update:whatever....THE SPILO VERSION

[jomanjy]

if the defiler died in a 1vs1 from hunter/burg then hes doing something wrong imo. no hunter/burg managed to solo my defiler on arkenstone so far and i am running solo most of the time except only once and it was organized fight..a scaled hunter went full glass canon and i still stayed with 3 mits only (didn't stack more mits) and didn't use any debuffs/fear and im pretty sure if used my fear/debuffs he wouldn't be able to kill me.

i def agree on defiler would should've got some heal nerfs if creep defence got buffed up and burgs/hunters don't 1 shot other creeps anymore but i don't think that happened. they only removed inc healing but still burgs can still 1 shot most of the creeps.

[Spilo]

I've already given reasons hes a bad hunter. I dont have to do it repeatedly.

Yeah you are biased you just proved it yourself. Thanks.

No, you never have. If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than aggressively asserting the same conclusion, and doing your best to paint me as a Freep main with zero proof, I'd suggest you stop wasting your time.

Interesting. I haven't kept up with the specific number jumps from pre-mordor. It's been awhile since I logged my defiler. But the general pace of DPS versus defiler healing hasn't seemed to change between the updates from my end of things. That's to say that, it seemed to scale proportionally with each other. But that's probably obvious - lack of scaling with warden DoTs, was counteracted by an unintended nerf to all creep mitigation stats.

As for the hunters jump in numbers though, I'm not sure why they won't be out-dpsing a single defiler, if theyre using standard end game PvE gear. Even factoring in audacity, they should be at similar levels of DPS as to what defilers are performing in HPS. It's been true for years now that hunters have not been able to kill a heal stacked defiler solo, not without either the merc shot set or the heartseeker reset. But, although hunters have lost the merc shot set and the HS reset, they have received very large buffs compared to these times such that they are dealing a far higher proportion of damage to the defiler relative to the defilers HPS.

I'd be interested to see whether a decent hunter could take them out in Red, within a single heartseeker. The strategy using the old merc shot set is probably too dated stat-wise to be effective anymore.



Removed from BFP, or in general? I think there were good reasons to remove it from BFP, entirely. And (imo) the flat value rank 12's and above had was too much, at least compared to any creeps of a lower rank.

It's removed completely. Hurts all creeps, because all heals (pots included) were benefitting from inc healing.

[wretchesandkings]

I don't think it's the problem is with the community's suggestion, but hypothetically if it is the root of the problem...

If the problems really lie in suggesting for balanced changes...then don't suggest for balance, suggest some exaggerated stuff. By SSG's incompetence, there is no way these demands will be met, however, if they can achieve even a fraction of that exaggerated suggestion, it's still more progress than what we're getting now.

Don't suggest to balance pvp because you know it will never happen, but rather anticipate how SSG will act (which is probably releasing a half baked build that doesn't even meet a fraction of demands) then make the suggestions accordingly (ie. if you can't convince a dev to balance pvp, trick him )

[DrRabbitfoot]

And how exactly do you balance for everyone? With such a massive gap in playerskill it is impossible.

You are 100% spot on with this comment. Problem is, they caused the massive gap too.

[DrRabbitfoot]

On Crick at the moment, but that will be changing soon. No doubt I'll be quite rusty against top tier players - I think the last time I fought a really decent warg was back when I was on Elendilmir, right after I transferred from Windy.

So you haven't faced a good warg player in (please let me know) how long? In other words, you are better than countless players over (how would I know?) a long stretch of time. And you haven't committed a tiny fraction of your synaptic output to ponder, just perhaps, only maybe, it's not them but the class you play and the faction you prefer? Do you have any idea how asinine you sound from the opposite side of the table?

[DrRabbitfoot]

I know how to play hunter perfectly well, and it was impossible for me to kill a r8 defiler, despite being in full PvE gear (203k mastery, if I recall correctly). The person playing the defiler had never played one before.

Do you have any idea how many creeps it takes to kill a healing mini?

[DrRabbitfoot]

4 people are still ruining PvMP with these forum threads. 3 are total morons and 1 thinks he's doing something positive by being honest not knowing literally no one else is being honest and his honesty is the only thing the devs are reading and he should just s t f u. Seriously Spilo , s t f u. You have done more to destroy this game than anyone in history and you don't even know it. I'm not kidding. S T F U.

[dselden]

4 people are still ruining PvMP with these forum threads. 3 are total morons and 1 thinks he's doing something positive by being honest not knowing literally no one else is being honest and his honesty is the only thing the devs are reading and he should just s t f u. Seriously Spilo , s t f u. You have done more to destroy this game than anyone in history and you don't even know it. I'm not kidding. S T F U.

Spilo worse than Sapience confirmed.

[siipperi]

Do you have any idea how many creeps it takes to kill a healing mini?

Alone? 2 at top.

[GrandCru]

- If something-that's-not-going-to-happen happens, then pages of posts of why/what-should-be-done.
- Something-that's-not-going-to-happen does not happen (but the opposite does), however why/what-should-be-done is done partially.

What's possibly gone wrong?
Honest!

[Kate00]

No, you never have. If you have nothing to add to the discussion other than aggressively asserting the same conclusion, and doing your best to paint me as a Freep main with zero proof, I'd suggest you stop wasting your time.

Yes I did give examples, if you dont read what i post thats not my fault.


You are biased. I've grouped with you gvg/rvr and you are terrible. You only want to balance things for your nerfed 1v1s on creepside while dominating in the moors on your freep. You aren't calling for mini, beorning, or rk heals which are far more potent than defiler heals. How many more examples of your bias do you require?

Alone? 2 at top.

It takes 2 creeps to kill a very VERY bad mini.

[Giliodor]

- If something-that's-not-going-to-happen happens, then pages of posts of why/what-should-be-done.
- Something-that's-not-going-to-happen does not happen (but the opposite does), however why/what-should-be-done is done partially.

What's possibly gone wrong?
Honest!

Wrong again, I'll correct it for you, don't worry.

- If something-that-needs-to-happen-for-PvMP-to-ever-be-balanced happens, then pages of posts of why/what-should-be-done.
- Something-that-needs-happen does not happen (but it appears as if the opposite does, even though the dev has made no mention of it, and there has been no defiler specific nerf), however why/what-should-be-done is done partially, but could just have been a mistake.

It takes 2 creeps to kill a very VERY bad mini.

It would take at most 3 creeps to kill the best minstrel in the game without the raid relics. I have no idea how those relics will influence PvMP, but a warg + ba + spider would massacre any minstrel if they have any clue. Alternatively, you can put two spiders on a minstrel and wait for him to run out of power.

[Remcosajax]

Yes I did give examples, if you dont read what i post thats not my fault.

You haven't said why whatsoever.

You are biased.

And you are not?

I've grouped with you gvg/rvr and you are terrible.

Subjective and irrelevant. You can actually spot good player in 24v24 fights? Lmao. Still counting pixels.

You only want to balance things for your nerfed 1v1s on creepside while dominating in the moors on your freep.

Wait? What?

You aren't calling for mini, beorning, or rk heals which are far more potent than defiler heals.

Wait.. Beorning and rk heals are FAR more potent than defiler heals? Are we playing the same game? Or are you still patching?

How many more examples of your bias do you require?

One post from you did it.

It takes 2 creeps to kill a very VERY bad mini.

It takes 10 VERY bad creeps to kill one mini

[jomanjy]

It takes 10 VERY bad creeps to kill one mini

^^^^^^^ this....

[Constrictions]

- If something-that's-not-going-to-happen happens, then pages of posts of why/what-should-be-done.
- Something-that's-not-going-to-happen does not happen (but the opposite does), however why/what-should-be-done is done partially.

What's possibly gone wrong?
Honest!

Do you actually follow what's going on in these forums?

Yes I did give examples, if you dont read what i post thats not my fault.


You are biased. I've grouped with you gvg/rvr and you are terrible. You only want to balance things for your nerfed 1v1s on creepside while dominating in the moors on your freep. You aren't calling for mini, beorning, or rk heals which are far more potent than defiler heals. How many more examples of your bias do you require?


It takes 2 creeps to kill a very VERY bad mini.

A warg with Spilo's skill will not struggle to kill most minstrels that play in the moors by himself, or almost by himself. Why do you think you can blame him for bias when you're talking about something that both of us could predict he might not have properly perceived?

Alternatively, it could very well be that his perspective on the issue of minstrel healing is that it is not anywhere near as high a priority for whats needed, at least as far as the most immediate balance needs. Even after seeing the buffs freep healers have gotten from the new runes, I'm very tempted to think this is still the case.

[GrandCru]

Do you actually follow what's going on in these forums?

Get us a wiki link on ''wishful thinking''...




Wait!

- If something-that-needs-to-happen-for-PvMP-to-ever-be-balanced happens, then pages of posts of why/what-should-be-done.

[lance20100]

Leave britney alone!!!

[Hejazia.Arkenstone]

You are biased. I've grouped with you gvg/rvr and you are terrible. You only want to balance things for your nerfed 1v1s on creepside while dominating in the moors on your freep.

Whoa hold on a minute, since when did Spilo and Kate ever exist in the same group? xd
Spilo doesn't even play his freep (he plays LM and burglar, both known for their ability to oneshot) so you're just plain wrong when you say that.

Do I detect a hint of bias from you? (thinking)

[Spilo]

4 people are still ruining PvMP with these forum threads. 3 are total morons and 1 thinks he's doing something positive by being honest not knowing literally no one else is being honest and his honesty is the only thing the devs are reading and he should just s t f u. Seriously Spilo , s t f u. You have done more to destroy this game than anyone in history and you don't even know it. I'm not kidding. S T F U.

So let's just pretend that the devs hired me as consultant for PvP balance, and completely ignored everyone else's feedback. Let's recap what I asked for, and what done:

1. Nerf Crit mag and Buff mastery. DONE!

2. Buff mitigations significantly and/or buff -inc damage for Creeps. Done half way.

3. Buff Critical Defense. Done!

4. Buff Finesse significantly. Not done.

5. Nerf Freep NPCs. Not done.

6. Buff racial traits across the board. Done half way.

7. Nerf Burg/Hunter in the Moors. Not done.

8. Examine standardization of Freeps and Freep armor sets through mandatory Audacity armor. Not done.

9. Put incoming healing back. Not done.


Even in situation when we discusses the position of Defiler heals, I did not mention it once in my specific Bullroarer feedback thread, because it was not on a priority fix list. Therefore Kate's accusation that I'm calling for Defiler heals but not Minstrel heals is unfounded and completely false.

Tell me out of ALL of those suggestions, which one do you think ruined PvP, Milt?

Yes I did give examples, if you dont read what i post thats not my fault.


You are biased. I've grouped with you gvg/rvr and you are terrible. You only want to balance things for your nerfed 1v1s on creepside while dominating in the moors on your freep. You aren't calling for mini, beorning, or rk heals which are far more potent than defiler heals. How many more examples of your bias do you require?


It takes 2 creeps to kill a very VERY bad mini.

No, you never did. You never detailed rotation, you never detailed how his build could have improved, etc. The only thing you said was that he should have CCed, which was proven to be a DPS loss by numerous hunters that chimed in, and also ignored the fact that Defiler CC is a more significant advantage than Hunter CC.

Your feedback is inherently unhelpful because you are a bad player. My LM and 2 DPS friends soloed one of your Croups in time's past, and there are many other situations of your lack of skill. Skill in a game doesn't matter in the big picture. It doesn't matter, because I'm sure you have many accomplishments and skills in real life that are worth very much, perhaps more than what I've ever accomplished. However, unskilled gameplay ALWAYS leads to inaccurate feedback, which is why we disagree so often.

I hope, Kate, if nothing else, you can see that Defiler heals were not even listed in my Bullroarer feedback, and I wouldn't consider asking for Defiler heal SLIGHT nerf without asking for a nerf for Minstrels as well. I really am not biased- I haven't even logged Freep since Mordor went live.

[Kate00]

Your feedback is inherently unhelpful because you are a bad player.

Says the guy who couldnt kill a healing mini with a reaver and left the group to go have a nerfed 1v1 with a burg in the middle of a fight. Remember it only takes 2 dps to kill a mini. Whos bad at the game?

[Spilo]

Says the guy who couldnt kill a healing mini with a reaver and left the group to go have a nerfed 1v1 with a burg in the middle of a fight. Whos bad at the game?

I honestly don't recall that, but it's take a really bad minstrel to lose to a reaver. Either way, I'm not here to call names. Did you read the other stuff I posted?

[Silverking77]

So you haven't faced a good warg player in (please let me know) how long? In other words, you are better than countless players over (how would I know?) a long stretch of time. And you haven't committed a tiny fraction of your synaptic output to ponder, just perhaps, only maybe, it's not them but the class you play and the faction you prefer? Do you have any idea how asinine you sound from the opposite side of the table?

@Constrictions if you are the same as named ingame I found you to be quite killable, not that you were out that much. Sure it resulted in the wargs death everytime with +14k dots, but I think they were good 1v1's,..of course adding Flumpy's bear to the equation resulted in you killing many creeps easily. Just standing up for the fact that there is a number of relevant wargs on Crick as well as other classes we just cant fight the 1shots at the steps where most of the freeps spend their time.

JMHO with respect,

Warpig

[siipperi]

Y
It takes 2 creeps to kill a very VERY bad mini.

If you can select any class and any combo on creep side (like we assume since you use arguments of hunter and burg when something like guardian, LM or minstrel isn't going to come even close to those classes). At top 2 vs lone healing minstrel. If you say anything else you are basically saying you have no clue about mechanics of PvP of creep side.

All you need is 2 spiders and minstrel is out of power within 30 seconds because toxin crits over 1.5k power per tick, minstrel can't remove DoTs fast enough to keep toxin away and it sucks your power in matter of seconds and Minstrels pathetic ~170 power every 2s, ~3k power regen (~50pps) and blue traits isn't enough to compensate this, when spider can easily suck ~300 power per second with toxin alone. So even one spider can drain your power quite effectively.

[Onror]

1. Nerf Crit mag and Buff mastery. DONE!

2. Buff mitigations significantly and/or buff -inc damage for Creeps. Done half way.

3. Buff Critical Defense. Done!

4. Buff Finesse significantly. Not done.

5. Nerf Freep NPCs. Not done.

6. Buff racial traits across the board. Done half way.

7. Nerf Burg/Hunter in the Moors. Not done.

8. Examine standardization of Freeps and Freep armor sets through mandatory Audacity armor. Not done.

9. Put incoming healing back. Not done.

These are excellent suggestions (particularly No. 7). A great pity that they have not been implemented.

[ScribeEzra]

seen some players who have just logged on for the first time since the Mordor update, and we won't be seeing them again either, Thanks to all who's valuble input led to this debacle, you've quite possibly delivered the final bullet to the back of LOTRO PVP's skull and with hindsight it looks like a MERCY KILLING.