U23.2 Burglar Class Update Feedback

[Flintryth]

The stackability is partly things I was trying to involve...

yes too many Imp CA will be overpowered but.. with what I was also on about lets also think about how the tic rates goes rom the downgrade of the Stealthed Imp CA to the lower FA CA

off hand being ive not logged in a while - Imp Stealthed bleed lasts approx. 40-45secs (with buffs), FA Bleed lasts 30secs (with buffs) - this is an overall damage reduction of near 1/3 due to the downgrade of one bleed from a screwed up game mechanic.


The main focus is to have the Stealth CA bleed to be its own separate bleed that is not effected by other skills other than refreshed from using hips then doing stealthed CA.


This does not make it overpowered nor does it make CA bleeds overpowered

Think about it on the basis of leading a skill rotation with CA - we burgs do this to get that one real heavy long lasting bleed on a mob - we then get a early FA in soon after to gain the extra personal buffs it gives us - its then a matter of ignoring using CA again knowing that you lose the long lasting big bleed or use it and hope that a lower damage and shorter length to do itsjob

[luckygirl1]

Nice Class Update

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Release-Notes

[Elwenwing]

Looks like reveal weakness won't stack 2 times either then.

I have little hope any of the not working changes got fixed for the update, but I guess we will see tomorrow!

@Friendlyhat, if you are reading this then please reconsider your stance on posting in the feedback forums. I believe actual feedback from the developer in the feedback forums, and the dialogue that will follow, can make the discussion and the class work that results from it much more productive. Just have a look at the Beorning class feedback forum!

Well... According to the patch notes at least they normalized the progression of our flash of light damage...

[Hildilas]

Looks like reveal weakness won't stack 2 times either then.

I have little hope any of the not working changes got fixed for the update, but I guess we will see tomorrow!

@Friendlyhat, if you are reading this then please reconsider your stance on posting in the feedback forums. I believe actual feedback from the developer in the feedback forums and the dialogue that results from that can make the discussion and the class work that results from it much more productive. Just have a look at the Beorning class feedback forum!

Well... According to the patch notes at least they normalized the progression of our flash of light damage...

True. The classes of the Dev who is talking and listening to us get better and more balanced while friendlyhat's
Classes get some okayish changes and nerfs. Not only the Burglar - who actually has a spot in raids, but esp wardens.
I play both so don't get me wrong
Kinda sry to say that but give vastin the time he needs and let him do all classes. Not every class needs
a big Update Like the Beo. IMO the warden just needs longer selfbuffs and a good Panic. That is nothing compared to the Beo.
Of course they are Always working on the classes but I get the Feeling that the next changes will be with Update 24 ....

[Drizzels]

Did a few parses in redline and dps is the same as BEta #1 and Beta #2.

So the burgler skill and bleed dmg increase still is not implemented at all.

I really doubt its in the patch tomorrow

[Snobs]

Did a few parses in redline and dps is the same as BEta #1 and Beta #2.

So the burgler skill and bleed dmg increase still is not implemented at all.

I really doubt its in the patch tomorrow

You can simply look it up in the tooltips. It hasn't happened in Build#1 when it actually was announced in the release notes and it wasn't fixed later in the following builds. At this point, I'm not even sure if the devs have even noticed that it was missing on the test server despite them saying it in the release notes. There has been 0 communication so far, it appears the devs are straight up ignoring this issue because it has been posted many times now and if they're gonna release the update tomorrow without the promised damage compensation, things are gonna get real.

[BlackBeret92]

I like most of the changes, except somehow nerfing dps by ~10% instead of buffing it,but not a single bugged burg skill was fixed either. The second hit of flashing blades still hits too low, both trick counter defence and provoke's crit chance debuff still dont apply to stats, Clever Retort is still so awful that it isnt worth traiting, trickster's double trick still can change if you hit another trick immediately after on single mobs. At this point just fixing the damage would be *good enough*, but for waiting so long to have 1 week of testing and 0 changes made to it according to *any* feedback is honestly a joke.

[Flintryth]

You can simply look it up in the tooltips. It hasn't happened in Build#1 when it actually was announced in the release notes and it wasn't fixed later in the following builds. At this point, I'm not even sure if the devs have even noticed that it was missing on the test server despite them saying it in the release notes. There has been 0 communication so far, it appears the devs are straight up ignoring this issue because it has been posted many times now and if they're gonna release the update tomorrow without the promised damage compensation, things are gonna get real.

Its straight up the DEVS are not even looking at this thread - to my recollection on each and every other thread in past the devs have participated in the conversations on updating the classes.

I know I havnt been about much due to personal circumstances - but those that know me as a Burg player and streamer for the official channel I CANNOT in all good conscience play the burg while things are being screwed up in this style, let alone the lack of respect the Devs are giving us with zero feedback nor changes that are being brought up by us the players considering I dont think a SINGLE DEV even knows how to play a Burg

With this in mind can I point out that 2 Dev's have made 7 comments in the last 24 hours in relation to Beornings compared to the 0 Comments on Burgs

[Areyekuwe]

Text of the notes on the update, good update. But honestly there is next to NOTHING in here, we expect quite a bit more, after all we are the stubborn people that still play this class, no matter how usefull we imagine it to be. We would like more, please. And reading this thread one can see a whole lot of feedback....

Burglar
Reveal Weakness's cooldown has been reduced from 5 seconds to 2 seconds.
Find Footing ONLY performs a CC break. The cooldown has been reduced to 120 seconds; Combat State breakouts for other classes have a much shorter cooldown. The Burglar needed its skill aligned, but for balance purposes we had to remove the bonus application of the "Touch and Go" effect.
Touch and Go: Restores 50% Morale, +25% Evade Chance, +15% Physical Mitigation, +15% Tactical Mitigation. Duration reduced to 10 seconds; Evade is not as helpful as direct mitigation in instances and raids, so we wanted to balance out some of the defensive bonuses. We also upped the heal from 25% of Max Morale to 50% because Burglar's medium armour makes them susceptible to big hits.
Debuff Duration from Burglar Skill "All In" reduced from 15 seconds --> 10 seconds.
Yellow Line Trait Opportunism damage increased.
"Reveal Weakness" Imbued Legacy now caps at 7.5% at Rank 64. This legacy has become overgrown, and for the sake of Instance and Raid balance it needs to be trimmed back some.
Skill "Reveal Weakness" no longer stacks.
Skill "Reveal Weakness" now debuffs target Finesse, Critical Defence, and Resistance as part of the base skill.
The Gambler Set Bonus "Reveal Weakness" now increases its namesake skill's Finesse Debuff by 50%.
The Quiet Knife Set Bonus "Reveal Weakness" now increases its namesake skill's Critical Defence Debuff by 50%.
The Mischief-maker Set Bonus "Reveal Weakness" now increases its namesake skill's Resistance Debuff by 50%.
Imbued Legacy "Reveal Weakness Incoming Damage" now enhances Reveal Weakness debuff ratings for Critical Defence, Resistance, and Finesse starting at rank 65.
Skill damage and DoT damage increased. With reveal weakness decreasing in potency, Burglar damage needed to increase to compensate.

One liner in a way of reaction: "Let's keep our fingers crossed" Especially that this one makes it into the live server:

"Skill damage and DoT damage increased. With reveal weakness decreasing in potency, Burglar damage needed to increase to compensate."

Burglar changes came in in a host of big nice changes. It's a good update.

However, the feeling from this thread is that Burglar offence / defense (currently before this update) just does not scale up to be current with the end game.

Also there are many redundant parts to the burglar as well as bugs that should get attention. An example: Ability to trigger Fellowship Maneuver is a major Burg's ability, as it stands now in the game FM is not really used. It should scale up to become viable or be replaced with something that can be used.

Burglar class needs attention to become relevant as melee class it is, through attention to its melee as well as it's debuffs. Our melee is possibly slowest in the game (our fastest attack is 3 sec cooldown and it x3 times slower then hunter RK and minstrel - all of these classes are also ranged, which allows them to escape melee range of many encounters) and we have range on our debuffs at best 4 timer shorter and at times 20 times shorter then actual debuffing class. This makes Burglar, very much in need of attention / work.

I have posted above in this thread on Class forum:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Class-changes

I really hope that we get a few more bits and pieces thrown our way. Because quite a bit in the text of the update seems to deal with Reveal Weakness and no longer stacking it. Honestly it would not even be of interest to a solo Burglar and as a main update to a class, it just is not. So, please work some more on our favorite class, it is in the game, it has great lore, make it possible to play!

[4andreas]

Im not sure where to post this, so i will try here. Maybe someone will find it useful.

Touch and Go: Restores 50% Morale, +25% Evade Chance, +15% Physical Mitigation, +15% Tactical Mitigation. Duration reduced to 10 seconds;

These were U23.1.7 patch notes.

Currently the Touch and Go duration on live is 15 seconds.

While im here i might as well write some actual feedback: Please remove skill Throw Knife
this skill is redundant. If burglars want range, they have Throwing hatchets. Instead of making this into skill (which is labeled as melee) i would rather see changed the Hatchets, lowering cd and making them useable on move.
I believe this change would also improve crafting, since weaponsmith would be sought to craft them.

Final thought: why do we see U23.2 Beta changes in U23.1.7 update?

[chekersftw]

From patch notes:

Skill damage and DoT damage increased. With reveal weakness decreasing in potency, Burglar damage needed to increase to compensate

Pre-patch: https://ibb.co/f9v89Lq
After patch: https://ibb.co/n8Nm0F3

Exactly the same!



At least man-heal pops for 6k now /s

[Drizzels]

Still no Comment on the Burg dmg compensation for the reveal weakness nerv.

IT NEVER MADE IT LIVE!

[Rollag3]

Still no Comment on the Burg dmg compensation for the reveal weakness nerv.

IT NEVER MADE IT LIVE!

Because vastin talks out of his backside half the time, I don’t know why everyone rates him so much, sure he’s probably the most active dev, and others should learn a thing or two from him, but most of what he says is complete bull usually.

I’d say just roll another class but would takes months and $1000s to achieve in any good time.

RIP burglars and minis now pretty much useless every other class does what we do better

[zipfile]

Salty blue hunterr

He wasn't in charge of Burglars. Nor minstrels. And by the classes he had worked on, he done well.

[pinlu]

Any reason for SSG removing this? This was a good thing to have and if you are scrapping evade surely then you would leave the heal instead of making it near to useless?

[Fingerz]

BR 4 released an no sign of any burg work or implementation of the increased Burg Dmg from BR1/live update patch notes

[xDRunnerXd]

Simply noone cares about burg!
Ssg is not doin anything

[dwarfThar]

We know you don't care about improving the burg class to be viable for actual content, but at least get that sh###y promised damage increase into the game already.

[Rollag3]

Well whoever the burg DEV is they strike me as the type of guy who has a very weak handshake.

[Areyekuwe]

Started this here:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...70#post7904470https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...70#post7904470

We need to ask for specific doable things, big (Like: Fellowship Manure rework) and small: all debuffs Burglars have should be 20M range, 2.5 M range is a joke.

[Drizzels]

Most important is that we get what is already in all patch notes:Skill and bleed dmg increase as a compensation for the reveal weakness nerv.
THIS NEVER HAPPEND!

[Fingerz]

Agreed, fistly we need the actual patch note changes inplemented - burg dmg inc.

Secondly we need realistic approach and sensible changes to the way our trait tree effects our play.

As much as there's some quality feedback amoungst the burg feedback thread there's some unrealistic and imo unessesarry ideas being put forward to the class which would fundamentaly change the class too much . All this is muddying the waters for any further updates for the Burg.

Fellowshop manouvers won't get touched - the system doesn't work since individual damage and heal output increased so much post Moria. It's in the past and as nostalgic as Vanilla SoA. Good times but of days gone by.

Just don't give the powers that be an excuse to do nothing more by putting forward such wild and wacky ideas! keep it simple and realistic-work the trait tree.

[Rollag3]

Pointless giving them ideas when they don’t even reply to feedback or implement things even after an official patch note.
Burgs are just ignored all the time they are getting money from people buying Beorn

Captains in red line do more sustained DPS than burglars. And have 10x more to offer.

Never though I’d see the day a captain out dps’s us. We’re screwed. Just give us the 2% or some stupid useless number that you want to increase damage by to compensate for reveal nerf.

Even though it should be 15%-20% minimum.

But we all know this won’t happen.

[Areyekuwe]

Keep the hope alive!

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...urgLivesMatter

#BurgLivesMatter

[Areyekuwe]

Agreed, fistly we need the actual patch note changes inplemented - burg dmg inc.

Secondly we need realistic approach and sensible changes to the way our trait tree effects our play.

As much as there's some quality feedback amoungst the burg feedback thread there's some unrealistic and imo unessesarry ideas being put forward to the class which would fundamentaly change the class too much . All this is muddying the waters for any further updates for the Burg.

Fellowshop manouvers won't get touched - the system doesn't work since individual damage and heal output increased so much post Moria. It's in the past and as nostalgic as Vanilla SoA. Good times but of days gone by.

Just don't give the powers that be an excuse to do nothing more by putting forward such wild and wacky ideas! keep it simple and realistic-work the trait tree.

Yes, that.