Currently nonscaling Instance at level cap?

[-RF-]

Some of the larger old instances (like Carn Dûm, but also the old Moria instances) are currently not scalable. From what people said ingame this is because it would be way too much work to make these scalable. So I wondered if there could be some way to make them at least playable at caplevel, which would mean that one can choose wheter to play e.g. Carn Dûm either at level 50 or 105 (oder 110 or whatever the Caplevel is at the time).

[ertr]

Some of the larger old instances (like Carn Dûm, but also the old Moria instances) are currently not scalable. From what people said ingame this is because it would be way too much work to make these scalable. So I wondered if there could be some way to make them at least playable at caplevel, which would mean that one can choose wheter to play e.g. Carn Dûm either at level 50 or 105 (oder 110 or whatever the Caplevel is at the time).

I suspect that would involve nearly as much work as making them fully scalable, so likely not.
Besides, scaling works less than perfect, so when making instances scalable they will be different from their non-scalable incarnations even when run at the same level.
Personally I would prefer that the old non-scalable instances that still exist be left alone. They are mostly very good instances and making them scalable would lose some of that.

[Macroscian]

I suspect that would involve nearly as much work as making them fully scalable, so likely not.
Besides, scaling works less than perfect, so when making instances scalable they will be different from their non-scalable incarnations even when run at the same level.
Personally I would prefer that the old non-scalable instances that still exist be left alone. They are mostly very good instances and making them scalable would lose some of that.

To add to this, I don't think *any* of the scaling instances should have challenges only at current cap. Challenge deeds in old content should not become impossible for new alts and some of the old loot that was removed to make room for scaling loot would be excellent to have back in the game if you run the stuff at the original level. As an example, some of the Mirk stuff turned absurdly hard. Imagine Vile Maw at 105

[-RF-]

I did not suggest to change to old (currently nonscalabla) instances from how they are at their current level to _scalable_, I suggested to add only one other level at which they can be played - level cap, currently 105. I think that does not create as much work as making an instance completely scalable.

[siipperi]

No, No lvl 50 instance or raid would be even remotely interesting on the level cap. All fights are just tank and spank without real mechanics. To make them interesting it would require to design bosses from ground up. I rather have new instances.
Lvl 60 would work a bit better but I rather have new instances, ran those hundreds of times.

To add to this, I don't think *any* of the scaling instances should have challenges only at current cap. Challenge deeds in old content should not become impossible for new alts and some of the old loot that was removed to make room for scaling loot would be excellent to have back in the game if you run the stuff at the original level. As an example, some of the Mirk stuff turned absurdly hard. Imagine Vile Maw at 105

Cm deed should for certain be on the level cap. Its not a charity and earning titles of scaled instances bellow character level is total farce.
Also mirkwood instances are now way easier than back then on the cap.

[Macroscian]

No, No lvl 50 instance or raid would be even remotely interesting on the level cap. All fights are just tank and spank without real mechanics. To make them interesting it would require to design bosses from ground up. I rather have new instances.
Lvl 60 would work a bit better but I rather have new instances, ran those hundreds of times.



Cm deed should for certain be on the level cap. Its not a charity and earning titles of scaled instances bellow character level is total farce.
Also mirkwood instances are now way easier than back then on the cap.

How do you mean? If it's double the effort now compared to when it was the current cap content and if the old loot from cap85 wasn't washed away by the generic scaled junk looking the same everywhere, no harm done to have some of that old great-looking loot back? Also, I don't see why you (or I who did *all* old deeds on-level while it was current content) should need to smother the fun for any who did not happen to play Mirk while Mirk was cap. Let them get the challenges done in the old areas.

As you yourself vehemently state elsewhere, it's just titles.

[siipperi]

How do you mean? If it's double the effort now compared to when it was the current cap content and if the old loot from cap85 wasn't washed away by the generic scaled junk looking the same everywhere, no harm done to have some of that old great-looking loot back? Also, I don't see why you (or I who did *all* old deeds on-level while it was current content) should need to smother the fun for any who did not happen to play Mirk while Mirk was cap. Let them get the challenges done in the old areas.

As you yourself vehemently state elsewhere, it's just titles.

To take 65 cap scaled instances as an example, earning those Cm titles were a bit like now earning throne cm titles. You can't just say that it wasn't an effort to earn those titles back then and say how much effort those are now. Sure rewards aren't ideal now, but considering difficulty level it's like night and day difference these days and you can just do world pug and get T2CM titles done, which wasn't as much feasible back then. If one would be able to scale them down to 65 and get CM title it would be total farce, or earn the CM title as 65lvl with help of 105 would be as much of a farce. If players want to earn titles of CM, they should always be done on that current level cap.


Titles that should be earned. Not given for free.

[ertr]

I did not suggest to change to old (currently nonscalabla) instances from how they are at their current level to _scalable_, I suggested to add only one other level at which they can be played - level cap, currently 105. I think that does not create as much work as making an instance completely scalable.

I understood perfectly what you meant, but like I said - that would probably involve nearly as much work as making it fully scalable, and would also have all the disadvantages of scaled instances without having all of the advantages.

[siipperi]

I understood perfectly what you meant, but like I said - that would probably involve nearly as much work as making it fully scalable, and would also have all the disadvantages of scaled instances without having all of the advantages.

Basically they need to do all from ground up but visuals. And considering it seems devs are on same thinking level as me on these cases. You can't make interesting instance mechanics from mechanics that were relevant 10 years ago, because class have advantaged so much since those days. There needs to be added stuff to make it truly work on this level cap, thus for instance boss designer this means basically same workload as new instance would. Otherwise these would be just morale sponges a bit like GB instances are now (and remind here GB was reworked so it's more complex than originally it was from boss mechanics).
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Return of Angmar with new rise. But existing mechanics are just pure dps races for our current classes and class powers. Like what interesting fight there is in CD that limits pure dps race on our current classes? Nothing, and even less so in Uru or BG. Those instances were designed for very limited class power and very long cooldowns on skills. When you have classes that are way more powerful and way more shorter on their cooldowns those simply doesn't work. And compensating this difficulty to make bosses hit 20-30k hits per is simply bad boss design and definition of tank/spank that nobody wants to see.

[BotLike]

Some of the larger old instances (like Carn Dûm, but also the old Moria instances) are currently not scalable. From what people said ingame this is because it would be way too much work to make these scalable. So I wondered if there could be some way to make them at least playable at caplevel, which would mean that one can choose wheter to play e.g. Carn Dûm either at level 50 or 105 (oder 110 or whatever the Caplevel is at the time).

Depends on how much work that would be.
As for usual instance scaling , its a big no from me.
I never liked how other instances scaled , they are just sad nowadays , all mechanics are pretty much skipped by dps and extra survivability.
As others said , new instances is my n1 desire.

[BigLotroFan]

I would like this too. I'm unfamiliar with how the tools work. As others said it might be the same amount of work as doing a scaling version of it. But on the off chance that they can simply do a copy/paste and change monster levels then please do Urugarth was my favorite instance.


Also, I wish they would leave the old non-scaled versions of the instances intact so they could still be run. Some of the items had nice cosmetics that can no longer be acquired in game.