[Protest] Reasons why 1995 TP is not a consistent price and will drive away players.

[DiogoVP]

Before anyone comes here on this thread and say "wrong forum section", I chose this section so that this thread can reach a broader range of players that can opine on this matter that I know that is of interest for many people. Not everyone who uses this forum visit the Bullroarer forums and since this thread does not contain innappropriate spoilers and this info should be known to everyone before U18 is released, I decided that it is here I am gonna post.

QuartermasterU recently posted Turbines's reasoning behind the new area's quest pack price.

There have been some questions around the pricing of the new region pack: “Region Pack: Far Anórien”.


We took into consideration of current pricing, historical pricing, free points, and what the goals were for this particular set of content.
*Quest packs: typically 595 – 795tp. Current pricing since Great River has been 1x Quest Pack = 795tp (some of these, have in fact, included instances)
*Instance Clusters: 1495tp (Rohan and Isengard)
*Raids: As we’ve only sold one individually at 1295tp, we took this into consideration as well.


The plan:
For u18, the Region Pack will give you access to all new quest content (70+ quests), deeds,
the instance cluster (3 instances), and also give you access to the raid (more information TBD)
when that arrives with u18.2.



1495+795 = 2290 tp
Current price: 1995tp

Unfortunely, that is not a consistent reasoning at all. And since I know that many players were not convinced (including me) by this explanation and knowing that many people are going to be dismotivated, I decided to present actual consistent reasons why 1995 TP is not consistent with the prices we've seen before.
- Some points:

1) Let's consider that instance cluster separately from the raid. Eastern Gondor also had a similar instance cluster for 795 TP. So to be fair, the quest pack with all the instances except for the raid should cost 795 TP. The raid QuartermasterU is mentioning that is sold separately (Draigoch) is both a 12-man and 24-man raid, which is not the case of the U18.2 raid. But let's ignore this for a moment. 795 (Quest Pack + 3 instances) + 1295 (U18.2 raid): 2090 TP.

2) Let's consider some expansions:

2A) TP savings:

Mines of Moria: 350+ quests, 150+ deeds, 7 6-man instances, 2 12-man raids, 2 character slots, 2 classes, skirmish trait max rank: 15. Price: 2495 TP

A) Quest pack: 1495 TP
B) 2 Character Slots: 1190 TP
C) Warden And Rune-Keeper Classes: 1590 TP
Total price: 4295 TP.

Buying the expansion saves you 1780 TP, or +/- 58% * 4295 TP.

Rise of Isengard: 375+ quests, 80+ deeds, 3 3-man instances, 1 6-man instance, 2 12-man raids, 1 24-man raid, skirmish trait max rank: 35. Price: 2495 TP

A) Quest pack: 1495 TP
B) Instance Cluster: 1495 TP
C) Draigoch raid: 1250 TP
Total price: 4240 TP.

Buying the expansion saves you 1745 TP, or +/- 59% * 4240 TP.

Riders of Rohan: 400+ quests, 99+ deeds, 3 3-man instances, 1 6-man instance, 3 12-man raids, Mounted Combat Light Trait Tree, Mounted Combat Heavy Trait Tree, Steed of the Eastemnet, Title: Friend of the Mark, Skirmish Trait Max Rank: 40. Price: 2495 TP

A) Quest pack: 1495 TP
B) Instance Cluster: 1495 TP
C)Heavy and Light Trait Tree Specs: 1190 TP
Total price: 4180 TP.

Buying the expansion saves you 1685 TP, or +/- 60% * 4180 TP.

Helm's Deep: 400+ quests, Around 38 deeds, 5 Epic Battles, Skirmish Trait Max Rank 45, Enforcer of Helm Title, Hauberk of the Hammerhand. Price: 4295 TP

This is a special case, because we don't know the reasoning behind this price and we don't know why this Expansion cost almost twice as much as the other expansions. If it's because of the Epic Battles, the quests, or both, is something that we don't know. What is certain is that LOTRO lost many players after the release of this expansion and devs started to consider merging the servers. One year later, the community was already aware of Turbine's plan to merge the servers. Of course, there were many reasons for such a great amount of players leaving the game. Many players didn't enjoy the epic battle system and missed old types of raids, but according to some people at Turbine, only a small percentage of players are raiders. If that is true, then what else could have driven such an amount of players out of the game? It's possible that some players decided to wait until the price of HD dropped like the price of the other expansions did after a few months, but after realizing that it was going to remain the same, they simply got dismotivated and that price is likely one of the factors that contributed to such a great amount of players leaving the game.

2B) Deeds:

Moria and Isengard deeds from Instance Cluster award Turbine Points, which makes possible for those with plenty of alts to refund measurable amount of the Turbine Points they spent on the Expansions. That is not the case for the instance clusters of Erebor and Gondor, which if you follow that logic, should cost less Turbine Points than other Instance clusters to begin with.

3) Enedwaith and Mirkwood have bigger Instance Clusters and their prices are not even half as expensive as Far Anorien.

4) Let's look at what new players who want to raid have to deal with: in order to have all (or most of) the class trait points, which they probably will need, they have to buy HD (4295 TP), Central & Eastern Gondor, Old and Far Anorien (4380 TP). 4295 + 4380: 8675 TP. Yeah, that is what a new player has to deal with if he wants to do your new raid on T2C. Reasonable? I am not even mentioning the other quest/expansion packs they will have to buy in order to get to level 105.

5) Common sense! Why repeat the same mistakes? It is obvious that many players will get very dismotivated when they see that price, like they did when they saw HD. We're looking at a community that finds itself getting smaller everyday and many are not putting much faith in that raid and you want to charge 1995 TP for its quest pack. Out of all the time I've been here on the forums, I've never seen hopeless/dismotivated people among the community as I see now. LOTRO has just gone through a process of server merges in order to make servers look more active. Finding groups for raids is not as easy as it was all those years ago and this price will only make that group even more closed, which will certainly drive away a significant amount of players from the game.

Conclusion:

In order to be truly consistent, sell Quest Packs and Raid separetely and by buying the whole Quest Pack + Raid bundle, you should multiply 2090 TP (Far Anorien Quest Pack + Raid separately) by 60% (Proportion between "Outlay by buying items from expansion separately"/"Outlay by buying full expansion"), which is 1254 TP.
I am only considering the points 1 and 2 here. If I take everything in consideration, I think Far Anorien (The whole pack) should cost not more than 995 TP. The Quest Pack should cost 795 TP and the raid 795 TP. So by buying the bundle, you keep the consistency and have a 40% worth of TP saving. So summarizing:

A) Far Anorien Quest pack : 795 TP (Includes instances seen in U18, keeping consistency with Eastern Gondor Quest Pack price)
B) Battle of the Pelennor Fields raid: 795 TP
C) Far Anorien + Battle of the Pelennor Fields raid: 995 TP

Dear Turbine, this is the last time I warn you about this. I've sent PMs to many of you since April asking to re-evaluate the grind and you only took actions when I created a thread that became so filled with discouraged players. You were warned multiple times for many months and never took it seriously. When you finally realized your mistake, it was a little too late for many. Are we going to repeat history here again? Why so much reluctance? Do you think the profit you'll get by charging this price is worth the risk of losing a lot of players?
That said, I created this thread because I wouldn't feel ok with myself if I didn't speak up. I cannot allow you to mess up without at least trying to sway you from this folly. So, whatever decision you make in April 11th, I'll rest assured that I tried and will not stress.

[MourneBlade]

Go VIP, ya know get a sub. If you can't afford it go mow a few lawns on the weekend. You could knock out quite a few lawns in way less time than grinding TP's

There are no more paid expansion packs so your arguments there are invalid......

Also claiming the TP price will drive away players is your opinion not a fact!

[Turiban]

Before anyone comes here on this thread and say "wrong forum section", I chose this section so that this thread can reach a broader range of players that can opine on this matter that I know that is of interest for many people. Not everyone who uses this forum visit the Bullroarer forums and since this thread does not contain innappropriate spoilers and this info should be known to everyone before U18 is released, I decided that it is here I am gonna post.

QuartermasterU recently posted Turbines's reasoning behind the new area's quest pack price.


Unfortunely, that is not a consistent reasoning at all. And since I know that many players were not convinced (including me) by this explanation and knowing that many people are going to be dismotivated, I decided to present actual consistent reasons why 1995 TP is not consistent with the prices we've seen before.
- Some points:

1) Let's consider that instance cluster separately from the raid. Eastern Gondor also had a similar instance cluster for 795 TP. So to be fair, the quest pack with all the instances except for the raid should cost 795 TP. The raid you're mentioning that you sold separately once is both a 12-man and 24-man raid, which is not the case of the U18.2 raid. But let's ignore this fact for the moment. 795 (Quest Pack + 3 instances) + 1295 (U18.2 raid): 2090 TP.

2) Let's consider some expansions:

2A) TP savings:

Mines of Moria: 350+ quests, 150+ deeds, 7 6-man instances, 2 12-man raids, 2 character slots, 2 classes, skirmish trait max rank: 15. Price: 2495 TP

A) Quest pack: 1495 TP
B) 2 Character Slots: 1190 TP
C) Warden And Rune-Keeper Classes: 1590 TP
Total price: 4295 TP.

Buying the expansion saves you 1780 TP, or +/- 58% * 4295 TP.

Rise of Isengard: 375+ quests, 80+ deeds, 3 3-man instances, 1 6-man instance, 2 12-man raids, 1 24-man raid, skirmish trait max rank: 35. Price: 2495 TP

A) Quest pack: 1495 TP
B) Instance Cluster: 1495 TP
C) Draigoch raid: 1250 TP
Total price: 4240 TP.

Buying the expansion saves you 1745 TP, or +/- 59% * 4240 TP.

Riders of Rohan: 400+ quests, 99+ deeds, 3 3-man instances, 1 6-man instance, 3 12-man raids, Mounted Combat Light Trait Tree, Mounted Combat Heavy Trait Tree, Steed of the Eastemnet, Title: Friend of the Mark, Skirmish Trait Max Rank: 40. Price: 2495 TP

A) Quest pack: 1495 TP
B) Instance Cluster: 1495 TP
C)Heavy and Light Trait Tree Specs: 1190 TP
Total price: 4180 TP.

Buying the expansion saves you 1685 TP, or +/- 60% * 4180 TP.

I won't mention HD because that price has always been ridiculous.

2B) Deeds:

Moria and Isengard deeds from Instance Cluster award Turbine Points, which makes possible for those with plenty of alts to refund measurable amount of the Turbine Points they spent on the Expansions. That is not the case for the instance clusters of Erebor and Gondor, which if you follow that logic, should cost less Turbine Points than other Instance clusters to begin with.

3) Already mentioned it, but Enedwaith and Mirkwood have bigger Instance Clusters and their prices are not even half as expensive as Far Anorien.

4) Let's look at what new players who want to raid have to deal with: in order to have all (or most of) the class trait points, which they probably will need, they have to buy HD (4295 TP), Central & Eastern Gondor, Old and Far Anorien (4380 TP). 4295 + 4380: 8675 TP. Yeah, that is what a new player has to deal with if he wants to do your new raid on T2C. Reasonable? I am not even mentioning the other quest/expansion packs they will have to buy in order to get to level 105.

5) Common sense! Why repeat the same mistakes? It is obvious that many players will get very dismotivated when they see that price, like they did when they saw HD. We're looking at a community that finds itself getting smaller everyday and many are not putting much faith in that raid and you want to charge 1995 TP for its quest pack. Out of all the time I've been here on the forums, I've never seen hopeless/dismotivated people among the community as I see now. LOTRO has just gone through a process of server merges in order to make servers look more active. Finding groups for raids is not as easy as it was all those years ago and this price will only make that group even more closed, which will certainly drive away a significant amount of players from the game.

Conclusion:

In order to be truly consistent, sell Quest Packs and Raid separetely and by buying the whole Quest Pack + Raid bundle, you should multiply 2090 TP (Far Anorien Quest Pack + Raid separately) by 60% (Proportion between "Outlay by buying items from expansion separately"/"Outlay by buying full expansion"), which is 1254 TP.
I am only considering the points 1 and 2 here. If I take everything in consideration, I think Far Anorien (The whole pack) should cost not more than 995 TP. The Quest Pack should cost 795 TP and the raid 795 TP. So by buying the bundle, you keep the consistency and have a 40% worth of TP saving. So summarizing:

A) Far Anorien Quest pack : 795 TP (Includes instances seen in U18, keeping consistency with Eastern Gondor Quest Pack price)
B) Battle of the Pelennor Fields raid: 795 TP
C) Far Anorien + Battle of the Pelennor Fields raid: 995 TP

Dear Turbine, this is the last time I warn you about this. I've sent PMs to many of you since April asking to re-evaluate the grind and you only took actions when I created a thread that became so filled with discouraged players. You were warned multiple times for many months and never took it seriously. When you finally realized your mistake, it was a little too late for many. Are we going to repeat history here again? Why so much reluctance? Do you think the profit you'll get by charging this price is worth the risk of losing a lot of players?
That said, I created this thread because I wouldn't feel ok with myself if I didn't speak up. I cannot allow you to mess up without at least trying to sway you from this folly. So, whatever decision you make in April 11th, I'll rest assured that I tried and will not stress.

Hi there,

Very Nice post and thank you for the feedback.
I totally agree with you, but losing players is not something they are worried about, at all..
Somehow they feel this "update" is worth that "much" TP.
To be honest, I would be more concerned about the current state of the game, than some pricing of a one-time and account-wide purchase for your account.
All what we have already is worth less than junk, if we can't play as how we bought the content at. (new traittrees, new classes, broken content, impressive lag and unpalatable situations, which are very annoying at some point and ofcourse the reluctance in fixing broken skills, attributes and gameplay in general)

How about they address the fact that the new PvMP-map isn't being used as much?

I understand you're sentiment of not feeling to post in the forums and going through all the hassle to make-up a post, just to be ignored again and again or even worse and become a laughing stock or a target for mockery.

Have a good game and fun!

See you
I feel like every update brings some other problems for the whole game and thus playerbase.

[The_Warg]

Very well thought out post!

[Urwendil]

I see this pricing driving away many premium/free players of all kinds of gaming priorities, although as a subscriber it doesn't affect me directly.

Please -at least- offer the quest pack and the instance cluster + raid separately with a discount on the bundle making it more attractive.

The permanent discount on the Tortoise Stone pricing has been the only wise move you have made in regards to selling more for less and it's been years since then. I don't think the whales alone will be enough to keep the game afloat and, although it's purely a conjecture, l don't suppose enough of them would be interested in [little more than] a raid anyway.

Enough bleeding the game with awful business decisions. It's well past time to wake up.

[Seeker]

I have to agree. That price for the next region is far too high! When I heard about this on the World chat I couldn't believe it. It won't lose me as a player as I'm still level 50 but I probably won't get that pack when I get to level 100. I am simply not interested in raids. That is not why I play this game. Also I play very late at night when fewer people are around and to have to pay for raids that I don't want is just too much. Better to use your solution and sell the next region in modular fashion with discounts for getting the whole thing. I am happy to buy the quest pack alone for 795 TP. That is a realistic grind. I managed to grind for the other packs. I was happy to buy the other expansions with real money but they had more content and HD was vital to continue with the epic quest. So please Turbine, please allow those of us not interested in raids to obtain the quest pack on it's own for 795 TP. It's good business to keep a variety of customers happy. You will still have people logging in to grind for the quest pack.

[groucho42]

Go VIP, ya know get a sub. If you can't afford it go mow a few lawns on the weekend. You could knock out quite a few lawns in way less time than grinding TP's

Why would anyone go VIP unless mommy pays their bills? There's very little content, lots of grind and the essence armor is a return of Radiance armor with a bigger grind to add to all the others.

I was a VIP for years but it's just not worth it with what Turbine has done to the game -- even ignoring what they did to some of us when they stole content when we went premium. Almost all players I know are either lifers or f2p folks. There's a reason for that: Turbine didn't value the VIP customer and stopped creating interesting content years ago.

[MourneBlade]

Why would anyone go VIP unless mommy pays their bills? There's very little content, lots of grind and the essence armor is a return of Radiance armor with a bigger grind to add to all the others.

I was a VIP for years but it's just not worth it with what Turbine has done to the game -- even ignoring what they did to some of us when they stole content when we went premium. Almost all players I know are either lifers or f2p folks. There's a reason for that: Turbine didn't value the VIP customer and stopped creating interesting content years ago.

Sorry to tell ya kid Most VIP's and Lifers I know are grown adults with an income-like me. Most f2p's I know are lazy kids that momma won't shell out the CC number to. As for the rest of your statement you don't know much about business do you?

[DiogoVP]

Hi there,

Very Nice post and thank you for the feedback.
I totally agree with you, but losing players is not something they are worried about, at all..
Somehow they feel this "update" is worth that "much" TP.
To be honest, I would be more concerned about the current state of the game, than some pricing of a one-time and account-wide purchase for your account.
All what we have already is worth less than junk, if we can't play as how we bought the content at. (new traittrees, new classes, broken content, impressive lag and unpalatable situations, which are very annoying at some point and ofcourse the reluctance in fixing broken skills, attributes and gameplay in general)

How about they address the fact that the new PvMP-map isn't being used as much?

I understand you're sentiment of not feeling to post in the forums and going through all the hassle to make-up a post, just to be ignored again and again or even worse and become a laughing stock or a target for mockery.

Have a good game and fun!

See you
I feel like every update brings some other problems for the whole game and thus playerbase.

Thanks for your support! I also agree that we are having many players discouraged because of broken content. As I mentioned in my 5th point, I've never seen so much lack of faith here on these forums lately. It's a shame that players that used to give really well thought out feedback are now not posting or visiting the forums anymore. When I started here on the forums, I was very optimist and enthusiastic. I lost much of my enthusiasm and it seems it's not only me, it's a lot of people. My concern, though, is that charging this kind of price will be the last straw for some. And I think it is a well grounded concern. I might have not mentioned this, but I actually can afford the 1995 TP, but I just cannot accept such lack of consistency and out of care for the community I made this thread. And I hope that people who doesn't agree with this price Turbine came up with speak up. Someone mentioned that saying that this price will drive players away is not a fact and he's right. Nothing said about the future is a fact, only projections that can be grounded or not. I never said it was a fact, it's just my predictions and I usually don't miss.

[wispsong]

As I stated in the other forum, I won't be buying it for 2k tp. First, I'm not interested in any instances. I'm still disappointed that I had to do "Ashes and Stars" Osgiliath instances to get to the end of the story. And story is why I play the game. But if that story continues to force me into instances I'll just stop playing. I feel the same about BBs although I understand why they "forced" them. They made sense and could be done solo/duo although HD could have had less and MT only one. Second, there are just not enough quests offered. We only have about 12 quests per level. That is not very many. So far it has taken far more to gain one level.

I normally pay 3-month VIP every year and buy the quest packs. I guess my 100s will play through U18 during that time and the others have to level through Gondor/MT to get to 105. 2k tp for just 60-70 quests and possibly no solo end game is just to much since the other content does not interest me and won't be played by me.

[TharbadThief]

Have you made the calculations based on the prices the aforementioned quest packs / expansions cost now, or what they did cost when they were initially launched? I mean, as far as I can remember, usually the latest area packs' TP cost has plunged after some months from the release.

[DiogoVP]

Have you made the calculations based on the prices the aforementioned quest packs / expansions cost now, or what they did cost when they were initially launched? I mean, as far as I can remember, usually the latest area packs' TP cost has plunged after some months from the release.

Are you saying that buying the full expansion in one pack and buying each part separately cost the same thing? I think it is a safe bet to say that the price for Far Anorien won't change. If they didn't change HD's price in 3 years, 1995 TP is probably here to stay.

[TharbadThief]

Are you saying that buying the full expansion in one pack and buying each part separately cost the same thing? I think it is a safe bet to say that the price for Far Anorien won't change. If they didn't change HD's price in 3 years, 1995 TP is probably here to stay.

Nope, I just asked a question, based on my memory how the area packs have usually lost their value after the so called release rush. Can't remember the details (I would present them if I did), but I remember many of the areas being labelled with a much more pricey TP tag initially, that what they do now.

[wispsong]

I think the x-packs were around 4k tp and the quest-packs around 2k tp. Later released quest packs for the expansion like Wildermore and Great River were 595-795 tp if I remember right. I think I paid 795 tp for each Gondor quest pack and MT.

[DiogoVP]

Nope, I just asked a question, based on my memory how the area packs have usually lost their value after the so called release rush. Can't remember the details (I would present them if I did), but I remember many of the areas being labelled with a much more pricey TP tag initially, that what they do now.

Ok, I am sorry, I misunderstood your question. No, this is not how I made the calculation. The calculation is based on the cost of the expansion versus the cost for buying each part of the expansion separately.
For example: Miners of Moria includes Moria Quest Pack, 2 character slots and 2 classes (warden and RK).
If I buy Miners of Moria I will pay 2495 TP. If I buy Moria's quest pack, plus 2 character slots and the premium classes separately, I will pay 4295 TP. By dividing 2495 / 4295, I have 58%. So buying the full expansion is 42% cheaper than buying each part separately.

Edit: the logic here is that if I pay 795 TP for Far Anorien's QP and 795 TP for the raid, I am gonna pay (795 + 795) * 60% = 995 TP (In fact, it (795 + 795) * 60% is 954, but since Turbine likes quest packs prices ending in 95, I suggested 995).

[TharbadThief]

Ok, I am sorry, I misunderstood your question. No, this is not how I made the calculation. The calculation is based on the cost of the expansion versus the cost for buying each part of the expansion separately.
For example: Miners of Moria includes Moria Quest Pack, 2 character slots and 2 classes (warden and RK).
If I buy Miners of Moria I will pay 2495 TP. If I buy Moria's quest pack, plus 2 character slots and the premium classes separately, I will pay 4295 TP. By dividing 2495 / 4295, I have 58%. So buying the full expansion is 42% cheaper than buying each part separately.

But the thing is, I don't think MoM expansion (with all the fluff it contains) cost 2495 TP when it was launched. I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I have a vague feeling it was closer to 4k. And RoI as well.

So, while I agree with you that while 1995 seems a bit too much for one quest pack and few instances, there may be a chance of comparing apples to oranges if we only take into account the current price tags of Ye Olde Content.

By the way, does anyone have any idea how big a difference do the "free points" and "goals for the particular set of content" make in the pricing?

[Pontin_Finnberry]

I have to Agree 1995 TP maybe much for a quest pack, but then again i don't care much anyway but looking back at U16 3 instances and quest 795 TP i think Far Anorien with a raid added should be 1295 TP being that its NOT an expansion and a quest pack should be less, but then again this is a lunch of an Update the price will be high at first i guess this time cause of a raid. also i don't think it will drive away player i am Premium players and will still play.

[dstini]

It is a bad price. And there was no warning so no one could save tp properly for this 250% increase.

Time will tell if the content is worth the exaggerated premium, but I strongly doubt it.

And the argument about its "relative" cheapness or attempted insults about salary are absurd. I have a grown man job with a grown man salary, but that doesn't mean that I want to spend money on something that's not worth it. That's not a smart way to do anything in life.

[DiogoVP]

But the thing is, I don't think MoM expansion (with all the fluff it contains) cost 2495 TP when it was launched. I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I have a vague feeling it was closer to 4k. And RoI as well.

So, while I agree with you that while 1995 seems a bit too much for one quest pack and few instances, there may be a chance of comparing apples to oranges if we only take into account the current price tags of Ye Olde Content.

By the way, does anyone have any idea how big a difference do the "free points" and "goals for the particular set of content" make in the pricing?

There have been some questions around the pricing of the new region pack: “Region Pack: Far Anórien”.


We took into consideration of current pricing, historical pricing, free points, and what the goals were for this particular set of content.
*Quest packs: typically 595 – 795tp. Current pricing since Great River has been 1x Quest Pack = 795tp (some of these, have in fact, included instances)
*Instance Clusters: 1495tp (Rohan and Isengard)
*Raids: As we’ve only sold one individually at 1295tp, we took this into consideration as well.


The plan:
For u18, the Region Pack will give you access to all new quest content (70+ quests), deeds,
the instance cluster (3 instances), and also give you access to the raid (more information TBD)
when that arrives with u18.2.



1495+795 = 2290 tp
Current price: 1995tp

If I am comparing apples to oranges, then what is QuartermasterU doing? lol
I did exactly what he did, but with a lot more consistent and well thought-out arguments than his.
And I will tell you exactly what I said before, it doesn't matter if the expansions and quest packs were more expensive at a time and then reduced to half the price, the proportion of how much you spent for the full expansion versus each separate part of the expansion was still the same. And that's what I use in the calculus. And as I also said before, this is a different case, since we are likely to have that price stuck at 1995 (except for sales, ofc), since HD has been 4295 TP for years. It's undeniable that the absurd price for an expansion which content wasn't worth its price had something to do with the large amount of players that left LOTRO in 2013/2014 which ultimately resulted in the merges of the servers. And even if this new raid is good, its price is still inconsistent with every other price we've had for other quest packs and expansions (except for HD, which was also inconsistent and look what happened).

[BangoTwinkletoes]

The difficulty with complaining about "price" is that each person has their own notions as to what represents value. Though I am a lifer and so the update is free for me, I can easily spend £30 in the pub on a Friday and so spending £20 on U18 or a tenner a month on VIP is not that much an investment for the time & value obtained from it. The way I see it, Turbine need to earn their crust and given the epic parts are free anyway, I don't really see the issue.

[Beaniemooch]

But the thing is, I don't think MoM expansion (with all the fluff it contains) cost 2495 TP when it was launched. I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, but I have a vague feeling it was closer to 4k. And RoI as well.

So, while I agree with you that while 1995 seems a bit too much for one quest pack and few instances, there may be a chance of comparing apples to oranges if we only take into account the current price tags of Ye Olde Content.

By the way, does anyone have any idea how big a difference do the "free points" and "goals for the particular set of content" make in the pricing?

MoM didn't cost TP at all, it had to be bought with real money. TP didn't come about until F2P. When I started MoM had just come out and I think I shelled out about $50 to buy the game and the Xpac although I couldn't swear to it, it could have been more. I then bought a $199 lifetime account after going VIP for a few months.

As for the suggestion to "go VIP by mowing lawns", I don't consider there anything worth paying a regular VIP sub for. If I wasn't a lifer I sure as hell wouldn't be paying monthly for the content they're putting out.

[Vellrad]

Go VIP, ya know get a sub. If you can't afford it go mow a few lawns on the weekend. You could knock out quite a few lawns in way less time than grinding TP's

lotro is not worth paying a sub fee.
If I'm gonna play monthly fee for a game, then I'm chosing game with best content for the price, AKA not lotro.

[siipperi]

As I stated in the other forum, I won't be buying it for 2k tp. First, I'm not interested in any instances. I'm still disappointed that I had to do "Ashes and Stars" Osgiliath instances to get to the end of the story. And story is why I play the game. But if that story continues to force me into instances I'll just stop playing. I feel the same about BBs although I understand why they "forced" them. They made sense and could be done solo/duo although HD could have had less and MT only one. Second, there are just not enough quests offered. We only have about 12 quests per level. That is not very many. So far it has taken far more to gain one level.

I normally pay 3-month VIP every year and buy the quest packs. I guess my 100s will play through U18 during that time and the others have to level through Gondor/MT to get to 105. 2k tp for just 60-70 quests and possibly no solo end game is just to much since the other content does not interest me and won't be played by me.

Do you cry like this when you have to do epic book solo instances as well? You know you could solo ashes and stars...

[Cambruyn]

Well, I can only speak for myself; I'll not buy it for that price. There's plenty of ways to reach cap and other than quests the 'pack' gives me nothing at all. Unless you consider the famous 'endgame' and deeds content. I prefer to see both as a grind and won't subject myself to either. So no, this quest pack offer me nothing that I don't already have and what it does offer are the things I loathe.

[The_Jagannath]

Sorry to tell ya kid Most VIP's and Lifers I know are grown adults with an income-like me. Most f2p's I know are lazy kids that momma won't shell out the CC number to. As for the rest of your statement you don't know much about business do you?

Nice troll post.

... Also claiming the TP price will drive away players is your opinion not a fact!

Also, claiming that most VIP's and Lifers you know are grown adults with income like you and most f2p's are lazy kids that live with their mothers is your opinion, not a fact!