Raid Progression - Throne of the Dread Terror

[marmi]

I agree the choice is obvious but can you just stop quarrel about it?
This thread is about raid completion isn't it? Not about getting first original challenger title first in world or server. I'd say it's a nice addition and can be considered to be added in the tabel or making another thread for it.
Posts should consist of screenshots from kins completing t2/t2c wings as it was before.
IMO both Portal and MI6 kins are best raid kins and the difference by 1 day for raid completion is irrelevant. We all can see that after a week not any other kin was able to finish all wings t2c. However every kin which will be able to finish all t2c wings before they nerf significantly something or buff players will be awesome.
This raid is really hard imho seeing like most PUGs or non raiding kins fail miserably at first boss t1...
BTW. may I ask how long it takes to do all wings t2c in one session? I guess it must be several hours...

[Phindecano]

I'm not a member of any of those two kinships, but, really, let's see how it works in WoW raiding community (that still get much more raids than Lotro and much more raiding kins).

http://www.wowprogress.com/

It's all about killing all the bosses in mythic first, not about completing every additional deed presented in the raid. Fully agree with Siddharta on this.

[Chodelet]

can you just stop quarrel about it?

Is it really surprising that a vanity thread has broken out into quarrels? >_<

[Himner]

Are you seriously? Haha! Obviously, Portal - kin #1 in this race. Finish something with which faced the first time - this is an achievement. But to finish what was already complete much easier, even for one session.
There are two options from which to choose only one.
1. Portal has cleared full raid first in the world.
2. MI6 completed in one session what has been already done (repeated the previously completed challenges).
IMHO, the choice is obvious.

I fail to see how anyones kill is any easier as long as its done before any tactics are given out, saying that is just taking away the cred from all kins competing in the raid.

[Khaurin]

Kinship: Ascension
Server: Arkenstone

Rakothas T2C
Set-Akaji, Ku-Nerpag, and Arpong Dokh T2C
Vadokhar T2C
The Unbroken One T2
High Sorceror of Harad and Woe of Khand T2C

Apologies for the late post; wanted to ensure we had a video of our Mumakil victory before claiming anything else. Should have a video link shortly.

Apparently I don't have the ability to post attachments, so here's a link to the screenshots.

http://imgur.com/a/yiY2z

[Acadios]

GZ |MI6| - Evernight but Portal#1

and all other raiding kins and and specially pugs !

Really sad how this thread degenerates..

Rakothas T2C: Brothers of Metal
Mumaks T2C: The Mellowship
Vadokhar T2C: The Mellowship
Unbroken One T2C: Portal
Nazguls T2C: Portal
Gohmog T2C: Portal
How can kinship that has 0 World 1st kills be the best?

Okay,Okay.. so that no one disputes , we take the honor for the best kin of the world :P *irony off*

[HebnesO]

If it indeed was a race...

[TinaSlode]

Idk why MI6 wants to steal 1st world competition from Portal when they were 1st no matter how they did it. They first finished all 6 bosses on T2C while MI6 was still on 5/6 and next day they (MI6) complited not deed for single clear; they completed last boss which they were missing and became 2nd kinship to complete all 6 bosses on T2C. Idk why and when they got idea that they will try to steal 1st world clear by doing all bosses at once and then saying they did 1st world T2C lol you guys got first deed done and got unique title but thats it ,you are still 2nd in cleaning raid on T2C ,its huge success too soo should enjoy being 1st on EU servers and 2nd on all servers...let portal take their well deserved title to be 1st kinship who cleared all 6 bosses and completed raid on T2C because they were 1st.....after you menaged to complete all 6 bosses on T2C you are able to do full clear anyways in single take just its matter of time ....
Gratz Portal on being 1st aswell to MI6 on title and 2nd place and gl to everyone else who still didnt clear all 6 bosses

[Vodomir]

Quite simply, only one kin in the world has completed every T2CM deed, they are #1

And does that last deed you achieved actually mean anything special, besides completing things (that have already been completed before) in one go? Not really - I mean, did you actually kill anything first? To get things straight, all you did show is that you were able to assemble your raid group prior to other groups that got you beat on every single boss (just to re-iterare that you didn't achieve any actual world first kill on any of the bosses). Each and every boss has been killed by Portal before you and yet you claim to be #1, based on what? Portal already cleared all of the Raid on T2C before your group did, just not in one single session. Is clearing the raid in one go actually a worthwhile and outstanding achievement that sets you apart from the rest of the pack, especially for groups that already cleared all of the raid? Are bosses any harder, just because you do it in one session? No. So any of the groups that cleared all of the raid will obviously be able to clear in one session, it's just a matter of finding the time to assemble the raid - that an achievement that makes a group #1 in the world in your eyes? Just apply common sense. Yes, you did complete that deed first - congrats for that. Still doesn't make you #1 on the list or the first group to finish the raid (it's been finished before ... not finishing in one session doesn't equal not finishing at all).

[Vodomir]

I fail to see how anyones kill is any easier as long as its done before any tactics are given out, saying that is just taking away the cred from all kins competing in the raid.

Given that you (and others in this competition) already cleared all of the bosses before your "Original Challenger" completion, I guess it's safe to assume you already knew all of the tactis prior to going for that title. Or do you really insist on telling us that killing a boss the second (or third, fourth etc.) time is just as challenging as figuring out all of the mechanics for the first time?

[legablaze123]

Quite simply this is how it goes;


Portal were the "First" kinship to have every single challenge completed. Congratulations to them, they are No.1 in this regards, world first for having every single challenge completed.

MI6 were the "First" kinship to acquire the Original Challenger of Gothmog title. Congratulations to them, they are No.1 in this regards, world first for completing this deed and having this title.


I fail to see why this is causing so much argument and disparity? Over who is the best kin? Does it matter? You are both as equally as good as eachother because you have both cleared the raid, regardless of whether or not who did it first - that is down to individual factors which don't prove anything.

You have both cleared the raid and acquired a World First in some way, be happy and stop destroying the Progression thread.

[Mandura]

Just wanted to chime in and say congrats to all the kins that have beaten it so far, be it a full clear or not. It's more than 95% of the rest of the playerbase can say

I don't really understand why the several pages of arguing about who is #1 was necessary though. If MI6 thinks being able to assemble a raid faster than Portal is such a great achievement, let them... We can all form our own opinion on the matter.

[Trampin]

The whole argument of who was 'no.1' was a byproduct of the original complaint. Which was;

I think my friend what you've failed to grasp is that all throughout this new raid, from the killing of the first boss to the kill of the last boss, |MI6| have been very supportive of other kins who have beaten us or achieved a new kill. It feels a little bit sad that when |MI6| are the first to do something, other kins provide excuses and salt towards us rather than congratulate us in the manner we've congratulated them

Kinship: Ascension
Server: Arkenstone

Rakothas T2C
Set-Akaji, Ku-Nerpag, and Arpong Dokh T2C
Vadokhar T2C
The Unbroken One T2
High Sorceror of Harad and Woe of Khand T2C

Lets get back on track. GG Chaps.

[Wulfdur]

Hahaha now that was interesting . People are here getting confusing let me clear that up.

I'm not biased on any kin here and congratulate both of them ofc thats some achievement, but i'll comment here how game gives someone the title of being "first" on something, looks everybody forgot that.

Special original challenger title goes to the people that done the raid "first" in a server in "one session". So game decides something first not only the bosses done on T2c but also if completed in "one session" since its a little bit more challenging (Don't really think it isn't, why would the game imply the one session part then?) . They don't care if you complete the bosses seperately. Why in this thread would be different then the official thing in game then? Here we also have to call someone server or world first if they complete it in one session also, like game does.

We are apparently calling Portal in this thread as a world first whereas if MI6 and Portal would have been in the same server, MI6 would have been the server first (hence world first among all servers), and Portal wouldn't be able to get the special "first" title. So the thread would have been wrong calling Portal the "first".

So officially MI6 is the server first and non-officially (there is no title for it so..) world first.

[Himner]

This thread sure got alot of action all considering we only wanted to post that we got the title first and nothing else really, was good fun reading and adding fuel to the fire so take care and good luck in raid

[Vodomir]

... but also if completed in "one session" since its a little bit more challenging (Don't really think it isn't, why would the game imply the one session part then?)

What exactly makes this more "challenging" apart from the obvious time constraints? (and having more time at hands is not actually an achievement in my books, especially not an in-game achievement since making room for that time happens in RL and not in the game) All you have to do is to repeat kills on bosses you already killed before (so strategy is already known and your group has already shown that it can actually execute this strategy). Killing a boss the second time around is almost always easier than the first time (unless an encounter is predominantly based on chance), so how can this even be considered to be in the realm of "more challenging"?

[Trampin]

What exactly makes this more "challenging" apart from the obvious time constraints? (and having more time at hands is not actually an achievement in my books, especially not an in-game achievement since making room for that time happens in RL and not in the game) All you have to do is to repeat kills on bosses you already killed before (so strategy is already known and your group has already shown that it can actually execute this strategy). Killing a boss the second time around is almost always easier than the first time (unless an encounter is predominantly based on chance), so how can this even be considered to be in the realm of "more challenging"?

How many of the 6 have you killed T2CM pal? It's more challenging because the previous 6 were killed one at a time and you don't know how many hours/days were put into killing them. It's quite possible kins who have killed them once have to spend hours on end killing them again because they're hard fights. You don't know what happens behind closed doors. In my opinion, being able to kill all 6 in quick succession shows a level of skill above that of killing one per week/raiding four hours a night. Just because you've done it or as you've put 'know the strategy' doesn't mean you walk in and kill it first time, every time. Edit* To add to my point, considering only two kins have completed 6/6 T2CM...how easy can it be?

[Himner]

Quite simply this is how it goes;


Portal were the "First" kinship to have every single challenge completed. Congratulations to them, they are No.1 in this regards, world first for having every single challenge completed.

MI6 were the "First" kinship to acquire the Original Challenger of Gothmog title. Congratulations to them, they are No.1 in this regards, world first for completing this deed and having this title.


I fail to see why this is causing so much argument and disparity? Over who is the best kin? Does it matter? You are both as equally as good as eachother because you have both cleared the raid, regardless of whether or not who did it first - that is down to individual factors which don't prove anything.

You have both cleared the raid and acquired a World First in some way, be happy and stop destroying the Progression thread.

Atleast this person understands whats going on compared to all others whom seem to be abit mislead thinking we want to claim something we have no claim to ^^
We just wanted to claim first "Original" as we earned and thats end of story

[Zelol]

Gr8est b8 m8 i've r8ed for quite a while.

Can't believe so many kids have taken it and haven't realised how hard they are being trolled.

[TheKoromir]

Atleast this person understands whats going on compared to all others whom seem to be abit mislead thinking we want to claim something we have no claim to ^^
We just wanted to claim first "Original" as we earned and thats end of story

I've already congratulated you with first "server first" without any sarcasm of "salt" (whatever it means) and can do it again, if you missed the first time. If it means something for you, thou you bested it.
I wish you just don't equal this title to completing all challanges for the first time, in reality of rivalry, waiting for patches to see bugs fixed and challenges somehow practicable, forcing tactics and so on (you know it as well as I).
So, congratz MI6, wish to compete again in the future if it will be such opportunity.

[Vodomir]

How many of the 6 have you killed T2CM pal? It's more challenging because the previous 6 were killed one at a time and you don't know how many hours/days were put into killing them. It's quite possible kins who have killed them once have to spend hours on end killing them again because they're hard fights. You don't know what happens behind closed doors. In my opinion, being able to kill all 6 in quick succession shows a level of skill above that of killing one per week/raiding four hours a night. Just because you've done it or as you've put 'know the strategy' doesn't mean you walk in and kill it first time, every time. Edit* To add to my point, considering only two kins have completed 6/6 T2CM...how easy can it be?

It does take hours/days to kill a boss for the first time because you have to figure out the mechanics, lay out a strategy and get your group to practice/refine that strategy until they are able to execute it flawlessly ... that's what takes the time. Once you've been there and your group has figured stuff out, found a strategy and proven it is able to pull that strategy off, it doesn't take days anymore to complete a specific boss. I've been raiding in this and other games for long enough to know how stuff works behind "closed doors". There also is no need for a "quick succession" as there is zero time limit in the game, as long as you do it in one session (a group might as well just start in the morning and finish at 3 am the next morning) and please don't confuse "having enough time" with "skill level" (I'm pretty sure your group's skill level is extra-ordinarily high, no doubt about that, but doing things in one go doesn't require more skill, it merely requires more time for that specific session). I'm also pretty confident that the way locks work in this game, you can't kill one boss per week, so in order to get that precious Gothmog T2C world first kill (or any other actual first kills), you will have to go through all the preceding bosses first and you can't acquire locks in T1, so all of this "one per week" stuff is mere BS. I also never said bosses will be one-shotted after your first kill, but killing it the second time (or in case of earlier wings multiple times) isn't on the same level of challenge as the first time and the more often you kill a specific boss, the more routine it becomes. And as already pointed out, the game itself doesn't put any time pressure on your group or require you to one-shot the bosses, so you can spend multiple hours on one boss and still finish in one session.

As for your edit ... It's not been long since Unbroken One and Gothmog have been adjusted, so of course there's currently not many groups on the list, but the list will grow inevitably. And if you read more closely, I never said that it was "easy" by any means - I'm just saying killing something the second time (or third or fourth or fifth ... for that matter) around is hardly "more challenging" than it was the first time (how can it, as the difficulty of the encounter was not touched inbetween).

Yes, you have gotten the world's first "Original Challenger" title - congrats to that (though I already expressed that earlier), still didn't net you any world first kill for what it's worth. Trying to make things up as if doing the raid in one session all of a sudden makes it way more challenging isn't helping the case. And it certainly doesn't make your group the first to have beaten the raid ... as it's been beaten before. To be honest, for goups at the skill level of MI6, Portal or any other kin that is able to beat all bosses T2C, the challenge behind the "Original Challenger" title is not skill-based (as being able to kill all bosses already proves that skill level), but time-based, please don't act as if it was any other way.

Currently all your title proves is that you were able to assemble your raid first, that's all. If each and every other raid group fails to get the title, I will take back my words and may have a point about that "one session is way more challenging and shows more skill" stuff ... but I guess you will be proven wrong soon enough, as I'm pretty sure other kins will get their titles, too.

[Trampin]

I've already congratulated you with first "server first" without any sarcasm of "salt" (whatever it means) and can do it again, if you missed the first time. If it means something for you, thou you bested it.
I wish you just don't equal this title to completing all challanges for the first time, in reality of rivalry, waiting for patches to see bugs fixed and challenges somehow practicable, forcing tactics and so on (you know it as well as I).
So, congratz MI6, wish to compete again in the future if it will be such opportunity.

Thank you mate! Best of luck on Saturday. Send me a PM of how long it takes you, we can compare that. If this game has its license renewed we can indeed compete on the next.

[Melrant]

Hey everyone. I am the leader of the guild, which once was competing with Portal on Russian servers (as there was noone else to compete with). Currently I'm playing WoW, which is much more devoted to competitive raiding.

The First thing I can say is that there is only one World First, and Portal got this title.

Anyway, this is not the reason to start mocking someone for achieving something that u also wanted to achieve. I'm not surprised since these guys are extremely opinionated and they never accept someone else's achievement. The only thing u can do is to stop arguing and just ignor all this stuff that pops up everywhere where they try to prove something. Just believe me, I have a lot of experience at participating in these eternal forum battles with them.

I remember the times of Ost Dunhoth Raid, when our guild got Russian First (we couldn't compete with US and EU because of the delay of expansions). As soon as we got it, they instantly started to do what they do now, trying to diminish our achievement.

Moreover, intensivity of this progression race is not even close to what is going on in WoW and it can be hardly considered as cybersport. So, Portals, just chill, you are finally the best. Fortunately I know that this race is all about being committed, not about personal skill of your guild memebers. I hope u, Shaguar, realise that most of your players couldn't get to your guild several expansions ago since they were very bad at this game. I really doubt times changed in this regard.

MI6 graz. If you really want to be the first, u can easily grab the throne next time.

[Hepheastus]

To be honest, for goups at the skill level of MI6, Portal or any other kin that is able to beat all bosses T2C, the challenge behind the "Original Challenger" title is not skill-based (as being able to kill all bosses already proves that skill level), but time-based, please don't act as if it was any other way.

Currently all your title proves is that you were able to assemble your raid first, that's all. If each and every other raid group fails to get the title, I will take back my words and may have a point about that "one session is way more challenging and shows more skill" stuff ... but I guess you will be proven wrong soon enough, as I'm pretty sure other kins will get their titles, too.

This is selective logic. Every boss requires both skill and time and doing them all in one go is no exception. Time to figure out the tactics, and skill to perfectly execute them. Yes, these bosses were beaten before, but redoing them takes as much skill as doing them the first time, as they do not suddenly get nerfed after you've beaten them once. You now simply know the tactics, but still have to perfectly execute them.
Your logic would, for example, diminish Portal's world first on the Unbroken One CM, as they had only finished it 30m-1h prior to MI6. As far as I know, MI6 defeated the Unbroken CM after only a couple tries on the first night after Turbine nerfed it. These tries do not take very long, which would mean that Portal simply started raiding earlier. According to your argument, all that their world first proves is that they were able to raid earlier to kill it after Turbine made it (too) much easier and that this was purely time-based.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to diminish anything, Portal has well deserved this world first and I congratulate them for it. But getting the Original Challenger (or even the non-original version which i hear will soon be implemented) is a challenge on itself, just like completing a challenge on a boss (which now has to be done six times in a row). You cannot apply your logic to one instance and not mention it in the other.


Aside from this, congrats to all the progress being made! Great to see such challenging content being done by more and more kins

[legablaze123]

There also is no need for a "quick succession" as there is zero time limit in the game, as long as you do it in one session (a group might as well just start in the morning and finish at 3 am the next morning) and please don't confuse "having enough time" with "skill level" (I'm pretty sure your group's skill level is extra-ordinarily high, no doubt about that, but doing things in one go doesn't require more skill, it merely requires more time for that specific session).

This right here, this is a lie.


Instances only remain open for a maximum time of 14hours. You have 14 hours to clear the whole raid in one succession.


And sorry, your talk of tactics? Also not true, Just because you have a strategy that you can execute flawlessly, it will never be "perfect" the game is based on RNG, you have to deal with situations as they arise, you could have the most perfect strategy, but with regards to the 4th boss especially, if something spawns or occurs in a way that your strategy doesn't necessarily compensate.. Your screwed basically?