Common sense doesn't apply to SSG

[daedalusAI]

It's mind-blowing that SSG as a company cares nothing for the state of their game or the concerns of their customers.

Beorning as a class once released has barely been touched since then:
- You can override your own bleeds
- as a jack-of-all-trades class you're worse than every other class out there
- your channel abilities get interrupted out of nowhere
- etc.
-> there are multiple big threads listing every issue with beorning and no one cares

Several trait trees are utterly trash:
- yellow warden: unlike blue/red barely any dots, RNG bleeds and the tree itself is devoid of anything remotely useful
- blue burg: you are limited to 1 - ONE - gamble as your whole class mechanic and you can override that ONE gamble with your other types of gambles. In the meanwhile a red warden or rk can output and maintain several dots
-> no response as to why those trait trees are so abysmal - or in the bigger picture why every tree only offers a few passives/abilities worth the point invested while the rest is just a 1% increase of something and thus rather pointless

QoL and other stuff:
- this ancient LI system and you have to meld relics by hand - and if you go too fast you get the famous "Too many requests" message -> an auto-combine button would be too much common sense
- have the legacies even be reworked since the release of the LI system? Most of my beorning ones are trash as if someone was pressed to come up with pointless legacies
- endless grind to get your first age LI and the legacies to max level
- channeling an ability even though your targeted enemy already died but you still fully channel it just to have the cast interrupted at the end <- really love that one
- there are certain types of enemies that my pets won't attack on their own even when set to aggressive mode
- featured instance finder only for lvl 100+ - so everyone below that threshold either doesn't play dungeons or you have to wait while spamming /lff
- etc.

Dev-tracker:
https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/post...ker=devtracker
A whole week worth of blue posts with nothing but banter or announcements. The only real thing was the paypal issue.
LOL. It seems the game is running flawlessly on the level of witcher 3 or another AAA title.

My other favorite topic is this CM:
- while browsing twitch the other day for something to watch I went to lotrostreams for a second and I though I saw cordovan streaming: the game is in shambles, the customers are venting their anger and frustration on the forums while SSG couldn't care less - but your community manager has all the time in the world to stream lotro
- made another thread about him a while ago questioning his self-proclaimed role of being the link between SSG and the playerbase but as expected there was no response
- I among more other posters who speak their mind and/or are criticizing SSG are being shown what he actually does when he's not participating in banter or posting an announcement: he's busy upholding the forum rules while throwing infractions left and right

TL;DR:
Common sense is nowhere to be found.
SSG gets issues served on a silver platter on this forum and you have to be really detached from reality to not accept something like that.

I'd really like to visit SSG for 1 day to see what they're actually doing during a day and what a kind of person you have to be to ignore reality and live in a dreamworld.

[siipperi]

As said in other thread. Yellow line has some of the best traits warden has.

[Amorey]

bla bla bla.....a dreamworld.

It is refreshing to see you know what your thread is all about. Obviously it is Saturday and you know you will have a good run with this post. Contrary to your OP I think SSG has lots of common sense, especially when it comes to dealing with you, after all “Better to shun the bait than struggle in the snare.” When it comes to criticism to be destructive is not the same as to be constructive . You are not approaching your critique constructively, all you do is to attack the CM and make long lists of things 'you' disapprove off. Maybe you should try an other approach

[BangoTwinkletoes]

IB4TL!!!!!

Edit - seriously though, daedalusAI - there's no point venting your anger in this way as it won't change anything.

[Arnenna]

IB4TL!!!!!

Edit - seriously though, daedalusAI - there's no point venting your anger in this way as it won't change anything.

Indeed, but also, staying reserved, seems to generate nothing, happily raising constructive threads - also yields nada, and even voting with the wallet, doesn't seem to be enough to generate a sneeze about brought up issues.

I'd really like to know when U20.1 is due, and what it's bringing. Seems like a reasonable and well asked question, but I haven't asked it, because right now, it seems like the team are on the moon.

[Macroscian]

So a couple of trait trees are not working out for you? Do you have any alternatives?
Are you for real about the bear stuff? Everyone I chat with in the game about them go 'man, bears are op'.
What do YOU think a community manager does...coding?

OK for venting - I am all about venting and I love my game with a good whine thankyouverymuch- but this reads as empty nothing.

[siipperi]

So a couple of trait trees are not working out for you? Do you have any alternatives?
Are you for real about the bear stuff? Everyone I chat with in the game about them go 'man, bears are op'.
What do YOU think a community manager does...coding?

OK for venting - I am all about venting and I love my game with a good whine thankyouverymuch- but this reads as empty nothing.

You don't chat with very bright individuals do you? Beornings are very good ST tanks and maybe 1/2nd best off tank but their group tanking lacks, even if they have unlimited aggro numbers, for different reasons. Their DPS is meh and healing is meh while they are capable of healing whole raid as one bear it's so much harder and clunkier than on minstrel.

[Macdui]

I've watched some of the official streams. I lack the narcissistic tendencies to do it myself.

There are a few, very few, who seem to know what they are doing playing LOTRO.

A large proportion of them are lacking game knowledge and skills and these streamers are chosen by SSG to promote the game and it must reflect what type of players SSG wants to attract to the game.

I now look at the streams to id peeps I rather not end up in a pug with. Those that open up a map to see where the group is gathering and ride off in the wrong direction and pick flowers on the way leaving the group to wonder what they are doing, gabbing to their handful of followers. I'm guessing they all follow each other and watch each other just to stack up the numbers.

I guess the core that SSG needs to play LOTRO are Middle-earth SIMS players who have no complaints because they have little enough understanding of the game mechanics they can have no opinion. How many post/read here when their medium of choice is their vlogs?

As to +Cord on line our CM: One recent comment was about the high damage output of Barrarge hunters (possibly from a creep player maybe?). Our "finger on the pulse community manager" seemed to not be aware of this phenomenon and replied with the stock "we can certainly look into that".

How is it that he was unaware of the barrage hunter. I came back to the game from 6 months away just to see how it was playing!

What is more worrying is that if they are so unaware of day to day game play is that they can react to any ill informed /bug or comment and code in changes that destroy or make the class totally OP.

I have enough different capped characters that one or other should be playable whatever they might do inadvertently to the others.

Mac

[Amorey]

Of course venting feels good because , no matter what SSG does, they will never please every single player out there. There are many things I love in game and there are things I really dislike, some of the girding is truly silly for example, but I also know it is important for me to remember LOTRO is what Turbine and now SSG created. It is their vision, their plans, their passion. Of course it is not always perfect but it took years and years of work and dedication , that needs to be respected. If some players do not like aspects of the game they have choices. They can try open up some constructive criticism here on the forum to see if it would be possible to make some changes or they can just move on to greener pastures. What kind of unhappy player you chose to be is up to you. Also it is unrealistic to expect the developers to make running commentaries on the game, especially on game mechanics....they never/rarely do on any game forums for obvious reasons.

[Mukor]

Hunter, guards champs etc all overwrite their own bleedings.Why should it different on the beo?

[Nymphonic]

I dunno. You guys almost never, ever hear me complain. However, I'm tired of the store taking me to an external browser. That gets old.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

I'm sure they are "passionate" about their work - though that is such an overused word nowadays that one could say I am passionate about typing stuff with this keyboard I use. However, I sense there is a degree of nervousness within SSG atm. I can't put my finger of what's causing it, but if one looks back to when Viv was the Exec Prod, the level of communication and the willingness for the blues to present their views on the feedback we give them has been replaced by a deafening silence. The exact opposite should be happening - without the shackles of WB to weigh them down, we should have blues posting daily on their thoughts around specific issues. But there's nothing, and that tells me all is not well. In some respects I've almost been wishing for a return of the Turbine/WB days of 2014 & 2015 - at least they knew we were here

Anyhow, back to passion - this is how devs respond when they are invested in the right outcomes -

The question : https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3815486?page=1

The response : https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3815486?page=2

Just imagine us getting this level of feedback on a question regarding the future of Beornings!

Of course it could have been a planted question, but it still makes for compelling reading.

Anyhow, it's too nice a day to be sitting in doors. Have fun peeps!

[soltasword]

I think the OP was right about common sense not applying to SSG/Turbine. Just take a look at crafting. It was pretty much abandoned after level 95. We have been asking for a non essence crafting update for years now and still nothing. Even SSG/Turbine themselves said crafting was in need of an update and still there has been no update. Crafting should have gotten an update when update 18 came out. Did we get one, NO. They knew then ( and even before then ) that we were unhappy about not getting any non essence crafting update. So they said, update 19. Well, that came and went and still NO update to crafting. Now we just had update 20 and did we see any kind of update to crafting that would give us any kind of new gear we have been waiting for since level 95, absolutely not.

So does common sense exist at SSG, not even close. Do they listen to their player base, ABSOLUTELY NOT. Do they care for their player base, ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO.

I see people come to these threads and say all the time, you need to be positive and have constructive criticism. The problem with that is that there has been a lot of constructive criticism given and it has all but been completely ignored. It is just people are fed up. The issues persist, updates that SSG/Turbine said was needed are ignored, and people are just tired of it. They want to continue playing because they enjoy the game but are fed up with being ignored all the time and seeing issues that never seem to ever get fixed.

[Arnenna]

I'm sure they are "passionate" about their work - though that is such an overused word nowadays that one could say I am passionate about typing stuff with this keyboard I use. However, I sense there is a degree of nervousness within SSG atm. I can't put my finger of what's causing it, but if one looks back to when Viv was the Exec Prod, the level of communication and the willingness for the blues to present their views on the feedback we give them has been replaced by a deafening silence. The exact opposite should be happening - without the shackles of WB to weigh them down, we should have blues posting daily on their thoughts around specific issues. But there's nothing, and that tells me all is not well. In some respects I've almost been wishing for a return of the Turbine/WB days of 2014 & 2015 - at least they knew we were here

Anyhow, back to passion - this is how devs respond when they are invested in the right outcomes -

The question : https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3815486?page=1

The response : https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3815486?page=2

Just imagine us getting this level of feedback on a question regarding the future of Beornings!

Of course it could have been a planted question, but it still makes for compelling reading.

Anyhow, it's too nice a day to be sitting in doors. Have fun peeps!

I hear you. The current level of silence is eerie, and it's causing uncertainty (in me at least). I've never seen the responses so lacking, and I've seen some pretty limp times over the years - but nothing like this. The last time it got close to "this" quiet (but still wasn't this quiet), we all got a big surprise and a change of hands on the steering wheel. So ,yeah, it's making me feel as if all is not well too. I'm still trying to decide whether to renew or not, but given this silent treatment, I'd like to know two things first. 1. What's U20.1 bringing in way of the issues plastered all over the forum, unanswered? 2. Is there another big surprise coming?

[Palenen]

The WB really 'screwed the pooch' so to speak. I tend to not want to blame programmers but the Directors. What the game has seen since just goes to prove that the original devs should always remain throughout the life of the mmo. An opinion.

[kickman77]

Hmmm lets see

makes forum post that does have some legit issues in it while at same time bashes an employee of the company (against the rules), tell an emplotyee of the company how to do their job (against the rules) and discusses moderation (against the ruies)...

Than gets upset when his post is moderated, he gets infracted or banned and goes on "other forum" to complain about evil CM

Is Cord the New Sapience?

Like I said, dude has some valid issues that a lot of us have been mentioning for a while now. But IMO that type of post is not going to get changes made (sadly at this point I dont think anything will)

Turbine / SSG amaze me because they had the biggest fantasy IP which should have been the #1 MMO in the world. But as mentioned, poor direction, cash grabbing producers and wb all killed that quickly. We now have a husk and only dream of what could have been

[Sheaezra]

IB4TL!!!!!

Edit - seriously though, daedalusAI - there's no point venting your anger in this way as it won't change anything.

Catharsis is a good thing. Plus certain following replies provide an entertainment factor that's become scarce.

[Mukor]

I think the OP was right about common sense not applying to SSG/Turbine. Just take a look at crafting. It was pretty much abandoned after level 95. We have been asking for a non essence crafting update for years now and still nothing. Even SSG/Turbine themselves said crafting was in need of an update and still there has been no update. Crafting should have gotten an update when update 18 came out. Did we get one, NO. They knew then ( and even before then ) that we were unhappy about not getting any non essence crafting update. So they said, update 19. Well, that came and went and still NO update to crafting. Now we just had update 20 and did we see any kind of update to crafting that would give us any kind of new gear we have been waiting for since level 95, absolutely not.

So does common sense exist at SSG, not even close. Do they listen to their player base, ABSOLUTELY NOT. Do they care for their player base, ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO.

I see people come to these threads and say all the time, you need to be positive and have constructive criticism. The problem with that is that there has been a lot of constructive criticism given and it has all but been completely ignored. It is just people are fed up. The issues persist, updates that SSG/Turbine said was needed are ignored, and people are just tired of it. They want to continue playing because they enjoy the game but are fed up with being ignored all the time and seeing issues that never seem to ever get fixed.

U20 is all voer crafting, you need to craft to get repitems and after beeing full reputated you have to use this repitems, wich you get from crafting, for trading to jewls and offhands.
Luckily there are other ways to get the repitems but the mainway is crafting.
And by the way crafting should never give the best equip, this have to be come out of raids t2c

[Arnenna]

U20 is all voer crafting, you need to craft to get repitems and after beeing full reputated you have to use this repitems, wich you get from crafting, for trading to jewls and offhands.
Luckily there are other ways to get the repitems but the mainway is crafting.
And by the way crafting should never give the best equip, this have to be come out of raids t2c

Yes, you completely missed the point the poster made. People wanted, and asked for a non essence crafting update. An update that followed traditional crafting that has been here for years. It's yet another reinvention of the wheel, like BB's were. Much like people wanted to get traditional style raids instead of the big battles that they brought. If the new crafted rep system is what SSG consider a crafting update of any sort, they should be prepared for some disappointment if they think people will enjoy it. It's not a crafting update, it's a grind system, that made just another part of the game too grindy (actually two parts - rep and crafting). At the same time, they tripled the cost of speeding up the rep grind, and made a large chunk of crafters seriously disadvantaged due to their chosen profession. That's not what I call a crafting update. I'd call it a recipe for disaster when it puts off a vast majority of players and only serves any real use to people who farm high mark yields, own an army of crafters (I fit both those), or farm unintended mistakes before nerf day.

[Happychappy]

So a couple of trait trees are not working out for you? Do you have any alternatives?
Are you for real about the bear stuff? Everyone I chat with in the game about them go 'man, bears are op'.
What do YOU think a community manager does...coding?

OK for venting - I am all about venting and I love my game with a good whine thankyouverymuch- but this reads as empty nothing.

The Beorning is far from OP. Maybe you are talking to low level beornings where they are still powerful. But a Lm pet will one shot mobs at low level too, they don't at higher levels.
A beorning may me fairly sturdy and wear a tough mob down, but a hunter would just nuke it down in less than half the time and walk away unscathed lol.

They really do need to start fixing the classes/bugs better than they are, rather than concentrating on a new Race (high Elf), that no one asked for or needs.

The developers need to spend their development time more wisely!

[Willj119]

I dunno. You guys almost never, ever hear me complain. However, I'm tired of the store taking me to an external browser. That gets old.

Personally I quite like the store opening externally - is much more responsive than the in game version. Would be nice to see this continue as an option.

[Findun]

[...]
And by the way crafting should never give the best equip, this have to be come out of raids t2c

May be a little OT, but I agree. The amount of golden shiny bling blings u20 just hands out to right and left casuals is just unacceptable imho. It just completly destroys the very essence of an mmo, but developers nowadays just don't understand the fact that giving out shinies for everyone without even accomplishing something in the long run will hurt and kill any game.

[Mukor]

Yes, you completely missed the point the poster made. People wanted, and asked for a non essence crafting update. An update that followed traditional crafting that has been here for years. It's yet another reinvention of the wheel, like BB's were. Much like people wanted to get traditional style raids instead of the big battles that they brought. If the new crafted rep system is what SSG consider a crafting update of any sort, they should be prepared for some disappointment if they think people will enjoy it. It's not a crafting update, it's a grind system, that made just another part of the game too grindy (actually two parts - rep and crafting). At the same time, they tripled the cost of speeding up the rep grind, and made a large chunk of crafters seriously disadvantaged due to their chosen profession. That's not what I call a crafting update. I'd call it a recipe for disaster when it puts off a vast majority of players and only serves any real use to people who farm high mark yields, own an army of crafters (I fit both those), or farm unintended mistakes before nerf day.

There isnoway back to non essence gear. you will have give 2000 migth or 4000 morale per piece to get the same power per piece and even then the non essence gear will limit the player in their freedom of choice for combination.
The essence system is a good system and very easy too in wich everyone can be as he want.It´s just to be cared of caps and after that youare free to choose wich way you want to go.
If this is take there will be a much bigger cry as for non essence gear. Only solution would be a complete new system wich give us the free choice of stats and takes the need of grind for essences.
the biggest problem of the essence system is that the players aren´t familar since beginning with it, would we have startin Bree with this gear nobody would asked after something else.

[wispsong]

Yes, you completely missed the point the poster made. People wanted, and asked for a non essence crafting update. An update that followed traditional crafting that has been here for years. It's yet another reinvention of the wheel, like BB's were. Much like people wanted to get traditional style raids instead of the big battles that they brought. If the new crafted rep system is what SSG consider a crafting update of any sort, they should be prepared for some disappointment if they think people will enjoy it. It's not a crafting update, it's a grind system, that made just another part of the game too grindy (actually two parts - rep and crafting). At the same time, they tripled the cost of speeding up the rep grind, and made a large chunk of crafters seriously disadvantaged due to their chosen profession. That's not what I call a crafting update.

This. They have complicated getting reputation to call this a "crafting update". But it is not. Sure, we had items to craft for reputations before but they were not the main source. The main source for reputation has always been questing and /or item drops. It would have been far better to just have the Host of the West reputation faction and let us buy one time recipes for second best to raid items without essence slots. Or just skip crafting again and barter the items for Host of the West currency. This is a overly complicated system that can become very frustrating due to the on/off logging to get all profession alts to do the daily/weekly, the lack of mats for some professions, the need of flower picking for the journals, the RNG for additional recipes (I get most for cook who I can't get mats for in solo landscape), feeling the need for alt professions because I can't get anywhere with just my main.....

[siipperi]

Personally I quite like the store opening externally - is much more responsive than the in game version. Would be nice to see this continue as an option.

+1 as an option.