Champions had shields???

[Fatty]

I was only half paying attention to the kinship chat yesterday, since I was questing, but one conversation was about Champion builds, and one kinnie was lamenting that Champions no longer could use shields. A couple other kinnies were unsure what he was on about, meant he was mixing Champions and Guardians and that the Champion has never been anything other than dual-wield... Did Champions really have shields in the early years of this game?? Makes sense, since the class is supposedly based on Gimli the Dwarf, which carried a shield in the books... And I don't think dual-wielding is in the books at all?

[Orodalf]

Yes, Champions used to have shields.

[Tech6425]

It was a pretty rare thing to see as I recall, not many would trait blue before Isengard came out. If the healer was half decent the old champs could tank stuff in fervour stance and assuredly in glory. You did need to have a beefy incoming healing modifier though

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Makes sense, since the class is supposedly based on Gimli the Dwarf, which carried a shield in the books... And I don't think dual-wielding is in the books at all?

Yes Champion's use to have shields, while the champion is based off of Gimli he didn't use a shield, so its not an issue to me. (at least i don't remember him with a shield in the books...)

[siipperi]

It was a pretty rare thing to see as I recall, not many would trait blue before Isengard came out. If the healer was half decent the old champs could tank stuff in fervour stance and assuredly in glory. You did need to have a beefy incoming healing modifier though

We used champ tank on Eimyr quite often back in day, with shield of course. But yeah rather prefered real tanks back then.

[Thorgrum]

We used champ tank on Eimyr quite often back in day, with shield of course. But yeah rather prefered real tanks back then.

Yes and we used to run the grand stair from moria over and over. The challenge mode (killing Iglash) dropped one of the best shields for heavies at the time, wall of the resolute. Lots of tanks (champs included) vied for one.

[JpC]

I might add, on release champs were the only ones other than guardian to be able to equip heavy shields. There was even a class trait that required block events. Used to go to great barrows and pull those 15 worms in that room to progress the trait. At the time, fervour was a stance, the only one. Tanking meant dropping fervour and spamming wild attack who was the threat generator skill. Swift strike would just deplete your power in no time

[KM3161]

I might add, on release champs were the only ones other than guardian to be able to equip heavy shields. There was even a class trait that required block events. Used to go to great barrows and pull those 15 worms in that room to progress the trait. At the time, fervour was a stance, the only one. Tanking meant dropping fervour and spamming wild attack who was the threat generator skill. Swift strike would just deplete your power in no time

I hated that class trait
I miss carrying a shield-don't like bubbles one bit.
In my kin at the time our main tank(guard) used to go link-dead in instances a lot (especially Carn Dum and Urugarth) and whenever we ran an instance with him one of us champs would always see a bard and trait blue before the instance in case we needed to take over or an off-tank.

well now a blue champ can block again(with a 2h weapon) but i would rather we go back to carry shields.

[Laubgaenger]

The Champion could use normal Shield without sloting anything, he has to slot a blue line skill to use heavy shields.

As the Aggromanagement work in an other way, depending on damage i do not unterstand, why you want to have a shield back.
As Champions do we have a reaktion benefit by blocking something, other as less damage?

My stays in the mid 70.

[Vodomir]

Well, back in the days when Champs were able to use (Heavy) Shields, there wasn't any need to actually wear one, not even for tanking, as most of the stuff could effortlessly be tanked in Fervour as a pure DPS-Tank. About the only time I ever traited blue and equipped a shield was tanking the Watcher back then.

[Schaijian]

Well, back in the days when Champs were able to use (Heavy) Shields, there wasn't any need to actually wear one, not even for tanking, as most of the stuff could effortlessly be tanked in Fervour as a pure DPS-Tank. About the only time I ever traited blue and equipped a shield was tanking the Watcher back then.

Nice to see you back to LOTRO and the champions forum, Vodomir. It was always a pleasure to discuss about champs with you. We´ll meet on Gwaihir. Gwenselah

[JpC]

Well, back in the days when Champs were able to use (Heavy) Shields, there wasn't any need to actually wear one, not even for tanking, as most of the stuff could effortlessly be tanked in Fervour as a pure DPS-Tank. About the only time I ever traited blue and equipped a shield was tanking the Watcher back then.

Vodomir was to the champ class what zonflux is for the guardians. I relied a lot to his guides and knowledge of how to master this class.
I hope we see you active on these boards again!

[Bludborn]

We sure did. I miss having the ability to carry one. I used to have a full array of shields, really, just because I could. I really miss the old aggro management aspect of the champion more than the shield itself though. Being able to use Rising Ire off of your healer and use old Ebbing Ire to your tank (or dump it on someone unsuspecting ). I know it really isn't needed anymore. Just something that I really enjoyed in SoA and Moria.

The thing about shields that always kind of flustered me was minstrels carrying one. Especially when they can still get a block response while the shield is on their back and they are playing their instrument. Small detail, I know.

[Tech6425]

I'll add something about fervour stance tanking that some of the newer players may not know... It was done with a -30% healing penalty and no block parry or evade. Turbine tried their best to dissuade us from fervour tanking but we laughed and did it anyway!

[frost702]

I tanked grand stair so many times as champ back in the day

[Castorix]

And the Dev Diary where shields have been removed :
http://web.archive.org/web/201210091...eloper-diary-?

[Bludborn]

And the Dev Diary where shields have been removed :
http://web.archive.org/web/201210091...eloper-diary-?

Wow, that old site tho. I was just looking at the old 2007 too. My how they have changed

[Macdui]

A lot of ferver champs "tanked" content in the old days. Jolly good show! The minis however would rather have had a proper tank to heal instead. We generated so much heal agro keeping them up it could all go very wrong very quickly.

[RANA01340]

A lot of ferver champs "tanked" content in the old days. Jolly good show! The minis however would rather have had a proper tank to heal instead. We generated so much heal agro keeping them up it could all go very wrong very quickly.

Or we tanked in Glory with a shield, and would become just about as tanky as a guard, minus the oh-#### cooldowns. :P

Between 50 and 65 I tanked every raid boss in the game on my champ. Rising Ire was probably one of the most powerful threat generators in the game, and between having that and Ebbing we could effectively manage threat for both us as well as tanks, if we wanted to. We were THE secondary tank in SoA, and third after wardens in MoM/SoM, given that for a while most of the wardens were pretty terrible.

We were also arguably the best tank for bosses that constantly spammed corruptions, since guards used to have a 10s countdown on sting's corruption removal that would be overridden by sting itself.

[Vodomir]

A lot of ferver champs "tanked" content in the old days. Jolly good show! The minis however would rather have had a proper tank to heal instead. We generated so much heal agro keeping them up it could all go very wrong very quickly.

I've never had any minstrel complain about fervour tanking, even fervour tanked Dark Delving back in the days when the instace used to be challenging and it actually felt easier than doing it with a guardian.

If you ever out-aggro'ed (is that even a word? ^^) a fervour tank, then the Champion probably wasn't doing a good job. I'm pretty confident that I was able to generate way more aggro by just DPS'ing hard than a healer could by pumping out heals. Even if a Champ for some reason was not able to keep up with healing aggro there always was Rising Ire. So if things went south due to the healer getting aggro, the Champ was not only bad at DPSing but also not utilizing all of his skills as he should have.