec. Maybe more mitigation whilst in Bear form to rival heavy armour in the tanking line? Reduce Wrath costs in red or buff damage a little.

My opinion anyway.

[Oelle]

Minstrels as main healers are already powerful enough to heal the raid. You dont need third as powerful burst healer and I would prefer taking rk as off healer to buff main tank and group with our fates entwined if there's mechanic where group takes a ton of damage. Simply having 3rd burst healer wont bring that much on the table. Debuffing is arguably because in most cases you have already quite a bit debuffing of targets mitigations on the boss.

why third healer? beorn heal the whole raid, one other healer heal the maintank. what do you need 3 for?

[dftysry6dsrksk]

You rarely find an encounter when you need to heal THE WHOLE raid. Usually u need to heal 1-3 non-tank ppl hardly hitted. And thats not where bears sine at all.

[Oelle]

You rarely find an encounter when you need to heal THE WHOLE raid. Usually u need to heal 1-3 non-tank ppl hardly hitted. And thats not where bears sine at all.

if thats the case, one healer is enough just put those three people in one group an spam bolster courage.
but we all dont know the new raid coming out in 2016

[Anglenir]

I have a R7 Warden, with capped Agi/Migth tomes, with even OPs in moors, I have around 230% dmg with 27k morale.

I also have a Beorn, under the same circumstances I got around 190% dmg with 26k morale, in man form. In bearform we get +50% dmg, 240% total.
-I got no tomes what so ever on my bear, only 1 extra osg jewelry piece, and 1 crafted relic on it. So Im already behind 2k PM on that account, I also only got supreme might on my gear, with expection of one piece with full masteries.
My bear is Rank 5, and I hit with the freebie execute around 12-25k crit, and highest hit on Slam was 7k crit.
Taking in fact that our dps is in bearform, that is pretty epic!

With a decent rotation, beorns can out-dps nearly anybody, given they got the same gear.

So I defintely disagree on the part that our dps isn't on par.

[Pavlosh]

From what I have heard Bears are pretty good in the moors.

Regarding PvE, in the hands of an exceptional player they can pull out some good heals, tanking or dps.

But in the hands of an average player they lack a defined role in the group - generally just taking up a dps spot.

[Mcgiver]

I have a R7 Warden, with capped Agi/Migth tomes, with even OPs in moors, I have around 230% dmg with 27k morale.

I also have a Beorn, under the same circumstances I got around 190% dmg with 26k morale, in man form. In bearform we get +50% dmg, 240% total.
-I got no tomes what so ever on my bear, only 1 extra osg jewelry piece, and 1 crafted relic on it. So Im already behind 2k PM on that account, I also only got supreme might on my gear, with expection of one piece with full masteries.
My bear is Rank 5, and I hit with the freebie execute around 12-25k crit, and highest hit on Slam was 7k crit.
Taking in fact that our dps is in bearform, that is pretty epic!

With a decent rotation, beorns can out-dps nearly anybody, given they got the same gear.

So I defintely disagree on the part that our dps isn't on par.

there is a huge difference between dps and big hits... sure those shiny 12-25k hits look awesome but at the end your dps sucks

your dps is epic? prove it... post a turtle run -> top parses starts at 14k dps ... good luck

[GozmitJosh]

there is a huge difference between dps and big hits... sure those shiny 12-25k hits look awesome but at the end your dps sucks

your dps is epic? prove it... post a turtle run -> top parses starts at 14k dps ... good luck

If you did a solo run you could probably hit 5K DPS if you are focusing 100% towards healing.

[ScrettleSllim]

Might on essence gear will cut your DPS. Straight Physical mastery people, and if you want more dps don't wear crafted jewellery use the one with 252 might.

my bear is no where near as well geared as it could be and has to much morale to assist will in moors.
but I would love to see some phases also of 10+ DPS for a bear and the skill rotations people follow.

the crit bonus makes a massive difference, the main factors here are skills and knowledge of those skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2IYmTrJvzI
a captain in red line:
Pibe EU Lotro 6 days ago
Well, as a captain there really isn't any consistent dps sience the dps is dependent on the dps buffs. I use buffs then they expire and remain in cd, the dps is not consistent, however, my dps with no buffs is 9-11k dps and with buffs I'd say around 20k-24k?.

Don't forget
tomes (1440 mastery), traits (variant), essences ( if you want dps build physical mastery, make up for other stats with other essences), LI's, relics (attack duration -5%, crit rating cap it), skill buffs (expose, thrasher 15%, bee swam, keeping wrath high for crits), food, hope, scrolls. etc

[dftysry6dsrksk]

You cant do much about rotation in DPS playing Beo, sadly.

You should try to keep some wraith for crits but it is not possible as our DPS comes from bear form and it eats wraith.
Also the only debuff which increases our dps is armor rend from blue line (15%).

So the rotation is pretty much for ST:

- "build up 100 wraith" (easily doable before battle start)
- Renew DOT on target by CD (it stacks)
- Rend armor
- Thrash-thrash-thrash
- Hit execute when it procs
- Thrash-Thrash-thrash
- Rend armor

Man form - "build up 100 wraith"

repeat

Buff up with fer roar before going to bear form and 100% crit with +wraith generation by CD (handy in man and bear form)

some people like to use relentless maul for ST rotation but I parsed it and it is handy only under 100% crit - 4 good hits, not superb. With a bit of luck u will do more with execute procs during that time.

So my "1" button on keyboard will break soon.

Rotation is very poor and boring for PvE. The only exception is for AoE you should swap bear-man more often cause you have 1 AoE in man form and 2 from Bear. Just use Relentless maul by CD for AoE (use it with 100% crit buff) and hit by thrash, thrash, thrash, ... Man form - AoE - Bear form - thrash, thrash, thrash, ...

Might forgot something but this is in general how it is played. In PvE.

[Happychappy]

What I can't understand is why do we lose Wrath in bear form? Are they not bothered about being hit now whilst in bear form? Do Orcs become more friendly to the bear? Is the bear a pacifist?

Man form should be for healing and building wrath, but when wrath is full it is time to unleash the beast and the real dps kicks in. No wrath costs. So slow dps to start then a big increase when enraged and in bear form. Some damage adjustments may be needed here and there. The wrath drops rapidly only when out of combat.

Give the human form dual 2 handed weapons haha.

I rarely go bear form as it is. By the time I do, a champ has killed the mob. Losing wrath in bear loses you crit chance, so bear has higher damage but less Crit.

The beorning seems like it is an after thought and no real effort was put into it tbh. Just an easy Buck$.

[Zachski]

The idea is that you're taking out your fury on the enemy in a literal berzerker rage. (Because the "Ber" of "berzerker" refers to bears, and berzerkers of mythology were said to become bears in their battle fury. And now you know the inspiration for Beorn.)

It's mentally exhausting (not to mention probably quite cathartic) so the berzerk state can only last so long before you have to build it up again.

[Happychappy]

Ok.

i think the Berserkers of old would last far longer than a few swings though and I do not think that a drug crazed maniac in bear skins is the same as an actual bear.

Beorn did not just take a few swings in battle then change to man form to build wrath/get angry again lol. He was a rampaging bear the whole fight.

Reduced wrath costs would be a good start at least.

[ChrisRK]

As some of you are stating, the Beorning can't stay in bear form for too long and has to switch to man form too often to rebuild wrath.
I have been thinking about it and have thought of some ideas to increase the sustained dps.

Bestial Fury:
Whenever you Critically Hit with skills you gain:
+3 wrath

I think this should be increased. I think +10 or +15 wrath after a critical hit would help a lot to stay longer in bear form.

The wrath decay needs to be decreased in red traits somehow. Atm it is something like -3 wrath every 3 seconds, while being in combat and in bear form. A suggestion could be -3 wrath every 5 second.

The other change I've thought of is Expose. It already gives -40% Target's mitigation and +25% Critical damage when switching into bear form.
I think it should be turned into a toggle skill and keep the bonuses written above. Also, I think there should be a damage increase when using the Expose toggle skill. I'm not sure how much exactly. Somewhere between, 10, 15 or 20%.

I'm aware that it sounds overpowered. In exchange for this, Hearten/Composure is deactivated while the Expose toggle skill is activated and vice versa. When the Beorning deactivates the toggle skill or heals with Hearten/Composure, there will be some sort of cooldown on both Hearten/Composure and Expose. Something like 30 seconds would be ideal.

Then the Beorning can't use both at the same time. It's either full time Expose or Hearten/Composure whenever CD is ready. More dps or more survival.

Thanks, just my thoughts

[Happychappy]

Personally I would just remove the -3 wrath every few seconds in combat. The only time our Wrath should drop is using a wrath spender or when we are out of combat. When combat is over and we are more relaxed, the wrath would drop and we would revert to man form again, Hulk style lol.

A wrath reduction cost of skills in red line would help too. Skills that cost 10 could cost 6 wrath instead with a few ranks? This would give more uptime in bear form for the red line, giving increased dps.

I don't think we need a reduction in healing. We are only medium armour and we don't have block. A guardian or Warden gives up little for Dps.

Blue line should be able to block with 2 hander maybe, like a cappy whilst in bear? or have heavy armour mitigation whilst in bear form. Would make them better tanks.

Regardless of this I believe they still need further development in one way or another. Hopefully they will be looked at again soon.

[dftysry6dsrksk]

So it seems it came to its end as I thought. At least we can see a casual base of players which is a majority for lotro.
Things will stay as devs want and no topic or players proposals will change anything except 50% of forum ppl will shout at once

Just wanted to talk a bit about how things are for bears, so I think topic can be closed by now.

[den2011301]

So it seems it came to its end as I thought. At least we can see a casual base of players which is a majority for lotro.
Things will stay as devs want and no topic or players proposals will change anything except 50% of forum ppl will shout at once

Just wanted to talk a bit about how things are for bears, so I think topic can be closed by now.

A lot of people like reading forum and not to discuss. But i agree with thing that beornings should be changed. Devs have to read these themes and answer.

[dftysry6dsrksk]

After making phys master formula linear and ability to get a lot more Phys mastery without sever morale and mitgs loss I think that we end with about 10% less DPS than rks in u18 cause of lots of PM. At least something.

Still in pure vacuum it is a joke(

[wtk]

From what I have heard Bears are pretty good in the moors.

Regarding PvE, in the hands of an exceptional player they can pull out some good heals, tanking or dps.

But in the hands of an average player they lack a defined role in the group - generally just taking up a dps spot.

I'm a pretty lousy Beorning but I can speak to this one. Once you rank up far enough a Beorning is unusually hard to kill. The key reason is that many moors kills these days happen immediately, either by a Burglar/Warg jumping you from stealth or by a Loremaster/Spider immobilizing you and then hitting you with solid dps. With enough morale, a Beorning can often survive two Wargs at once, whereas an extremely good RK I know keeps getting killed even at rank 7 by just one Warg. At one point a couple of months ago, I had to run away from a gang of four, including iirc a spider and a defiler, halfway across the moors, and then had to leave the game for a minute; when I came back I was still alive (I think the four gave up shortly after I left).

[Zalexia]

I play a beorning exclusively I refuse to heal for one. I play a minstrel and if i geared my minstrel up who i have not played in 2 years is a better healer. I have dps'd on my bear.
I can get into bear form/man form really fast. I know the class inside and out. I spit out aoe damage and bleeds from 3k-30k it is not the same as a champ it is not sustained damage.
We have other skills beneficial to our class. Expose for one lowers our enemies defences. Rush in blue line combined with thunderous roar can stun 10-20 mobs at once. Yes i've counted.
I can tank fine if i have a good healer. I need to cap my tactical mit more and get some more crit defence. Just had an argument with a friend that wants me to heal in a raid.
i refuse to. for one I have not played heals for i healed for 8 years on my minstrel. No more.. and 2 i'm not geared for healing nor am I taking the time to gear. I have done all i can time wise to get a build for red and blue.
I dont think in yellow u build wrath fast enough or hold it for healing efficiently . I have seen good healing bears. I have seen good healing rks. I am tentatively a good healing minstrel. Yet there are good healing bears. I am not one of them . I will not be a main healer. To be a good beorning you must read all your skills and know what they do. the descriptions are vague . No creeps will fight me even in red line solo.
With the proper build you are hard to kill with 4 creeps. We are an off everything class. Yet , if you are good at your class you can get brought into a raid/group. Most people you dont see advertising for a beorning. It is an under estimated class. I also recommend dont play a beorning as a mouse clicker. Use hot keys primarily. I can tank fine. I can dps fine... its just whether or not we are enough dps. If the tank dies we can easily pick up til he gets rezzed. its the same way when the warden came out.

[Happychappy]

I play a beorning exclusively I refuse to heal for one. I play a minstrel and if i geared my minstrel up who i have not played in 2 years is a better healer. I have dps'd on my bear.
I can get into bear form/man form really fast. I know the class inside and out. I spit out aoe damage and bleeds from 3k-30k it is not the same as a champ it is not sustained damage.
We have other skills beneficial to our class. Expose for one lowers our enemies defences. Rush in blue line combined with thunderous roar can stun 10-20 mobs at once. Yes i've counted.
I can tank fine if i have a good healer. I need to cap my tactical mit more and get some more crit defence. Just had an argument with a friend that wants me to heal in a raid.
i refuse to. for one I have not played heals for i healed for 8 years on my minstrel. No more.. and 2 i'm not geared for healing nor am I taking the time to gear. I have done all i can time wise to get a build for red and blue.
I dont think in yellow u build wrath fast enough or hold it for healing efficiently . I have seen good healing bears. I have seen good healing rks. I am tentatively a good healing minstrel. Yet there are good healing bears. I am not one of them . I will not be a main healer. To be a good beorning you must read all your skills and know what they do. the descriptions are vague . No creeps will fight me even in red line solo.
With the proper build you are hard to kill with 4 creeps. We are an off everything class. Yet , if you are good at your class you can get brought into a raid/group. Most people you dont see advertising for a beorning. It is an under estimated class. I also recommend dont play a beorning as a mouse clicker. Use hot keys primarily. I can tank fine. I can dps fine... its just whether or not we are enough dps. If the tank dies we can easily pick up til he gets rezzed. its the same way when the warden came out.

They can dps if you don't have a Champ, RK, Warden, Hunter, Loremaster etc. Which are superior Dps. Problem is there are quite a few of these about.

You can heal if you don't have a minstrel or RK, but the game isn't short of these either. Or bring a yellow minstrel and have a massive damage buff to the group and heals and dps if content is easy enough.

They can tank content, but with a minstrel healing so could a Champ. There are better tanks that's for sure.

Players will take the easier more optimal dps/healing/tanking and Beornings do not fall into this category. They are more Tolerated than Wanted.

They excell at nothing and are inferior in every category, by a fair amount in some roles.

[Nyuszika]

Yes. Its right. Beorning is primary dps class, but something is wrong with dps. U can run with 80k-100K PMastery and good crits, but cant do extreme high dps as champions ,wardens or rks (or AOE guardians 30k/sec dps and its sadly!!!) . Beorning can do max. 10-20K damage/sec., glass cannon max. 25k damage/sec. I think the attack animations are too slow, and targets numbers are too low (or wrath cost is too high with relentless maul cd). The "clever ones" say that because I did not play well enough, but who says blind not to see that how much hit others. Everybody can install dps meter, and see it.

[Joedangod]

Beorning is primary dps class

Perhaps Turbine should clarify what Beornings role is first. At the moment it is just an incredibly weak jack-of-all-trades, none of the roles are notably better developed than the others.

[CyrylLionSoul]

I have used Beorning since it was released and switch between red/yellow line as needed. The class is nearly indestructible if geared correctly with proper virtues/tomes maxed out. I have hit level cap and completed almost all content solo(Without Valor packs). While it is true in PvMp situations they are not as developed compared to other classes , it should be stated that normally a 'Jack of all trades' is often better in solo ability while often lost in a party play. I'm pleases with how the class functions in either form and wouldn't expect anything less considering Beorn himself was not always fighting but would do so if need or desire , that being said he also took a similar approach to support of Thorin's company. Turbine did a good job depicting his race for the most part , however a few adjustments are a must(See other comments in thread for more info). I think the lack of a defined role is a difficult concept for the cut and dry lotro player. I prefer to be alone and party when I'm bored of my limitless freedom and that my friend is the true role of the class.

[Joedangod]

I think the lack of a defined role is a difficult concept for the cut and dry lotro player. I prefer to be alone and party when I'm bored of my limitless freedom and that my friend is the true role of the class.

Warden does the solo thing better as well. The "loner" concept probably isn't a good plan for a class in an MMORPG either.