Beorning: Small proposal thread

[Joedangod]

Edited to include a gear section, threw in a few of your ideas for potential replacement set bonuses. I'll try think of some myself. :P

Skipped out on including the physical damage buff since the Pelennor set already has that, also didn't think hearten/composure pulses would work; as you said, probably too OP.

[Morphails]

I haven't read all reactions, so apologies if some of thse have already been mentioned by others.

Some details on mentioned bugs:

• Like mentioned in the original post, Relentless maul cancels when wrath is getting low. This happens when passing the 20 wrath threshold.
• "In the face of" does not reliably work, this seems to be related to the TARGET being in combat. If the rez bugs while channeling instead of "Invalid target" you'll see the message "Target must not be in combat". This also happens when the target is selecting themself while attemting to rez a bugged target.

Unnoted bugs:

• Entering bear form only removes disarm if the disarming effect is the classic, pottable disarm. Any other effect, such as the unpottable disarm from Easterling sorcerors in Dme of Stars or the disarming wound from Tunkild in Black Serpent, is ignored. This means such effects still completely disable pretty much every skill, including bear form skills.

Suggestions:

• Blue line
  
  • Access to block. There's pretty much no way around this one.
  • Either change the current "upgrading" trait of recuperate to have no downside, or change it to +1 pulse per trait point.
  • Have the "Thunderous roar" trait give an extra skill, instead of replacing the single target taunt.
  • Change skills that give +x% maximum morale (bear form and ferocious roar) to also restore the newly added morale.
  • A second "panic button" skill. Other tanks either have more than one (Captains: Shield of the Dunedain, Last Stand, Guards: Juggernaut, Pledge, Warrior's heart), or have it on a cooldown so short it's not really a panic button anymore (Wardens: DC).
  • A small (5-10%) maximum morale bonus when speccing in blue line, available in either form.
• Yellow line
  
  • Fix the in combat rez. Would be nice to have a separate skill for in combat and out of combat rez, which would eliminate the need to change spec every time you want to rez out of combat.
  • Nature's bond is currently beyond useless in 99% of all situations. Having it "copy" heals to the target instead of transfering them would make it useful. The % would probably have to be lowered in order to keep it balanced though.
• Red line
  
  • Red line is all about huge crits, perhaps a buff to critical magnitude?
  • Higher proc chance on Moment of opportunity, this would significantly increase relevance in single target DPS scenario's.
• General
  
  • Remove the cast time from capstone skills (Thickened hide, Call to wild and Nature's bond).

[Joedangod]

Updated the relevant sections with your ideas, we're getting a pretty nice long list of potential improvements now. Might have to start throwing them into categories before it gets messy.

Thanks for adding some detail to the bugs list as well.

[Morphails]

Ran into this one today: General Error 0x100001DE when trying to use Thunderous roar. Somehow it fixed itself by swapping to a different trait line and then swapping back.
Link to Screenshot

[Joedangod]

Had a bug similar to that before, can't remember what skilled caused it though (don't think it was thunderous roar). Still jealous of that morale pool though, gimme your hilt.

[daedalusAI]

Don't worry folks: the only real issue with 18.1 is the problem with wardrobe and dyes. Everything else doesn't matter.

[Joedangod]

Spent an unhealthy amount of the last couple of weeks running PUG's on bear. We have a huge problem with our image, virtually nobody has any idea what a Beornings role in end-game instances is. One group was struggling for a healer and the leader turned round and asked the LM if they thought they could heal it instead of me (was in DPS gear at the time). Whilst there probably isn't a decent way of making Beornings look like healers a shield would certainly go a long way in making people click that we are tanks.

[daedalusAI]

Spent an unhealthy amount of the last couple of weeks running PUG's on bear. We have a huge problem with our image, virtually nobody has any idea what a Beornings role in end-game instances is. One group was struggling for a healer and the leader turned round and asked the LM if they thought they could heal it instead of me (was in DPS gear at the time). Whilst there probably isn't a decent way of making Beornings look like healers a shield would certainly go a long way in making people click that we are tanks.

Since beorning is at the bottom in every role there is no need to enlighten people what beorning is supposed to do.

[Joedangod]

Beornings are perfectly solid in the hands of a good player and work in their roles; the drawback being that they just don't get anywhere near what the good player pulls on a different class. This doesn't mean that they don't have their roles and it sucks that perfectly competent players get ignored simply due to others not understanding. When I am on my minstrel I am as willing to take a bear tank as I am to take a warden/guard/captain, on my captain tank I am as willing to take a bear healer as a minstrel or RK. The groups do not truly suffer from this, it just rarely happens that you find a bear tank/healer and so people are unwilling to give them a shot.

[LEGENDofALL]

Beornings are perfectly solid in the hands of a good player and work in their roles; the drawback being that they just don't get anywhere near what the good player pulls on a different class. This doesn't mean that they don't have their roles and it sucks that perfectly competent players get ignored simply due to others not understanding. When I am on my minstrel I am as willing to take a bear tank as I am to take a warden/guard/captain, on my captain tank I am as willing to take a bear healer as a minstrel or RK. The groups do not truly suffer from this, it just rarely happens that you find a bear tank/healer and so people are unwilling to give them a shot.

I've also taken my Bear over my main to tank and to heal some t2's and while as a tank they're not guardian/warden(OP joke of a class) I managed pretty damn well without perfect gear/jewelry(still working on it).

Also the same results with healing , I'm no minny but I did perfectly fine all things considered and my AOE healing is better then that(my Opinion)of a RK.


Bottom line not number 1 at anything but can do everything pretty darn well(healing,dps,tanking) of course its my opinion

[Joedangod]

One thing I would like is for the capstone things like "Nature's Bond" to have their cast time removed, for a panic skill it takes way too long to use and completely halts heals for far too long.

[daedalusAI]

One thing I would like is for the capstone things like "Nature's Bond" to have their cast time removed, for a panic skill it takes way too long to use and completely halts heals for far too long.

Nature's bond is a panic heal? What?

[Joedangod]

Nature's bond is a panic heal? What?

In it's current form? No. If it could insta-cast then use it would work as a long range panic heal to use when the tank is taking major damage or is really far away. I'm assuming that it is supposed to be a panic heal, doesn't really have much else it could do unless the sole reason for it existing is to puff up single target HPS parses.

[daedalusAI]

In it's current form? No. If it could insta-cast then use it would work as a long range panic heal to use when the tank is taking major damage or is really far away. I'm assuming that it is supposed to be a panic heal, doesn't really have much else it could do unless the sole reason for it existing is to puff up single target HPS parses.

You can't even consider that it's supposed to be a panic button: since it only works off the healing you recive means that you as the solo heal can only provide healing for nature's bond with bellowing roar.

[Joedangod]

I use it as a panic button when the tank suddenly needs heals in SS final boss during the adds phase. Rather than running all the way back to the tank I just toggle bond and launch some heals at myself. In other situations I like to toggle it on whilst I'm using recuperate for some HoTs on the tank. Of course the fact that it basically adds another 10k heal on the tank every time I use bellow is also nice.

[Morphails]

Did some testing on the effective damage reduction of Slam and Piercing Roar. Tests were done in Turtle (Filikul) on his "Mighty Melee Attack", because there is no RNG involved in the base damage of this skill. Results are as follows:

Skill	Debuff on tooltip	Damage taken	Difference
No debuffs	-	1344	-
Slam	10%	1325	1.4238%
Piercing Roar	20%	1306	2.8679%
	40%	1267	5.8981%

EDIT: Apparently critical multipliers aren't the same for Beornings as they are for other classes either. Other classes seem to have a base multiplier of 1.5 (meaning a critical hit will be 150% higher than a normal hit) for both critical hits and critical heals. Beornings get a base multiplier of 1. It seems to me that simply fixing this would solve a lot of the problems the DPS Beorning is currently facing. For healing it's not really as relevant because it doesn't fix the 6 seconds gap in between AoE heals.

[juiceyhammo]

I went ahead and made a new thread for beorning feedback on the Bullroarer forum, as I think a lot of us that play them can admit they are still very buggy and lagging behind other classes somewhat. Feel free to check it out, add comments/suggestions/corrections. Cheers.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...rning-feedback

[Pavlin]

IMHO Beos should be redone completely. Something like this:

Remove tanking traits and completely rework blue line, make blue line a supportish-healing-sacrifice one.

So in this case every class will have a role in a group. And all TOP groups (melee, ranged dps) should be similar in DPS numbers so that perfect HNT and perfect BEO could pull the same numbers in DPS. Now 6/10 classes are just useless for PvE. And ofc melee dps should be about 5-10% higher than ranged one cause you have a lot of anti-melee mechanics only and melee is harder to play a lot you know.

I didnt buy the class to play dd or healer. I bought it because i want to play tank!!! You cant sell smth to players and then say you compleatly redone it because it sucks.... There is a ways to fix it without change main roles. We have enough dd and cc`ers in game so one more viable tank wont hurt. And no matter do they buff beo as dps, will be hard to find spot as dd/ because we know RK is the best choise and now they buff hunters/ which is needed/ and if gpr want mele dps, there are alot of unreplacable champs and wardens. (i wont even coment your POINTLESS proposal to reduce warden dps /he cant hold agro at all if is dps is reduced WITH/not even to/ 70%) Warden is ok as it is.
Beo need block and posibility to use heavy shields. Or make his sellf healt to scale with his max HP/ like in red tree/. This will make it viable as pve tank and in the same time wont make him too op in pvmp. And i speak only about hide, dont care claw or roar.

[Finrarion]

These suggestions are all really good. I would like to add one more thing: have Slash and Claw Swipe bleeds tier down instead of just expiring. This is because these skills are pretty important but are only usable in one form, so they tend to just expire when we switch forms. Also, when Slam debuff is fixed, it would be nice to increase its duration.