Class Update - Hunters

[DKenny]

Remember everyone, when you finally get class balancing underway after years, ....

....be careful what you wish for, because you might get it.

[Oelle]

Ok. I don't do that. For me that is like cheating.

If it were intended to be used without traiting that line, they would be base skills.

If prefight traitswapping wasnt intended, they hadnt given Minstrels the ability to use all anthems with 3min duration with the last patch.
If they wanted decisions to happen, they'd force Minstrels to decide if they either want anthem of war from redline OR higher tactmits and aoeHoT from yellow. Now, people just use their red or yellow line prefight, buff all anthems, switch to healing and heal... most fights dont last >3min.
Obviously and clearly, if they wanted to stop traitswapping while having anthems permanently, they'd have converted the anthem bonusses to auras.

[Tatharil]

If prefight traitswapping wasnt intended, they hadnt given Minstrels the ability to use all anthems with 3min duration with the last patch.
If they wanted decisions to happen, they'd force Minstrels to decide if they either want anthem of war from redline OR higher tactmits and aoeHoT from yellow. Now, people just use their red or yellow line prefight, buff all anthems, switch to healing and heal... most fights dont last >3min.
Obviously and clearly, if they wanted to stop traitswapping while having anthems permanently, they'd have converted the anthem bonusses to auras.

I know it is legal as long as it is this way... it just feels like cheating for me. Morally wrong, not juridically wrong.

[Oelle]

I know it is legal as long as it is this way... it just feels like cheating for me. Morally wrong, not juridically wrong.

I'm totally with you there.
And I thought, SSG would be, too... but recent minstrel changes say: "We want everyone to switch traitlines as much as possible". Weird, huh?

[Snowlock]

I'm totally with you there.
And I thought, SSG would be, too... but recent minstrel changes say: "We want everyone to switch traitlines as much as possible". Weird, huh?

To recreate LI's, to buy LI #### from the store...

[Oelle]

To recreate LI's, to buy LI #### from the store...

that may be related to weaponswitching infight. Thats another issue, I'd like to see vanish. Just doesnt make sense for a champion to switch weapons for every second skill to get higher dps than one that stays with one weapon through a fight. sheathing and unsheathing should take too much time to be worth switching weapons for dps. but yep, in that case I see how LI system money may stop them from "fixing whats not broken".

[Macroscian]

God your annoying

That was a *you're.
Swapping traits though. If that's how long one field mob fight is intended to be, I'm out.
If that's the intended use for yellow, I'm out as well.
Quote from my raid leader about yellow, ace woman that she is "Why are you hitting like a little girl?"

[Tatharil]

Lingering Wound has no focus cost, so when I fixed the tiering I needed to put some modest limits on it - thus the 3s cooldown and the lower instant damage.

Its base damage is pretty 'meh' - but its sustained T4 damage is high and can be easily sustained with little effort. As such it's not a great landscape skill unless you're fighting something unusually tough, but it's a solid skill for instance runs where it can be tossed into a longer rotation without costing you focus that you can put into harder hitting skills.

The longer bleed uptime also means that a skilled hunter can still maintain the bleed on multiple targets if they are so inclined.

As always, whether you choose to use the skill is entirely up to you. Lingering Wound is mostly designed as a high efficiency sustained bleed skill for use against elites/bosses - not a generic spam skill.

-Vastin

I appreciate, that you are trying to make it competitive (or better, cause it is the core bleed skill of the traitline specialising in bleeds and support) to other Hunter bleeds, but LW is still weaker than Barbed Arrow, Exsanguinate and HS. For those multiple targets fights, you have mentioned, it is more efficient to use BA. If those targets even survive long enough to apply 3 bleeds.



Those 3 bleeds hit way harder (initial hit and have other advantages over LW). Especially Barbed Arrow (even more so in blue line) has too many advantages or LW too many disadvantages.

Fire and Light oil: Barbed Arrow benefits, LW doesn't
Critical damage multiplyer legacies: BA benefits, LW doesn't
Bleed duration: BA lasts 20% longer than LW
CD: BA CD is half as long
Initial hit: BA initial damage is a lot higher
Focus generating: BA does always generate focus(+ deadly precision if traited), LW doesn't (except Deadly precision on crit)
Legacies: BA does benefits from the 29,x% induction legacy, LW legacy adds 15% damage to the neglegible initial hit.
Damage: LW tier 1-2 deal less damage than BA, LW tier 4 deals 15% higher tooltip damage than BA. Adding all those advantages that BA has BA does more damage. Blue hunter'S BA tooltip damage is even higher than LW tier 4. You need 6!!!! seconds to reach the same tooltip bleed damage as BA in reality it will be lower(legacies and fire/light disadvantage) and 9 seconds to be slightly higher.
Strength stance: BA benefits, LW doesn't.
Induction: BA has an induction, LW doesn't. (The only advantage LW has and causes some of the disadvantages -> strength stance, legacies)

Before U22 LW was worth it to be used between induction and focus skills, now it isn't. If you want to use bleeds... trait blue with red for HS or even better red with blue up to exsa and barbed fury. You will have stronger bleeds than yellow(and better support and almost comparable CC)... but won't need them, because your non-bleed damage will kill everything before you have applied 2 bleeds.

[mikkye]

Ummm what?

I wasnt talking about traits i was talking about weps...but ima assume thats a typo

I use 2 Li's on my hunter i switch through them i do about 120-130k on boss on average, im fine with the way thing are now

Listen bro you have to be very very specific I understand that dps during first 45 seconds to 2 minutes but sustained when boss drops not possible


When you throw out numbers of this magnitude you make rk's burg's champs feel like they deal no dmg whatsoever when that's not the case plz throw accurate total parses when mention things on forum

[Tatharil]

Dear Vastin

A lot of water flowed down the Anduin since
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...75#post7839675

Are there any news about Trapper of Foes?

1. I understand it is the Beornings turn to get their update, but can we get a rough timeline when to expect the long overdue Trapper of Foes update?
2. Did you discuss Trapper of Foes role yet?
3. Will it keep its role (offensive debuffs and CC) and if it does, will it get better and more reliable tools to fulfill this role?

Thanks in advance.

[valgorlim]

I get that the class changes were needed for balance . I hope that huntsman dps will remain close enough to bowmaster but not better .. in game as a huntsman I have jumped through every hoop you have asked with no complaint.

[Tatharil]

Dear Vastin.

So Minstrel and Burglar are the next in line, which is ok.

Are there any news about Trapper of Foes?

I understand there may not be many details about it yet, but what about a rough date and direction?

- Which direction are you aiming for Trapper of Foes? improve support (more reliable way to apply debuffs, more reliable CC *cough* Distracting Shot *cough*)

- When is Trapper of Foes turn? spring? summer? autumn?.... or maybe 2020?

Thanks in advance.

[Oelle]

btw... +10% critchance debuff from penshot is OP. and should be yellow line, not in red.

[Tatharil]

btw... +10% critchance debuff from penshot is OP. and should be yellow line, not in red.

Totally agree. said it often enough when this change was made. Red has better support than yellow right now.
Archer's Mark, Penetrating Shot. Yellow has some nice debuffs, but they are very clunky to use(CD, ground targeted, hard to control which foe triggers trap) and Deadly Decoy causes more harm than it helps in groups and doesn't survive long enough to apply inc. crit chance debuff.

We already discussed it often enough. I'd just like to know, when the Trapper of Foes' balance pass is roughly scheduled and which direction it will take.

[Macroscian]

Totally agree. said it often enough when this change was made. Red has better support than yellow right now.
Archer's Mark, Penetrating Shot. Yellow has some nice debuffs, but they are very clunky to use(CD, ground targeted, hard to control which foe triggers trap) and Deadly Decoy causes more harm than it helps in groups and doesn't survive long enough to apply inc. crit chance debuff.

We already discussed it often enough. I'd just like to know, when the Trapper of Foes' balance pass is roughly scheduled and which direction it will take.

It will not happen. Half a decade is too long a wait.
"Let's make yellow deal no damage and have no focus generation and add awkward cooldowns and make just a couple of skills useable on the move"

I can't play the trait tree at all now, working at a keyboard by day there is no way I can play a hunter with such awkward controls.
Give me back one lazy option. I used to have half damage output and zero hurting wrists, now the trait tree is 1/5 the damage output AND hurting wrists.
Blue with bad CDs is the same. Dame is good enough thoug, even if half of red. Red makes my wrists into a mess within minutes. No go zone.

Me not paying a sub is a fart in the wind compared to eleventy usd revenue from lootboxing.

Did you notice how eerily quiet regular was when visiting? Waited 5 minutes and said Hellowsies. A minute later had a reply.

[Tatharil]

Dear Vastin.

So Minstrel and Burglar are the next in line, which is ok.

Are there any news about Trapper of Foes?

I understand there may not be many details about it yet, but what about a rough date and direction?

- Which direction are you aiming for Trapper of Foes? improve support (more reliable way to apply debuffs, more reliable CC *cough* Distracting Shot *cough*)

- When is Trapper of Foes turn? spring? summer? autumn?.... or maybe 2020?

Thanks in advance.

4 months later, same questions.
1 year after https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...75#post7839675 I'd like to get some news about Trapper of Foes.

[Tatharil]

Dear Vastin.

So Minstrel and Burglar are the next in line, which is ok.

Are there any news about Trapper of Foes?

I understand there may not be many details about it yet, but what about a rough date and direction?

- Which direction are you aiming for Trapper of Foes? improve support (more reliable way to apply debuffs, more reliable CC *cough* Distracting Shot *cough*)

- When is Trapper of Foes turn? spring? summer? autumn?.... or maybe 2020?

Thanks in advance.

One year later, not even a word about Trapper of Foes.

[Strider5548]

One year later, not even a word about Trapper of Foes.

I've seen all your posts asking for an update, months apart, it's sad to see no response.

I tried running yellow the other day. I did some solo play as well as ran a T3 harrowing. It was the worst thing I've ever experience on my hunter. Everything is so weak, the bleeds are terrible, the traps are terrible, the survivability is terrible, the CC is terrible, and the DPS is terrible (I was doing around 20-25k on average).

If I tried running the instance without my kinnies I would have been booted. Think about that for a second.

Hunters really need an overhaul that is focused on BUFFS not nerfs. Yellow has the possibility of being raid viable, it COULD be an awesome debuff/cc class with DoT based DPS. I think blue will never see raids unfortunately, but it can still be a great PvMP, solo, and small instance line with increased DPS and increased survivability. Red should be the strongest ST DPS line (and class imo) with limited mobility.

[Tatharil]

I've seen all your posts asking for an update, months apart, it's sad to see no response.

I tried running yellow the other day. I did some solo play as well as ran a T3 harrowing. It was the worst thing I've ever experience on my hunter. Everything is so weak, the bleeds are terrible, the traps are terrible, the survivability is terrible, the CC is terrible, and the DPS is terrible (I was doing around 20-25k on average).

If I tried running the instance without my kinnies I would have been booted. Think about that for a second.

Hunters really need an overhaul that is focused on BUFFS not nerfs. Yellow has the possibility of being raid viable, it COULD be an awesome debuff/cc class with DoT based DPS. I think blue will never see raids unfortunately, but it can still be a great PvMP, solo, and small instance line with increased DPS and increased survivability. Red should be the strongest ST DPS line (and class imo) with limited mobility.

Thanks. I gave up more or less. Lack of response from blue side and lack of support from fellow hunters. I assume it is too comfortable to nurture the victim myth of having no secondary role and support for groups. Having a competitive supporting trait line takes away the argument "but we can only do single target dps, so let us be the best at it"

[Arabani]

The Yellow line is a great fun to play and it suits a hobbit hunter....unfortunately the line is garbage. Please fix it.