Hi all

[mikkye]

Okay I need answer's plz dev's somebody speak is this rumour of barrage 3 having a 20 second cd true and if so why are you focusing on weakening a class that is handicapped do you not understand what any nerf like anything that make's the hunter weaker rightnow will completely remove it from endgame anything, the state of the class is so fragile right now explain please if have time I need answer's please




Talk to top raiding kin's and get they dps ratio's of their best hunter's rk's burg's then compare to standard dps on regular kin's an get results stop listening to peoples random cries for a class to be nerfed when half server dnt even understand the core of these classes and what it takes to reach certain level's of skill in those classes sighhh



Come on dev's/producer's/community forum manager's somebody i really need to hear you all's PoV because this is just coming to discrimination against a class which has been going on since lotro launched and even with a new studio you still following same path of wanting nerf classes that dont need it














And remember you cant nerf blue and not even further weaken red unless redline passives change not possible even in redline the lump of the dmg comes from pen shot critting + some Swift bow's I presume but again that line i for fast ambush style fighting / moors not sustained so think really hard and actually talk to the hunter's

[Fresuvi]

Okay I need answer's plz dev's somebody speak is this rumour of barrage 3 having a 20 second cd true and if so why are you focusing on weakening a class that is handicapped do you not understand what any nerf like anything that make's the hunter weaker rightnow will completely remove it from endgame anything, the state of the class is so fragile right now explain please if have time I need answer's please




Talk to top raiding kin's and get they dps ratio's of their best hunter's rk's burg's then compare to standard dps on regular kin's an get results stop listening to peoples random cries for a class to be nerfed when half server dnt even understand the core of these classes and what it takes to reach certain level's of skill in those classes sighhh



Come on dev's/producer's/community forum manager's somebody i really need to hear you all's PoV because this is just coming to discrimination against a class which has been going on since lotro launched and even with a new studio you still following same path of wanting nerf classes that dont need it














And remember you cant nerf blue and not even further weaken red unless redline passives change not possible even in redline the lump of the dmg comes from pen shot critting + some Swift bow's I presume but again that line i for fast ambush style fighting / moors not sustained so think really hard and actually talk to the hunter's

Lol

[Harigrim]

Before you complain about something check all the information. Barrage is getting a CD yes, BUT in addiotion they are giving a boost to red line traits. What they are trying with the upcoming is to to balance out each class: they don't want to nerf any class just to nerf it or boost to boost them. Right now from what i heard things are pretty even. Rk's can do a bit higher dmg on training dummies when solo, but they have mitigation reducing skills that hunters don't have.

For these changes the devs also look to the potential of each class, not on how people play it. It has higher DPS then rk's in both PvE and PvP. I wouldn't say at all hunter is hadnicapped in either of these. They have the best damage potential in both PvE and PvP. In solo PvP (open map, not self-nerfed in spars) they also have a number of ways to destroy creeps that other classes don't have. CC, slows, kiting on top of big burst DPS.

If you and other people, as you say, don't know the core of your class and how to play it properly ... i'm sorry to say but what you really should be doing right now is trying to learn to play it and stop whining to give a class a boost or nerf other classes so you can feel OP.

[Caanwick]

Did they say anything about increasing the base damage of Barrage, since adding the CD will effectively eliminate tiering it up at all? And did they mention which redline traits got buffed?

I'm not gonna get too excited, one way or the other, till more info comes out about how this is going to affect us. But, if SSG's end-goal is to have Hunters and RKs balanced purely in terms of DPS, they really need to look into adding more group utility to Hunters. Things like a buff for group outgoing damage and an in-combat rez, because similar skills are what really give RK the nod over Hunter, when DPS is even.

[DKenny]

Well, it's clear that atm blue does substantially more dps than red. Blue is heavily dependent upon barrage to achieve that dps. So it's pretty clear that any nerf to barrage will nerf blue dps and therefore will nerf hunter dps. The only way nerfing barrage will not result in an overall nerf to hunters is if they buff red sufficiently to make it equal to what blue can achieve now. Balancing between red and blue hunter lines, while nice, isn't really the point. If blue is nerfed and red buffed, meeting somewhere in the middle that still leaves the hunter class overall with lower dps. The fact that that new lower dps can be achieved by both red and blue equally won't really matter, as RK with both higher dps and much greater other utility to a group will again become the prohibitively favoured class for ranged dps in groups (as it was pre-U19). So looks like it will be R.I.P. hunters again. Doubly unfortunate, given that it was previously clearly stated that blue hunter and red RK will form the baseline for dps for class balance purposed. Completely ridiculous to start by changing that baseline, although it's not as if this sort of thing hasn't happened before. Then there's the huge question mark regarding their ability to make and test changes such that they work properly. Much more likely they will break things and end up with a bunch of unintended consequences.

[Caanwick]

Before you complain about something check all the information. Barrage is getting a CD yes, BUT in addiotion they are giving a boost to red line traits. What they are trying with the upcoming is to to balance out each class: they don't want to nerf any class just to nerf it or boost to boost them. Right now from what i heard things are pretty even. Rk's can do a bit higher dmg on training dummies when solo, but they have mitigation reducing skills that hunters don't have.

For these changes the devs also look to the potential of each class, not on how people play it. It has higher DPS then rk's in both PvE and PvP. I wouldn't say at all hunter is hadnicapped in either of these. They have the best damage potential in both PvE and PvP. In solo PvP (open map, not self-nerfed in spars) they also have a number of ways to destroy creeps that other classes don't have. CC, slows, kiting on top of big burst DPS.

If you and other people, as you say, don't know the core of your class and how to play it properly ... i'm sorry to say but what you really should be doing right now is trying to learn to play it and stop whining to give a class a boost or nerf other classes so you can feel OP.

Do you play a Hunter? I ask that as a genuine question, not being facetious. I ask because some of the strengths of the class that you point out, are nearly mutually exclusive of each other. If you trait to have even somewhat effective CC and slows, your DPS is going to be seriously denuded. And that isn't even taking into account the current state of most yellow-line skills. The way you stated it is the same as if I said RK's group value comes from top-end DPS and healing, when, realistically, they effectively have one or the other.

[MaxHunter]

I don't mind about back to red again, I'm afraid about back to pre U19...

[gaara908776]

Before you complain about something check all the information. Barrage is getting a CD yes, BUT in addiotion they are giving a boost to red line traits. What they are trying with the upcoming is to to balance out each class: they don't want to nerf any class just to nerf it or boost to boost them. Right now from what i heard things are pretty even. Rk's can do a bit higher dmg on training dummies when solo, but they have mitigation reducing skills that hunters don't have.

For these changes the devs also look to the potential of each class, not on how people play it. It has higher DPS then rk's in both PvE and PvP. I wouldn't say at all hunter is hadnicapped in either of these. They have the best damage potential in both PvE and PvP. In solo PvP (open map, not self-nerfed in spars) they also have a number of ways to destroy creeps that other classes don't have. CC, slows, kiting on top of big burst DPS.

If you and other people, as you say, don't know the core of your class and how to play it properly ... i'm sorry to say but what you really should be doing right now is trying to learn to play it and stop whining to give a class a boost or nerf other classes so you can feel OP.

Where did you get said confirmation regarding specific class changes. So far the devs have been pretty vague. As far as I know the new changes haven't even hit BR yet. So I'm wondering what source you're hearing that barrage is getting a cooldown from.?

[Caanwick]

I don't mind about back to red again, I'm afraid about back to pre U19...

AGREED! I absolutely LOVE the run-and-gun playstyle of blue-line Hunter, but I ran red for years and can do it again. I reserve the right to ##### and moan about having to completely rework our LIs twice in two years, though! The biggest thing is to keep Hunters' value to a group/raid, which was the problem pre-U19.

Now, IF they do effectively force us back to red as our main DPS line, I hope they work the traits and trait set bonuses to make it a little more sustainable. Things like significantly cutting the inductions and/or CDs on some skills would help a lot and make our DPS much less "Peak and Valley", especially with how Crit dependent we are. Something along the lines of halving the induction and CD of SB and cutting 5-10 seconds off CD of MS and US, then adjusting base damage of those skills to reach DPS level they are aiming for.

But if their goal is to have us essentially dead-even with Red RKs for DPS, they really need to look at adding some more group utility. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, adding a significant group outgoing damage buff to one of our skills, or an in-combat rez, would make our value to a group/raid go up substantially.

[mikkye]

Before you complain about something check all the information. Barrage is getting a CD yes, BUT in addiotion they are giving a boost to red line traits. What they are trying with the upcoming is to to balance out each class: they don't want to nerf any class just to nerf it or boost to boost them. Right now from what i heard things are pretty even. Rk's can do a bit higher dmg on training dummies when solo, but they have mitigation reducing skills that hunters don't have.

For these changes the devs also look to the potential of each class, not on how people play it. It has higher DPS then rk's in both PvE and PvP. I wouldn't say at all hunter is hadnicapped in either of these. They have the best damage potential in both PvE and PvP. In solo PvP (open map, not self-nerfed in spars) they also have a number of ways to destroy creeps that other classes don't have. CC, slows, kiting on top of big burst DPS.

If you and other people, as you say, don't know the core of your class and how to play it properly ... i'm sorry to say but what you really should be doing right now is trying to learn to play it and stop whining to give a class a boost or nerf other classes so you can feel OP.

Already learned class and know of each bonus cc they can do, pvp hunt is fine


My biggest issue is having a redline maxed imbued bow right now the highest 30 second parse compared to highest blueline parse is so far off, if they intend make redline stronger they need to do it right or will be a miserable fail like a complete fail, the inductins must be able to produce high enough dmg that its worth using or will simply be qs swift bow proc pen shot +merciful shot for the entire redline rotation which is even more faceroll than blueline


they seriously need to upgrade induction skill's dmg in redline +sometime of bleed to balance it out if they do not intend to kee p blueline best dps for hunter which imo is perfect sicne redline can surely eliminate any foe within seconds in PVP yellow for tough landscape lvling blue for raid's imo
As said dev's talk to the hunter's everyone bu hunt's give they take on these subject's which is funny

[mikkye]

These fact's aswell, before U19 redline was supposed best dps for hunters but as you are fully aware redline cappie's outdpsed redline hunters prior update19 so what you basically wishing is hunter's go back to that state, all you proclaim is nerfing to barrage not giving us what extra buff's traits redline will get


Just wish more hunter main's would comment instead third parties

[Joedangod]

As a matter of curiousity:

Do you Hunter mains truly enjoy the barrage spam playstyle that U19 ushered in or would you prefer if they had simply buffed the pre-U19 playstyle up to the point where it could reasonably compete with RKs (or just nerfed RK's)?

[Giliodor]

when half server dnt even understand the core of these classes and what it takes to reach certain level's of skill in those classes

Just quoting this because it's funny. Hunters have the single most simplistic rotation of any class in this game. Why would you be opposed to having to switch to red for a more dynamic rotation? More importantly: why do you think this is a wrong choice to make?

I don't disagree with the rest of what you're saying in that post, in the sense that hunters shouldn't become worthless. But how do you know they will become worthless? Have you seen what's going to happen to RKs? No? Then don't be so quick to judge. Yes? Then you would know there is no reason for outrage.

These fact's aswell, before U19 redline was supposed best dps for hunters but as you are fully aware redline cappie's outdpsed redline hunters prior update19 so what you basically wishing is hunter's go back to that state, all you proclaim is nerfing to barrage not giving us what extra buff's traits redline will get

Are you serious? Just how terrible of a hunter would it take to be out-dps'ed by captains pre-U19? I'm just going to link to this:

The thing is, hunter's dps currently relies so much on instant Heart-Seeker that it's still better to use the 100 Osgiliath armour over Pelennor (by the way, that 4-set bonus is so bad...) and the same goes for BB jewelry.

If you remove osgiliath HS armour and BB jewelry sets hunter's dps is terrible while we do not even compete with RKs and Wardens with them.

I leveled to 105 some toons on BR and tried parsing for sustain dps on dummies (with store power pots) :
Full 105 gear
105 gear with Induction Bow BB set (slight crit luck on this one)
105 gear with both BB set
Osg HS armour, both BB set and 2 pieces of Pelennor armour

I've had better results with my Champion and my Burgmar while I've barely played those in end game or T2C content :
Champion (3 x 2-set Pelennor heavy armour)
Burglar (4-set Pelennor armour + 2-set Pelennor Warden)
Burglar (3x 2-set Pelennor medium armour)

I'm fine with melee classes being able to dish out slightly higher sustained dps on a dummy than a ranged dps class, but the gap with comparable gear is too much in my opinion.

[Madmanthief]

being as it's first build for BR, things are subject to change. That being said, red line people have been whining for the longest time to have their "god mode turret" hunter back and it "appears" that the devs have listened and are giving you all what you want so you will stop complaining.

[mikkye]

Look mate. Redline hunter dps before buff was lower than redpine captains this is fact


And reason is the way hunter class is setup you can't buff red and make blue weaker because you can spam just as many as and pen shots unllin blue so the theory isn't true


+ I highly doubt hunter induction skills could ever bring about 70k dps + on a boss

[mikkye]

Like every rotation you can do in red line can be done faster and more repeatedly in blue hence any need the blue is needing hunter to worthless not about learning play each line. Red line should never be considered sustained smh line

[Joedangod]

Look mate. Redline hunter dps before buff was lower than redpine captains this is fact

Redline captain is notably one of the lower DPS traitlines. Beats me where you are getting this idea that red hunters have ever had lower DPS from.

[mikkye]

Watch some of the speed runs on YouTube 50k dps from a Red line cappy other 40k at the time redline hunt was doing 20k to 30k

[mikkye]

What do nerds ?? Plz drop be links plz

[Joedangod]

Watch some of the speed runs on YouTube 50k dps from a Red line cappy other 40k at the time redline hunt was doing 20k to 30k

Most Throne speedruns took place post U19 when gear was significantly better, so no, Hunters weren't doing 20k to 30k in red at the time. I seem to recall a few pre-U19 red hunter parses that managed to scrape 50k DPS on Rakothas, was likely a little bit higher on Vadokhar. The post U19 parses were of course in the 70k+ DPS range.

[mikkye]

Most Throne speedruns took place post U19 when gear was significantly better, so no, Hunters weren't doing 20k to 30k in red at the time. I seem to recall a few pre-U19 red hunter parses that managed to scrape 50k DPS on Rakothas, was likely a little bit higher on Vadokhar. The post U19 parses were of course in the 70k+ DPS range.

Thatz key word there after buff but cappies had no buff and still did that type smh while only after hunter buff did they do the speed run still doesn't explain why redline hunt couldn't do that smh but red happy coyld

[Joedangod]

Thatz key word there after buff but cappies had no buff and still did that type smh while only after hunter buff did they do the speed run still doesn't explain why redline hunt couldn't do that smh but red happy coyld

Captains were buffed post U19, every class was since the gear got dramatically better in the following updates. I'm confused, did you actually participate in Throne raiding at all?

[mikkye]

Captains were buffed post U19, every class was since the gear got dramatically better in the following updates. I'm confused, did you actually participate in Throne raiding at all?

Sigh your missing the point even with the greatest gear cap mastery cap crit bb jewels red line dps still is. Wayyyyyyyyyyyy lower than fire tks and burgs so plz explain why support red line hunt

[mikkye]

Also plz plz explain to me the benefit of archers. Blood arrow -5 CD from archers aka redline hunter set bonus will attain to higher dps. If we lose rapid fire CD set bonus usefulness rip rip rip. Like omg do why are you guys acting like redline is the answer...

[SpicyMacHaggis]

Also plz plz explain to me the benefit of archers. Blood arrow -5 CD from archers aka redline hunter set bonus will attain to higher dps. If we lose rapid fire CD set bonus usefulness rip rip rip. Like omg do why are you guys acting like redline is the answer...

The real question would be: why do you act like you know what you're talking about?

Your posts clearly state the opposite.