Beornings - the forgotten class.

[Treadstone87]

Even though it's the newest class in the game, Beornings feel underpowered and unfinished. It's been a year and a half since it was released, and yet the class still feels half-baked. What happened to the people responsible for developing the Beorning? Did they leave the company or merely abandon the class upon release? I realize Turbine doesn't have the budget and staffing it once did, but surely Beornings deserve to have some of their most critical flaws looked at.

The decision to make Beornings' primary stat Might even though they wear Medium Armor is baffling. When Wardens were made available with Mines of Moria, they had Might as their main stat even though they used Medium Armor. Turbine introduced a lot of new Medium Armor with Might on it, even going so far as to add Medium/Might armor to Shadows of Angmar era quests, raids, and dungeons. Still, Wardens felt constrained by the weirdness of being the only Medium Armor class to have Might as their main stat, and so for greater parity between Medium Armor classes, Wardens had their main stat changed to Agility. Once again Turbine did a pretty decent job of going back and re-itemizing Medium/Might armor to give Agility instead. Now, inexplicably, Beornings have been introduced as a Medium Armor class that has Might as their main stat - what the heck? What was the thought process behind this? If Turbine thought this through to any reasonable degree, it doesn't show, especially as Beornings were not given a 'back catalog' of Medium/Might quest and dungeon rewards as Runekeepers and Wardens were - instead, they are sometimes offered 'armor boxes' as a quest reward which can be used to choose between six pieces of generic Medium/Might armor. Of course, all this could have been avoided if Beornings used Agility like every other Medium Armor class, but that would have made too much sense.

Beornings, being skin-changers, are most known for their ability to take the form of a bear. Yet the only role which Beornings can reliably perform well in is Healing. Tanking and DPS, the playstyles which most rely on the bear form, are vastly underpowered and don't seem to be getting any attention. This is not to say that extremely skilled and immaculately-geared players cannot do alright at these roles, but unless tanking and DPSing on this class was designed from the ground up to provide an awful effort-to-results ratio, it might be time to see to it that trying to tank or DPS on a Beorning is a bit less like trying to squeeze blood out of a stone.

Beornings make a great first impression, tearing through low-level content easily and soloing a lot of Shadows of Angmar group content on-level or close to it. High-level Beornings who lament feeling underpowered in late-game group content are often chided by people with low-level Beorning alts who are still in the 'honeymoon' period with the class. "My Level 35 Beorning can solo Garth Agarwen, you must be playing yours wrong." After level 50, Beornings lose their edge. Rohan is an especially trying time for Beornings - Mounted Combat as a Beorning is miserable and quests stop rewarding armor boxes after level 70. Beornings are a decent class if your only goal is to solo Shadows of Angmar content and then stop there, but beyond that point, it's an exercise in frustration. The Beorning is inspired by a powerful people, but plays more like the reverse form of one of those 'incredibly weak at first, but pays off later on' character types from RPGs - like the Deprived in Dark Souls, the Onion Knight in Final Fantasy 3, or Magikarp from Pokemon. Reversed, because those characters can eventually evolve into very powerful versions of themselves, but Beornings devolve. Great for people who want to coast through the early game as a grizzled barbarian and then evolve into a confused honey-cake baker wielding oversized rolling pins at the halfway point.

Please, Turbine, help the Beorning. Take another look at it. Or at least let us know that you're aware of these concerns.

-An underwhelmed Bleh-orning

[The_Warg]

About two months after Beornings' release, I couldn't level any farther. The class did, and still does, feel very unfinished. The DPS and Tanking leave so much to be desired.
Perhaps Beornings are just supposed to be the new Minstrels?

[Joedangod]

Eloquently put, I agree with all of it. It's actually a pretty fun class to play and it's sad that you so rarely get to use it in content.

[LEGENDofALL]

Well I guess people have different opinions on what a class should be and considering I see the Beornings a a swiss army knife that can do it all I'm happy with a lot of what it can do and sure theres some bugs that need worked out but overall I feel its working as intended.

I have zero problem with DPS at level 103, tanking or healing though I don't think a medium armour class should be a tank(warden too) but more of a off tank. Now is the dps that of a champ or RK? no and it shouldn't be but could it be a little better or more polished? I'm sure it could but I don't think its bad at all.

Ive messed around with trait points dipping into other lines and as for now ive found the perfect line for playing with at this time.


P.S. I do agree with the might stat but in regarding to gear as you level you don't find really anything with might on it at medium level unless its for the class itself.

[daedalusAI]

Well I guess people have different opinions on what a class should be and considering I see the Beornings a a swiss army knife that can do it all I'm happy with a lot of what it can do and sure theres some bugs that need worked out but overall I feel its working as intended.

Swiss army knife on paper yeah - but not in beornings current state.
Plenty of abilities/traits not working, even at lvl 70 barely any decent medium armor with might, vit and defensive/offensive stats. Painful to watch that all those quest rewards didn't get an update in ages to suit the "new" class beorning which already is over 1 year and 6 months old. Or to still find medium armor with fate, power and will.
Beorning trait trees are by far THE most dull and pointless trait trees in lotro considering every trait tree in here is pathetic: at lvl 70 I'm already refusing to use my points because there is not a single talent for which I would be going like "damn, can't wait till I get that". Every talent feels just like copy & paste and to only give a slight buff to your already existing abilities - and the few you unlock are mediocre at best. Nature's bond anyone?

In red you spam trash for free executes while barely having a little aoe with every 3rd trash. Red dps offers nothing for a group aside from sacrifice.
In blue you tank without the ability to block or to carry a shield while doing ok damage for beeing a tank - did someone mention warden/tank with their ridiculous damage and beeing able to solo group/raid content? Blue tank offers nothing for a group aside from sacrifice.
In yellow you are the god of aoe healing with 0 aoe healing spells outside bear form, having to constantly stance dance on a 5sec cd to generate wrath while staying in range so that your pathetic mark of grimbeorn doesnt fall off your tank. Having 0 oh-s hit healing buttons really is amazing. Yellow offers sacrifice, heals and piercing roar for a group - which considering what rk and minis bring to the table is just pathetic.

[LEGENDofALL]

Swiss army knife on paper yeah - but not in beornings current state.
Plenty of abilities/traits not working, even at lvl 70 barely any decent medium armor with might, vit and defensive/offensive stats. Painful to watch that all those quest rewards didn't get an update in ages to suit the "new" class beorning which already is over 1 year and 6 months old. Or to still find medium armor with fate, power and will.
Beorning trait trees are by far THE most dull and pointless trait trees in lotro considering every trait tree in here is pathetic: at lvl 70 I'm already refusing to use my points because there is not a single talent for which I would be going like "damn, can't wait till I get that". Every talent feels just like copy & paste and to only give a slight buff to your already existing abilities - and the few you unlock are mediocre at best. Nature's bond anyone?

In red you spam trash for free executes while barely having a little aoe with every 3rd trash. Red dps offers nothing for a group aside from sacrifice.
In blue you tank without the ability to block or to carry a shield while doing ok damage for beeing a tank - did someone mention warden/tank with their ridiculous damage and beeing able to solo group/raid content? Blue tank offers nothing for a group aside from sacrifice.
In yellow you are the god of aoe healing with 0 aoe healing spells outside bear form, having to constantly stance dance on a 5sec cd to generate wrath while staying in range so that your pathetic mark of grimbeorn doesnt fall off your tank. Having 0 oh-s hit healing buttons really is amazing. Yellow offers sacrifice, heals and piercing roar for a group - which considering what rk and minis bring to the table is just pathetic.

Sounds like you need to delete if youre unhappy , because like I said at level 103 I have no problem doing what I want to do and as for zero to 103 it was one of the easiest classes to level pull large mobs and dpsing them down.

The armour is the only issue I had but since I was leveling so fast it never really bothered me but it should get fixed

[daedalusAI]

Sounds like you need to delete if youre unhappy...

Indeed, because pointing out all those common flaws and issues with the class clearly shows that I don't care at all and by deleting my beorning all the issues are magically fixed within in the realms of "my little turbine - fixing is magic".
What bulls hit attidute is that.
Or by using your "logic": if youre unhappy with my comment on all the issues with beorning you should just delete your forum account.

[LEGENDofALL]

Indeed, because pointing out all those common flaws and issues with the class clearly shows that I don't care at all and by deleting my beorning all the issues are magically fixed within in the realms of "my little turbine - fixing is magic".
What bulls hit attidute is that.
Or by using your "logic": if youre unhappy with my comment on all the issues with beorning you should just delete your forum account.

well since you want to get nasty I'll point out what you think is broken really isn't and maybe just maybe you should learn to play the class.

The class has some issues but overall its OP and to denying would be lying to ones self.


Small Issues

1. switching to bear form to slow
2. Armour lacking might while leveling
3. FR to slow of a skill
4. Healing aoe in pvp broken
5 lacking addition dps skills but not the end of the world
6. needs slightly tanking improvement


Classes have issues, ALL CLASSES not just the Beornings

[Joedangod]

The class has some issues but overall its OP and to denying would be lying to ones self.

Bear is definitely not OP; it's roughly average. Of course, the issue here being the fact that everything else is OP so Beornings seem to be completely lacking compared to them. I will continue to stand by saying that redline is almost perfectly set, it does perfectly tolerable DPS; better than some, worse than others but overall right in the middle. Perhaps it could use a bit more time in bear form but honestly doesn't need much beyond that. As for yellow; yellow is fine, just needs to throw some kind of panic skill in place of natures bond and fix the rez (preferably by making it a separate skill). The bear lives far longer than any RK could healing and is almost on par with minstrel survivability which again, seems fair to me. Finally we have blue, this is the line with the issues. The 20% morale deficit on switching to bear form is jarring and makes me wonder why not just turn it into a passive boost regardless of form. The down but not out skill is questionable as it makes you want to switch to man form when your health gets low which is a pretty terrible idea. Finally there is the elephant in the room: BPE, or rather the B part of that. The changes that came this update made BPE vital in physical encounters, Turbine was aware of this and they adjusted Champ's accordingly. Now they need to adjust bears, give them 2h block, give them light shields or even give them heavy shields (we'd be in danger of being happy with that one) and the bear can bounce up from being unviable to being perfectly average.

I like perfectly average, it's a good place to be.

[Treadstone87]

well since you want to get nasty I'll point out what you think is broken really isn't and maybe just maybe you should learn to play the class.

The class has some issues but overall its OP and to denying would be lying to ones self.


Small Issues

1. switching to bear form to slow
2. Armour lacking might while leveling
3. FR to slow of a skill
4. Healing aoe in pvp broken
5 lacking addition dps skills but not the end of the world
6. needs slightly tanking improvement


Classes have issues, ALL CLASSES not just the Beornings

Sounds like we're in agreement!

Beornings need better itemization, and their tank and DPS specs need improvement.

You might be perfectly happy with your beorning, but I don't see a lot of people like you. Mostly I just see a lot of unhappy people who really like the beorning concept and are passionate about speaking out about making it a better class and people who abandoned their beorning. Happy beornings are pretty rare.

[LEGENDofALL]

Bear is definitely not OP; it's roughly average. Of course, the issue here being the fact that everything else is OP so Beornings seem to be completely lacking compared to them. I will continue to stand by saying that redline is almost perfectly set, it does perfectly tolerable DPS; better than some, worse than others but overall right in the middle. Perhaps it could use a bit more time in bear form but honestly doesn't need much beyond that. As for yellow; yellow is fine, just needs to throw some kind of panic skill in place of natures bond and fix the rez (preferably by making it a separate skill). The bear lives far longer than any RK could healing and is almost on par with minstrel survivability which again, seems fair to me. Finally we have blue, this is the line with the issues. The 20% morale deficit on switching to bear form is jarring and makes me wonder why not just turn it into a passive boost regardless of form. The down but not out skill is questionable as it makes you want to switch to man form when your health gets low which is a pretty terrible idea. Finally there is the elephant in the room: BPE, or rather the B part of that. The changes that came this update made BPE vital in physical encounters, Turbine was aware of this and they adjusted Champ's accordingly. Now they need to adjust bears, give them 2h block, give them light shields or even give them heavy shields (we'd be in danger of being happy with that one) and the bear can bounce up from being unviable to being perfectly average.

I like perfectly average, it's a good place to be.

Well you can consider it average and I will continue to consider it OP maybe not warden OP but OP

[LEGENDofALL]

Sounds like we're in agreement!

Beornings need better itemization, and their tank and DPS specs need improvement.

You might be perfectly happy with your beorning, but I don't see a lot of people like you. Mostly I just see a lot of unhappy people who really like the beorning concept and are passionate about speaking out about making it a better class and people who abandoned their beorning. Happy beornings are pretty rare.

every class needs a little love here and there but I don't see a class id consider broken(as in broken in a bad way) I see a class that needs some polishing is all.

its a cool class, not my favorite(Lm is) but I like it

[Happychappy]

every class needs a little love here and there but I don't see a class id consider broken(as in broken in a bad way) I see a class that needs some polishing is all.

its a cool class, not my favorite(Lm is) but I like it

First off I would like to say very well put treadstone87.

Broken is a strong word, not sure where that's from in OPs thread. Lacking may be a better word.

There is definitely a base to work with, but they could be so much better and fill roles better. Beorn was not a healer, he was a huge rampaging bear tearing through ranks of enemies and shrugging off blows. A fat Hobbit with a little pink flute in his hand can cause as much devastation, if not more, than a rampaging bear lol.

Get real! Absolute stupidity!!

[Treadstone87]

Yeah, just want to reiterate that I don't feel at all like Beornings are 'broken'. In fact, I don't think anyone in this thread has used that word besides the person who came in to get angry at us for allegedly calling Beornings broken. Beornings are functional, they just need a lot of help.

My purpose in making this thread was to hopefully draw a little extra attention to the Beorning. The class was pushed out the door lacking proper itemization, and I feel like it'd be a much more well-rounded and popular class if the realities of how it performs were more in line with the 'class fantasy' or 'lore concept' or whatever you'd like to call it.

I know that when I first found out the stoic, bestial Beornings - able to shift into the form of a savage bear to protect Middle-earth - would be playable in LotRO, I didn't pause and think to myself "Hmm, seems like a class that should make for alright healers and middle-of-the-road tanks and damage dealers. I can't wait to buy it.

That sort of character archetype - good healer, minimally functional at everything else - would have seemed better suited to something like a Healer or Herb-Master class, like Ioreth and those which oversaw the Houses of Healing in Minas Tirith. Not a race of reclusive shapeshifters that can assume the form of a hulking bear.

[LEGENDofALL]

Yeah, just want to reiterate that I don't feel at all like Beornings are 'broken'. In fact, I don't think anyone in this thread has used that word besides the person who came in to get angry at us for allegedly calling Beornings broken. Beornings are functional, they just need a lot of help.

My purpose in making this thread was to hopefully draw a little extra attention to the Beorning. The class was pushed out the door lacking proper itemization, and I feel like it'd be a much more well-rounded and popular class if the realities of how it performs were more in line with the 'class fantasy' or 'lore concept' or whatever you'd like to call it.

I know that when I first found out the stoic, bestial Beornings - able to shift into the form of a savage bear to protect Middle-earth - would be playable in LotRO, I didn't pause and think to myself "Hmm, seems like a class that should make for alright healers and middle-of-the-road tanks and damage dealers. I can't wait to buy it.

That sort of character archetype - good healer, minimally functional at everything else - would have seemed better suited to something like a Healer or Herb-Master class, like Ioreth and those which oversaw the Houses of Healing in Minas Tirith. Not a race of reclusive shapeshifters that can assume the form of a hulking bear.

This game has gotten away from making each class for its purpose exampled Guardian(tank)LM(CC)Minny(heal ing)Burg(CC,dps) etc...... as for needing a lot of help I don't think so, I think they needs some polishing like all classes but far from needing a lot of help.


Forget about the books and the lore because turbine doesn't exactly follow in suit with it to well!!

Don't get me wrong I think theres thing that can improve on the bear but its not make it or break it for the class

[Happychappy]

This game has gotten away from making each class for its purpose exampled Guardian(tank)LM(CC)Minny(heal ing)Burg(CC,dps) etc...... as for needing a lot of help I don't think so, I think they needs some polishing like all classes but far from needing a lot of help.


Forget about the books and the lore because turbine doesn't exactly follow in suit with it to well!!

Don't get me wrong I think theres thing that can improve on the bear but its not make it or break it for the class

I don't think we can forget it. Would you be happy if they released the hunter that was based on Legolas to be a healer and not a very good archer? Beorn was not known for his healing skills, he was known for being able to turn into a huge bear that caused massive devastation in battle.

It would not be hard to send the tank and dps line some love. Is it too much to ask lol?

[Oelle]

I don't think we can forget it. Would you be happy if they released the hunter that was based on Legolas to be a healer and not a very good archer? Beorn was not known for his healing skills, he was known for being able to turn into a huge bear that caused massive devastation in battle.

It would not be hard to send the tank and dps line some love. Is it too much to ask lol?

even if you all are right and blue and red line should get some buffs...
we beornings are not beorn. we are just descendants two generations later. we might be less strong than beorn was and we might have another focus.
like if you see, that the nature around you dies, you focus more on regeneration than on combat. especially, if you know, that your combat abilities are good enough. the point is: you can be the best fighter, if you have to kill thousands of enemies, one of those will wound you and without healing, you might die.
if, on the other hand, you are a good healer and have nice combat qualities, you can kill all those enemies one after the other. if they cannot kill you, you can kill them all. even if it might take longer.

[Happychappy]

even if you all are right and blue and red line should get some buffs...
we beornings are not beorn. we are just descendants two generations later. we might be less strong than beorn was and we might have another focus.
like if you see, that the nature around you dies, you focus more on regeneration than on combat. especially, if you know, that your combat abilities are good enough. the point is: you can be the best fighter, if you have to kill thousands of enemies, one of those will wound you and without healing, you might die.
if, on the other hand, you are a good healer and have nice combat qualities, you can kill all those enemies one after the other. if they cannot kill you, you can kill them all. even if it might take longer.

A hunter is not Legolas either. Perhaps they should spend time gathering berries and catching squirrels.
A Loremaster is not one of the Istari either. Perhaps he should stay at home reading books and tending to his Garden andmaking potions.

Beornngs are based on Beorn I would say. Would be a new twist to turn them into tree hugging hippies though .

"I haven't come to fight, I have come to mend your wounds". " but couldn't you turn into a huge bear, might be very handy". " we don't do that anymore, we have seen the light and found Jesus"

[LEGENDofALL]

I don't think we can forget it. Would you be happy if they released the hunter that was based on Legolas to be a healer and not a very good archer? Beorn was not known for his healing skills, he was known for being able to turn into a huge bear that caused massive devastation in battle.

It would not be hard to send the tank and dps line some love. Is it too much to ask lol?

First of they have changed the hunter a lot over the years from a top 1 or 2 dps class to below that now but yes I hear what you're saying and you have to remember when this game started they had different people working on this game and since they left it went down hill since.

I agree with the some love comment on dps and tanking but not much is needed and I think the majority of the love should go to bear form and not human form.

my biggest issues(which isn't a must but would like) are..

1. need a few more dps skills
2. Changing to bear form animation can be quicker
3. man form aoe heal(wishful thinking lol)
4. Fix AOE heal while pvping(my personal fix)
5. wrath build up quicker and maybe skill cost slightly decrease.


With all my wants I can live with it if none of them are fix though.

[LEGENDofALL]

A hunter is not Legolas either. Perhaps they should spend time gathering berries and catching squirrels.
A Loremaster is not one of the Istari either. Perhaps he should stay at home reading books and tending to his Garden andmaking potions.

Beornngs are based on Beorn I would say. Would be a new twist to turn them into tree hugging hippies though .

"I haven't come to fight, I have come to mend your wounds". " but couldn't you turn into a huge bear, might be very handy". " we don't do that anymore, we have seen the light and found Jesus"

The Loremaster isn't the Loremaster of old since they have changed the focus of pretty much all classes to dps with the tree coming into play. When I started my LM 8 years ago it had a purpose and its purpose wasn't dps but buffing, debuffing and some added dps.

they have nerfed or reduced a lot of the CC skills of the LM for whatever reason I do not know and increase their ability as a healer and burst aoe dps machine.


The game is changing to what these developers feel to do and not what is right if they're following the lore(which they're not)

[Happychappy]

The Loremaster isn't the Loremaster of old since they have changed the focus of pretty much all classes to dps with the tree coming into play. When I started my LM 8 years ago it had a purpose and its purpose wasn't dps but buffing, debuffing and some added dps.

they have nerfed or reduced a lot of the CC skills of the LM for whatever reason I do not know and increase their ability as a healer and burst aoe dps machine.


The game is changing to what these developers feel to do and not what is right if they're following the lore(which they're not)

Having been a lifetimer for over 9 years I have seen a lot of changes. Crowd control was changed and the classes were given more damage. But it still fits for a Loremaster. Usually magic users were more subtle in the LotR but now the fight is on they are using more powerful magic? Gandalf nukes the Balrog in the film, he also shows he has some healing skills. They may state that the class is based on Elrond but it was based on the Istari, if it was based on Elrond then they would be the best healers in the game. If Wardens were based on Haldir, why didn't they just send him to Mount Doom with the ring? he could've soloed the lot of them and dropped the ring in no problem lol.

A Beorning in its current state does not really fit. They were not know for being healers, especially in bear form, they were known for turning into a ferocious huge bear intent on killing Orcs. Dps and tanking should be top roles with healing as a side line if they must have healing.

[LEGENDofALL]

Having been a lifetimer for over 9 years I have seen a lot of changes. Crowd control was changed and the classes were given more damage. But it still fits for a Loremaster. Usually magic users were more subtle in the LotR but now the fight is on they are using more powerful magic? Gandalf nukes the Balrog in the film, he also shows he has some healing skills. They may state that the class is based on Elrond but it was based on the Istari, if it was based on Elrond then they would be the best healers in the game. If Wardens were based on Haldir, why didn't they just send him to Mount Doom with the ring? he could've soloed the lot of them and dropped the ring in no problem lol.

A Beorning in its current state does not really fit. They were not know for being healers, especially in bear form, they were known for turning into a ferocious huge bear intent on killing Orcs. Dps and tanking should be top roles with healing as a side line if they must have healing.

Yeah but they changed the use of the LM in the game and while I'm happy about more dps , the majority of raids/groups now really don't need a LM anymore. I agree the bear should have slightly more dps and tanking(more of tanking in my opinion)abilitys

[daedalusAI]

well since you want to get nasty I'll point out what you think is broken really isn't and maybe just maybe you should learn to play the class.

With that comment about "learn to play" you just disqualified yourself on beeing taken serious in this debate about the current state of beorning.

Classes have issues, ALL CLASSES not just the Beornings

How can YOU even say something like that if by your own words beorning is "just fine" and "op" and only needs a few more armor items and a quicker transformation indcution?

[daedalusAI]

A Beorning in its current state does not really fit. They were not know for being healers, especially in bear form, they were known for turning into a ferocious huge bear intent on killing Orcs. Dps and tanking should be top roles with healing as a side line if they must have healing.

But beorning can kill orcs: afk-spam trash till something drops. Though you need the mindset of a 5 year old to find that challenging and enjoyable.

[Joedangod]

A Beorning in its current state does not really fit. They were not know for being healers, especially in bear form, they were known for turning into a ferocious huge bear intent on killing Orcs. Dps and tanking should be top roles with healing as a side line if they must have healing.

The problem is that this is the what the class is now. If Turbine adjusted it to be a DPS/Tank it would require a large overhaul which we're not going to get, ever.