Cordovan, please update the Official Roleplaying rules and policy thread!

[Elrintel]

The reality of all MMORPG's is this; No game can survive long if it is too strict in it's rules.

Great point, Aedon! SSG rarely enforces their code of conduct rules, let alone RP rules... and if they did in your case, LMB's concept band of debauchery would have been stopped long ago.

[Mirhaen]

I came to LOTRO from Ultima Online, where for more than 14 years I ran an RP village. In UO there were no RP servers, just an RP community governed by a common set of Rules of Engagement and basic RP1. We existed alongside those who were PvPers and those just there to play the game and adventure. And through the years we found that if you want to enjoy your RP the best way is to simply play your game as you will, and allow others to do the same. We did not check the names of everyone who approached us, nor did we look down on those who were not role players who would approach us, and join in a conversation. Even when their language was a bit more modern than we used.

I know that Lotro is more lore based than many games, but I find ways to enjoy roleplay without infringing on the play style of others. I can roleplay wiht thise who wish, play music with others and chase down hobbits in the moors on my warg. Yes, report those that deliberately grief you and others, but also leave yourself open to those that see you role playing, and wish to engage you in conversation. It is the way a community continues to grow.

The reality of all MMORPG's is this; No game can survive long if it is too strict in it's rules. Not an RP one or one that seeks to base itself in combat alone. All play styles make up the whole of the experience that is the game. I can interact with ease if someone approaches and has a name I would see as non RP. One of the finest roleplayers I ever had the pleasure to meet was named James Bunny-man. He never broke his character, was a master at interaction and yet had a name that might make many RPers cringe.

Just as we live life alongside people do not see things as we do does not mean those people should be contained within a box or punished because their parents gave them an odd name. Look to each interaction as a chance to introduce others to RP.

I very much agree with you. Nicely said, thank you. I also know that surely it was a big change for RP community with great influx of new people, but it was a big change for everyone. Ideally we should all get along and be civil and respectful, help each others, make friends, but unfortunately there is no such thing as ideal world and like with any human interaction some bad experience is also bound to happen. I don't mean that anyone should just put up with it all the time, we should always try to make things better.

Having a RP policy/ruleset was for me never about having a rules-lawyery weapons against others.

But that is exactly what happened. Policy was used as a weapon against others and on such a scale that rules had to be relaxed to prevent further hostile use of it. Probably they were also hoping that we would all get along better with time.

What should we do when things go really bad, though? /ignore removes some disruptions. If we wait 10 minutes, the offender might get bored and run elsewhere. We could try a friendly /tell and politely ask the other to pretty please not disrupt things (however, given that SSG has done its best to neuter the RP policy, we usually get a barrage back starting with "I have a right to play the game the way I want so nyah", and things go downhill from there).

Sorry to hear about it really. I had trouble just once with RP... Once I had to listen 10 minutes of a misogynistic role playing in Bree as I had to be there (person needed port and could only come to Bree to meet me). I haven't enjoyed it at all to say the least.

As for reporting, I pretty much gave up on that back in 2018 because GM response time was far to slow or because reports were never acted upon.

This is universal problem across servers, not like they ignore RP community solely and on purpose. If you take a look around the forum, you'll see complaints popping fairly often. Not saying that is a good thing, just that it's same for everyone as things stand at the moment.

On a general note, I seems was under false impression that things are functioning rather well lately. Made friends with few role players, was invited to few events and enjoyed it. Also helped any time I can with various things. Sad to see this subject back... In no way do I agree or approve intentional RP disruption and I do think that some of the rules should be enforced again. But I am not for too strict implementation of names and would like trade and lff channels to stay out of character. I'm perfectly fine with all other rules.

If RP community want exclusively RP server than I think they should say so and start from there and ask to have one server just for them. I don't mind but I think both parties would be worst off separated and on their own. I appreciate diversity and would personally miss RP community in many different ways.

[Linawillow]

If RP community want exclusively RP server than I think they should say so and start from there and ask to have one server just for them.

They should say so? Many of us wanted to uphold the RP policy on Laurelin all along, I think threads like this is good proof of that.

An exclusive RP server is not the issue, though. I bet there are some who clamour for a fully enforced RP server, but Laurelin never really was one in the past either.

On Laurelin, roleplayers played alongside other players who had lots of different interests, and that wasn't a problem. Why? Partly because there was a good sense of "getting along with others" already, but also because the server had the RP policy in place. The server was not RP enforced, but RP supported by Turbine. RP was supported in the sense that the policy didn't force you to roleplay, but it stated you had to show some care in choosing your name, keeping real-world stuff out of some chat channels and not sabotaging the roleplaying efforts of others. That's all there was to it. This set some standards. For the most part, it worked really well.

Then the wheels came off back in 2015 when we had an influx of new players. Most of the newcomers here were good and grand to meet, but there was an an incredibly loud minority who didn't really WANT to get along, although they sure were loud in demanding that others should get along with them. Turbine bought into their steady bludgeoning of a narrative that roleplayers were mean and weaponized the policy (which is just nuts, because players didn't enforce it, the GMs did) and basically shoved roleplaying to the side. Things have been iffy since.

That Laurelin from the past is what I'd like to have still. Not some mystical fully RP utopia, but a place where RP is supported to some degree. Which is most efficiently done by the game company stating clearly that this is a server where RP is supported, and we expect players to do this and that here. Then the community can shape around that.

Instead, SSG keeps running away from any and all commitments to their roleplaying community... by not updating the RP policy for their RP servers, by unstickying said policy from the forums, by acting like it doesn't really exist, by not replying to concerns here, by avoiding the topic with a 40-foot pole whenever it pops up during their Friday streams (other than implying that roleplayers are a low priority so quit bothering us). And that's just sad to see.

Hence, again:

If only SSG would update the official roleplay guidelines for their RP servers to an updated SSG format, and make an official statement that they expect players who decide to roll a character on an RP server to adhere to the official RP rules, that would go a long way.

[Elwenwing]

On Laurelin, roleplayers played alongside other players who had lots of different interests, and that wasn't a problem. Why? Partly because there was a good sense of "getting along with others" already, but also because the server had the RP policy in place. The server was not RP enforced, but RP supported by Turbine. RP was supported in the sense that the policy didn't force you to roleplay, but it stated you had to show some care in choosing your name, keeping real-world stuff out of some chat channels and not sabotaging the roleplaying efforts of others. That's all there was to it. This set some standards. For the most part, it worked really well.

I very much agree with the way Linawillow describes how Laurelin has always worked in the past. It feel it still mostly works that way today.

However it has become increasingly unclear that Laurelin is the official RP server. And actions like not updating the RP rules don't help improve this situation.

I feel as roleplayers on the official RP server we are in our right to ask SSG to clarify their intention with regards to their RP servers.

As Linawillow has described in an earlier post, these days it's often the roleplayers who feel they have to give way in the case there is conflict, while the purpose of the RP server was to make it the opposite.

If RP community want exclusively RP server than I think they should say so and start from there and ask to have one server just for them.

A statement like this just proves the point that we need more clarity that Laurelin IS one of the official RP servers.

[Mirhaen]

They should say so?

Yes, by that I meant if RP community want server solely populated by role players.

Turbine bought into their steady bludgeoning of a narrative that roleplayers were mean and weaponized the policy (which is just nuts, because players didn't enforce it, the GMs did) and basically shoved roleplaying to the side. Things have been iffy since.

Because RP community was reporting to no end and hostile talk was going on in world chat literally for weeks. Or have you forgot that? I have disabled world chat back then and never enable it again. It was anything but welcoming and friendly to people who lost their homes and came to Laurelin because they thought the community will be better there.

I understand your troubles but not gonna let you blame just one side because that is simply false.

Rules are unimportant when people are decent enough but since that is not the case I am also in favor of clarification. For my part I do want Laurelin to remain RP server and some rules to be in place but I think rules have to be relaxed to some degree. Things change with time and it is a great mix now, which I actually enjoy. But also because of this great diversity one needs to have bit more tolerance. And only thing I actually ever asked for is to allow people to keep borderline names and for two chat channels (namely trade and lff) to be allowed to be out of character but I'm fine if they allow both in those channels. Am I asking too much in your estimation?

[Mirhaen]

A statement like this just proves the point that we need more clarity that Laurelin IS one of the official RP servers.

Sorry if it was unclear or gave wrong impression... I have clarified what I meant in my previous post.

[Linawillow]

I understand your troubles but not gonna let you blame just one side because that is simply false.

Rules are unimportant when people are decent enough but since that is not the case I am also in favor of clarification. For my part I do want Laurelin to remain RP server and some rules to be in place but I think rules have to be relaxed to some degree. Things change with time and it is a great mix now, which I actually enjoy. But also because of this great diversity one needs to have bit more tolerance. And only thing I actually ever asked for is to allow people to keep borderline names and for two chat channels (namely trade and lff) to be allowed to be out of character but I'm fine if they allow both in those channels. Am I asking too much in your estimation?

I'm not really blaming just one side. Shots were fired on both sides. I don't at all find that the transgressions on both sides were equal, though, and the whole weaponizing of rules argument feels just silly to me, so we'll probably disagree on that.

But rather than dig deep into some of the atrocious things that went down in 2015 and 2016, let's look at the positives. We are seemingly both in favour of there being a policy. That's good. Some of the chat channels that are covered by the policy didn't make much sense even back in the day, so by all means, remove trade and lff. What I want is to keep real-life stuff out of /say, /emote, /shout and /regional. As for naming, I am sure there could be discussion on where the borderline cases are, but that has pretty much been done to death in various threads over the years. I want the real travesties and real-life associations gone. If SSG followed their regular LOTRO naming policy and did some extra leg work on modern-day associations and silliness, it'd go a long way.

Where we disagree is where you say that rules are unimportant when people are decent enough. Nope, don't agree at all in this case. People may be generally decent, but still disrupt others. Not necessarily out of bad will, but because all playstyles and behaviour don't mix well. Then, throw those that are not decent into the mix, and the combination is deadly for a roleplaying environment.

Rules are important in the sense that they set some standards. In our case, rules are important because they make it clear that there are a number of roleplaying servers, and this is the way SSG wants their players to behave there. If the players don't, there are various ways SSG can deal with it.

Rules won't help, though, if SSG keeps acting like they don't exist. By not updating the RP policy, by unstickying the policy thread from their forums, by not standing by it or making it easily accessible to their players, etc etc.

Hence, quoting this for the fourth time:

If only SSG would update the official roleplay guidelines for their RP servers to an updated SSG format, and make an official statement that they expect players who decide to roll a character on an RP server to adhere to the official RP rules, that would go a long way.

[Elrintel]

Rules are important in the sense that they set some standards. In our case, rules are important because they make it clear that there are a number of roleplaying servers, and this is the way SSG wants their players to behave there. If the players don't, there are various ways SSG can deal with it.

Rules won't help, though, if SSG keeps acting like they don't exist. By not updating the RP policy, by unstickying the policy thread from their forums, by not standing by it or making it easily accessible to their players, etc etc.

I have been following this thread and will lend my response with the above quotes as a foundation. I have been playing for three years and my thought is that RP rules (And code of conduct rules) are useless if they are not enforced to some degree. It seems to me that RP in the Tolkien universe would not be very difficult to define with the fact there are ample definitions of how Free peoples are characterized in the books. If the roles of players are defined in the books, then it makes sense that the rules of role play in this game can be easily formed based on those characteristics of the races. I have seen many great examples of this on Laurelin with the Hobbit community. In fact, Tolkien's Concerning Hobbits chapter is quite clear on the characterization of Hobbits. What is unique about this game is Tolkien has created an ideal Role Play world that should be easy to understand and easy to follow the rules whenever, and if ever they are enforced.

It is my past experience that the abuse of RP and the misrepresentation of the races of Middle Earth have caused some to leave this game. In fact, I have even considered leaving given the fact my own personal experience with RP abuse and concern for the enforcement of the code of conduct has been ignored. But I also understand that some of the abuse has rooted from the beginning (This happens to be my case) and that once the GM's compromise the rules in one area, it is not long before there are no rules at all. Given the fact that this is T for teen rated game, like the code of conduct, RP rules must consider that there are impressionable young folks who play this game that given the right scenario, these young folks could become great RPers in years to come. But if there is an abuse that goes unchecked, then we have more problems when these same young players think that the rules are not enforced.

[Mirhaen]

I don't at all find that the transgressions on both sides were equal, though, and the whole weaponizing of rules argument feels just silly to me, so we'll probably disagree on that.

Yes I believe it does feel just silly to you, when you were not the target of it.

What I want is to keep real-life stuff out of /say, /emote, /shout and /regional.

I think most would agree with this, if not all indeed.

People may be generally decent, but still disrupt others. Not necessarily out of bad will, but because all playstyles and behaviour don't mix well. Then, throw those that are not decent into the mix, and the combination is deadly for a roleplaying environment.

Can agree with this as I was disrupted by RP that was done in a very bad tastes once, as I mentioned earlier. And I know couple of other examples that were brought to my attention via kin members and friends. At that time the decision was that we just gonna swallow it. I think those bad examples comes from tiny minority, seemingly bereft of imagination when they couldn't find anything better to role play. Point being, knife cuts both ways. We are disrupted sometimes also, but I do believe that you might get disrupted more often if you role play in a major hubs in lower level areas. One can see all kinds of people there, and some are rather ignorant. I have to commend our role playing hobbit and dwarven community. I never saw nor heard anything bad from them.

As for the names, as well as many other things, we all know it's a matter of taste and personal opinion. I am rooting for the relaxed policy on names, because people are generally very attached to it, and in the case of a transfer, well it's one of the last things they still have left... And I'm also personally fond of being able to recognize people by names. There are some people with such similar names that I struggle to tell them apart, and it really just adds to loss of a personality. I saw some questionable names in the RP community also, but it is against rules to give real examples in the forum. However I do agree that obviously inappropriate names should be taken care of.

[femgeek900]

I had no idea when i started playing the servres were indeed RP. I asked ppl and checked them out and no one was RP ing. So sorry bout that. Also doesnt seem feasible to have 'say' be rp. ppl just want to be able to say what they want easily.

Related but maybe should go elsewhere i am new to the music /performance community and i wil play around some or joke or help u with a line, but I just want to listen to the music and chat and be real.

[Mirhaen]

I have been following this thread and will lend my response with the above quotes as a foundation. I have been playing for three years and my thought is that RP rules (And code of conduct rules) are useless if they are not enforced to some degree. It seems to me that RP in the Tolkien universe would not be very difficult to define with the fact there are ample definitions of how Free peoples are characterized in the books. If the roles of players are defined in the books, then it makes sense that the rules of role play in this game can be easily formed based on those characteristics of the races. I have seen many great examples of this on Laurelin with the Hobbit community. In fact, Tolkien's Concerning Hobbits chapter is quite clear on the characterization of Hobbits. What is unique about this game is Tolkien has created an ideal Role Play world that should be easy to understand and easy to follow the rules whenever, and if ever they are enforced.

It is my past experience that the abuse of RP and the misrepresentation of the races of Middle Earth have caused some to leave this game. In fact, I have even considered leaving given the fact my own personal experience with RP abuse and concern for the enforcement of the code of conduct has been ignored. But I also understand that some of the abuse has rooted from the beginning (This happens to be my case) and that once the GM's compromise the rules in one area, it is not long before there are no rules at all. Given the fact that this is T for teen rated game, like the code of conduct, RP rules must consider that there are impressionable young folks who play this game that given the right scenario, these young folks could become great RPers in years to come. But if there is an abuse that goes unchecked, then we have more problems when these same young players think that the rules are not enforced.

Yes, to some extent. I find, with Tolkien, many things are not black and white so to say. There is not one lore or one cannon but he created many, which becomes obvious when one moves through entire body of his work. And I like to think that people are enough creative to imagine and add a bit more to it of their own, just like the game developers did in many cases To take just tiny example, hobbits were not always homebodies. Those are people that went through big migrations, been through the wars, lived in very different areas, were in touch with different cultures and lived with different people at times. Well I can go on about it to no end really... If Tolkien is still alive, I have no doubt that he would still be adding on and polishing his work, and perhaps create something new even. Point being, there is some space for variation and imagination RP wise Though I am aware that some insist on sticking strictly to what we know about the third age only.

As for other things you wrote about, I can't comment as I'm not familiar with what you talking about exactly. It is for me written in a general manner that left me with vague guessing.

[Elrintel]

Yes, to some extent. I find, with Tolkien, many things are not black and white so to say. There is not one lore or one cannon but he created many, which becomes obvious when one moves through entire body of his work. And I like to think that people are enough creative to imagine and add a bit more to it of their own, just like the game developers did in many cases To take just tiny example, hobbits were not always homebodies. Those are people that went through big migrations, been through the wars, lived in very different areas, were in touch with different cultures and lived with different people at times. Well I can go on about it to no end really... If Tolkien is still alive, I have no doubt that he would still be adding on and polishing his work, and perhaps create something new even. Point being, there is some space for variation and imagination RP wise Though I am aware that some insist on sticking strictly to what we know about the third age only.

I agree, as long as there is some borders which would exist inside basic rules of RP styles of Middle Earth. For the most part, my experience with RP has been with those who have a firm grasp of the characters and cultures of Middle Earth. Any misrepresentation of Hobbits for example, would violate the RP rules and make this anything other than an RP server. Regardless of the RP rules, most of the abuse of the rules are a reflection of people not adhering to the codes of conduct. (COC). And this runs both ways; those who interrupt and grieve RPers, and those who abuse the RP rules by claiming their breaking of the COC is role playing.

Rule 22. Although the Game is a role-playing game, you may not claim “role-playing” in defense of any violation of the Code of Conduct.
If there are strictly RP servers and someone wants to violate the COC claiming it is RP, well rule 22 is broken...

As for other things you wrote about, I can't comment as I'm not familiar with what you talking about exactly. It is for me written in a general manner that left me with vague guessing.

Let me say that most in the music community knows what I am referring to regarding my own personal situation. Though there may be misinformation and misunderstanding to some degree, there is a clear case of breach of the COC. There is a certain musical act that does indeed break COC claiming their actions are "role-playing". I privately tried to get an explanation as to why this "act" is even necessary and asked how they defend their actions. Their responses were contradicting and illogical to the point that I was the one with the problem. I have since been slandered by a group who even uses my stance in their acts. I have tried to take this valid complaint to SSG (In great detail) but I have heard nothing and in fact I believe that since this act has been "permitted" to violate the COC from the beginning, I and the others they have offended are considered the "minority" and just have to live with it.

The bottom line is this is in all aspects a RP game and the problem is not with the RP rules not being enforced, the problem is with the COC being ignored to the point that some are leaving this game because of the lack of enforcement of the COC. But in reality, SSG is making money off of those who stretch the limits of the COC, just as they make money on the strict, COC abiding RPers. Other than expressing our complaints in endless forum threads, it may be up to the law abiding RPer to continue to remain faithful to the lore and spirit of Tolkien for our own good. I have decided this will be my path. I really do enjoy the content of the game and there is something special about LOTRO. I personally want to thank all who make Tolkien come alive because of your love of the lore and love of your characters! My three years have been overall a wonderful Tolkien experience, The bad experiences have at least made me all the more wiser on what to avoid and what to seek

[Mirhaen]

I agree, as long as there is some borders which would exist inside basic rules of RP styles of Middle Earth.

Absolutely, and for any play style really. Decent people are aware of the borders of propriety and would rarely cross it. Rest gonna push it as far as they can get away with it.

For the most part, my experience with RP has been with those who have a firm grasp of the characters and cultures of Middle Earth. Any misrepresentation of Hobbits for example, would violate the RP rules and make this anything other than an RP server. Regardless of the RP rules, most of the abuse of the rules are a reflection of people not adhering to the codes of conduct. (COC). And this runs both ways; those who interrupt and grieve RPers, and those who abuse the RP rules by claiming their breaking of the COC is role playing.

Rule 22. Although the Game is a role-playing game, you may not claim “role-playing” in defense of any violation of the Code of Conduct.
If there are strictly RP servers and someone wants to violate the COC claiming it is RP, well rule 22 is broken...

I couldn't agree more. So far I have witnessed the violation of rules number 3, 13, 22 and 28. And I am having doubts about my own reaction to it. On one side I didn't report it not to steer problems any further, on another side I had my own conscience to live with :/ Back then it was really bad situation and we were all also feeling very vulnerable. I just wanted things to settle down and my own kin and friends to have some rest.

Let me say that most in the music community knows what I am referring to regarding my own personal situation. Though there may be misinformation and misunderstanding to some degree, there is a clear case of breach of the COC. There is a certain musical act that does indeed break COC claiming their actions are "role-playing". I privately tried to get an explanation as to why this "act" is even necessary and asked how they defend their actions. Their responses were contradicting and illogical to the point that I was the one with the problem. I have since been slandered by a group who even uses my stance in their acts. I have tried to take this valid complaint to SSG (In great detail) but I have heard nothing and in fact I believe that since this act has been "permitted" to violate the COC from the beginning, I and the others they have offended are considered the "minority" and just have to live with it.

The bottom line is this is in all aspects a RP game and the problem is not with the RP rules not being enforced, the problem is with the COC being ignored to the point that some are leaving this game because of the lack of enforcement of the COC. But in reality, SSG is making money off of those who stretch the limits of the COC, just as they make money on the strict, COC abiding RPers. Other than expressing our complaints in endless forum threads, it may be up to the law abiding RPer to continue to remain faithful to the lore and spirit of Tolkien for our own good. I have decided this will be my path. I really do enjoy the content of the game and there is something special about LOTRO. I personally want to thank all who make Tolkien come alive because of your love of the lore and love of your characters! My three years have been overall a wonderful Tolkien experience, The bad experiences have at least made me all the more wiser on what to avoid and what to seek

Thanks for taking time to explain and to tell your own story, and also to shed some light for me on some issues. Lately I finally started to feel at home on Laurelin. I met great deal of new people and made friends with most. I think having seen this subject brought back again it just makes me feel afraid of loosing all I built meanwhile and going back into days of chaos, fights and retaliations. It is just not something I want to experience again. It is enough sometimes to touch one person to see many more rise in emotional outburst... Gonna brace myself, come what may.

[Elwenwing]

I have been following this thread and will lend my response with the above quotes as a foundation. I have been playing for three years and my thought is that RP rules (And code of conduct rules) are useless if they are not enforced to some degree.

I agree. I want the regular servers to be subject to the Code of Conduct rules, and I want the the RP servers to be subject to the additional RP policy on top of the Code of Conduct rules. Both should be enforced equally, though it seems SSG is not always able to deal with all the issues that can present itself on either of these servers. Still it's important to have the rules stated clearly for both regular and RP servers. That in itself should provide players with a good understanding of what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't for either of the servers.

It seems to me that RP in the Tolkien universe would not be very difficult to define with the fact there are ample definitions of how Free peoples are characterized in the books. If the roles of players are defined in the books, then it makes sense that the rules of role play in this game can be easily formed based on those characteristics of the races. I have seen many great examples of this on Laurelin with the Hobbit community. In fact, Tolkien's Concerning Hobbits chapter is quite clear on the characterization of Hobbits. What is unique about this game is Tolkien has created an ideal Role Play world that should be easy to understand and easy to follow the rules whenever, and if ever they are enforced.

This is a more complicated topic. The RP rules once made by Turbine were not about defining the way players should roleplay. They were just a guideline in regard to the expected behaviour of players in the various chat channels, and on how to name a character on a roleplay server. This was just a way to provide a deeper immersion, by taking away some of the OOC behaviour you might encounter on a non RP server.

I personally don't think the RP rules should be more than that, and maybe they can be made a bit more flexible and simple. As long as they provide an extra layer of IC immersion for roleplayers. Without that a RP server is just a regular server

As a more general reply to this thread, I do think it's a shame that the discussion about RP rules mostly ends in a discussion between players who want RP rules in place, and those who fear they might be too restrictive.

The RP servers were created as place to go for roleplayers specifically, players who voluntarily accept the additional rules made for these servers. Specifically created for roleplayers doesn't mean exclusively though. My opinion after playing on Laurelin for about seven years is that the RP rules were never too restrictive for any player, and easy enough to follow with a bit of good intention.

[Elwenwing]

Also doesnt seem feasible to have 'say' be rp. ppl just want to be able to say what they want easily.

Respectfully, but why play on an RP server if you want /say to be OOC? There are plenty of chat channels that are equally easily available.

[Mirhaen]

As a more general reply to this thread, I do think it's a shame that the discussion about RP rules mostly ends in a discussion between players who want RP rules in place, and those who fear they might be too restrictive.

The RP servers were created as place to go for roleplayers specifically, players who voluntarily accept the additional rules made for these servers. Specifically created for roleplayers doesn't mean exclusively though. My opinion after playing on Laurelin for about seven years is that the RP rules were never too restrictive for any player, and easy enough to follow with a bit of good intention.

Thing is, we checked Laurelin before the transfer. Couple of people made chars and went there with the sole purpose of checking about restrictions, and most notably about name restrictions for we didn't worry much about anything else. That is to say we knew that we can act in accordance with the rest of the rules/restrictions. And in the world chat we were assured by people that we wouldn't have any problems with names and that things are very relaxed. But once we did transfer it was all kinds of havoc Also transfer to Evernight was not possible at that time, I'm guessing due to too many people going there. It was disabled. And quite frankly no one was eager to go to Evernight as we expected all kinds of people there, to say the least. But had we known what is awaiting, we would indeed think twice. I do not regret it though for at least I got to meet some great new people which I wouldn't otherwise. And now we also have, not just in my kin but also in others that came with us, considerable numbers of, so to say, native Laurelin players.

Now renaming was also handled rather badly, without any warning or given chance to pick names ourselves. I was somewhat lucky as I have immediately contacted GM to check my names and to give me rename tokens. I had to rename two of my alts. One of my names already existed on the server and another one GM felt that didn't fit well with the race. One I've been said it was borderline but I was allowed to keep it. I was very happy that I was able to keep all names that were important for me. But I am wondering who is to tell that some other GM won't go step further and decide otherwise :/ I don't want to be in the constant fear of it. But many other people didn't react so fast and were not equally precautious sadly and saw their chars getting renamed in a manner I've described above, which was painful.

On one occasion, my fellowship disbanded right when i was about to post comment in the fellowship chat, and text went by default into say. Was nothing offensive. I had to endure lecturing from two people for something that was not my mistake nor intention. Game is designed in such way. It was just a very bad luck. I never use say.

I would very much like to believe when you say that things are relaxed and not too restrictive but I've been shown otherwise and therefor I worry. RP community obviously have their own share of similar stories, I am not disputing that. It is clear to me that many are kind and decent people, but it is also clear to me that there is minority who think and act otherwise. Maybe I worry needlessly, time will tell.

[femgeek900]

Respectfully, but why play on an RP server if you want /say to be OOC? There are plenty of chat channels that are equally easily available.

Guess u missed where i said I didn't know. By the time I started there was no evidence of rp and i asked and people said no. Btw there is no one chatting in those OOC channels. Now i have several toons on Landy and Laurelin (as well as others) and thousands of other players also have non RP toons there. Considering them as guidelines is helpful since i had no clue about RP. I will try to be considerate. but based upon what the majority do. i am sympathetic to you all.

[Miralith]

The RP rules once made by Turbine were not about defining the way players should roleplay. They were just a guideline in regard to the expected behaviour of players in the various chat channels, and on how to name a character on a roleplay server. This was just a way to provide a deeper immersion, by taking away some of the OOC behaviour you might encounter on a non RP server.

I personally don't think the RP rules should be more than that, and maybe they can be made a bit more flexible and simple. As long as they provide an extra layer of IC immersion for roleplayers. Without that a RP server is just a regular server
I do think it's a shame that the discussion about RP rules mostly ends in a discussion between players who want RP rules in place, and those who fear they might be too restrictive.

The RP servers were created as place to go for roleplayers specifically, players who voluntarily accept the additional rules made for these servers. Specifically created for roleplayers doesn't mean exclusively though. My opinion after playing on Laurelin for about seven years is that the RP rules were never too restrictive for any player, and easy enough to follow with a bit of good intention.

/signed

I, too, am also disappointed that this topic seems to only be a back-and-forth between folk in the community on each side of the argument. I don't think most RP folk are asking for much. We know there have always been a great number of non-roleplayers on the RP servers, and the RP community has never begrudged that, so long as they avoid being disruptive at events. The non-RP players, up until recent years, and especially in the last few months, have seemed to not mind trying to play along with the rules, particularly the RP naming policy. I don't really feel that coming up with something that sounds like a name is that demanding of anyone. I would be happy even if the only change to occur was for a reasonable RP naming policy to be enforced, to prevent some of the extremely obvious inappropriate names that have popped up in recent months (for example, things like Asackofgravy, Donottanglewithme and Whatisthatsmell).

I'm also somewhat dismayed at the lack of attention the topic of Roleplaying Servers (not just this thread) has received from SSG. I know that there are only a few voices speaking up in this thread and others, but there is a whole RP community that has become concerned with the state of the RP servers that we joined so long ago to have a more immersive experience. I'm sure that most of them, like me, are readers-not-posters because of the tendancy for forum threads to become heated, stressful conversations. But please don't overlook the RP community, as many of us have stuck around for over a decade and hopefully will continue to do so despite little consideration being made for a few minor asks in recent times.

[Elhiril]

I feel there's this big misconception about the expectations of the RP community. There seems to be this belief that what roleplayers care about is having strict policies in place and warring against players who don't RP or names that "aren't Elvish enough". Not only do I find that to be untrue from my experiences over the past decade plus, but sort of cheapening to the concerns the RP community have. Aside from the problematic players you'll find on any server, that really isn't the concern for the RP community I know and am apart of. The majority just want to feel acknolwedged and to be able to enjoy RP in the game without getting grief.

I want to join the others in this thread asking for the RP guidelines to be acknowledged, some sort of word on where we stand, anything. I feel that most roleplayers don't post here, so their voices aren't loud, but I know and have encountered many who feel incredibly put out and misunderstood this last couple of years.