How much morale?

[dmaker]

Last night I tried CoS t2 115 for the first time. Me, and RK and a cappy. Me and the RK kept getting one shotted at the boss right after the twins. Duglaberth, or whatever. The RK mentioned that I do not have enough morale and I should up my vitality. I have 58K morale, unbuffed. My tact mit is 71K I have teal ilvl 330 ash gear with all slots filled with t10 PM and a couple with t10 tact mit.

Should I play around with my LI relics or something to try and get my vitality up?

[zipfile]

Was the RK healing?

[RicoFTW]

No need for morale at all and tact mits only needed with certain setup at second boss. I see you have got a great group setup (tanking cappy, rk and hunt). I guess you are probably hitting the boss through his buff which at tier 10 does +100% damage and +100% crit chance iirc so yeah you will get oneshot. With that group setup I would suggest cappy tanking on his own while RK and hunt burn the boss down in 30 seconds. RK stone can cover the first big hit and cappy's IHW will cover the next one, by the time the boss should be dead. Captain tank don't need a healer at all. Guardian depending on group setup.

[dmaker]

Thanks. I guess we didn't have enough dps.

[Caanwick]

Thanks. I guess we didn't have enough dps.

If you are running 330 gear and stacking it with PMast essences, you should have plenty of DPS for your part. Only thing I can think of is if you have defensive pieces in that 330 gear. You can get both at the barter, so make sure you go with offensive stat gear. Then just use essences in swap pieces for mitigations, when needed. What is your PMast at?

[dmaker]

The gear is all offensive. Wyrm gear etc.. My PM is 198K

[Findun]

No need for morale at all and tact mits only needed with certain setup at second boss. I see you have got a great group setup (tanking cappy, rk and hunt). I guess you are probably hitting the boss through his buff which at tier 10 does +100% damage and +100% crit chance iirc so yeah you will get oneshot. With that group setup I would suggest cappy tanking on his own while RK and hunt burn the boss down in 30 seconds. RK stone can cover the first big hit and cappy's IHW will cover the next one, by the time the boss should be dead. Captain tank don't need a healer at all. Guardian depending on group setup.

Guardians also dont need any healting in cos t2c at all. I regularly tank the whole instance as a guardian with a hunter and a RK in the group. I personally think a guardian is the better setup there than a captain, just because of the ability to pull all the ads without losing aggro at all, but i guess captain is the easier way.

[Ethrildar]

No need for morale at all and tact mits only needed with certain setup at second boss.

With that group setup I would suggest cappy tanking on his own while RK and hunt burn the boss down in 30 seconds.

1. 58k is juuuust about enough with a Cappy. I'd aim for higher though, you can easily have 70 with a hope token and 225k mastery, capped crit etc.

2. He's asking for forum advice, for a min-maxed duo playing to really high standards your point is valid but for a normal pug group that really doesn't apply, he should probably get it down the safer way before trying this, particularly if only 190k mastrery(ish).

I personally think a guardian is the better setup there than a captain, just because of the ability to pull all the ads without losing aggro at all, but i guess captain is the easier way.

Cappy is better:

- Rez for the inevitable random death of a DPSer
- Oathies, banner, stance-swap drops time to kill boss by half
- Fellowship protective skills
- Last stand
- Revealing Mark so that no heals are necessary if things are going slower than anticipated

Guard can sure do it, I do with 2 DPS and my Guard all the time, but it's faster and easier with a Cappy on all but the AOE add pulls, which are easy anyway.

[siipperi]

Cappy is better:

- Rez for the inevitable random death of a DPSer
- Oathies, banner, stance-swap drops time to kill boss by half
- Fellowship protective skills
- Last stand
- Revealing Mark so that no heals are necessary if things are going slower than anticipated

Guard can sure do it, I do with 2 DPS and my Guard all the time, but it's faster and easier with a Cappy on all but the AOE add pulls, which are easy anyway.

-Dont have random deaths
-doesnt matter if boss takes 20s longer with guardian, adds take significantly shorter time with way less threat of dying. Last boss very much even on both tanks. Around 2.10 with both.
-guardian can do as well?
-guardian doesnt need last stand... Nor does captain since captain will be red on all 3 bosses, thus no last stand.

Considering we did cos in 14 minutes (whole run from first step till last boss dies, no swapping) at u21.2, before raid sets or best dps relics its safe to say guardian is really good tank in there...

[Ethrildar]

-Dont have random deaths
-doesnt matter if boss takes 20s longer with guardian, adds take significantly shorter time with way less thread of dying. Last boss very much even on both tanks. Around 2.10 with both.
-guardian can do as well?
-guardian doesnt need last stand... Nor does captain since captain will be red on all 3 bosses, thus no last stand.

Considering we did cos in 14 minutes (whole run from first step till last boss dies, no swapping) at u21.2, before raid sets or best dps relics its safe to say guardian is really good tank in there...

Can't guarantee someone isn't going to die every run, nobody is flawless 100% of the time, not even you on your imaginary characters.

The time taken for the instance isn't the problem, 20 additional seconds on a boss that should take ~25 is a massive difference when every 5-10 seconds you're all taking a 50k hit.

Guard's protective skills usually result in the Guard dying.

Cappies shouldn't be red the whole time, that's such a waste of potential.

Read what I wrote, never said Guards are bad for it or can't do (the exact opposite, actually), simply that it's faster and easier with a Cappy.

[siipperi]

Can't guarantee someone isn't going to die every run, nobody is flawless 100% of the time, not even you on your imaginary characters.

The time taken for the instance isn't the problem, 20 additional seconds on a boss that should take ~25 is a massive difference when every 5-10 seconds you're all taking a 50k hit.

Guard's protective skills usually result in the Guard dying.

Cappies shouldn't be red the whole time, that's such a waste of potential.

Read what I wrote, never said Guards are bad for it or can't do (the exact opposite, actually), simply that it's faster and easier with a Cappy.

In no boss guardian takes 50k hit targeted to guardian. Guardian can protect group for good 1.5 min without dying. Only bad guards die if using protective skills, good guardian barely gets hit with t5 stack cashout. Captain being red on bosses is not waste of potential. I disagree it being faster and easier on captain. We have data to show with excellent tank on both classes its extremely close to the point that reliability of guardian preventing deaths and no aggro loss, superior time on add pulls is simply better than little better time on 2 bosses. Sure you can get pretty numbers, but for speed running with reliability guardian is still the best.

[Findun]

I dont agree that its faster with a cappy, ive done multiple runs with cappies, good cappies, cappies that have server first on the new raid, and it was always faster with a guardian. the only threat is the 2nd boss but with shieldwall on the RK and the RK giving DNFTD to the hunter its no problem at all. and i argue that the final boss is way waster with a guardian since the guard can pull all the aggro of all the mobs with absolute no problem and no aggro loss while the 2 DD can 100% focus on their damage.

My experience is, it's way way faster and safer with a guardian.

[Ethrildar]

In no boss guardian takes 50k hit targeted to guardian. Guardian can protect group for good 1.5 min without dying.

all taking a 50k hit.

This is the only bit I can be bothered to reply to, since literally the entirety of your keyboard warrioring on lotro forums is taking people's comments out of context and then arguing with them about it. If you're protecting someone, you're taking what they're taking. Sure it's doable, as I've stated multiple times. It's just way easier and way faster with Oathies and Revealing Mark on 1st and 2nd bosses.

[Eldarond_EU]

My experience is, it's way way faster and safer with a guardian.

Fastest runs are LM+Hunter+Cappy, you can do full CoS 115 t2c in under 15 minutes, as long as your LM is really good and cappy can keep 100% uptime on buffs.