So maybe blue ISN'T the way to go?

[Mukor]

We are talking about invites via World chat. Not as before u19 but people still prefer RK instead of hunters...

Yeah well, world chat.The problem there is a good hunter overpassed a good rk, but an averrage rk overpassed an average hunter. So think what chance is better in the world chat a good guy or an average.

[fuzz.]

Yeah well, world chat.The problem there is a good hunter overpassed a good rk, but an averrage rk overpassed an average hunter. So think what chance is better in the world chat a good guy or an average.

Thats not accurate.
A top end geared hunter moght do better dps than an average rk , against an equally geared rk, i doubt hunter stand a chance. Unless they are using auroch set.
when considering normally geared hunter vs normally geared rk, its not even close.

[DKenny]

Plus the hunter needs a dedicated LM power battery to maintain the high dps whereas the RK does not. Then of course there's RK (pre)rez et al.

[MaxHunter]

Lots of hunters are still focused in induction legacies and that does not help to hunter's reputation...

[SpicyMacHaggis]

Thats not accurate.
A top end geared hunter moght do better dps than an average rk , against an equally geared rk, i doubt hunter stand a chance. Unless they are using auroch set.
when considering normally geared hunter vs normally geared rk, its not even close.

You're misinformed, top hunters beat top rk's in ST DPS.

[Oelle]

Lots of hunters are still focused in induction legacies and that does not help to hunter's reputation...

If you put hunters in two groups and call the red-specced-induction-users bad for hunter's reputation (because of being ineffective and oldschool), then I will be allowed to call all barrage-users exploiters and bad for hunter's reputation, too, right? Which gives at least all hunters a bad reputation, no matter from which side you look at them. Either they are bugusers/exploiters or ineffective/bad. Such a cool class.
Maybe hunters with induction-legacies just still have hope for a decent fix and true balance without having to rely on bugs? I think its quite sad to make them responsible for hunter's bad rep.

[MaxHunter]

I'm sorry if I have offended you, that was not my intention... I've been playing red since beta until u19 and now I'm on blue so I understand you. I prefer to play in red but dps is on blue so here I'm...
If I want to join raids I need to do as much dps and if I find a way to improve my poor dps I use it. I dont think to use erebor or aurochs set is an exploit, devs know it and they don't fix it.
I think sets are there and everyone can use it and mix it.
I think more similar to an exploit is to use Buffvars instead of use 2 pieces from a set that gives you -1 focus...

[fuzz.]

You're misinformed, top hunters beat top rk's in ST DPS.

yeah i suppose with tdt-t2 gear, hunters might be able to outdps rks .
I think it was a simple miscommunication. Maybe i should not have use the term top hunters.
i was thinking along these lines
top end = 4 pel + 2 erebor + hilt + full ithelian/t8 supreme essences
elite = 4 tdt-t2 set + 2 erebor + hilt + full tempered essences (+ gold cuff + class item)

now that that is cleared up, would u still say that top end hunters would outdps rks with similar kind of gear ?
considering that yellow mini buffs & lm debuffs are more beneficial to fire rk.

im sure the elite would be able to.

Now this brings up a catch 22,
need tdt t2 gear to beat rk ,but cant do tdt t2, cause u cant beat rk dps significantly enough to justify ur spot. By this i mean, you cant do anything but dps, no support what so ever.

now if iam still mis informed, please help me out. what am i missing ?

[MaxHunter]

...need tdt t2 gear to beat rk ,but cant do tdt t2, cause u cant beat rk dps significantly enough to justify ur spot. By this i mean, you cant do anything but dps, no support what so ever...

Finally I created a RK to join ToDT and now I can get pieces for my hunter....

[Mukor]

Let´s say nearly no support ID1 and 3 you can go before starting on yellow and put down the triple trap on the field, go back to blue, after starting the boss activates the trap and have +15% inc dmg for a minute. But well this is nothing compared to 2 (pre)rezzes the rk have.

[7h3C47]

Now this brings up a catch 22,
need tdt t2 gear to beat rk ,but cant do tdt t2, cause u cant beat rk dps significantly enough to justify ur spot. By this i mean, you cant do anything but dps, no support what so ever.

On paper, the current landscape makes getting an invite seem unlikely when you think about straight DPS comparison, but that's not always how it works in practice. Having a good reputation for knowing how to play your class, or being helpful, or having good judgement and working knowledge of the raid mechanics etc.-- those are things that justify your spot. Another one that I've personally been noticing a lot recently is that some of these monster DPS RKs die too easily, and a dead RK does 0 DPS...not to mention wastes in combat rezes and the healer's time and so on. Being the best player you can be, and best raid member you can be (regardless of class) still counts for something.

[fuzz.]

On paper, the current landscape makes getting an invite seem unlikely when you think about straight DPS comparison, but that's not always how it works in practice. Having a good reputation for knowing how to play your class, or being helpful, or having good judgement and working knowledge of the raid mechanics etc.-- those are things that justify your spot. Another one that I've personally been noticing a lot recently is that some of these monster DPS RKs die too easily, and a dead RK does 0 DPS...not to mention wastes in combat rezes and the healer's time and so on. Being the best player you can be, and best raid member you can be (regardless of class) still counts for something.

I do agree with you, however this is not optimal. you need others to be worse than you in order to get a spot ? this is what i was talking about, given an option of equally geared and skilled hunter and rk , who do you think gets the nod ? regardless of friend status.

On my server i am able to join up almost any SS t2c, provided they are looking for dps, i even get invited several times a week to join someones run.
Its not the same with throne. there are practically no throne t2 runs advertised, if you are lucky you might see 1 in a month. when they are advertised, they arent interested in hunters.

Now i am speaking strictly from my servers perspective.
Initially it was impossible for me to join even SS t2c, but as more and more ppl started doing the runs, it became a bit easier. More ppl were willing to take a chance.
It was only about 1-2 months back that some kin got original challenger title. Also, you can only attempt the raid once a week, so ppl are not willing to take chances and want only the best possible setup, which does not really include hunters.
Probably once the ppl on my server are confident enough to start pug -ing tdt t2 , things might change. but it seems this is gonna take a while .
In the mean time, i think its time to roll another toon, chances are that might be a faster way to get the gear.

[DKenny]

Yes, I agree that is the key. While hunters might be close enough to get invited sometimes, they still need an additional edge, such as superior player skill / reputation, to actually be preferred. Would you take 4 fire RKs as dps? Sure, probably. Would you take 4 hunters in their place? No way. You might displace 1 or 2 RKs to make room for hunters, depending, but other skills, such as (pre)rez still weigh to heavily in favour of the RK.

[siipperi]

You guys seriously think you get geared by real pugging (not raid group backup). No matter of class thats going to take extremely long time... Join a raid group and stop whining.

[Theomur]

Thats not accurate.
A top end geared hunter moght do better dps than an average rk , against an equally geared rk, i doubt hunter stand a chance. Unless they are using auroch set.
when considering normally geared hunter vs normally geared rk, its not even close.

I'm in a minmax guild with math freaks and people spending 100% of their time squeezing the best out their classes and focusing on speedruns etc... top end Hunters will on average do better DPS than absolute top end RK's. I still need 1 more armour piece to get the 4-piece TDT set and I already parse about 5% better on average than the best RK's around without that set. There's just a lot more to hunter minmaxing than people think. As I've said for years: the hunter class is one of the most difficult classes to master in Lotro. (People just think it's easy because they don't go beyond pewpew buttonsmashing)

Plus the hunter needs a dedicated LM power battery to maintain the high dps whereas the RK does not. Then of course there's RK (pre)rez et al.

I don't ever 'need' LM power heals at any point. Stack rejuvies, bro! Always does the trick for me.

A competent minmax hunter will out-dps the best RK's in most situations, have better mitigations&avoids and the ability to move when DPS'ing (big asset when taking out Oozings at Unbroken or when fighting mumakil). They're also independent on power management when stacking tomes of fate, celebrant pots and rejuvies, equipping essence of powerful draw, traiting for skill power returns and using a power cost reducing pocket & legacy.

[DKenny]

....I don't ever 'need' LM power heals at any point. Stack rejuvies, bro! Always does the trick for me.

A competent minmax hunter will out-dps the best RK's in most situations, have better mitigations&avoids and the ability to move when DPS'ing (big asset when taking out Oozings at Unbroken or when fighting mumakil). They're also independent on power management when stacking tomes of fate, celebrant pots and rejuvies, equipping essence of powerful draw, traiting for skill power returns and using a power cost reducing pocket & legacy.

I haven't gotten around to completely redoing the ILI legacies (legacy replacement scrolls you know). I can see how the focus power legacy, on top of the others (powerful draw a no brainer now) would make a big difference. Needed the precision and barrage legacies on the melee weapons first though. It might actually be cheaper to make a new ILI bow with the new legacies required. Of course I suppose I could always keep the old one to do the burn hot swappy trick (exploit? ). Still wondering if they might do other changes / nerfs (as some are calling for) making the entire project a waste of time and resources though.

[fuzz.]

I'm in a minmax guild with math freaks and people spending 100% of their time squeezing the best out their classes and focusing on speedruns etc... top end Hunters will on average do better DPS than absolute top end RK's. I still need 1 more armour piece to get the 4-piece TDT set and I already parse about 5% better on average than the best RK's around without that set. There's just a lot more to hunter minmaxing than people think. As I've said for years: the hunter class is one of the most difficult classes to master in Lotro. (People just think it's easy because they don't go beyond pewpew buttonsmashing)



I don't ever 'need' LM power heals at any point. Stack rejuvies, bro! Always does the trick for me.

A competent minmax hunter will out-dps the best RK's in most situations, have better mitigations&avoids and the ability to move when DPS'ing (big asset when taking out Oozings at Unbroken or when fighting mumakil). They're also independent on power management when stacking tomes of fate, celebrant pots and rejuvies, equipping essence of powerful draw, traiting for skill power returns and using a power cost reducing pocket & legacy.

i Stated clearly that you need a dedicated LM for auroch set.
With power cost legacy, tome, hunters essence , 1k+ fate i can manage power for approximately 1.5-2 minutes without any outside buffs. using rejuvenation pots is not really an option regularly. i can use them in a bind but definitely cant use them like normal power pots.

please enlighten me on what it is you are doing to out dps the best rks . i would like to learn .

[Kander]

i Stated clearly that you need a dedicated LM for auroch set.
With power cost legacy, tome, hunters essence , 1k+ fate i can manage power for approximately 1.5-2 minutes without any outside buffs. using rejuvenation pots is not really an option regularly. i can use them in a bind but definitely cant use them like normal power pots.

please enlighten me on what it is you are doing to out dps the best rks . i would like to learn .

If you can sustain your power for 2 minutes on your own without using rejuvenation pots you certainly are not spamming barrage (60+60+60) properly cause on my current build: 1.1k fate with food and also regen food- max I can sustain my power (if I'm lucky with having power cost essence 100%uptime) is around 1 minute.

[Theomur]

i Stated clearly that you need a dedicated LM for auroch set.
With power cost legacy, tome, hunters essence , 1k+ fate i can manage power for approximately 1.5-2 minutes without any outside buffs. using rejuvenation pots is not really an option regularly. i can use them in a bind but definitely cant use them like normal power pots.

please enlighten me on what it is you are doing to out dps the best rks . i would like to learn .

The power management thing was a reply to DKenny, not to your comments.

But to answer that question, I think I don't need to add much more than what I explained in my latest video, I'd only add that 'not messing up' and adopting the right reflexes upon procs is well improved by parsing a couple of hours every week on dummies, turtle and RT's for sheer practice:

[Farasilion]

using rejuvenation pots is not really an option regularly. i can use them in a bind but definitely cant use them like normal power pots.

Why not? It is just 500s-2g per click while one can make 100g a day selling empowerment scrolls.

please enlighten me on what it is you are doing to out dps the best rks . i would like to learn .

Burn hot with swap - focus - barrage - insta cast skill ( insta heart seeker > blood arrow > pen shot) - barr - some Indra skills until Barr change to t3 - Barr - insta - Barr - insta - Barr...... pop focus pot, ic or QS (only when you have to), eat chips with right hand when not clicking pots to prevent falling asleep etc etc.

[fuzz.]

If you can sustain your power for 2 minutes on your own without using rejuvenation pots you certainly are not spamming barrage (60+60+60) properly cause on my current build: 1.1k fate with food and also regen food- max I can sustain my power (if I'm lucky with having power cost essence 100%uptime) is around 1 minute.

I use a swap piece with IC power restore legacy, normal power pot, beneath notice(i know its insignificant, but everything helps)

Why not? It is just 500s-2g per click while one can make 100g a day selling empowerment scrolls.



Burn hot with swap - focus - barrage - insta cast skill ( insta heart seeker > blood arrow > pen shot) - barr - some Indra skills until Barr change to t3 - Barr - insta - Barr - insta - Barr...... pop focus pot, ic or QS (only when you have to), eat chips with right hand when not clicking pots to prevent falling asleep etc etc.

Not on my server, unfortunately. they want atleast 5g or even closer to 10g per pot. I just cannot justify spending 50-100g per boss fight.
and that is pretty much what my rotation is like, no HS.

The power management thing was a reply to DKenny, not to your comments.

But to answer that question, I think I don't need to add much more than what I explained in my latest video, I'd only add that 'not messing up' and adopting the right reflexes upon procs is well improved by parsing a couple of hours every week on dummies, turtle and RT's for sheer practice:

My bad on that.!
ill check out the video .
I do spend atleast 5-6 hrs worth of time every week with the galtrev training dummies. Just to practice.

[warden37]

I dont understand why most of you who use blue line cant or dont want to asimilate, that the line is BROKEN. Not worth to go blue since the only skill that do dmg is barrage. Try to kill a mob WITHOUT using barrage, especialy on low lvl.It takes more time, then kill a mob in red or yellow line. So if you guys want to relly only on one skill to do dmg go for it, but for me the blue needs editing. Not a good line for hunter, but that is my humble opinion
Forgot to mention upshot-the highest dmg dealer skill in red line. On full focus it do a tremendous amount of dmg.

[Rimenuir]

Forgot to mention upshot-the highest dmg dealer skill in red line. On full focus it do a tremendous amount of dmg.

The problem with red line is when they buffed hunters, they only buffed focus skills, not induction skills. In Blue, you can constantly have focus with precision stance traits, and using quick inductions (barbed arrow, quick shot). In red, you are constantly building focus. If/when the devs look at the hunter again, they should fix the induction damage to make red a useful line again.

I'm not gonna argue that upshot is insane, I love the skill, but to me its not worth sacrificing dps in my main focus skills (barrage, pen shot, blood arrow) for 1 skill that I use at full focus...

[DKenny]

I dont understand why most of you who use blue line cant or dont want to asimilate, that the line is BROKEN. Not worth to go blue since the only skill that do dmg is barrage. Try to kill a mob WITHOUT using barrage, especialy on low lvl.It takes more time, then kill a mob in red or yellow line. So if you guys want to relly only on one skill to do dmg go for it, but for me the blue needs editing. Not a good line for hunter, but that is my humble opinion
Forgot to mention upshot-the highest dmg dealer skill in red line. On full focus it do a tremendous amount of dmg.

Pretty much completely wrong. While barrage does the most damage, other skills are significant contributors to overall damage, and you pretty much must use them while tiering up barrage. At low level other skills are completely viable as well. In fact, for much of landscape at low level barrage is inefficient, because the damage at higher tiers is excessive and its power cost is higher. I often just use pen shot at low level for those reasons. Upshot is underwhelming considering it consumes up to 9 focus. That is one area where red should definitely be buffed, because consuming 9 focus, Upshot should be the biggest hitting skill by far, and it isn't.

[Laubgaenger]

Another one that I've personally been noticing a lot recently is that some of these monster DPS RKs die too easily, and a dead RK does 0 DPS...

Sorry, that is not true, the Dots ticks again and again.

please enlighten me on what it is you are doing to out dps the best rks . i would like to learn .

Me too !!!