@Vastin can we do something about this ?

[Pavlin]

Captain, warden, guard cleanse skills: https://imgur.com/a/gCsULKE

And now beo one: https://imgur.com/a/f5IpRQ6

It share cd with cpt, but captain is a aoe cleanse.
I do agree beo one is strong /clean more in one use/ but compared to the even stronger skill guard have/ on lower cd/ its like nothing.
Making dungeons like Glimmer deep and puting /tank/ essencial skills on 20 second cd, when gobs aply bleed on almost /if no one/ every hit, is ridiculous.
The diference when i tank on guard and wrd compared to beo is like form earth to the sky.
Even with healer / if not yellow beor (because of his no cd clean) / keeping my bear clean from bleeds is nearly imposible.

I do agree puting 10 sec cd on a skill which clkean 3 effects and can be used on others will make it way more than OP.
Yellow bears have no cd on it anyway.
About red and blue, you can just reduce it by/to 10 seconds and make it only self use. It will make our life easier, without be brokenly op.

And please, take a look at thunderous roar cd, and probably range. Even with legacy is stil 45 second cd skill. And its the only aoe one we have / to ppl who will start with ("hey, BUT you do have relentless maul and bitting edge"" pls dont, just dont. Go learn how to play the class before posting. I know it may hurt sm1 feelings, but is the naked truth. We speak about aoe, NOT mele, taunt skills. And we have ONE. On FOURTY-FEKING-FIVE seconds cd/ with legacy reduce. Face it. Runing around with the adds you already agroed and with the mele dps who stays on then, trying to swipe to death everything you miss to agro, and in the same time runing after mr smart hunter / who try to out run you/ to pick the 2 adds away from his #### / because you vigilant roar is on cd, is not a solution, nor fun.
Make it 30 secons, remove the dam legacy, and reduce target to 10. This how it will work.
Or keep it as it is but make relentles maul chaneling / casting on move/ and increase its duration / for blue bear only/ up to 10 seconds.
And either make it work properly / to not be canseled on pushback/ either remove the funy ""you become imune to all combat states"" from the discription.
So i`m imune to stun and fear, but mob can stil push me back? yea right.... (its a 30 seconds cd and i`m sure mobs w8 me to cast it to use push back...) For sure i`m not the only one who can comfirm this

Is not runting. Its the things beo miss to be equal to other classes.

You did a great job, but is not yet done.
Make us happy.
Cheers.

[Gertes]

Tell me about it^^
https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Fear_Nothing!

worst cleanse skill in the game^^

[Sarthien90]

Even with healer / if not yellow beor (because of his no cd clean) / keeping my bear clean from bleeds is nearly imposible.
[...]
Yellow bears have no cd on it anyway.

That's wrong. Minimum cooldown in yellow line is 5 secconds and ONLY IF Cleanse is used on your Mark of Grimbeorn. Otherwise it's 20 seconds.
And as Gertes said: Captain has long cooldown so every Captain enjoys having a RK or yellow Bear in Glimmerdeep most of the time
But I agree that Guardians for example can take effects pretty quickly - nice for healers, btw, because less work to do.

[Gertes]

That's wrong. Minimum cooldown in yellow line is 5 secconds and ONLY IF Cleanse is used on your Mark of Grimbeorn. Otherwise it's 20 seconds.
And as Gertes said: Captain has long cooldown so every Captain enjoys having a RK or yellow Bear in Glimmerdeep most of the time
But I agree that Guardians for example can take effects pretty quickly - nice for healers, btw, because less work to do.

well thats the champion skill^^, captain removes from the whole group.

[Sarthien90]

well thats the champion skill^^, captain removes from the whole group.

Ah well, always mixing that up because I don't play Captain or Champion
Alright, then Champs are even worse when it comes to those nasty goblins in Glimmerdeep

[Pavlin]

Ah well, always mixing that up because I don't play Captain or Champion
Alright, then Champs are even worse when it comes to those nasty goblins in Glimmerdeep

They are not supposed to attack champ at all.
If tank do his job right dps will hardly need to use cleanse.

And Sarthien90, i know yellow beor cd timer on cleanse. For a skill which cleanse 3 effects 5 sec is nothing, thats why i say no cd.

[zipfile]

So, a 3 cleanse that you don't need to invest points in to even improve isn't good enough.

What kind of bleeds are you getting all the time that are so close together? Glimmerdeep Goblin Workers come to mind, but even they have an internal cooldown of about 15ish seconds.

And again, 45 second cooldown on a no max target, AOE taunt isn't good enough for you? Then suggesting others should learn to play? I'd love to see how you tank for starters before making such a demand.
And again, you have 2 other AOE taunts and multiple increased aggro skills.

Do you know how a Forced Attack mechanic works actually? Mind explaining it?

[Blato]

The current cleanse is fine and i don't see a need for any changes to it.

[Pavlin]

So, a 3 cleanse that you don't need to invest points in to even improve isn't good enough.

What kind of bleeds are you getting all the time that are so close together? Glimmerdeep Goblin Workers come to mind, but even they have an internal cooldown of about 15ish seconds.

And again, 45 second cooldown on a no max target, AOE taunt isn't good enough for you? Then suggesting others should learn to play? I'd love to see how you tank for starters before making such a demand.
And again, you have 2 other AOE taunts and multiple increased aggro skills.

Do you know how a Forced Attack mechanic works actually? Mind explaining it?

First a question: do you tank as beor, and what content you tank?
Yes i mean Glimmer when i speak about cleanse, but i`m sure more similar encounters will come in the future.
No 45 is not enough at all. Not when play with randoms / i wont go social (read it as i wont use voice) only because class force me. Nor i`l tipe in chat "" hey dont run around with mobs, just stack so tank can taunt them"" with hope ppl will read and follow.
As a guard you dont need someone to help you with cleanse. Cd is short enough. Same as a warden, you remove less effects but you cant outheal rest with selfheal. With this 2 classes you can run t2 or 3 even with no healer / in glimmer/ With a warden you can solo it even /stil see no point of doing it/ So may questiuon is. Why as beor i need to do it 2 times slower ? Because i need to pul grp by grp if i go with 2 dps. Or to sacrafice dps and time to free spot for a healer. We all know how painfull slow the boss fights are with 1 dps.

I probably tank better than most ppl in lotro, thats doesnt mnatter. We speak about skils you need as a tank, and which are double cd compared to other tank classes. And as i said pls dont even mention ""the other 2 taunts........... I want to see you how you graba agro when adds come with those 2 MELE taunts you mention, without moving out of the friking corner. Because if you do move, you will most likely be pushed down of the platform and boss will reset/ bug, and you will need to reset the entire instance/ restart. It works 100%. (i mean the bug)

And to ask again. Do you tank on beor ? If you do, post a video of you doing it. I`l do the same. We speak about bleeds and broken mechanics, so i think one run on t2 /with randoms from lff or wc wii do.
But if you dont tank with this class, and your opinion and advices are based on what you hear from friends, or read in forums, pls go back to your class (guard?) forum.
Cheers.

[Hildilas]

I am playing both and IMO the warden has the worst skill for doing this and the Beo's is really okay.

But all tanks should have the "same" skill. 30 secs cds and 3 effects taken.

[Pavlin]

I am playing both and IMO the warden has the worst skill for doing this and the Beo's is really okay.

But all tanks should have the "same" skill. 30 secs cds and 3 effects taken.

How 5 sec cd is worst skill ?
30 sec cd on cleanse will have you dead in some places.
Wont even take you serious.

The current cleanse is fine and i don't see a need for any changes to it.

Tbh, the person who do only BBs, skirms or landscape/daily quests dont need it at all .

[Hildilas]

How 5 sec cd is worst skill ?
30 sec cd on cleanse will have you dead in some places.

Oh man I got confused with Recover from stun skills. (idk just woke up and I'm not playing the english client sry) Same issue, same thoughts on this. Guard has the best skill here. (30secs cd skilled, others got 2 mins. That's were "30secs" came from".) But yeah. sry.

But still. Every tank should have the same CD and the same amount of effects taken. No reason why not.

[Pavlin]

But still. Every tank should have the same CD and the same amount of effects taken. No reason why not.

Agree with this. Same cd /and same number of corruption removed on self dispel for all but healers. Like cd on break free skills.

[Endoloose]

Agree with this. Same cd /and same number of corruption removed on self dispel for all but healers. Like cd on break free skills.

Yeah, and Warden need heavy armour too.. Let's make every tank the same..

Fun aside.. I ran with Beorn in Glimmer T3 yesterday evening with no problems. Maybe because the same Beorning use to run as Captain tank, she managed to remove the bleeds on her Beorning without any help from me (minstrel). She actually like to tank on Beorning after the update to the class. She say the Beorning is doing great damage as tank, compared to captain tank. Further she's very impressed by having 3 taunts, even if they're a bit short in range. As healer at Boss 1 in Glimmer it was very easy to go behind boss, when adds arrived and the tank grabbed aggro ASAP.. Worked very well.
In my view.. not playing Beorning, it seems fine. Both cleanse skill and taunt works and make it possible to make T3 Glimmer without any problems

[Hildilas]

Yeah, and Warden need heavy armour too.. Let's make every tank the same..

Fun aside.. I ran with Beorn in Glimmer T3 yesterday evening with no problems. Maybe because the same Beorning use to run as Captain tank, she managed to remove the bleeds on her Beorning without any help from me (minstrel). She actually like to tank on Beorning after the update to the class. She say the Beorning is doing great damage as tank, compared to captain tank. Further she's very impressed by having 3 taunts, even if they're a bit short in range. As healer at Boss 1 in Glimmer it was very easy to go behind boss, when adds arrived and the tank grabbed aggro ASAP.. Worked very well.
In my view.. not playing Beorning, it seems fine. Both cleanse skill and taunt works and make it possible to make T3 Glimmer without any problems

Doesn't mean IT IS good how it is. GD T3 is a very easy instance.

There are 3 skills that actually should be equal on tanking lines.
Stun counter skills, Effect removing skills and corruption skills - should take the same amount.

A stun counter of 30 secs or 2 mins means a big disadvantage for everyone with 2 mins.

[zipfile]

First a question: do you tank as beor, and what content you tank?

Actually, yes. I have. I mentioned it before, Court of Seregost T2C for ash farming on 115. Both healing and tanking. Didn't see any sort of problem with wound removal and you can easily dodge all the stuns by moving a few meters back.

Yes i mean Glimmer when i speak about cleanse, but i`m sure more similar encounters will come in the future.

Hedging a bet and asking in case it does.
Maybe we should get to such content first?

No 45 is not enough at all.

Do you tank on a Guardian by any chance? Aside from radius (when traited), you have both a lower cooldown and the benefit of having as many targets as you want.
What about Chanks? They also suffer from PDFW removal lacks and yet, I've seen them mow through instances on par with Guardians, with only double pulls sometimes being an issue.

As a guard you dont need someone to help you with cleanse. Cd is short enough.

It also drains a ton of power if you spam it, so unless you got a ton fate with Fate tomes (which a vast population of Guardians don't), you'll have a lot of fun trying to remove.
Currently not logged on my main Guardian, but if I remember the cost is around 7% max power. If you spam it all the time, you won't be getting much power back unless, again, you're fate/tome stacked.

Same as a warden, you remove less effects but you cant outheal rest with selfheal.

Warden self-heals haven't scaled up at all since LVL 105 days, so thanks for showing that knowledge off.

With this 2 classes you can run t2 or 3 even with no healer / in glimmer/

Yeah, I've yet to see someone without a healer or LM post anything of this sort without some hardcore Juggernaut/boss kiting exploit.

Why as beor i need to do it 2 times slower ? Because i need to pul grp by grp if i go with 2 dps. Or to sacrafice dps and time to free spot for a healer. We all know how painfull slow the boss fights are with 1 dps.

That's not an issue of a class, it's the issue of the content, as by comparison, current bosses are hyped up on morale to make them drag out as long as possible.
No three man ever lasted for 20-30 minutes, or six man ever lasted 2 hours (aside from Carn Dum launch days)

I probably tank better than most ppl in lotro, thats doesnt mnatter.

If you tank as good as you spell...or structure your posts....or make melodrama...-

We speak about skils you need as a tank, and which are double cd compared to other tank classes.

Of one tank class....that was made from the ground up to do one thing, tank, and has suffered repeated nerfs in every single other department for years. Only recent things that have happened for good were CAB % changes and Red line rework, even though both have been botched quite heavily, something which I'm still trying to bring to light.

And as i said pls dont even mention ""the other 2 taunts........... I want to see you how you graba agro when adds come with those 2 MELE taunts you mention

Missing a few commas and melee.

You also have a ranged taunt, on a 10 second cooldown, just like a Guardian.
You also have a ranged fear to grab the mob at the start, since it does damage.

.....without moving out of the friking corner

What?

Because if you do move, you will most likely be pushed down of the platform and boss will reset/ bug, and you will need to reset the entire instance/ restart. It works 100%. (i mean the bug)

Oh, you're still using Glimmerdeep as an example, okay. You see, it would be a lot better for your points if you just mention you'll use it as an example to demonstrate a null point.
I don't know how you tank this, but here's an option for you.


But I'm certain that someone as good as you knows that they can intersect the adds to stand in between your fellows and yourself, you can easily grab them with Biting Edge...as other Beornings have shown me.

And to ask again. Do you tank on beor ?

At 120, no, because I found it muppet-like boring. There's no flavour to it and even if you played on an xBox controller, you can easily hold aggro, even easier than a Guardian is currently able.

If you do, post a video of you doing it. I`l do the same.

Sorry, I don't FOTM.

We speak about bleeds and broken mechanics, so i think one run on t2 /with randoms from lff or wc wii do.

Which I have not seen any class have issues with that can tank. I've had captains tank, and they probably have 2nd worst removal skill in the entire game (for selves), right after Chanks (who take the shameful crown), and yet, they didn't cry about it...Oh, just to mention, same set up was used, Chank or Captain/RK/LM and we breezed through Glimmerdeep.

But if you dont tank with this class, and your opinion and advices are based on what you hear from friends, or read in forums, pls go back to your class (guard?) forum.
Cheers.

Well, you don't need to make a nuclear weapon to know it's a bad idea for it to be detonated above NYC.
And know thy enemy, Sir 7 second cooldown taunt.

And you still didn't answer, do you know what Forced Attack is?

[Pavlin]

Exploits ? Since when kiting the boss its a exploit ? Or you want to tell me you tank all bosses toe to toe ?
This was enough for me to understand you do nothing outside t1. Atleast not from tank perespective. You probably toe to toe last boss in Caverns too ?
Givving you only glimmer as an example? Blame SSG that we have 3 instances, and rest 2 dont worth mentioning. But just to please you :
TG is smooth but you dont expect me to spend 3h inside 1 dungeon right ? Caverns is ok but its a almost NO NO zone for a random fellowship.
What you want me to speak about ? About SS gear farm ? I dont farm my gear in X expansions old content. Dont need to.

At 120, no

No more to speak then.

ps
Read wrd 22.2 note. And before educating someone who do t2/3 daily, pls be sure you play the class/rolle at the current endgame lvl.

[zipfile]

Exploits ? Since when kiting the boss its a exploit ? Or you want to tell me you tank all bosses toe to toe ?

If we're talking about Glimmerdeep, moving over a certain threshold next to the ramp so the boss takes the long way around and goes back and forth doesn't count as kiting, as his AI pathfinding is bugged, therefore a bug which people take advantage of to complete the instance. He can be face-tanked quite easily because his most damaging attacks deal roughly 50-60% of your max morale as damage if you're phys mit capped.

This was enough for me to understand you do nothing outside t1. Atleast not from tank perespective.

You probably toe to toe last boss in Caverns too ?

Assume more.

Givving you only glimmer as an example? Blame SSG that we have 3 instances, and rest 2 dont worth mentioning.

No, blame the players for not expecting higher quality. How can a company be at fault when it's own playerbase would devour even the most rancid meal served because they're so starved of content?

But just to please you :
TG is smooth but you dont expect me to spend 3h inside 1 dungeon right ?

Can be done in less than 2 hours, even after recent buffs.

Caverns is ok but its a almost NO NO zone for a random fellowship.

Not really, just need smart people who know how to respect the mechanics of an instance.

What you want me to speak about ? About SS gear farm ? I dont farm my gear in X expansions old content. Dont need to.

No comment on this one.

No more to speak then.

Right. How does me tanking something when a class was arguably harder to play (and frankly, even then it was mind-numbing to play) content that was meta and provided a challenge for a vast majority of player base diminish what I'm currently saying?

ps
Read wrd 22.2 note. And before educating someone who do t2/3 daily, pls be sure you play the class/rolle at the current endgame lvl.

I don't see how Wardens play any role here, but okay. You do you on this point.

Post Scriptum (P.S.)

You still didn't answer what Forced Attack is?

[Pavlin]

I don't see how Wardens play any role here, but okay. You do you on this point.

Warden self-heals haven't scaled up at all since LVL 105 days, so thanks for showing that knowledge off.

You fight so many ppl that you starting to lose tracks....

[zipfile]

You fight so many ppl that you starting to lose tracks....

So, you reply to the most useless piece of conversation instead of arguing over the meat of it.

I'll ask you here too, do you know what a forced attack is?

[Pavlin]

So, you reply to the most useless piece of conversation instead of arguing over the meat of it.

I'll ask you here too, do you know what a forced attack is?

Was you who mention it. I just say that wrd self heal helps him with bleeds/poisons.
ANd I already answered your pointless question.
An aoe skill which helps you get/keep/hold agro. Its on short cd. Its even have a proc. And is one which beo miss.
Happy with the answer ?
Even if is not force attack skill its a taunting one. Combined with chant helps you get agro away from dpsers even if they nuke.
But you know that right ?

[zipfile]

Was you who mention it. I just say that wrd self heal helps him with bleeds/poisons.
ANd I already answered your pointless question.
An aoe skill which helps you get/keep/hold agro. Its on short cd. Its even have a proc. And is one which beo miss.
Happy with the answer ?
Even if is not force attack skill its a taunting one. Combined with chant helps you get agro away from dpsers even if they nuke.
But you know that right ?

That's quite a statement, it's like casting the widest net possible to catch a small fish. Yeah, you're correct, but not mechanically. But thank you for demonstrating you actually don't know what a Forced Attack does and you want more of it.
I'm satisfied with ignorance.

[Pavlin]

That's quite a statement, it's like casting the widest net possible to catch a small fish. Yeah, you're correct, but not mechanically. But thank you for demonstrating you actually don't know what a Forced Attack does and you want more of it.
I'm satisfied with ignorance.

Your mind is a mess dude. I rly mean it.
Demonstrating ? Satisfied with ignorance ? And in the same time i`m correct but not mechanically ?
Blame ssg and not me. If you cant get agro with shield taunt, thats your problem. I have no problems on guard.
And as a guard player PLS stop coment and giving ideas on beor forum.
I dont care about guard class, neither i care about shield taunt, or about the messy ssg discription.
And less of all i care about your opinion about this.
Sadly GM can care, and follow advices from you and ppl like you.
Undust your bear, main it, then ask for nerfs or improvements.
Til then stick on the class you play and good luck.

[zipfile]

Your mind is a mess dude. I rly mean it.

I injected too many marijuanas.

Demonstrating ? Satisfied with ignorance ? And in the same time i`m correct but not mechanically ?

Well, yeah, you're correct, but not mechanically, because that's not the right answer to the question, but more like a broader statement without nailing down the actual issue.
Guess I'll answer it for you then.

Forced Attack (or Force Taunt, by some entries) is a combat modifier that makes the affected enemy target the caster for a set amount of time. Base time a Forced Attack modifier lasts is 5 seconds.
Every class that has a tanking tree has access to such skills, and they can be traited and used to briefly take over a mob for a short time, regardless of any other modifiers the tank might have put on it. However, what happens next greatly depends on one thing: Is the caster of the Forced Attack currently specialised in a tanking line?

• If no, after the duration of the Forced Attack modifier ends, the enemy will return to the tank
• If yes, the enemy will stay on the last caster of the Forced Attack

Now, you may ask why? Well, it's fairly simple to understand, but might need a bit of reading/writing.
Every instance of healing and damage produces aggro, which simply put, is a made up quantity of targeting priority of the enemy. The player with the highest quantity of aggro will be attacked by the enemy until the player dies or is surpassed by another quantity.
Forced Attack modifiers, when cast by a tank, take all the current quantities of aggro, multiply and place it on themselves, thus taking over aggro from others players, on top of which the previously mentioned 5 second base duration during which enemy will not attack anyone else other than the Forced Attack caster.

In laymans terms, no attacky othery unlessy noty tanky.

That is what a Forced Attack modifier is, and what you cannot comprehend.
This is NOT what Shield-Taunt does, as demonstrated in my videos.
Only skills with tagged Forced Attack on tooltips can perform it, nothing else.

Blame ssg and not me. If you cant get agro with shield taunt, thats your problem. I have no problems on guard.

I'd love to see that Guardian.

And as a guard player PLS stop coment and giving ideas on beor forum.

No

I dont care about guard class, neither i care about shield taunt, or about the messy ssg discription.

But clearly you do, seeing how you want something similar to it. You cannot say We want that because.... and say We don't care if you have that because.... That's a conflicting statement.

And less of all i care about your opinion about this.

Because you were proven wrong on every step of your broken ladder? By multiple people?

Sadly GM can care, and follow advices from you and ppl like you.

People who actually tank, have tanked and will continue tanking for years (to come)?

Undust your bear, main it, then ask for nerfs or improvements.
Til then stick on the class you play and good luck.

It's a boring class, even more so after it became even easier. My Beorning was a waste of time because it wasn't fun, there was no challenge with no cooldown AOE taunt and Thickened Hide.
So, I'd rather build it a tomb till an actual update to the class comes where you need to use more than 2 buttons and have 0 finesse and still be considered good.

[Pavlin]

QUOTE=zipfile;7904159]And I ask you again, do you know what a force attack is?[/QUOTE]



You are right about one thing. I`m ignorant. Because i missread your question.
Duno why i tought you ask "do you know what a force attack is"" See i did it again .............. /edited *what shield taunt is*
Was clearly visible from my answer but you get it as a oportunity to educate me what taunt is. Congratulations, seems you know atleast that. Explained in details.
About guard, no i dont care. If i did, i will main him. not bear. The only thing i do care is that my main class have less options compared to rest of the tanks.
Read your last sentences. Even you say that you skip bear because have 2 buttons to press /which is not compleatly true and this only make it more chalanging to play/
Why you want to see my guard ? Its same like yours. You want to see do i`m good with him or? What if i`m ? Do this change something about beo current tank state ?
You admit many times that you dont play beo and in the same times you come here to tell us how beo feels in the current game level. I`m sure your bear is not even geared for t1/ if its max lvl at all. I may be wrong in this, or you can prove me wrong leveling the 5 levels you miss only to prove me wrong. What about trait points then ? Do they are close to maxed. Because if you care about one class you must have them all.
And again. You have zero xp how to tank with bear. And i mean zero. Prove me wrong. Even if it means to link me some of your friends video :P
TG is too long to watch. So do share some t2/3 video of how you tank Caverns or Glimmer. With or without healer /i just want to see you tanking/ And yes. Do pick a random ppl from chat/ no matter their class. If you do this, i`l do the same. Then we can make guardian videos Or warden/ captain/ whatever you prefer