U23.2 Beorning Class Update Feedback

[Mithlanros]

red line is losing a huge chunk of wrath generation from the cooldown change to composure, can bee swarm be a free to cast wrath generator?

[Naranor]

If monster hits 100000, character with 60% "mitigation type" will receive 40000
with 78% "mitigation type" - 22000.
It's 45% different and beorn will has this mitigation 100% time.
For example cappy in same situation with 60% "mitigation type" and 5% "mitigation source"(100% time) + 15% "mitigation source"(around 75%-95%time depends from player and game situation, 95%-maximum and impossible, 80% time - real numbers) + 15% "mitigation source" (41.5% time) 5+15+15=35%(23,2% average with cooldown) "mitigation source" will receive 26000 minimum and average 30720. Difference beatwean 22000 and 26000/30720 are crazy.

Each aditional "mitigation type" % reduce incoming damage more than % before it(with 98% "mitigation type" aditional 1%mt=50%). Please remove +5% mitigation from traitline and replace "mitigation type" with "mitigation source" at new mitigation set.

[Timberfox]

I was able to experience this tonight. It looks and feels pretty good. One suggestion, is to color the icon, perhaps, light green (similar to Hearten) to distinguish it from Skin-Change.

[Happychappy]

I think the Composure nerf maybe a little to much, even with heavy armour.

A Runekeeper can heal 30% health every 15 seconds. Thats 360% of health healed in a 3 minute period. They are light armour but are a ranged class with very high dps.

A hunter can heal 20% every 15 seconds. Thats 240% of health healed in a 3 minute period from a skill thats also in the attack rotation. This does not include Press onwards heal of 30% every 45 seconds for an extra 120%. Total of 360% in a 3 minute period. They are medium armour, though they can trait for high mitigation with survival gear trait. Its a ranged class with the best dps in the game and can go fully mobile if required also.

The Beorning Composure proposal would be a 5% heal every second for 8 seconds on a 30 second cool down. Thats a 40% heal every 30 seconds. A total of 240% health healed only. They are a melee class in Heavy armour.

These ideas might be better...

1) I think composure should either tick 10 times instead of 8.
2) Reduce the cool down to 24 seconds and not 30 seconds.
3) Turn Composure into a 3 tier trait. Tier 1 is 2%, tier 2 is 4% and tier 3 is 6% health healed or something similar.

You could get 2 heartens in the time of one composure. what would be the point in composure?

[Timberfox]

Why does Bracing Roar have a 30 minute cool down? Wouldn't 3 minutes be far more useful?

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

Each aditional "mitigation type" % reduce incoming damage more than % before it(with 98% "mitigation type" aditional 1%mt=50%).

OMG THANK YOU, someone who finally understands how borked mitigations are in general at the moment.... thank you so much for existing, im not being sarcastic, there are way too many people who don't understand this super fundamental elementary-school level concept.


mitigation buffs/debuffs need a close look across the board.

A Runekeeper can heal 30% health every 15 seconds. Thats 360% of health healed in a 3 minute period. They are light armour but are a ranged class with very high dps.

A hunter can heal 20% every 15 seconds. Thats 240% of health healed in a 3 minute period from a skill thats also in the attack rotation. This does not include Press onwards heal of 30% every 45 seconds for an extra 120%. Total of 360% in a 3 minute period. They are medium armour, though they can trait for high mitigation with survival gear trait. Its a ranged class with the best dps in the game and can go fully mobile if required also.

The Beorning Composure proposal would be a 5% heal every second for 8 seconds on a 30 second cool down. Thats a 40% heal every 30 seconds. A total of 240% health healed only. They are a melee class in Heavy armour.

see the above post by the enlightened individual.... heavy armour and high mitigation cap make that heal worth a LOT more (order of magnitude more) for the heavy armour beorn than the light armour RK

[Oelle]

red line is losing a huge chunk of wrath generation from the cooldown change to composure, can bee swarm be a free to cast wrath generator?

not needed, if bearform does no longer consume wrath over time.
composure/hearten animation is roughly as long as two simple attacks.
when switching bear-man-bear, you have time for hearten/composure plus 2 attacks or 4 attacks.
hearten/composure gives you 20 wrath, 2 attacks are minimum 10 wrath, but easily more.
realistically, you'll use attacks for 15 wrath instead of composure and the 5 missed wrath generation should be overcompensated by no more wrath decay in bearform.

[Blato]

The direct HoT may well be a bit too powerful as is. I'm tweaking it a bit (slightly longer cooldown, slightly lower heal magnitude) - but I'd rather not inadvertently nerf bear healing into the ground.

This is something I'm going to take one step at a time on palantir and bullroarer and see where the new values fall before making another round of changes.

-Vastin

Considering the huge nerf to Relentless Heal and the HoT needing to be stacked up + only works on target with Mark of Grimbeorn i dont think a nerf is warranted.

What needs a nerf is the Abyss set bonus, i think that's very clear.

[Hildilas]

That's certainly one of the solutions we've been discussing in-house, as it is much easier to gauge and scale such effects, and probably wouldn't be very hard to shift over to in most cases.

-Vastin

Pls don't forgert about the warden's defiant challenge ~700 reflect damage ..pls...^^ Warden not finished yet! Terrible heals still! No panic still! Could need inc healing as well :P Every class or none.

on topic:
About sets: AGAIN don't let us use them on lvl 120. And change it for mordor content.
I also don't think that reflect as we have it is anything near game breaking. It's nice to have. Not worthy of putting time into it tbh...

[Timberfox]

On further reflection, I was wondering if you could use some of the same code as is used for the Hunter ability Find the Path and add the shape change to it? If modifying that code could work, you would get the out-of-combat speed boost, bear form fighting (without needing to address any other shape change OR pre-fight Wrath generation), and a return to buffed movement speed once combat ends and you could basically replace Skin-Change when Wanderlust becomes available. This would also result in less clutter on the action bar, and less clunky execution all around, since you would need only once icon, instead of two.

When it is not toggled, you are in Man form, when it is toggled you are in bear form and the choice is always the player's as to which form they want to be in. No more being forced out of bear form due to a lack of Wrath. Everything would work smoothly.

[Sarthien90]

The direct HoT may well be a bit too powerful as is. I'm tweaking it a bit (slightly longer cooldown, slightly lower heal magnitude) - but I'd rather not inadvertently nerf bear healing into the ground.

This is something I'm going to take one step at a time on palantir and bullroarer and see where the new values fall before making another round of changes.

-Vastin

The HoT is a bit too strong, I agree with that. But please, don't play with cooldowns on it. Beorning has only 4 (!) healing skills (Relentless Maul is currently broken on Bullroarer, because it heals only around 600 Morale, and doesn't heal the Beorning casting it since Mordor (or longer?)) and Encouraging Roar is one of two (!) skills with which you can heal your tank properly. It has 3 seconds cooldown already.

And I agree with people saying we should not be able to wear old armour, no matter the class.

[Happychappy]

OMG THANK YOU, someone who finally understands how borked mitigations are in general at the moment.... thank you so much for existing, im not being sarcastic, there are way too many people who don't understand this super fundamental elementary-school level concept.


mitigation buffs/debuffs need a close look across the board.





see the above post by the enlightened individual.... heavy armour and high mitigation cap make that heal worth a LOT more (order of magnitude more) for the heavy armour beorn than the light armour RK

I understand that. But a RK has massively more healing than a Beorning is currently going to get. Ranged >>>> melee in this game. Rk is big dps and some utility. I am not asking for a RK nerf lol, but i do think the Beorning Composure is slightly over nerfed in comparison to other classes.

Why pick out the RK anyway? Why not pick out the hunter in medium armour 50% with 8% on top with survival gear totalling 58%, 2% behind the Beorning, They are ranged, Fully mobile if required highest dps with different damage types that has far more healing than the current Beorning will have.

Melee should not be more dps as that would give imbalance when picking dps slots. But they should have more survival to be able to go toe to toe with mobs. A ranged class can avoid so much damage by just being at ranged and even being able to kite/move.

All is relevant not just mitigation. High dps, ranged>>>melee, mobility, CC etc should all be considered too.

Based on that i say the composure change is too much and needs a slight tweak. Why would anyone spec it when you can get 2x Heartens in the same time? will become a useless trait. The beorning does NOT need more useless traits.

[Drizzels]

I understand that. But a RK has massively more healing than a Beorning is currently going to get. Ranged >>>> melee in this game. Rk is big dps and some utility. I am not asking for a RK nerf lol, but i do think the Beorning Composure is slightly over nerfed in comparison to other classes.

Why pick out the RK anyway? Why not pick out the hunter in medium armour 50% with 8% on top with survival gear totalling 58%, 2% behind the Beorning, They are ranged, Fully mobile if required highest dps with different damage types that has far more healing than the current Beorning will have.

Melee should not be more dps as that would give imbalance when picking dps slots. But they should have more survival to be able to go toe to toe with mobs. A ranged class can avoid so much damage by just being at ranged and even being able to kite/move.

All is relevant not just mitigation. High dps, ranged>>>melee, mobility, CC etc should all be considered too.

Based on that i say the composure change is too much and needs a slight tweak. Why would anyone spec it when you can get 2x Heartens in the same time? will become a useless trait. The beorning does NOT need more useless traits.

Currently on Br in the new raid T2 a beorning is doing well over 30k single target hps+over 100k raid hps.
Nothing an rk/mini can even got close to

[Happychappy]

Currently on Br in the new raid T2 a beorning is doing well over 30k single target hps+over 100k raid hps.
Nothing an rk/mini can even got close to

lol. I guess you are talking about a yellow trait beorning healing. Whilst i have mentioned COMPOSURE numerous times which is a red trait dps line. :P

Subtle difference.

[Drizzels]

lol. I guess you are talking about a yellow trait beorning healing. Whilst i have mentioned COMPOSURE numerous times which is a red trait dps line. :P

Subtle difference.

sorry

[zipfile]

DPS target dummy says, 'Thy DPS was 62,474.535 per second!'

That's a red Beorning parse. Well then....I think they need another buff [/s]

[laughatdo0m]

I will miss having the ability to win spars as a blue bear by slotting only vitality, no mitigations/avoidances, traiting deep into redline for composure, and spamming taunt for the reflect affect. But if they are going to reduce the reflect's strength by moving strength elsewhere, I'm perfectly fine with this. Running this masochist build doesn't work in instances though... and I don't think Bear-Reflect, Guardian-Redirect, or LM-Wind-Lore on a tank are really doing significant damage anyway (since the damage reflected is after all your mitigations/avoidances). At least it hasn't in any of my runs of raids/instances as a Bear/Captain tank. Maybe someone can prove me wrong here?

In regard to changing the Abyss raid set; how about putting a 119 Maximum level on all the Abyss armor (and BB Jewelry/Pelennor/Osgiliath sets) so that no one will be abusing it at maximum level? If people couldn't use old sets for end-game content then you wouldn't have to have class-defining traits on outdated (or in the case of Pelennor/Osgiliath, Unobtainable) gear. Then you could put these class-defining bonuses into trait trees where they belong.

[laughatdo0m]

Melee should not be more dps as that would give imbalance when picking dps slots. But they should have more survival to be able to go toe to toe with mobs. A ranged class can avoid so much damage by just being at ranged and even being able to kite/move.

With how they've been designing instances/raids lately; melee classes should 100% have higher DPS than ranged classes to compensate the fact that you never get the chance to stay in melee to do damage (with the exception of Sagrog). In a perfect world, I would agree with you.

[Vastin]

I have a beorning bug that I don't think has been mentioned yet. It has special conditions to happen as well but I know what those conditions are.
Bear Relentless maul icon bug- the relentless maul icon on quickslot bar will be on cooldown but the icon animation(faded but lighting up clockwise slowly) will reset to be completely lit up. The skill however will still be on cooldown.

...

Please fix this bug and thank you for your time.
EDIT: I have also submitted a ticket for this bug to be fixed with all the same info.

Alas, I'm all too aware of this bug - it drives me nuts when I'm playing. Unfortunately I have smacked my head against it a couple times now without avail. It's a weird one.

I had to put it aside for now, but fear not, I'll take another swing at it.

-Vastin

[ShellWrath]

Vastin, any idea when more upcoming bear changes will be avail to test on Bullroarer?

[laughatdo0m]

Alas, I'm all too aware of this bug - it drives me nuts when I'm playing. Unfortunately I have smacked my head against it a couple times now without avail. It's a weird one.

I had to put it aside for now, but fear not, I'll take another swing at it.

-Vastin

For what its worth regarding this bug, if you hover over the skill it will accurately show the remaining cooldown even though the indicator isn't correct.

[Happychappy]

sorry

All good

[Antophant]

DPS target dummy says, 'Thy DPS was 62,474.535 per second!'

That's a red Beorning parse. Well then....I think they need another buff [/s]

I'm finding it hard to believe that 62k+ dps parse when I'm struggling to get 50k dps with 215% phys mast (304k), 30% crit (247.8k crit rating) and a 2H LI with 300+ more DPS as I created it last week so it's still affected by the extra tiers.

DPS target dummy says, 'Thou didst maintain a DPS of 51,037.8 over the last three minutes of our momentous conflict!' That's my best so far while my average is 49k.


If I created another LI with the correct DPS my parses would be in the 42-43k range while a warden I watched parsed 72k on a dummy and my hunter is doing an average of 64k in lesser gear.

[zipfile]

I'm finding it hard to believe that 62k+ dps parse when I'm struggling to get 50k dps with 215% phys mast (304k), 30% crit (247.8k crit rating) and a 2H LI with 300+ more DPS as I created it last week so it's still affected by the extra tiers.

DPS target dummy says, 'Thou didst maintain a DPS of 51,037.8 over the last three minutes of our momentous conflict!' That's my best so far while my average is 49k.


If I created another LI with the correct DPS my parses would be in the 42-43k range while a warden I watched parsed 72k on a dummy and my hunter is doing an average of 64k in lesser gear.

On #2 BR build, legacies are kept at 74, while on #1 they were raised to 79, which includes main hand damage.
If you raised your LIs to max, but then get rolled back, your main hand wouldn't get lowered. The damage disparity can be atributed to that.
Also, from my observations of the player (Unknown was the name of this Beorning), he spent a vast majority of time in Bear form, prioritizing Bash bleed, which he kept at min 2x stacked, with there being short moments of 3 Bash bleeds.

[laughatdo0m]

Still existing bugs:
Depending on if you trait Enraging Sacrifice or not, Sacrifice will not last the full 20s.
If you trait both Blue and Yellow bee swarm debuffs, only the blue debuff will be applied.
Mark of Grimbeorn can be resisted and B/P/E'd by mobs