upcoming burg changes?

[Kalyna]

word is there could be some changes coming to the burglar class. while its probably futile to start yet another "suggestions thread", maybe we could still make one - just in case. try to keep it relatively short, e.g. your top three wishlist items.
mine are:

1. class item rework*
2. several bug fixes (esp. off hand dmg from fb and des. also provoke debuff and debuffing gamble)
3. remove from-stealth animation of surprise strike
_______________

*this one needs an explanation: class items for burgs have been trash forever. i see a rework as a nice little way to add to the burglar toolkit, as well as fixing some of the problems the class is struggling with atm. my suggestion would be to remove all consumableclass items and instead put a new skill into each trait line.

red: "caltrops"; you place a field on the ground that slows enemies and makes them more vulnerable to your attacks. (something to compensate for the loss of Location is Everything).
yellow: "smoke bomb"; you cover a small area around you in thick smoke. standing in this area increases your mitigations considerably. (some tankiness for damage that cant be b/p/e'd)
blue: "trip wire"; AoE knockdown trap (really havent thought too much about blue^^)

i intentionally left out numbers and such, because i dont want to make this about balancing, more about a general direction of things. i would just hate to see something like bows or more group heals....

[Hepheastus]

1. A bit of AoE capability, preferably a dot spread. (other options could be AoE Flashing Blades etc)
2. Some kind of damage boost in t2 content (Maybe a mitigation penetration buff?)
3. Better debuff capabilities to make them on-par with lore masters as a debuff class in group content.

Most of these are in pve perspective and are things I think are needed to make burg a more viable class to bring in group content such as Throne of the Dread Terror.

[Spilo]

Burgs don't need a damage boost by any means. Their t1 damage contribution is great, and they require some form of Mit Penetration for them to be viable for T2.

[InsaneChaos]

Hmm just a thought, what about Stacking Mit penetration? Ie, continued attacks on the target will increase Burglar's mit penetration. This would help DPS burg with Sustain, while not pushing the Burg's from-stealth burst over the edge or making it stronger in landscape content.

[Spilo]

Hmm just a thought, what about Stacking Mit penetration? Ie, continued attacks on the target will increase Burglar's mit penetration. This would help DPS burg with Sustain, while not pushing the Burg's from-stealth burst over the edge or making it stronger in landscape content.

Wouldn't be a bad idea. Perhaps give SS a stacking 5% mit debuff that stacks up to 20% or something.

[Ethrildar]

*cough*

HIPS cooldown reduced to 1min30.

*cough*

Joking aside, I wouldn't mind seeing Burg's debuffing capability take a little rise, and I think their survivability is a bit of an all eggs in one basket deal, which can be very irritating.

[Tirn]

*cough*

HIPS cooldown reduced to 1min30.

*cough*

Joking aside, I wouldn't mind seeing Burg's debuffing capability take a little rise, and I think their survivability is a bit of an all eggs in one basket deal, which can be very irritating.

errrrm I have no fecking idea so let's give them 30 % damage increase . They should be happy with that ... Idiots no idea what to do really , I've said it before and I'll keep saying it . Never had a burg developer that could count past 5 let alone take this class past anything other than redundancy .

I suggest they get their act sorted out or do us a favour and pick up their P45

[gorma_eu]

Short answer:

- make burgs viable in instanced pve

long answer:

- dont buff burst damage
- buff sustained damage
- aoe bleeds + aoe flashing blades in red line
- make bleeds either 100% stackable or tiered in potency
- buff healing and cc in yellow line
- buff debuff potency in blue line
- double edged strike should not reset the event for burglars advantage and vice versa(just like before HD)

[Kasius]

Short answer:

- make burgs viable in instanced pve

long answer:

- dont buff burst damage
- buff sustained damage
- aoe bleeds + aoe flashing blades in red line
- make bleeds either 100% stackable or tiered in potency
- buff healing and cc in yellow line
- buff debuff potency in blue line
- double edged strike should not reset the event for burglars advantage and vice versa(just like before HD)

-fix all burgler bugs(like debuff gamble,provoke,offhand krit/devaste)

[gorma_eu]

Another thing coming to my mind is the kind of broken positional damage. Parsing dps in position is fine but in 3 man content you are often forced to tank resulting in very poor dps, a problem every other tanking dps doesnt have.

Part of the problem is that positional bonus effects the base damage of a skill unlike physical mastery which is applied later.
So a 50% position bonus is worth a lot more than 50% in physical mastery.

Im not 100% sure how much positional dmg you could achieve right now but lets just say it is 50% and i base my numbers on that.

I think nerfing postional damage by ~30-40% and buffing the base damage of all skills(that benefit from positional bonus) by the same amount would help alot. This wont change overall dps at all. Positional dmg should be a thing but right now its absurdly high almost doubling your dps, it should be only a small boost. It would help burgs in 3 mans alot.

[Ethrildar]

Another thing coming to my mind is the kind of broken positional damage. Parsing dps in position is fine but in 3 man content you are often forced to tank resulting in very poor dps, a problem every other tanking dps doesnt have.

I agree with most statements on burg fixes lately, but I disagree entirely with this. Positional damage is one of the bonuses of the class, gives it uniqueness and ups the skill cap a little, too. In absolutely no way have I ever heard the burg referred to as a "tanking dps". Burglar has the Provoke skill purely because it is not a tank.

Tl;dr: You can't have everything. Bring a tank with you if you want positional damage in 3mans.

[Oelle]

i'd like doubled or tripled trickconsume-heal-potency in yellowline. those heals/hots should be allowed to crit and the rest should be pure base-increase.
with tripled healpotency, burglars would be viable as healer in 3man-instances, still the healingpotential would be too small to compete with minstrel/runekeepers/beorns/captains for bigger groups and raids, where burglars have a spot because of their debuffing and damaging abilities.

and i'd like a complete rework for blueline (to change it to tanky or aoe or useful debuffing/CC but imo, yellow is debuffing/CC so better aoe/tanky).
if provoketrait does not get changed, provoke needs a cooldown of at least 10sec, better 20.

positional should stay as it is. thats the whole point of being damaging burglar. blue trait might get higher basedamage without positional imo, as long as red with position stays stronger. a blue trait that converts all +x% positional damage into +x/2% basedamage would be a good thing, i'd say.

[Irin19]

errrrm I have no fecking idea so let's give them 30 % damage increase . They should be happy with that ... Idiots no idea what to do really , I've said it before and I'll keep saying it . Never had a burg developer that could count past 5 let alone take this class past anything other than redundancy .

I suggest they get their act sorted out or do us a favour and pick up their P45

FWIW, I think what we're seeing is simply a cause left over from the effect of turbine's multiple employee culls over the past few years. I would bet most (if not all) of the original people that coded each class (we will call them class developers) are long gone. The few that are left are probably talented people BUT there is no substitute for the guy or gal that originally wrote the code with full understanding of the mechanics involved.

So, now we are left with a team that may be the most talented folks they have left - are stretched too thin AND are forced to be jacks of all trades - and masters of none.

I'm not making excuses for them by any stretch, I just think that this is likely the reality we are looking at. So yeah, a damage increase is something any coder on staff can do.

When you get time google "The Hawthorne Effect". I suspect the masses are sheeple (very few spend time researching and trying to learn as much as they can about a situation i.e. spend time in the forums discussing with other concerned players) so even if their direct issue isn't addressed anything that is done is perceived as an upgrade. Increasing dps is not the answer, but it will quiet the herdable masses.

[bucks]

FWIW, I think what we're seeing is simply a cause left over from the effect of turbine's multiple employee culls over the past few years. I would bet most (if not all) of the original people that coded each class (we will call them class developers) are long gone. The few that are left are probably talented people BUT there is no substitute for the guy or gal that originally wrote the code with full understanding of the mechanics involved.

So, now we are left with a team that may be the most talented folks they have left - are stretched too thin AND are forced to be jacks of all trades - and masters of none.

I'm not making excuses for them by any stretch, I just think that this is likely the reality we are looking at. So yeah, a damage increase is something any coder on staff can do.

When you get time google "The Hawthorne Effect". I suspect the masses are sheeple (very few spend time researching and trying to learn as much as they can about a situation i.e. spend time in the forums discussing with other concerned players) so even if their direct issue isn't addressed anything that is done is perceived as an upgrade. Increasing dps is not the answer, but it will quiet the herdable masses.

From the changes listed in beta all I see is more burst dps with a "semi" fix to off hand dmg from FB, DES, CDG. I do like the change to burg bleeds though, they seem to be much more potent then before while not being at the level of wardens.

[gorma_eu]

Changes are appreciated but underwhelming in general. Burgs needed a lot of love and all they got was a half done bugfix and a small burst buff. This could have been done in any simple patch as a side note.
This triggers me everytime, they promised some major overhaul and when you look at hunter and burg changes its clear they didnt put much thought into this.

- All red burgs needed was a reliable mitigation penetration, and a way to contribute to aoe dps.
- Yellow debuffing and cc is in good shape, I would have liked to see a buff to our trick removal heals(atleast +200%, ability to crit), more targets to aoe debuffing, and the capstone to be a passive or an ability to turn on/off
- Blue line is still in a very bad shape. It should be completly redone into a tanking, healing or aoe dps role so burgs could be useful in 3 man content. Sure there are some nice traits in this line, but the line as a whole is complete failure.

[InsaneChaos]

Changes are appreciated but underwhelming in general. Burgs needed a lot of love and all they got was a half done bugfix and a small burst buff. This could have been done in any simple patch as a side note.
This triggers me everytime, they promised some major overhaul and when you look at hunter and burg changes its clear they didnt put much thought into this.

- All red burgs needed was a reliable mitigation penetration, and a way to contribute to aoe dps.
- Yellow debuffing and cc is in good shape, I would have liked to see a buff to our trick removal heals(atleast +200%, ability to crit), more targets to aoe debuffing, and the capstone to be a passive or an ability to turn on/off
- Blue line is still in a very bad shape. It should be completly redone into a tanking, healing or aoe dps role so burgs could be useful in 3 man content. Sure there are some nice traits in this line, but the line as a whole is complete failure.

U19 isn't just about class rebalancing; there's quite a bit of additional content that the barebones dev team has to attend to.
According to Cordovan's statement in http://dadislotroguides.com/cordovan...erview-part-1/ ,the class balancing is far from over; hinting at runekeeper balance (smells like nerfs), language that sounds like buffs to melee dps (smells like burgs) and explicit statements regarding more hunter changes. While I'm very hesitant to say that these changes can be expected, I believe its safe to assume there'll further development.

Also AFAIK the offhand crits still aren't fixed; tho maybe the latest build has fixed that as I haven't seen any recent complaints.

[Lioncourt86]

Also AFAIK the offhand crits still aren't fixed; tho maybe the latest build has fixed that as I haven't seen any recent complaints.

Nope, it is not fixed. At least not completely, or even very noticeably. The changes they are doing will lessen the gap between off hand and main hand crit values, but the bug is still very much alive.

More info (and some interaction with Cordovan) here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-(unconfirmed)

[gorma_eu]

U19 isn't just about class rebalancing; there's quite a bit of additional content that the barebones dev team has to attend to.

The problem is, they did these changes without putting enough thought and time into it. Or let's say not as much time and effort as rebalancing requires. I wish they would have pulled back these changes and make proper changes for u20. But now they will just call it done and move on to the next 2 classes in the next update. The rebelancing for burglar and hunter is really disappointing and almost all affected players feel bad about those changes. Even if they say, that they could make some adjustments in upcoming patches, it feels like a bad joke because the update 19 "major class overhaul" change already feels really small and ineffective. So as a result alot of players don't have high hopes for "maybe some adjustments at some point in the future". You can't even say that they did a bad job on this, because you don't know how much time was scheduled for the rebalancing, maybe they did a great job based on this.