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[Papou_sous_la_montagne]

Under turbine era, we are accustomed to exploit bug, cheat, use all turbine error for our own profit without any sort of punishment or item removal like this (only one time with BigBattle and gift exploit).

For people who are crying => You had played, you loose. And you knew that was unusual to get stuff at not planned cost by dev.

The solution to this problem is brave and logic. For me this show SSG is become a better compagny (not perfect for sure and have more work to do) who is doing his job not more not less like all another serious compagny.

I agree with other solution if SSG don't want remove your stuff for equity with other people they need put back NPC with current price. And it's unthinkable from an economic business model of point of view (all mmo are base on farming, yes i am dissapointed too).

This thread is another example of player mentality shaped by old Warner/turbin ' s unhealthy decisions like the older thread about mordor difficulty.

Just my point of view, no offense. Feel free to not agree with it.

[Montezuma's]

to SSG:
was it the 1st time SSG changing the game rules for only part of players? No, not the 1st time. And surely not the 2nd. And what is bad - unfortunately not the last one. Bc it's your trademark, your style.

Is this discussed situation gamers friendly? No way. N o w a y.

I can't even comprehend how you messed up with prices for new items. In a wallmart you'll be fired the next minute.

My best solution would be you keep initial prices for all. It costs you nothing to do that, zero dollars. And that would be a user-friendly approach.

[MAWorking]

I am usually rather tollerant of mistakes and bugs.
This "solution", I can't.
I realize that items are virtual and have no value, but the real money I used does.
I will be patient, but I have to go to my cc and dispute charges as the items I paid for were.... destroyed? Removed?
Love the game, I just can't throw money away like that... or allow it to be.

Rethink. Be fair. Understand.

[Kostas2112]

For people who are crying => You had played, you loose. And you knew that was unusual to get stuff at not planned cost by dev.

With all due respect its not the players to blame here. Its not our job to know what a 'fair' price for an item is. Those that took advantage of the bug did nothing wrong. Just visited a ventor and bought the gear at the price SSG put on those items. If the devs put a wrong price thats their fault.

Again, put the ventor back on and let things as was before, with the lower prices. Hotfixes will only do things worse.

[Farasilion]

So while we are at it, can we please have some honest information here - with the release of new raid in two or so months, will you gate T2 behind... let us say 300 shadows, throw out another set of ash gears with item level335, ~20 lights and cost 500-4000 ashes each; then say to us "go farm from scratch for these if you want to do content we just released, else you will suffer same tier of shadow debuff just like the other guy who hit max level yesterday and have not wasted a single minute nor penny on the ash grind."?

Milk us all you want sir, but please do remember it is up to us, and us alone to decide whether we stay in this milkhouse.

[Daluindil]

Things have been very troubling as of late.

Since the release of Mordor, it's been an unceasing line-up of glitches, bugs, typos, bad design, terrible plot/dialogue, mistakes, and poor play experience overall. Now this is a further sign that the team is in way over their heads, taking a terrible decision on something trivial that should be a no-brainer.

Those items people purchased are going to last them what? A bunch of weeks until we change gear again? The bonuses they got over the older stuff are minimal. You gave those people a way to skip some of the terrible ash farm (which is a really, really terrible design point, by the way), it's on you. They didn't mean to cheat or exploit, they just rolled with your mistake. Own it and move on. This proposed "hotfix" is totally irresponsible and a poor show of ownership.

[Geventh]

So while we are at it, can we please have some honest information here - with the release of new raid in two or so months, will you gate T2 behind... let us say 300 shadows, throw out another set of ash gears with item level335, ~20 lights and cost 500-4000 ashes each; then say to us "go farm from scratch for these if you want to do content we just released, else you will suffer same tier of shadow debuff just like the other guy who hit max level yesterday and have not wasted a single minute nor penny on the ash grind."?

Milk us all you want sir, but please do remember it is up to us, and us alone to decide whether we stay in this milkhouse.

You probably don't even have to bother with the raid as it's likely gonna be bugged with stupid mechanics, mob balance and the same #### class imbalance. Just get lvl 345-351 gear from ash barter or lootbox and call it a day. Zero engagement in the content released. Recycled geared ftw, I wonder how long they can pull that off...

[Nochdor]

For people who are crying => You had played, you loose. And you knew that was unusual to get stuff at not planned cost by dev.

People are different and we all see things out of our own perspective. But one thing that is clear, is that if they make ppl who barterd the stuff suffer. Everyone will suffer.

This easy example will demonstrate it:
1. SSG needs money (we all know it)
2. There screwup renders ppl who spend real money to the SSG company, without a playable character (no gear not easy to play as some of them "including me" did decon or throw the old gear as i have space issues on my toons).
3. This will in turn lead to ppl leaving the game.
4. That will lead to less income for SSG (This is worse then waste a gear cycle of income for SSG in the long run).
5. This will impact everyone in and around the game.

Hope everyone understands this. SSG cant afford loosing the playerbase who made the purchase at the vendor in good faith.
The game needs more players not less.

Even if you didnt login in time or did not barter stuff as you felt it was too off, your loss here is that you need more grind or buy more keys to get the gear. You still have a playable character.

[Endurion_Eldar]

I couldn't be asked to read all 11 pages in this thread, so if you've altered your first statement concering this bug, don't read further.

If you remove the new gear I bartered yesterday, I want a compensation for my gear in which I deleted last night. I also want a compensation in form of essence-removal scrolls which I used last night.

Another solution to this, is to take a different approach. It is you who messed this up, so why not make the gear this cheap throughout the week, so that as many as possible can get it. Make a public statement so that people will know this. I believe most of the players that acquired the gear, is the devoted and faithful ones, and should be handled with care.

[GloriousEagle]

If there is still any dev Reading i would like to propose the following:

- Give back Ash and everything else involved. Perhaps give all gear quest rewards back - would equate destroyed gear and a littel extra Ash on the side by burning other pieces (although this is a bit too much).

- Give Money back to ppl who bought essences and such - this is obvious. This is real Money spent on nohting (items take back) that you destroyed. Borderline fraud.

- Make Ash drop from New instances. This is Critical, the current form is not recruiting New players. Nobody wants an endgame that relies on farming map mobs for drops.
Either make New instances always drop 1 gear on chests for all party members (of several tiers) or 1 drop of gear for Whole party and a little Ash for all members.
You could say that 4k Ash would be needed for 10 pieces, so 150ash per run sounds pretty farmy already.

Anyway, gl dev team. Your job isnt easy, but on this you have dedicated players.

EDIT: Please do maintain higher prices if you do the above though. This will incite Group play in New instances.

[bobbylobs]

With all due respect its not the players to blame here.

Yes it is, its their fault for allowing SSG to be in a position they know they can get away with it.

Its their fault for logging back in and handing over cash after it happened the last 2 dozen times.

Its their fault for jumping in every thread that has brought these issues up before and saying like "if you dont like it, leave" or labelling people as haters and trolls simply for complaining when it started happening 6 years ago, when the same people jumped into threads about the Rohan daily issue, the wildermore daily issues, cliving farms threads, BG 1st boss FA symbol drop threads, flower picking, wastes, Draigoch, Mordor release delay threads, etc etc and the dozens and dozens of other threads that have been started to highlight problems that Turbine/SSG have caused and mistakes they have raised, and why did they jump in those threads? to divert the attention from the issue and to start a petty argument to get the thread locked so no-one could make the heinous crime of saying their precious game is less than perfect.

The players are fully responsible for the current attitude of SSG, you have allowed SSG to have all the power in this current relationaship, they have you thinking that unless you bend over the table, pull your pants down and take whatever they give you, you will lose you game, that SSG will throw some sort of hissy fit and close it down.

The reality is the opposite, SSG rely on you for their livelihood, they need you in game, playing to keep their jobs and support their families, so show them that unless they provide you, the customer, with the game you want they will lose that support and do it BY STOP PLAYING THE GAME UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, nothing else is going to change the situation, logging in every day to play the game sends SSG a message that thay can do whatever they want to the game, you will keep playing regardless which means they have no reason to change it.

If anyone still playing this game wants it to be better and reverse the direction SSG are taking it in, log off, stay logged off and dont come back until there is a change, they will have no choice to change it if they want to keep their jobs, SSG are not a charity, they do not care about your well being, your happiness or if you log in happy or upset, all they are interested in is if you log in at all.

[Perdon]

Like the old rule says: Don't play on Patchdays. You bought it and knew that it was already so much cheaper than any gear before, and you didn't find it unserious?
And because you are so innocent, you bought all staff quickly with all characters you have. I feel good that this time the quick people get blamed.

[ainor]

Same thing all over with every update...

Sneaking in stuff to live in last minute, that's not tested on Bullroarer at all. Then messing it up, giving advantage to players who logged in first day. Causing alot of frustrations on everyone...

Yes...



Does anyone actually still believe that this is not made on purpose?

[Hephburz-2]

Like the old rule says: Don't play on Patchdays. You bought it and knew that it was already so much cheaper than any gear before, and you didn't find it unserious?
And because you are so innocent, you bought all staff quickly with all characters you have. I feel good that this time the quick people get blamed.

Its not a matter of "quick people get blamed", majority of these people who logged in early and brought this gear are generally those most eager to play and complete new content trying to log in as soon as possible.

AND to top it off, majority of these people would have already destroyed their old gear for ash as I myself have done - so in taking away the new stuff for what it was worth, you are going to leave a large section of the playerbase, without any gear or with only 1-2 pieces of gear, players who will now be unable to play and complete the instances because of a mistake made by SSG.

We are not proposing/asking for us to just KEEP our stuff, we also want the price kept LOW for everyone.

[pikeperch]

I suggest that instead of making the already bartered gear useless, their item level could be lowered, to like 326 or something, so those who destroyed their old gear could continue to use weaker versions of the new gear. And there would be no need for essence reclamation scrolls.

[Rialtan]

Under turbine era, we are accustomed to exploit bug, cheat, use all turbine error for our own profit without any sort of punishment or item removal like this (only one time with BigBattle and gift exploit).

For people who are crying => You had played, you loose. And you knew that was unusual to get stuff at not planned cost by dev.

The solution to this problem is brave and logic. For me this show SSG is become a better compagny (not perfect for sure and have more work to do) who is doing his job not more not less like all another serious compagny.

I agree with other solution if SSG don't want remove your stuff for equity with other people they need put back NPC with current price. And it's unthinkable from an economic business model of point of view (all mmo are base on farming, yes i am dissapointed too).

This thread is another example of player mentality shaped by old Warner/turbin ' s unhealthy decisions like the older thread about mordor difficulty.

Just my point of view, no offense. Feel free to not agree with it.

Like the old rule says: Don't play on Patchdays. You bought it and knew that it was already so much cheaper than any gear before, and you didn't find it unserious?
And because you are so innocent, you bought all staff quickly with all characters you have. I feel good that this time the quick people get blamed.

No comment. Ofc we got new gear asap. To test new instances genius.

[Kostas2112]

Yes it is, its their fault for allowing SSG to be in a position they know they can get away with it.

Its their fault for logging back in and handing over cash after it happened the last 2 dozen times.

Its their fault for jumping in every thread that has brought these issues up before and saying like "if you dont like it, leave" or labelling people as haters and trolls simply for complaining when it started happening 6 years ago, when the same people jumped into threads about the Rohan daily issue, the wildermore daily issues, cliving farms threads, BG 1st boss FA symbol drop threads, flower picking, wastes, Draigoch, Mordor release delay threads, etc etc and the dozens and dozens of other threads that have been started to highlight problems that Turbine/SSG have caused and mistakes they have raised, and why did they jump in those threads? to divert the attention from the issue and to start a petty argument to get the thread locked so no-one could make the heinous crime of saying their precious game is less than perfect.

The players are fully responsible for the current attitude of SSG, you have allowed SSG to have all the power in this current relationaship, they have you thinking that unless you bend over the table, pull your pants down and take whatever they give you, you will lose you game, that SSG will throw some sort of hissy fit and close it down.

The reality is the opposite, SSG rely on you for their livelihood, they need you in game, playing to keep their jobs and support their families, so show them that unless they provide you, the customer, with the game you want they will lose that support and do it BY STOP PLAYING THE GAME UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, nothing else is going to change the situation, logging in every day to play the game sends SSG a message that thay can do whatever they want to the game, you will keep playing regardless which means they have no reason to change it.

If anyone still playing this game wants it to be better and reverse the direction SSG are taking it in, log off, stay logged off and dont come back until there is a change, they will have no choice to change it if they want to keep their jobs, SSG are not a charity, they do not care about your well being, your happiness or if you log in happy or upset, all they are interested in is if you log in at all.

While i dont disagree with what you say my post was for the issue we're facing here only. You're seeing the 'big picture' there and thats fine. If you follow my post history you'll see that im not a big fan of the way SSG treats their community and product.

The players that went on and bartered the items did nothing wrong. They just played the game. SSG asked them x amount of ash for the new items and they pay exactly that price. Nothing wrong there. SSG should take all responsibility for the failure and correct it the best way possible.

[Hunzinator]

Alpha testers are also players you know? Players who also aren't paid, and there is a great deal that is changes between Alpha (Palantir server) and beta (Bullroarer server), and then again before it even hits live, everything on Palantir/Bullroarer is always subject to change before live.

Are you for real? have you seen the people that showcase their alpha and bete testing?
they arnt looking for ways to break the game, they are looking at the new diamante's on the backpack of an orc's helmet reflecting off the rock by the shimmering fire embers.
its the ones that keep everything hush hush and secretly go into these places to try and intentionally break the game as to why your having this situation. you want people to break it and report back, thats what a tester does.
and Why does this breaking happen and nobody knows about it???
cos every update that comes out is a grind. there is no fun in a game when you have to spend your whole 8 hours a day grinding.
first it was flowers, then it was reputation. the list goes on.
atleast any grinding i do at work i get paid for.
the whole concept of LOTRO is awsome and i love it. but i cant grind anymore.
and the same thing happens in the other game too, has been for ages.
i know negativity sux, but thats just how it is.

[Deniorona]

Hey everyone,
I logged in yesterday after update and bartered for the new gear, deconned my old gear so if I have it taken away my poor Rk will be naked! omg

I really don't know whether I want to grind for all her stuff again, it will prob make me take a very long if not permanent vacation from lotro

Someone must be in trouble at SSG and I pity them but the gamers shudnt be punished for it.

Synergie
The Riddles in the Dark playing on Evernight

[Pavlosh]

Many people that bartered for new gear did Ash their old stuff.

Both the old gear and and essences within are now complete trash, and people needed the Ash to go towards the new gear...

As for the folks who thought the price was too low so did not barter. Next time I'm in a shop and see a bargain, I'll pass it up.....

[Perdon]

I suggest that instead of making the already bartered gear useless, their item level could be lowered, to like 326 or something, so those who destroyed their old gear could continue to use weaker versions of the new gear. And there would be no need for essence reclamation scrolls.

That sounds like a good plan.

majority of these people who logged in early and brought this gear are generally those most eager to play and complete new content.

So cute. And they obviously knew that the prices were wrong. It was already an open secret that the prices were wrong long time before SSG closed the npc.
Same price for weak, middle and new stuff. Sorry, for some people who actually just bought 2-3 items accidently, but I still see the majority of people
was definetly aware of, that this must be a mistake and they still bought it. And more important, the majority of people who paid for this game was not yet able to buy anything with a wrong price.

Btw: It is an open secret that a lot of players just try almost everything on patch day or in early week just to identify the easiest and often cheating way to get items.
And exactly these players are telling me then, that the content is too easy, and that Tier 2 Equip is just for Pro-Gamers and must be earned. Ha, Ha !!!

[Arandour]

Its not a matter of "quick people get blamed", majority of these people who logged in early and brought this gear are generally those most eager to play and complete new content trying to log in as soon as possible.

AND to top it off, majority of these people would have already destroyed their old gear for ash as I myself have done - so in taking away the new stuff for what it was worth, you are going to leave a large section of the playerbase, without any gear or with only 1-2 pieces of gear, players who will now be unable to play and complete the instances because of a mistake made by SSG.

We are not proposing/asking for us to just KEEP our stuff, we also want the price kept LOW for everyone.

You cover me up completely Heph and something else for the friend that blame us cause we were hurry.
I didnt even look how they cost cause i had 22k ashes on my main and i wanted to get them as fast as i could so i can hit the new instances.With alts didnt got anything and i have 6,115 lvl characters that did dailies for keys and staff every day...

[Hephburz-2]

That sounds like a good plan.



So cute. And they obviously knew that the prices were wrong. It was already an open secret that the prices were wrong long time before SSG closed the npc.
Same price for weak, middle and new stuff. Sorry, for some people who actually just bought 2-3 items accidently, but I still see the majority of people
was definetly aware of, that this must be a mistake and they still bought it. And more important, the majority of people who paid for this game was not yet able to buy anything with a wrong price.

Btw: It is an open secret that a lot of players just try almost everything on patch day or in early week just to identify the easiest and often cheating way to get items.
And exactly these players are telling me then, that the content is too easy, and that Tier 2 Equip is just for Pro-Gamers and must be earned. Ha, Ha !!!

Also love how you just completely ignored the second half of my post, so I'll post it again here just incase you forgot to read it.

"AND to top it off, majority of these people would have already destroyed their old gear for ash as I myself have done - so in taking away the new stuff for what it was worth, you are going to leave a large section of the playerbase, without any gear or with only 1-2 pieces of gear, players who will now be unable to play and complete the instances because of a mistake made by SSG.

We are not proposing/asking for us to just KEEP our stuff, we also want the price kept LOW for everyone."

- Regardless of whether or not those people took advantage of the low prices, people are now still going to be punished on a far wider scale than intended.

1. People will have to pay for a ridiculous amount of Reclamation scrolls to remove the essences they've already put onto their new gear.
2. People who have ALREADY deconned their OLD gear for ash will now be at a serious disadvantage, because they will no longer have any armour, or at least not a whole lot of it to be able to do any instances.
3. KEEP the prices LOW for everyone, this is SSG's mistake, not the PLAYERS.

[Kostas2112]

So cute. And they obviously knew that the prices were wrong. It was already an open secret that the prices were wrong long time before SSG closed the npc.
Same price for weak, middle and new stuff. Sorry, for some people who actually just bought 2-3 items accidently, but I still see the majority of people
was definetly aware of, that this must be a mistake and they still bought it. And more important, the majority of people who paid for this game was not yet able to buy anything with a wrong price.

Any proof of those claims? If you say the majority of the players knew it and deliberatly did the purchase you need to prove it somehow dont you think?

To speak for my self i didn't knew sh!t and thats why i didn't buy anything...

[eldoralin]

Just to add some feedback i took the new stuff yesterday and blow up my old one in ashes,

- hotfix means i'm naked on 3 characters and honestly if it happens it's gonna be a ragequit

- even with the "low" prices my captain can't take the stuff, he has done every mordor quests, some ashes farm session and still can't take it because you get 60 ashes in an hour from ourouks (so that's 10 hour for an item ? no way)



Ho and just one stupid question if anyone reads it , do you need some experienced players to test the game before you put it online regardless of beta sessions and get rapid feedback?

Because it seems many epic fails that happens, music crash for naerband on beta1, ashes prices and a long list of others can be prevented just by looking at npc; playing instances, doing quests... with a group of 10 guys, if you don't have time/skills etc i'm sure some players would be happy to help with that.