Critical Chain Skill Critical Chance Legacy missing Post-Imbuement

[Mithlindar]

I posted this in the LI sub but I figured it would be valuable to share here as well. I forgot to mention that I /bug it already in case anybody yells at me =(

So I made my LIs today, and in my Tools I added "Critical Chain Skill Critical Chance", I then went to imbue it. And I saw this



I said "well, another bug" crossed fingers and moments later I had a 6 legacy weapon with that Open Legacy Slot, which let me replace it but as you already guessed, Critical Chain Skill Critical Chance legacy is not in the pool/list. I checked with another burg and confirmed it's missing for him as well.

So I guess that after touching the class for changes on last update, someone (as usual) messed up that Legacy Post-Imbuement. So basically you can have it Pre-Imbuement, but the moment you imbue (as denoted by the Imbue LI window) it disappears and instead you get to select another legacy in place of that one, at least for now while they fix it (which may be 3 updates from now if I am to judge).

The aftermath: I ended up with selecting another legacy for my LI, and in the future if they ever fix it, I'll have to use a Replacement Scroll.

The advantage I can probably think the way it is, if you get that legacy and want another, there's no need to level up - proc legacy - and decon to extract. Just level it up, imbue, and you get a Free Legacy selection.


tl;dr: Critical Chain Skill Critical Chance is missing in the Post-Imbuement pool, don't plan on getting it for your new Burglar's Tools. If you imbue with it, you get an Open Legacy Slot (as if you used a Crystal of Remembrance)

[InsaneChaos]

AFAIK there was never a post-imbuement Critical Chain Skills Crit Chance legacy; upon imbuement, the legacy would convert to Critical Chain Skills Crit Rating (which is pretty much useless). Guess someone thought having a Scaling Crit Chance buff to Burg's strongest skills would be too op (which it very well could be) and turned it into a garbage legacy instead.

The patch notes for U19.0.1 states:

Burglar - Legacies - Classic Legacy "Critical Chain Skills Critical" now correctly enhances Crit Chance on Crit Response Skills.

So my guess is that it wasn't intended for Crit Chain Crit Chance to be available post-imbuement (same as it was previously), only that the legacy would actually work with a non-imbued LI.

I suppose you are correct in that the legacy is bugged and won't convert to the dumpster-tier legacy.

[Mithlindar]

That explains it then, they directly touched the legacy and messed up the post-imbuement version of it.

[dagorironfist]

That explains it then, they directly touched the legacy and messed up the post-imbuement version of it.

What happened with this legendary item legacy had everything to do with post-imbuement concerns about the legacy becoming OP as it scaled up. The thought was the potential that Burglars could be running a critical chain from open to close making them significantly OP. It was a really bad excuse from the development team considering how badly they broke the Burglar class during the Helm's Deep update (U13). It only took them to U19 to kinda, sorta make red line Burglar useful in the post-Osgiliath group content. And it's still awesome on Crickhollow to see SL, RC, BoBS and Quays runs exclude Burglars despite being buffed a bit. So developers, the number one priority for red line Burglars is a way to spread the bleeds around on those trash MOBs!

But that gripe has nothing to do with your question, which was about the Crit Chain Skills Crit Chance legacy on your Burg bag. In this instance, just console yourself in the knowledge that a while back a really, really bad decision was made about this class and it's not going to be re-visited.

[Hurtful]

What happened with this legendary item legacy had everything to do with post-imbuement concerns about the legacy becoming OP as it scaled up. The thought was the potential that Burglars could be running a critical chain from open to close making them significantly OP. It was a really bad excuse from the development team considering how badly they broke the Burglar class during the Helm's Deep update (U13). It only took them to U19 to kinda, sorta make red line Burglar useful in the post-Osgiliath group content. And it's still awesome on Crickhollow to see SL, RC, BoBS and Quays runs exclude Burglars despite being buffed a bit. So developers, the number one priority for red line Burglars is a way to spread the bleeds around on those trash MOBs!

But that gripe has nothing to do with your question, which was about the Crit Chain Skills Crit Chance legacy on your Burg bag. In this instance, just console yourself in the knowledge that a while back a really, really bad decision was made about this class and it's not going to be re-visited.

After a few months away from the game, I see they've attempted some modifications to the burg class. So what people in this thread are saying is that they gave us back the Crit Chain Skills Crit legacy.....but only for non-imbued LIs.......and people think this isn't a bug? I don't see how it couldn't be a bug. After Turbine touted burg changes for some time, they surely wouldn't inflict changes that only apply to sub-level capped burgs who are likely the only ones who would be using non-imbued LIs. Or are they suggesting level-capped burgs must now make a decision between the legacy on a non-imbued LI in lieu of all the boosted stats/dps from imbued LIs. One step forward....two steps back?

[dwarfThar]

After a few months away from the game, I see they've attempted some modifications to the burg class. So what people in this thread are saying is that they gave us back the Crit Chain Skills Crit legacy.....but only for non-imbued LIs.......and people think this isn't a bug? I don't see how it couldn't be a bug. After Turbine touted burg changes for some time, they surely wouldn't inflict changes that only apply to sub-level capped burgs who are likely the only ones who would be using non-imbued LIs. Or are they suggesting level-capped burgs must now make a decision between the legacy on a non-imbued LI in lieu of all the boosted stats/dps from imbued LIs. One step forward....two steps back?

No idea what they were thinking with this, but giving us back this legacy on imbued LIs now would be totally overkill without other adjustments.

[dagorironfist]

@Hurtful I saw your post over there and thought I'd get you here too. This is a re-post from over there.

Thar mentioned that if the development team gave this legacy back to the Burglar class, it might cause the class to become OP unless they did some more re-working of the Burglar class. I hate to agree with this sentiment but it's true. With the changes the development team made to red line, getting additional critical chance just seems overkill to the extreme. My crit chance is already at 28%. Let's add another 12 points to that? Seems a bit over-the-top in the context of how the Burglar class currently plays. Prior to the U19 changes I'd have agreed with you that a return to this legacy would have been a welcome fix. But since U19, I think developer time could be better spent on the Burglar class by giving red line a way to spread bleeds, fixing blue and yellow lines following some of Lioncourt's suggestions in the Burglar thread, while also giving them a way to spread the bleeds. Imbuing your LIs is just one step and you should also take into consideration slotted essence gear. Your legacies might be better spent ensuring your damage output is higher. Just my two cents.

[Lioncourt86]

I do not know what the dev's intentions were with this "change". The missing legacy upon imbuement is clearly a "we did not test this" bug. As others have said though, it would be very OP if it did carry over to imbuement.

A non-imbued legacy that caps at +15% becomes +37.8% at max tier for imbuement (currently). That would make Crit Chain skills have the potential for 70.3% Crit Chance (32.5% + 37.8%). That would be crazy lol.

I am thinking maybe they only applied it to the "classic" legacy so that burgs that are still leveling will have an easier time keeping their crit chain rotation up. But who knows.

It is silly though for it to act like a Crystal of Remembrance upon imbuement though.

[Hurtful]

@Hurtful I saw your post over there and thought I'd get you here too. This is a re-post from over there.

Thar mentioned that if the development team gave this legacy back to the Burglar class, it might cause the class to become OP unless they did some more re-working of the Burglar class. I hate to agree with this sentiment but it's true. With the changes the development team made to red line, getting additional critical chance just seems overkill to the extreme. My crit chance is already at 28%. Let's add another 12 points to that? Seems a bit over-the-top in the context of how the Burglar class currently plays. Prior to the U19 changes I'd have agreed with you that a return to this legacy would have been a welcome fix. But since U19, I think developer time could be better spent on the Burglar class by giving red line a way to spread bleeds, fixing blue and yellow lines following some of Lioncourt's suggestions in the Burglar thread, while also giving them a way to spread the bleeds. Imbuing your LIs is just one step and you should also take into consideration slotted essence gear. Your legacies might be better spent ensuring your damage output is higher. Just my two cents.

I haven't had much time to play around with new damage output tests, but it seems they could easily modify the gains of the legacy so the 30%-plus imbuement boost to crit chance is not out of bounds with overall output rather than having this weird "you can have the legacy on a fresh LI, but poof it's gone when you choose to imbue" sort of situation. I don't know how easy it would be to code the change, but I can't imagine decreasing the per-tier percentage gain of the legacy would require much work at all.

In other words, if this is how it's going to be, it comes across as a very rushed, thoughtless change. Burgs were (and likely still are to an extent) not very viable in tier 2 content compared to other classes. The easiest change is to increase raw damage output, increase mitigation bypass, or increase criticial hit chance. From a PvE standpoint, this doesn't seem all that unrealistic to bring burgs up to par with the rest of the field. It likely leads to imbalances in PvP due to the nature of the class having heavy hitting single-target skills. However, from before my break I recall several creep skills having critical hit chances that were very high.

Overall, it just seems wonky to even include this as some sort of positive burg modification when it frankly doesn't exist on imbued LIs and can only show some sort of positive impact on leveling burgs facing insanely dumbed down leveling experiences from landscape mobs.

[Welmur]

They should just change it to give something between 10% to 20%, I'd love to get it back.

[Spilo]

They should just change it to give something between 10% to 20%, I'd love to get it back.

That'd be nice. It'd need to be coincided with a 15-25% damage nerf to Burglar, if not more, however.

[dwarfThar]

That'd be nice. It'd need to be coincided with a 15-25% damage nerf to Burglar, if not more, however.

This. I'm getting roughly the same DPS numbers with unimbued and imbued tools - that means these 15% equal 22,8% crit multiplier + 22,8% positional damage. This is of course based on just some parses, so nowhere near statistically reliable - someone could surely calculate how much of a DPS increase this legacy yields exactly.

I would also be pleased if it was coming back. Including a proper damage adjustment of course.

[mattg18]

This. I'm getting roughly the same DPS numbers with unimbued and imbued tools - that means these 15% equal 22,8% crit multiplier + 22,8% positional damage. This is of course based on just some parses, so nowhere near statistically reliable - someone could surely calculate how much of a DPS increase this legacy yields exactly.

I would also be pleased if it was coming back. Including a proper damage adjustment of course.

based on my rough parses, i too was getting around the same dps numbers between an unimbued and imbued LI...no starting in stealth and no reveal weakness, this was also without exposed throat traited and running 32.5% crit chance

i also took it a step further and replaced the legacy with legacy of might on my unimbued LI to get rid of the legacy (on beta) and found that my dps dropped about ~9-12%

the thing is that i feel like its more equal to the loss of 22.8% positional damage as burglars already have an insanely high crit multiplier from other skills and legacies, when i had done a few parses without positional damage, the unimbued LI easily out dps'd the imbued LI every time, roughly by about ~6.5%

[InsaneChaos]

They could give the legacy the treatment that they gave of Tricks Duration: have it provide a different bonus after a certain tier.
Don't remember the exact bonus, but the trick duration legacy caps at +15 or so and then provides Trick Resistance Penetration.

So they could go to 10-20% critical chain skill crit chance to something else (ie more useless crit rating, too tired to think of something they could boost)
edit- Maybe devastate crit magnitude?

[Lioncourt86]

They could give the legacy the treatment that they gave of Tricks Duration: have it provide a different bonus after a certain tier.
Don't remember the exact bonus, but the trick duration legacy caps at +15 or so and then provides Trick Resistance Penetration.

So they could go to 10-20% critical chain skill crit chance to something else (ie more useless crit rating, too tired to think of something they could boost)
edit- Maybe devastate crit magnitude?

If they were to go that route, I would be satisfied the imbued legacy also capped at +15% Critical Chance and had some secondary stat like... even raw Agility.

Maybe at max rank something like +5% Devastate Chance for Crit Chain, but then I would be worried that in the future the chance would spike up to something too high. But if it were kept low enough and the growth rate was small enough to reflect that (+5% at rank 59) then it should be fine.

This would have to accompany a slight-moderate nerf to Critical Chain Skills damage only imo. An across-the-board nerf to burglar damage seems like overkill.