Freep bugged critical hit chance

[Hurtful]

For those who haven't been made aware of the issue, there have been some reports of freeps producing significantly lower critical and devastating critical hit chance percentages on creeps since the update to prep for Mordor. I've done an analysis of the issue in a thread in the gameplay discussion section of the forums. There's also a second thread in the same section in which others have posted their evidence. It seems creeps have been the beneficiary of some unintended buff while SSG attempted to prep for future content.

Here are the links:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...recent-updates
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Since-U20-1-2

I'd be very interested to see more physical evidence (not just anecdotal text, but actual combat analysis outputs) from both freeps and creeps alike. It seems as though at this point the issue is only affecting freep criticals, but it's worth looking into on creep side as well.

[Nouri]

I got pounced by a r5 warg the other night, and as after every 1v1, I checked my CA stats. My DPS was unbelievably, incredibly low, so I checked to make sure I had the right gear and LIs equipped.... nothing out-of-place there. Then I saw my crit percentages O.O I'm over-capped on crit, fighting a r5 warg, and my crit percentage was 12% over 19 attacks. I think my dev percentage was 2%. I thought it was just incredibly unlucky at the time, but it appears it may be more than just being unlucky. I saved the CA stats from the fight, and will post them when I get a chance.

[Starkorm]

I'd be very interested to see more physical evidence (not just anecdotal text, but actual combat analysis outputs) from both freeps and creeps alike.

Ethrildar stay out.

[dselden]

[Mukor]

Only the critchance for harmful skills or heals too?

[dselden]

Only the critchance for harmful skills or heals too?

Harmful skills on creeps and mobs over 105 only.

[Mukor]

Harmful skills on creeps and mobs over 105 only.

Ah k then it looks like they changed something with critdef. that it doesn´t reduce the magnitude only anymore but also the incoming crit chance.
I think it works the same with 105 and less mobs but they just have to little critdef that it wouldbe matter.
At least this would be an explanation of the current state.
Sadly I don´t know the incoming chance of my guard before 20.1.2 to compare it tothe current incoming.

[Hurtful]

Ah k then it looks like they changed something with critdef. that it doesn´t reduce the magnitude only anymore but also the incoming crit chance.
I think it works the same with 105 and less mobs but they just have to little critdef that it wouldbe matter.
At least this would be an explanation of the current state.
Sadly I don´t know the incoming chance of my guard before 20.1.2 to compare it tothe current incoming.

It does not appear to be anything related to crit defense. Crit defense has never affected critical hit chance, and based on my testing in the linked threads in the first post of this thread, it is not crit defense related even now.

[Mukor]

It does not appear to be anything related to crit defense. Crit defense has never affected critical hit chance, and based on my testing in the linked threads in the first post of this thread, it is not crit defense related even now.

Or it´s a new stat, like" crit-avoidance " or so which isn´t listed now.
I can´t believe that it is a bug especially it just appear in two situations.
And at least you lost ~3'% crits this could be coincidence or critdef affected it just in a strong degressive function.

[Nouri]

I got a few 1v1s in last night with a couple of skilled wargs. In the 4 fights I had, my highest crit percentage was 36.8. Crit/Dev percentages for the 4 fights were as follows: 33.3/8.3, 29.4/5.9, 35.7/0, 36.8/5.3. That's not terrible, but I usually average around 40% crits with my crit rating over-capped and crit buffs active during fights. It's a small sample, but those crit percentages would definitely be off a bit if the sample was larger.

[Hurtful]

I got a few 1v1s in last night with a couple of skilled wargs. In the 4 fights I had, my highest crit percentage was 36.8. Crit/Dev percentages for the 4 fights were as follows: 33.3/8.3, 29.4/5.9, 35.7/0, 36.8/5.3. That's not terrible, but I usually average around 40% crits with my crit rating over-capped and crit buffs active during fights. It's a small sample, but those crit percentages would definitely be off a bit if the sample was larger.

I think your numbers could skew people into thinking there isn't an issue. However, as you've noted in your post, in short burst fights (i.e., many 1v1s that are + or - 30ish sec) crit chance could vary considerably. Where you really see the issue is when fights are drawn out and/or testing with a large sample of attacks as several people have now done.

[Nouri]

I think your numbers could skew people into thinking there isn't an issue. However, as you've noted in your post, in short burst fights (i.e., many 1v1s that are + or - 30ish sec) crit chance could vary considerably. Where you really see the issue is when fights are drawn out and/or testing with a large sample of attacks as several people have now done.

Admittedly, the sample size is very small, and they were short, burst fights of about 30 seconds in length.

[Hurtful]

Or it´s a new stat, like" crit-avoidance " or so which isn´t listed now.
I can´t believe that it is a bug especially it just appear in two situations.
And at least you lost ~3'% crits this could be coincidence or critdef affected it just in a strong degressive function.

I am not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. The bugged crit appears to be present in all pvp situations of freeps damaging creeps. In my tests, I didn't lose 3% crits, I lost 4-5x that amount (regular crits) with a 40% reduction on regular critical hit chance, and a 50% reduction in devastating critical hit chance.

[Mukor]

I am not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. The bugged crit appears to be present in all pvp situations of freeps damaging creeps. In my tests, I didn't lose 3% crits, I lost 4-5x that amount (regular crits) with a 40% reduction on regular critical hit chance, and a 50% reduction in devastating critical hit chance.

I mean between your two tests, this without extra critdef (~21% cirt) and with max slotted(~18% crit).
And yeah it appears in pvp and vs 106+ mobs as you explained.
But this is strange, would it be a bug it would appear in all situations not just this two(pvp is one and 106+ is one).

[Hurtful]

I mean between your two tests, this without extra critdef (~21% cirt) and with max slotted(~18% crit).
And yeah it appears in pvp and vs 106+ mobs as you explained.
But this is strange, would it be a bug it would appear in all situations not just this two(pvp is one and 106+ is one).

But if you read closely, you'll see that I actually produced higher crit percentages when the foe slotted max crit defense, over minimum crit defense. If crit defense played a role, even a miniscule one, it would be the other way around. I think it's safe to rule out crit defense at this point.

[Mukor]

But if you read closely, you'll see that I actually produced higher crit percentages when the foe slotted max crit defense, over minimum crit defense. If crit defense played a role, even a miniscule one, it would be the other way around. I think it's safe to rule out crit defense at this point.

Ah k then I missreaded it or I just sort it wrong in my head cause otherwise there would be an explanation.
Well then it won´t be crit def but maybe they insert a new stat which creeps have already and the 106+ mobs too.
For a bug it´s to strange. affecting this both situations and all other not.
I think if not a community manager answers w´ve to wait until Mordor to see what we got.

[Nouri]

@Hurtful~
I want to applaud you and thank you for recognizing a bug and diagnosing its effects as quickly as you did. And, also, for the time you spent documenting and reporting the results of your testing. It sounds like you even got this issue into a discussion with the LOTRO Lords I realized you were an amazing burglar long ago, but you did an amazing job on this, as well.... thanks for helping get my crit fixed
~Cas

[Scet]

Not necessarily a bug, but a lack of updated description. They wrote directly in the release notes that there were up- and downgrades to "finesse, Block, Parry, Evade, critical chance, critical defence, mitigations, masteries, and resistance" + Vitality. But only for vitality the description was updated.

[dselden]

Not necessarily a bug, but a lack of updated description. They wrote directly in the release notes that there were up- and downgrades to "finesse, Block, Parry, Evade, critical chance, critical defence, mitigations, masteries, and resistance" + Vitality. But only for vitality the description was updated.

This only applies to mobs above 105 that spawn in Throne, which is another bug, and creeps, so this very likely is a bug.

[Mukor]

This only applies to mobs above 105 that spawn in Throne, which is another bug, and creeps, so this very likely is a bug.

Or wanted, it can´t be a coincident that only this two situations are affeted which are pre-changed for mordor.

[DrRabbitfoot]

Or wanted, it can´t be a coincident that only this two situations are affeted which are pre-changed for mordor.

Read the threads in the Gameplay Discussion forum. Cordovan confirmed it's a bug. And thank goodness for that, it appears freeps just don't know what to do right now and GV Stairapalooza is back in effect. The sooner they fix this bug to get things back to being viable for a freep to leave one shots, the better.

[siipperi]

Read the threads in the Gameplay Discussion forum. Cordovan confirmed it's a bug. And thank goodness for that, it appears freeps just don't know what to do right now and GV Stairapalooza is back in effect. The sooner they fix this bug to get things back to being viable for a freep to leave one shots, the better.

I have still spent 90% of my time waiting for creeps to come out of grams. Seems like on US servers freeps lacks some serious balls, freeps are still OP af. And threads that have appeared concerning this bug confirm that.

[DrRabbitfoot]

I have still spent 90% of my time waiting for creeps to come out of grams. Seems like on US servers freeps lacks some serious balls, freeps are still OP af. And threads that have appeared concerning this bug confirm that.

I totally agree it depends on the server. I've been on servers where creeps always had to push and vice versa.

[Hurtful]

I have still spent 90% of my time waiting for creeps to come out of grams. Seems like on US servers freeps lacks some serious balls, freeps are still OP af. And threads that have appeared concerning this bug confirm that.

Don't confuse thorough testing and expecting mechanical accuracy in the game as having a lack of balls. I created these threads based on physical evidence that something was not working as intended. None of these 20.1.2 changes were intended to affect creeps, so it was warranted for them to look into things. Unfortunately, with each update, the live servers become beta testing by the community. I found something that didn't appear to be working as intended, and the only way to get the dev team to acknowledge and fix broken mechanics is to bring it to their attention.

For the most part, I don't see this affecting the playstyles of any freeps. When I see freeps sitting at GV and creeps sitting at Grams, it's likely due to the massive raids on one or both sides that are flipping the map and pushing them there.

[Ethrildar]

@Mukor

As prior noted (many many times in every thread), Critical Defence has been proven by our testing to have no impact on incoming critical chance, as expected.

@Hurtful~
I want to applaud you and thank you for recognizing a bug and diagnosing its effects as quickly as you did.

Hurtful has done excellent work, particularly in contacting Cordovan specifically to get this looked into, but I'm the one that made the first thread and prompted people to test this

I have still spent 90% of my time waiting for creeps to come out of grams. Seems like on US servers freeps lacks some serious balls, freeps are still OP af. And threads that have appeared concerning this bug confirm that.

You're irritating, please just shut up with your "I'm so godmode at everything", it get's extremely tiring watching you try to bash absolutely everyone/thing on the forums.