U 19.2 Jewellery

[Joedangod]

IMHO this flower picking stuff, yes is a bit silly, but is just filler content. The raid is almost 6 months old, so really the elite have already beaten it, I can understand it hurts a bit to have newer stuff come out from flower picking that makes the raid seem a bit of a waste of time, save the challenge of completing it, but at some point everyone's gear is going to get replaced.

Filler content probably shouldn't surpass actual content, it can offer ways to get into the actual content easier but certainly not surpass the actual content in terms of reward.

[Hallandil]

Aren't those the three gold rings they were originally going to release with North Ithilien? The names sound familiar and their removal was most likely the reason the jewelry wasn't available when the update launched.

Those were bracelets of the same idea and from some post during Bullroarer and chat on server it was stated that the bracelets would be added to the raid loot.

[bucko39]

You clearly do not understand the situation. Raiders will always be better geared, there's no competition there. Raider gameplay is based around knowing your stats and knowing how best to equip yourself to handle the content whilst landscape gameplay is more about reading the quest description than actually applying knowledge and skill. Thus raiders will always chase after the best gear and will generally obtain it before anyone else; it's what they do.

We know we aren't getting a raid anytime soon, we know we aren't getting an instance cluster anytime soon. We are attempting to defend the loot in the raid simply to bolster the longevity of the raid to hold us over until more challenging content is added or a level cap boost renders current content fully obsolete. In this case 50% or more of the loot we actually cared to get from the raid was made obsolete by easier to obtain, faster to obtain and flat out better pieces of jewellery that did not require the purchase of the region involved. We do not see how this is good for the game, raid longevity has been reduced as there are less rewards to go after. Large amounts of the best gear in the game is gained via a node collecting system that does not require any in-game purchases at all. The paid content is not the easiest or best path to gearing a character, it's obsolete. People don't buy obsolete content.

If you're pleased with the situation and pleased that it came at the expense of a part of the game community you are prejudiced against then perhaps you should just get over yourself and not comment unless you have something worthwhile to add that doesn't attempt to belittle the opinions of others. Is that fair enough to ask?

1. It's 2016, can we stop using the word "Raiders"? It's cliche and in most cases (as in this post) it's used to divide the player base. There are people who enjoy challenging group content and the rewards that it can provide. Period. You are not any better at mashing buttons on a keyboard, you just happen to take the game a bit more seriously than others. In this case, I would argue, a little bit too much.

2. You speak of prejudice and yet you seem determined to put your play style over that of others. Even in this post, you come across extremely condescending. For the record, I'm all for end-game group content and competitive raiding--I just don't expect to get it in LotRO--a game that took almost 4 years to give us a new raid. So naturally, I look to other MMOs that do provide that particular type of content consistently and on a regular basis.

3. The bottom line is that you want to "bolster the longevity of the raid" at the cost of any other type of horizontal gear progression over a set period of time. Even though you fully admit, you don't expect Turbine to produce a raid or any other form of challenging group content anytime soon. In a nutshell, you're being selfish. And despite one or two people in this thread that agree with you, I'd say you are definitely in the minority. Although I don't partake, the kin I'm in takes it's raiding extremely seriously. However, as they finished the new raid months ago they have ZERO problem with the fact that there is new gear in the game that can be "easily" obtained through solo content. Because it's been almost 5 months.

Most of the sane people have begun to leave this argument and I think i will join them.

[thinx]

No that's just a fact. You said if your DPS % rises from 160% to 200% (or wise versa) you lose/gain 40% damage... That is really basic math and totally wrong lol....

Wrong thread. See there. There is an error there, but it does not change the principle problem.

EDIT: Thinking more about this statement, this confirms what this is about. "You did a calculation error, you are bad at math, you are bad at playing, muahahaha". It is not even about arguments behind it. I redid the calculation in the other thread, as I am able to fix my errors. Using the fact that my wrong calculation was based on understatement rather than exaggeration, the real situation is worse than the result with the error.

I do calculation errors sometimes, especially for stuff that is not important like these forums (my posts take too long anyway). Still there is a difference between doing a calculation error and deliberatily twisting the truth to support arguments. I am willing to fix my errors if I was wrong. This is different behavior than trying to twist and attempting to change the topic as soon as errors occur or lies/exaggeration is revealed.

[Arnenna]

1. It's 2016, can we stop using the word "Raiders"? It's cliche and in most cases (as in this post) it's used to divide the player base. There are people who enjoy challenging group content and the rewards that it can provide. Period. You are not any better at mashing buttons on a keyboard, you just happen to take the game a bit more seriously than others. In this case, I would argue, a little bit too much.

2. You speak of prejudice and yet you seem determined to put your play style over that of others. Even in this post, you come across extremely condescending. For the record, I'm all for end-game group content and competitive raiding--I just don't expect to get it in LotRO--a game that took almost 4 years to give us a new raid. So naturally, I look to other MMOs that do provide that particular type of content consistently and on a regular basis.

3. The bottom line is that you want to "bolster the longevity of the raid" at the cost of any other type of horizontal gear progression over a set period of time. Even though you fully admit, you don't expect Turbine to produce a raid or any other form of challenging group content anytime soon. In a nutshell, you're being selfish. And despite one or two people in this thread that agree with you, I'd say you are definitely in the minority. Although I don't partake, the kin I'm in takes it's raiding extremely seriously. However, as they finished the new raid months ago they have ZERO problem with the fact that there is new gear in the game that can be "easily" obtained through solo content. Because it's been almost 5 months.

Most of the sane people have begun to leave this argument and I think i will join them.

Sometimes I hate that the forums allow quoting. It means I have to see what I took steps to not see

"Raiders", I can for most part, live with when it's thrown around. It's the "we feel", "we are", "we think" that's the problem, when its used alongside it. It is trying to present a view of all raiders, when that is not actually the case. It is unrepresentative and false, and deliberately misleading. Fabrication at it's worst. That there is the point where they are not deserving of so much as a glance, even when presenting valid points - for me anyway. There are more raiders that have stood up and claimed they don''t care about this, than there are that claim they do.

I trailed off from it a couple of days ago, and only pop back to read now and again. The situation has become to look desperate for a few, with the competitive edge spanning far beyond their gaming experience. God complex and all. They simply must win, but I think Turbine crossed the finishing line quite some time ago. Maybe they missed it.

[Joedangod]

1. It's 2016, can we stop using the word "Raiders"? It's cliche and in most cases (as in this post) it's used to divide the player base. There are people who enjoy challenging group content and the rewards that it can provide. Period. You are not any better at mashing buttons on a keyboard, you just happen to take the game a bit more seriously than others. In this case, I would argue, a little bit too much.

2. You speak of prejudice and yet you seem determined to put your play style over that of others. Even in this post, you come across extremely condescending. For the record, I'm all for end-game group content and competitive raiding--I just don't expect to get it in LotRO--a game that took almost 4 years to give us a new raid. So naturally, I look to other MMOs that do provide that particular type of content consistently and on a regular basis.

3. The bottom line is that you want to "bolster the longevity of the raid" at the cost of any other type of horizontal gear progression over a set period of time. Even though you fully admit, you don't expect Turbine to produce a raid or any other form of challenging group content anytime soon. In a nutshell, you're being selfish. And despite one or two people in this thread that agree with you, I'd say you are definitely in the minority. Although I don't partake, the kin I'm in takes it's raiding extremely seriously. However, as they finished the new raid months ago they have ZERO problem with the fact that there is new gear in the game that can be "easily" obtained through solo content. Because it's been almost 5 months.

Most of the sane people have begun to leave this argument and I think i will join them.

Progression for progressions sake is pointless. Horizontal progression is fine so long as new, more difficult content is added. That didn't happen. If no new challenging content is going to be created why on earth should the existing stuff become more and more trivialised by rising stats and diminishing loot pools? Is it really just so people can have "nice stuff" without putting in time and effort?

[Catburg]

IMHO this flower picking stuff, yes is a bit silly, but is just filler content. The raid is almost 6 months old, so really the elite have already beaten it, I can understand it hurts a bit to have newer stuff come out from flower picking that makes the raid seem a bit of a waste of time, save the challenge of completing it, but at some point everyone's gear is going to get replaced.

We've been told that flower picking gear will be useful into next year, note useful, not BIS, and when the Expack hits well anything could happen. So it's quite possible given the upcoming Expack that everyone will be replacing everything, I mean do we know if there's a level cap increase? If so then right there everyone is throwing ALL their gear away, save for upgrading LIs.

Personally I would not bother working too hard on gear til we know what's happening with the Expack. The pattern of Update, Essence Reclamation Scrolls, slightly better essences etc, is set, and with landscape being relatively easy, and the latest raid clearly being beatable without the need for all this new 'bling' I'd pass it by. IMHO If you couldn't beat the raid without this shiny flower picking stuff, you are unlikely to be able to beat it with it. Why not beat the system and sit tight, instead of being stung yet again reslotting new essences into new gear when there is no NEW group content that requires it?

I do understand both sides of the argument, but with nothing at all confirmed as needing this gear coming up, this looks like Turbine wanting more players getting top gear so more players need to buy stuff from the store just coz they then feel Uber. All for it to be replaced AGAIN later on, when there may actually be content that needs it.

*shrugs*

Spot on.

Turbine want to get a critical mass of players or their alts ready for upcoming content and only they know what that is and when it will be released. People can get flower sets in their entirety or use pieces to fill in the gaps to make moving on to new zones or activities easier and less grindy or in some cases doable. For example I'm just moving my Beorning (not my main or anywhere near) into North Ithilean and although she has first age LIs and she is 105 a lot of her gear is trash, some bits level 90. She survives ok but is it ever grindy and she won't be getting my best essences either!

[Joedangod]

Spot on.

Turbine want to get a critical mass of players or their alts ready for upcoming content and only they know what that is and when it will be released. People can get flower sets in their entirety or use pieces to fill in the gaps to make moving on to new zones or activities easier and less grindy or in some cases doable. For example I'm just moving my Beorning (not my main or anywhere near) into North Ithilean and although she has first age LIs and she is 105 a lot of her gear is trash, some bits level 90. She survives ok but is it ever grindy and she won't be getting my best essences either!

To be honest, if Turbine announced "There is a new instance cluster coming in 3 months time" the complaints about the jewellery might decrease simply because we know a new challenge is coming and thus greater rewards. That's not what is currently happening though, can't take guesses at the future when we have no real idea of what that could be. Instead we are stuck commenting on mistakes already made in an effort to make sure the present content is suitable.

If a new level cap is coming before the next instance cluster I'd honestly just laugh, Turbine would have made 50% of raid loot obsolete for no reason just by adding flower jewels and then made flower jewels obsolete by the level cap raise and associated new items.


And for those who seem to think longevity of this raid does not matter; Throne is locked to level 105, it very well might be another raid that does not scale. Every other raid that does not scale offers the best loot for its level, why would Throne be an exception?

[siipperi]

1. It's 2016, can we stop using the word "Raiders"? It's cliche and in most cases (as in this post) it's used to divide the player base. There are people who enjoy challenging group content and the rewards that it can provide. Period. You are not any better at mashing buttons on a keyboard, you just happen to take the game a bit more seriously than others. In this case, I would argue, a little bit too much.

Thing is to mash buttons in right order.

[Catburg]

To be honest, if Turbine announced "There is a new instance cluster coming in 3 months time" the complaints about the jewellery might decrease simply because we know a new challenge is coming and thus greater rewards. That's not what is currently happening though, can't take guesses at the future when we have no real idea of what that could be. Instead we are stuck commenting on mistakes already made in an effort to make sure the present content is suitable.

If a new level cap is coming before the next instance cluster I'd honestly just laugh, Turbine would have made 50% of raid loot obsolete for no reason just by adding flower jewels and then made flower jewels obsolete by the level cap raise and associated new items.


And for those who seem to think longevity of this raid does not matter; Throne is locked to level 105, it very well might be another raid that does not scale. Every other raid that does not scale offers the best loot for its level, why would Throne be an exception?

I don't think anyone, or many, expect flowers to be anything other than a stop gap anyway. They're pretty throw away as long as you have essence removal scrolls. The fact there is no gating is what leads me to suspect that it will allow a lot of alts to be stat ready for what will be coming up.

[Joedangod]

I don't think anyone, or many, expect flowers to be anything other than a stop gap anyway. They're pretty throw away as long as you have essence removal scrolls. The fact there is no gating is what leads me to suspect that it will allow a lot of alts to be stat ready for what will be coming up.

Don't you think that, as paying customers, we have a slight right to know "what will be coming up" though? We're currently stuck drawing conclusions from weirdly implemented items. It's not exactly the best way to let your playerbase know what you intend to do.

[Catburg]

Don't you think that, as paying customers, we have a slight right to know "what will be coming up" though? We're currently stuck drawing conclusions from weirdly implemented items. It's not exactly the best way to let your playerbase know what you intend to do.

Well they might have plans for what is coming up but the question is can they get them working within a set time scale? If not those plans may have to alter somewhat but I broadly agree with you.

[Joedangod]

Well they might have plans for what is coming up but the question is can they get them working within a set time scale? If not those plans may have to alter somewhat but I broadly agree with you.

And then I'm left wondering why implement the flower jewellery now if the timescale for the upcoming event is still unknown. Seems to me that having the raid jewellery stay BiS or having flower jewellery = raid jewellery would have caused far less issues in regards to the longevity of the current content (raid) that is all we have until this new content is released. Overall this entire situation was a poor move on Turbine's part.

[LoveMeBanMe]

....when it used to be Monster Play considered as end-game?

Why don't they give Monsters the possibility to slot Corruptions into Corruptions Armour?
Monsters could be picking "fallen Free Peoples", while searching for the One Ring?
These "bodies" should contain barter-items, kind of like the Flower Power gear?

Monsters could also get something like the Free Peoples' Roving Threats, same idea, just for Monsters.
Both factions could then be running towards such a Roving Threat in the Ettenmoors and use it to help you beat the opposition?
The Roving Threats then drop barter coins, which you use to barter for items only useable in the Ettenmoors?

HA HA HAH HAH HAH HAGH HAGH HAGH!


....I guess, those were the days.

[Tombpyre]

I think it is nice with the flower armor and jewels. The jewels are a minor upgrade to the FI dropped ones, giving you 3 more slots spread on 7 pieces (since you need 2x2 mitigation essenses on most classes to compensate for the loss from FI jewels (860ishx7) - if you have already shaved mitis down to the bone).
What is especially nice, is that if you are unlucy with pelenor drops or raid drops, you can go and do hard grind to get something nice - which also gives something for lpayers who prefer small group play.

That being said, i feel that there should be a more significant difference between armor and jewel bits. I have found in other mmo that i prefer the quality of items to decrease according to this list:

Raid t2 - best
Raid t1
Hardest instance types
Rare top crafting (or with rare components)
Regular instancetypes, elite mob drops, epic questrewards plus grind (vendor or world content)
Normal crafting
Normal questrewards
Random mob drops

Just my preferrences. I think the gap between FI instance dropped jewels and flower/raid is so tiny that it seems more like make work and sell solvent, than an actual improvement.

After having played Rifts for 2½ years i really hate micro improvements, its just a middle finger to players who spend alot of time and/r money getting the good stuff when better appears every 4 months.

[Vilda]

The fact there is no gating is what leads me to suspect that it will allow a lot of alts to be stat ready for what will be coming up.

No. The stupid flower-picking actually stops me from doing more then 2 characters, this is so annoying. I hate it.
And guess what, no alts - no essences, no need of buying solvents.

[girlsonlygirls]

[QUOTE=Mukor;7671406] , " are you guys trying to make me laugh or what ? why make it more difficult for somebuddy who wants what's already there? try to realize this person somehow found their way into north ithilien... now how in the hell was this an easy task i wonder? & they've got the ability to add essences , etc.. c'mon please give me a break ! these are obviously geniouses to be caught up with us at this time or even playing our game at all. tell me where the essence gold will come from ? when i bought lotro gold online , they caught me ! & i'll tell yall , participating in raids takes a friggin' genious , so leave the hippies alone ok ? some people just need to get away from their real lives for awhile maybe and play with bunnies. & when that friggin' tarantula appears in front of you , you're gonna wish there was a couple of well geared flower children by your side for a quicker kill.

[Laerien]

Those who hate flower picking, please don't go North Ithilien to pick flowers, we won't miss you.

Note: Don't even try it.

[Gandalphor]

The reason we were never against upgrading raid jewelry or armour is that it still required you to get those first in the raid.

Making 50% of the raiding drops obsolete in a single update was just crazy and - to be even a bit rude - stupid. I, together with others who have participated in the other thread, would not have anything against these gold rings. It's only 2 items and the cost is apropriate. And it comes with 2 items that will drop in raid too, even though it's only a chance and we don't know how high it is. This was the sensible thing to do the first time around.

I feel that those items were wrong on many levels... Making raid obsolete and making you spend your flower extracts on jewelry, armour, cosmetics... Then make you grind even more in later updates for the same pieces of gear, now even better and more expensive. Just making you spend more time on a brain dead content.

But that's Turbine and the Devs for you... Mess with people and F their time.