Rotation as a Bowmaster

[VortexGR]

Hi guys! Was wandering wht kind of a single target rotation you use.So far mine is: -swift bow whenever is available
-Upshot with full focus
-Blood Arrow when is available
-Penetrating shot if Blood Arrow and Upshot is on CD
-Fill focus with Quick Shot

[idontcare789]

Hi guys! Was wandering wht kind of a single target rotation you use.So far mine is: -swift bow whenever is available
-Upshot with full focus
-Blood Arrow when is available
-Penetrating shot if Blood Arrow and Upshot is on CD
-Fill focus with Quick Shot

I find blood arrow a complete waste and upshot is good, when it crits, but junk otherwise. Full focus, qs x3 to get the induction but at max, qs ps qs ps, sb when it procs no induct and hs when it procs no induct. When the focus buff comes up spam pen shot till focus is gone. then rebuild it.

[007Squanto]

I use the Heart Seeker set from Osgiliath so my rotation is a bit different.

From stealth I generally burnhot+focus, then swift bow +upshot and intent concentration/dev pot to restore focus. Then....

Penshot x1000 until heart seeker is up, use that, rinse and repeat. Quick shot every now and then when focus is low, and if I get an instant swift bow I will definitely use it.

[Gabli]

I find blood arrow a complete waste and upshot is good, when it crits, but junk otherwise. Full focus, qs x3 to get the induction but at max, qs ps qs ps, sb when it procs no induct and hs when it procs no induct. When the focus buff comes up spam pen shot till focus is gone. then rebuild it.

This must be the worst "rotation" advice I've read here...

Blood Arrow "a complete waste" ???
spam PS till focus is gone ???



What you first want as a Bowmaster is to get osgiliath 4-set bonus. Then you don't have an actual rotation but more of a priority system depending on procs (buffbar helps on that matter).
The other thing to remember is to reduce "idle" time as much as possible, basically by following every skill that has a long post-attack delay with a "Fast" skill (aka focus shots).
Never use Heart-Seeker, Swift Bow, Barbed Arrow or Merciful Shot if you can't use a focus shot immediatly after.

The base of your rotation will be [Quick Shot - Penetrating Shot] chains.
Squeeze instant HS when it procs.
Squeeze instant SB when it procs. With osgiliath 2-set its cooldown is 7s while the proc lasts 10s, so with practice and a bit of luck you'll sometimes be able to use fire 2 instant SB with a single proc (the proc can't be refreshed)
Use Blood Arrow instead of PS as often as possible.
Use Upshot if you have 6+ focus (you can fire at 5+ if you have the Helm's Deep crit proc, as US has a larger critical multiplier than most skills). If possible, use Exsanguinate immediately after. Use oils !
Barbed Arrow (only if you have the DoT legacy) depending on focus.
Non-instant SB when you don't have Strong Draw proc (focus cost of PS and Blood Arrow), low focus and the HD crit proc.
Try to keep track of your "Fast Draw" buff : make sure you fire at QS least once every 6s to refresh it or you'll loose your induction speed bonus and have to tier it again to 3.

All in all, keep track of those procs :
- Instant Heart-Seeker
- Instant Swift Bow
- Tenacious Hunter
- Strong Draw
- Fast Draw


Practice actually helps to get the right feeling and a smooth "rotation".

[idontcare789]

This must be the worst "rotation" advice I've read here...

Blood Arrow "a complete waste" ???
spam PS till focus is gone ???



What you first want as a Bowmaster is to get osgiliath 4-set bonus. Then you don't have an actual rotation but more of a priority system depending on procs (buffbar helps on that matter).
The other thing to remember is to reduce "idle" time as much as possible, basically by following every skill that has a long post-attack delay with a "Fast" skill (aka focus shots).
Never use Heart-Seeker, Swift Bow, Barbed Arrow or Merciful Shot if you can't use a focus shot immediatly after.

The base of your rotation will be [Quick Shot - Penetrating Shot] chains.
Squeeze instant HS when it procs.
Squeeze instant SB when it procs. With osgiliath 2-set its cooldown is 7s while the proc lasts 10s, so with practice and a bit of luck you'll sometimes be able to use fire 2 instant SB with a single proc (the proc can't be refreshed)
Use Blood Arrow instead of PS as often as possible.
Use Upshot if you have 6+ focus (you can fire at 5+ if you have the Helm's Deep crit proc, as US has a larger critical multiplier than most skills). If possible, use Exsanguinate immediately after. Use oils !
Barbed Arrow (only if you have the DoT legacy) depending on focus.
Non-instant SB when you don't have Strong Draw proc (focus cost of PS and Blood Arrow), low focus and the HD crit proc.
Try to keep track of your "Fast Draw" buff : make sure you fire at QS least once every 6s to refresh it or you'll loose your induction speed bonus and have to tier it again to 3.

All in all, keep track of those procs :
- Instant Heart-Seeker
- Instant Swift Bow
- Tenacious Hunter
- Strong Draw
- Fast Draw


Practice actually helps to get the right feeling and a smooth "rotation".

You can believe in BA all you want. It doesnt work for me. Period. This is where you will get varying degrees of mileage will vary with skill. BA does not work for me. You pretty much(in more words) said what I said with the exception of not fully using the focus burn. with 3 qs buffs up and full focus with focus buff up thats 4 pen shots(you spam this when sb buff is up but hs isnt) most likely the 4 pens will proc a hs, pop it, then insta sb and with crits youre 3-4 focus back up.

Ive done this since oh idk forever(focus burn back before trait trees and a modified burn now) and the dps speaks for itself.

[Gabli]

You can believe in BA all you want. It doesnt work for me. Period. This is where you will get varying degrees of mileage will vary with skill. BA does not work for me.

There is no "it does not work for me". The skill is awesome and will statistically hit much harder than PS, end of story.
Check that 18min parse below, BA hits on average 38% harder than PS, and Snowbourn Nemesis dummies are known for fairly high mitigation. Deciding not to use a skill that hits so much harder is plain stupid.

You pretty much(in more words) said what I said with the exception of not fully using the focus burn. with 3 qs buffs up and full focus with focus buff up thats 4 pen shots(you spam this when sb buff is up but hs isnt) most likely the 4 pens will proc a hs, pop it, then insta sb and with crits youre 3-4 focus back up.

Ive done this since oh idk forever(focus burn back before trait trees and a modified burn now) and the dps speaks for itself.

Using focus shots until you deplete focus means you have to fire focus builders back to back, ending up with down time in between shots which will decrease your dps. It is simply not an optimal rotation.
I don't know what kind of numbers you get with your rotation, but I seriousy doubt they "speak for themselves".

[Patriotp3a]

I'm still unsure why you're all having this conversation. Use *Osgiliath's Bowmaster 4-pieces bonus and enjoy instant HS* without ever wondering wether it's a good option or not

Pulled from another thread.
*Insert Blood Arrow

[usernamealreadyinuse]

BA and PS are practically identical in every way except that BA does more damage.



Doesnt really seem like a question of playstyle to me. If you dont trait blood arrow, you are doing less damage. Plus exsanguinate is mad, it feels faster to me than other focus skills, I prefer to use it to cut HS or SB delays if possible.

[SpicyMacHaggis]

BA and PS are practically identical in every way except that BA does more damage.



Doesnt really seem like a question of playstyle to me. If you dont trait blood arrow, you are doing less damage. Plus exsanguinate is mad, it feels faster to me than other focus skills, I prefer to use it to cut HS or SB delays if possible.

Exsanguinate should only be used to cut the upshot delay as you can't cut that one with BA/PS as you won't have focus.

This being said: wtb lower cd for exsanguinate.

[Patriotp3a]

Exsanguinate should only be used to cut the upshot delay as you can't cut that one with BA/PS as you won't have focus.

This.

Also, if you get used to the timing, you can add barb arrow within your rotation w/o sacrificing SnT/Double SB as well as letting FD expire. With any sort of skill lag, I would recommend not rotating barb

Wtb blinding icon debuff removal for exang

[Snowlock]

I don't use blood arrow any more either. I'd rather have the Rain of Thorns spam capability when needed. If I go far enough into Blue to get Blood Arrow and exsanguinate, I'm losing other stuff I like, especial AOE. I wouldn't argue that BA isn't powerful or "better" than p-shot, but i got the dps I need from p-shot and more utility by having more points in red to spend.

[SpicyMacHaggis]

I don't use blood arrow any more either. I'd rather have the Rain of Thorns spam capability when needed. If I go far enough into Blue to get Blood Arrow and exsanguinate, I'm losing other stuff I like, especial AOE. I wouldn't argue that BA isn't powerful or "better" than p-shot, but i got the dps I need from p-shot and more utility by having more points in red to spend.

What other stuff?

http://www.lotrottp.lotrostatus.com/l.php?c=4qK
A build like this covers most if not all i'd say (obviously alterations can be made depending on play style).

[Snowlock]

Impact arrows
Precision
Full Fast Draw
Full True Shot
Full Mercy Kill
1 rank of preserverance

I have no need for quick escape and I only run strength in moors.

[idontcare789]

Another hunter and I got into this conversation on my server last night. He, like me, cant get BA to work like PS does. You can look at the tooltip all you want, you can read all the numbers you want but in real time application skills do not work the same for every person. This has been tried and tested the the beaten horse is a pile of mush. I 12 box hunters and this one thats my main out dps's the other 11 by miles, spoke with another 6 boxing hunter and he said his lead did the same thing.

FYI I did parse last night at around 14k dps w/o BA(I couldnt find an lm to battery me while i pew pewed so I got to about 4 minutes then was out of power)

[Gabli]

Impact arrows
Precision
Full Fast Draw
Full True Shot
Full Mercy Kill
1 rank of preserverance

I have no need for quick escape and I only run strength in moors.

Typo ? Otherwise, why trait precision if you run strength ?
Impact Arrows actually does not do much as those +5% are added on top of your PM bonus, so granting you have good gear your ranged bonus will already be ~ +200% or more (+205% with Impact Arrows). Actual dps gain would be 305/300 : 1.6%.
I don't think it's worth 10 trait points.

Another hunter and I got into this conversation on my server last night. He, like me, cant get BA to work like PS does. You can look at the tooltip all you want, you can read all the numbers you want but in real time application skills do not work the same for every person. This has been tried and tested the the beaten horse is a pile of mush. I 12 box hunters and this one thats my main out dps's the other 11 by miles, spoke with another 6 boxing hunter and he said his lead did the same thing.

Then you found another hunter who does not understand that a skill that has identical focus cost, identical execution time and higher damage output is a better DPS skill.

FYI I did parse last night at around 14k dps w/o BA(I couldnt find an lm to battery me while i pew pewed so I got to about 4 minutes then was out of power)

What was the target ? DA's dummy ? For long parses no need for LM battery (I never have one, and I would never ask anyone to power me up for 18min ), just use class essence and regen food.
No matter what your parse or target, if you do a 3min one with Blood Arrow just check skills' average damage : BA will easily surpass PS.

[Snowlock]

Typo ? Otherwise, why trait precision if you run strength ?
Impact Arrows actually does not do much as those +5% are added on top of your PM bonus, so granting you have good gear your ranged bonus will already be ~ +200% or more (+205% with Impact Arrows). Actual dps gain would be 305/300 : 1.6%.
I don't think it's worth 10 trait points.

I use a different traitline for pvp, modified to take advantage of quickshot and quickshot slow (strength stance).

My opinion on impact arrows is that if there is a skill or buff or trait that increase all skills by a percentage, it's likely more valuable than a single skill increase. there are tons of excepts, but as a general rule. For me the big thing is how the hunter plays. I dont need to max damage if I can get a fast rotation and the combat feels smooth and flowing. The content we have doesn't seem to require the kind of min/maxing that I have done in the past, and generally speaking I can hold my own if not flat out beat a fire RK or (under the right conditions) out-aoe a champ.

[Patriotp3a]

I use a different traitline for pvp, modified to take advantage of quickshot and quickshot slow (strength stance).

My opinion on impact arrows is that if there is a skill or buff or trait that increase all skills by a percentage, it's likely more valuable than a single skill increase. there are tons of excepts, but as a general rule. For me the big thing is how the hunter plays. I dont need to max damage if I can get a fast rotation and the combat feels smooth and flowing. The content we have doesn't seem to require the kind of min/maxing that I have done in the past, and generally speaking I can hold my own if not flat out beat a fire RK or (under the right conditions) out-aoe a champ.

As Gabli said, the actual dps boost from impact arrows (i used to trait it as well) isn't all that high. Blood arrow adds far more dmg boost (by itself) than 5/5 impact; then you add exang. procs cutting upshot animations. Although it does take some getting used to, the rotation is quite smooth.
I'll have to agree with you with min/maxing; optimizing builds is nice but by no means a requirement.

[Snowlock]

As Gabli said, the actual dps boost from impact arrows (i used to trait it as well) isn't all that high. Blood arrow adds far more dmg boost (by itself) than 5/5 impact; then you add exang. procs cutting upshot animations. Although it does take some getting used to, the rotation is quite smooth.
I'll have to agree with you with min/maxing; optimizing builds is nice but by no means a requirement.

If I would give up impact arrows, I'd be more tempted by barbed fury. Or, I'd be tempted by exsanguinate, want barbed fury, see I couldn't get both, and give up, staying with Impact Arrows :-)

[idontcare789]

Did some more testing last night, went back an revisited blood arrow and I dropped about 1500 dps. Its a ghost in the machine. This doesnt surprise me, its not the first time. I was using heartseeker to the lengths people though was insane back when it had a lengthy induction because the thing crit, and crit well for me but it didnt for others.

I 12 box identically geared hunters. Same in every way. My r14(outside the moors so no advantage there) without a doubt out dps's the other 11 by miles. I know of another 6 boxer that says his lead(head) does the same thing, just out preforms the others by miles. Things look good on paper(tooltip) but in actual use they dont work like that. I mean 30% crit but every parse I am seeing 41+% crits, on hundreds of skill uses.

[Patriotp3a]

Did some more testing last night, went back an revisited blood arrow and I dropped about 1500 dps. Its a ghost in the machine. This doesnt surprise me, its not the first time. I was using heartseeker to the lengths people though was insane back when it had a lengthy induction because the thing crit, and crit well for me but it didnt for others.

I 12 box identically geared hunters. Same in every way. My r14(outside the moors so no advantage there) without a doubt out dps's the other 11 by miles. I know of another 6 boxer that says his lead(head) does the same thing, just out preforms the others by miles. Things look good on paper(tooltip) but in actual use they dont work like that. I mean 30% crit but every parse I am seeing 41+% crits, on hundreds of skill uses.

It just doesn't make sense for BA to be a dps loss if used whenever it is off cooldown.

I did a good amount of testing last night; compared max crit/dev hits for each skill using DA and SB dummies, I also used the hunter dagger along with the mace.


Snowbourn:
using the mace, blood arrow crits went up 44% compared to penetrating shot, devs went up 68%
using the dagger, blood arrow crits went up 41% compared to penetrating shot, devs went up 66%

Dol Amroth:
using the mace, blood arrow crits went up 40% compared to penetrating shot, devs went up 63%
using the dagger, blood arrow crits went up 48% compared to penetrating shot, devs went up 62%*(?)

considering crit heavy builds being the best builds along with our actual crit%(let us use your example) for extended fights, that is alot of damage being given up every 10 seconds. Then add exanguinate/upshot and the gap just keeps getting bigger.

[Gabli]

Did some more testing last night, went back an revisited blood arrow and I dropped about 1500 dps.

Did you check BlA & PS critical and devastating rate ? What was the length of the parse ?
Anyway, a drop of 1500 dps cannot be due to using BlA over PS. PS alone will barely do 1500 (with the rotation I use, on Snowbpourne Nemesis dummies), and probably 2500-3000 dps max with a focus burn rotation with precision stance. Using BlA over PS once every 10sec will never be responsible for such a gap.
The dps difference was probably due to difference in other skills crits and/or procs frequency.

Checkin the overall dps gain/loss of a parse is only representative for long parses in the same conditions. I bet this was not the case for you.

I 12 box identically geared hunters. Same in every way. My r14(outside the moors so no advantage there) without a doubt out dps's the other 11 by miles. I know of another 6 boxer that says his lead(head) does the same thing, just out preforms the others by miles. Things look good on paper(tooltip) but in actual use they dont work like that. I mean 30% crit but every parse I am seeing 41+% crits, on hundreds of skill uses.

Of course your main will do more dps than the others as you will adapt your rotation to your main toon's procs, and as such boxed toons' rotation will be completely f**k'ed up.
If they really are identicaly geared (gear, virtues, stat tomes etc...), if you "main" a boxed chat on a dummy you will do the same dps than with your "main". This is common sense.

About crit %, don't be fooled if you are using fire oils. For some reason, Searing Heat always has 75-80% critical hit rate and since it's always on the target, it will represent a large sample (in n# of skill use) and will skew overall critical percentage that CA will show.
Check individual skills crit/dev rate and you will find it is not so far from expected values on lvl 100 enemies.