The real reason why the action is bad

[Hilawolf]

I believe in removing freeps being able to see player names of creepside player and vice versa very firmly. This also caused massive toxic playership and personal OOC channel childish warfare.

I totally disagree with this. I think you lose a huge pvp dynamic, know your enemies habits. If you are in a GvG or RvR, you will change your strategy based on the person on the other side. After years of fighting, you learn their tendencies and try to adjust your tactics based on them. I think it gives a dynamic you will never get in PVE. And it is always fun to chat with someone after going at each other for years. I enjoy defeating a friend much more than a stranger. Toxic people will find ways to be toxic, that's who they are.

[danr607]

hips/sprint penalty removal is something I firmly stand by. Ive seen the toxic action these 2 skills have caused personally it doesnt promote tactics or skill neither does it promote pvp.

No. This would take away everything that it means to be a Warg. It would totally destroy the class. As I've said before you can't just do that and not evaluate the whole scope of things. Wargs also play as scouts. Which two skills do you think Wargs use to scout? I think scouting is part of what you'd call "tactics". You cannot punish the Wargs for using the skills they've had forever. To do what you're suggesting would would create such an imbalance the other way. If you're talking about destroying the creep stealth class with seriousness you have to consider destroying the freep stealth class too. If Wargs cannot disappear without a huge negative consequence (auto-death), Burglars should not either.

I also firmly stand by the adding a cash in quest everytime you wish to leave the capitol of GV or Gramsfoot + removing all rez spots on map. To leave GV/Grams you need to take a quest to exit the portal and your spawned at 6x different areas ( pref Poor map locations ) This will single handedly remove spawn zone camping and promote roaming field action in moors.

No. What this would also do is single-handedly ruin any group action. If the ports are a complete #### shoot you'd potentially scatter a group. This would be also unfair for freeps as creeps have maps and freeps only have horses. While freeps would get scattered like leaves in the wind creeps can port in wherever they want using the 15 maps they have. If you'd then take away the maps to make it even again so everybody ports from GV/Grams, freeps would then have the advantage of having horses. Besides, on larger servers there are enough creeps, especially this update, to camp all the port in spots.

I get you want to try to promote small group action and spread everything out. I just don't believe this suggestion is going to work.

I believe in removing freeps being able to see player names of creepside player and vice versa very firmly. This also caused massive toxic playership and personal OOC channel childish warfare.

No. As Redrighthand said quite a bit of strategy and shot calling depends a lot on knowing which people are in the group or raid. If you wish to play like this go ahead and hit that "N" key in-game and remove everyone's names. Isn't there this whole disclaimer to the game as well that "Online interactions are not rated by the ESRB"? Good luck trying to censor people from being people.

All these suggestions have far-reaching implications that I'm not sure you've stopped to consider.

[Kate00]

Sure, I agree. But that obviously applies to both sides and it was WAY worse for creeps the last two updates and we still came out and it wasn't to sit at a grams camp. My point was people are talking about fixing this and fixing that but the only real fix at this point is making freeps stupid OP again.

100% this. Freeps wont leave gv cause scared. Game is pretty balanced as is and yet freeps either sit in bree or sit on gv stairs.

[AaronIU]

Class updates essentially finished and raid updates essentially finished so only thing next is pvp you got roughly 10 months untill next level cap @Vastin promised pvp is next.

hips/sprint penalty removal is something I firmly stand by. Ive seen the toxic action these 2 skills have caused personally it doesnt promote tactics or skill neither does it promote pvp.

Im aware hips/sprint need penalty but the 2-3/10 actually using it to fight vs running away its not fair there would be a difference if running away saved you some type of commodity bu dying in ettenmoors does nothing you lose nothing so why do people die hard abou escaping vs just giving your best all out vs your opponent. If your caught your caught these skills dont promote that mindset it promotes get away f you can which isnt Player versus Player like mindset.

You’re completely off base here and shows me you’ve never played the two classes this would effect. Wargs are predators, they chase after the slow and weak and dispatch them as fast as possible before being zerged. They find prey and move to catch them, so as long as creeps move slower out of combat than freeps with horses, sprint is necessary. HIPs is necessary (if it ever worked, get to that later) so that a predator style of play is possible. If you took away the already insanely limited ability to HIPs you’ve destroyed 90% of wargs playstyle. They are already not preferred for a raid, let’s take away their solo game too. If you played warg for 1 week, you’d see as Rastlyn mentioned previously how much wargs/burgs get tracked. With the prominence of store tracks on freepside with short cd, you can have a group of 3 freeps track the warg faster than they can restealth or get away with sprint, they sure as hell don’t have enough time to map away. So they will literally chase the warg from GV to poor Isen spam tracking and chasing them with horses until they catch them and Zerg them with no chance at survival. That’s already the case with long cd on HIPs and sprint when traited compared to the multitude of ways a burg can escape. HIPs works only about 10% of the time in low lag situations, about 50% in optimal situations, and 0% in heavy lag situations. It’s literally the most broken skill in the game and they have blatantly ignored the problem for years. So why bother to get rid of it when it doesn’t work as intended anyway...

[DrRabbitfoot]

You’re completely off base here and shows me you’ve never played the two classes this would effect. Wargs are predators, they chase after the slow and weak and dispatch them as fast as possible before being zerged. They find prey and move to catch them, so as long as creeps move slower out of combat than freeps with horses, sprint is necessary. HIPs is necessary (if it ever worked, get to that later) so that a predator style of play is possible. If you took away the already insanely limited ability to HIPs you’ve destroyed 90% of wargs playstyle. They are already not preferred for a raid, let’s take away their solo game too. If you played warg for 1 week, you’d see as Rastlyn mentioned previously how much wargs/burgs get tracked. With the prominence of store tracks on freepside with short cd, you can have a group of 3 freeps track the warg faster than they can restealth or get away with sprint, they sure as hell don’t have enough time to map away. So they will literally chase the warg from GV to poor Isen spam tracking and chasing them with horses until they catch them and Zerg them with no chance at survival. That’s already the case with long cd on HIPs and sprint when traited compared to the multitude of ways a burg can escape. HIPs works only about 10% of the time in low lag situations, about 50% in optimal situations, and 0% in heavy lag situations. It’s literally the most broken skill in the game and they have blatantly ignored the problem for years. So why bother to get rid of it when it doesn’t work as intended anyway...

Nothing worse than getting caught with your pants down with hips and/or sprint misfiring in the middle of big group of freeps. The devs should feel ashamed over this but it's a big. /meh for them. So is paying for their game for me. You'd think they would have connected the dots by now. But here we are.

[Maryam]

100% this. Freeps wont leave gv cause scared. Game is pretty balanced as is and yet freeps either sit in bree or sit on gv stairs.

GV camps are becoming more and more rare on Ark. Formed a six man, flipped the map (TR/LC/ROP/HOP/LUGS), and was camping Grams earlier today.

[mikkye]

I do play warg and its far to easy to only bank weak players and completely avoid a fight with someone you find as a threat. That's broken mechanic for pvp


This fail hips sprint is just poor skill firing I never have. Problem escaping unless I have lets say extended writ of fire or ward dots on me even then I can usually always escape if my goal is escape not fight then run. If you have nerve pounce stay and fight don't run after start to lose.

Granted there like 10% of wargs who actually play rest are these lol warts who simply want to bank and hide.


All these people must be the 90% lol wargs or you pretending not to see this toxic behavioral of stealth and sprint classes.. Not just warg but spam healing burgs. Spam sprint yellow guardians. Spam Cbr sprint champs the list goes on.

[mikkye]

In short do you really thinkg sprinting away and hip'sing promotes healthy pvp or are you just used to these akills that you couldnt fathom a world where you'd have stand and fight?

[Maryam]

In short do you really thinkg sprinting away and hip'sing promotes healthy pvp or are you just used to these akills that you couldnt fathom a world where you'd have stand and fight?

I can imagine standing and fighting... on a different class than Warg and Burg.

[mikkye]

I can imagine standing and fighting... on a different class than Warg and Burg.

If you can't even imagine a 1v1 standing and fighting that just shows why these changes needed. That type of thinking and player base doesn't promote healthy pvp

[Maryam]

If you can't even imagine a 1v1 standing and fighting that just shows why these changes needed. That type of thinking and player base doesn't promote healthy pvp

I've won 2v1 and even 3v1 on my warg, but I did so with "cowardly" tactics of exploding the Minstrel first with a surprise pounce from stealth, and using HIPS to get out of range and quickly exlode the next Freep, leaving it a 1v1. You entirely miss the point of stealth classes.

[Spilo]

I do play warg and its far to easy to only bank weak players and completely avoid a fight with someone you find as a threat. That's broken mechanic for pvp


This fail hips sprint is just poor skill firing I never have. Problem escaping unless I have lets say extended writ of fire or ward dots on me even then I can usually always escape if my goal is escape not fight then run. If you have nerve pounce stay and fight don't run after start to lose.

Granted there like 10% of wargs who actually play rest are these lol warts who simply want to bank and hide.


All these people must be the 90% lol wargs or you pretending not to see this toxic behavioral of stealth and sprint classes.. Not just warg but spam healing burgs. Spam sprint yellow guardians. Spam Cbr sprint champs the list goes on.

Find a new game, silly goose.

[sapienze]

Stealth junkies will always protect their turf but how is that any different than calling off the dogs on any other preferred choice of playstyle?

By this logic Hunters can only use traps for offense and not use them as a slow to get away. Healers can only use heals to support offensive stratagems and not used for endurance survival to retreat. There is something for every class making them distinct. Following this path leads to no where.

[BadJuju]

Hips in combat, for burg or warg, is a terrible mechanic. There is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth.

[Xerxes2007]

because no one actually wants good action.

Good action was never a priority on these boards. "Fair" was always the goal. Well, it's fair now. So what's the problem?

[Maryam]

Hips in combat, for burg or warg, is a terrible mechanic. There is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth.

Fine, take away Hunter, Warden, and Elf stealth, and Spider long burrow; or give Warg/Burg the ability to pew, pew from 40m out.

[BadJuju]

Fine, take away Hunter, Warden, and Elf stealth, and Spider long burrow; or give Warg/Burg the ability to pew, pew from 40m out.

I've never heard someone compared hunter, warden, and elf stealth, to warg stealth. I'm not going to bother listing the differences.

[subadar]

Hobbits also have a racial stealth skill. it's completely OP and it needs to be nerfed!

pvmp would be so much better if they just did that!

[Maryam]

I've never heard someone compared hunter, warden, and elf stealth, to warg stealth. I'm not going to bother listing the differences.

"There is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth."

Taking away HIPs from Burg/Warg reduces them almost to the point of these other classes, just with greater range, and since "there is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth," then we need to remove stealth altogether, or to compensate Warg/Burgs by giving them powerful ranged attacks, and also remove Hunter DF, or add DF to Warg/Burg, since Hunter can DF immediately on being tracked and before being put in combat, but a Warg/Burg can't, and Wargs aren't supposed to Sprint for anything but offensive reasons.

Just taking dumb logic to logical dumb conclusions.

[mikkye]

"There is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth."

Taking away HIPs from Burg/Warg reduces them almost to the point of these other classes, just with greater range, and since "there is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth," then we need to remove stealth altogether, or to compensate Warg/Burgs by giving them powerful ranged attacks, and also remove Hunter DF, or add DF to Warg/Burg, since Hunter can DF immediately on being tracked and before being put in combat, but a Warg/Burg can't, and Wargs aren't supposed to Sprint for anything but offensive reasons.

Just taking dumb logic to logical dumb conclusions.

Listen its quite simple Hunters desperate flight is really only used when your solo and dodging a craid thats spam tracking you, this skill has a 30 minute cd without legacy but most I see dont have the legacy for cooldown and with maxed legacy its -600 seconds still leaving this *hips* skill on cd for a whole heaping 20 minutes also must be out of combat the skill for pvp is gg. Alot avoid DF because it can spawn you from somewhere like Elf camp all the way back to GV spawn zone which is inconvenient and takes you away from action also allowing you to be exposed to campers upon exiting GV.


In terms of 1v1 if burg can engage their in stealth but no hips if under certain morale threshold they can usually hold a very impressive 1v1 with who they choose too engage with traps being the exception for obvious reasons.

Imo same with warg but this is where I believe a deeper issue starts. This class has no type of nice heal that like burgs and other freeps & creeps have so they cannot sustain being engaged for very long this is why a large majority of wargs hips when realize their target is stronger than expected. When this is finished the warg maybe will try again but after certain amount times they will fully avoid that player unless ( 1vs2+ ) and this creates unhealthy pvp. Perhaps make flayer great or playable realistically with rallying cry being used in combat and scaled to modern morale pool hot's + a better slow while in flayer.


* + Creep corruptions and modernizing the bonus to appropriate morale pools

* Toning and modernizing alot of creep and freep skills in ettens and osgiliath.

[BadJuju]

"There is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth."

Taking away HIPs from Burg/Warg reduces them almost to the point of these other classes, just with greater range, and since "there is enough power in being able to engage whoever you want due to ooc stealth," then we need to remove stealth altogether, or to compensate Warg/Burgs by giving them powerful ranged attacks, and also remove Hunter DF, or add DF to Warg/Burg, since Hunter can DF immediately on being tracked and before being put in combat, but a Warg/Burg can't, and Wargs aren't supposed to Sprint for anything but offensive reasons.

Just taking dumb logic to logical dumb conclusions.

Lol, you're an arrogant one. You're also a warg, who is predictably triggered by people criticizing the class you play. You're also being a hairsplitting reductionist, so far away from any semblance of logic or sense that its hard to take you seriously.

Equivocate some more, I'm getting a good laugh from reading all of the ways you think other classes match up to the complete invincibility of permanent stealth. Hunters posessing the ability to attack at range was the best.

I never said take away Hips, also never said to remove stealth. You made up these positions, and I'm supposed to now defend them. Its called a strawman.
I think stealth should have a short duration and a long cooldown. I think hips should enter you into stealth for a short time and then remove you from it. This is a step toward balance and away from mechanics that have given wargs and burgs free reign for years. When the moors becomes inbalance, there is a reason you see nothing but wargs and burgs.

So to correct you, you're not taking dumb logic to logical dumb conclusions, you're taking the logic of a premise you've invented, and making conclusions from this invention of yours.

[Corwelleon]

Hobbits also have a racial stealth skill. it's completely OP and it needs to be nerfed!

pvmp would be so much better if they just did that!

... and let’s not forget the cowardly face-plant/play dead skill! Why can’t minnys stay up and fight too?

Seriously... if you don’t like stealth (constant from burgs, every 3 min from wargs) then keep a champ close and a hunter closer! Traps, bleeds, stuns, let me count the ways...

I suggest that 100% of whatever scarce dev time is allocated to the Moors needs to be in fixing bugs and updating things that have not seen an update since level 95. No need to make wholesale revision to any class or mechanic.

See you in the game!

[sapienze]

I have had the pleasure and let me tell you all out hilarious laughter of watching a Hobbit Minstrel flop be interrupted. Not once, not twice, but yes three glorious moments when a Hobbit Minstrel shoots up in the air like they have been launched from a cannon. It is indeed a rare moment to see this display. Any witness to this can't help but to burst into laughter.

Landy's Freep crowd has a few Hobbit Minstrel floppers. Perhaps one day they can provide this rare moment to carry on the tradition of trying to flop and fail, then fall to their death.


Make Landy PvMP great

[Kate00]

This is 100% whats wrong with the moors....

I went to gv this afternoon and lag loaded into 10 freeps. It may have been more. I got zerged between tr and gv past the tree line. Those 10+ freeps killed me, the ONLY creep there, and ran back to stand on the stairs at gv.

Do you see the hilarity of this situation? The freeps only left the stairs when there were 10+ to kill 1 creep then ran back to stand on the stairs. THEY RAN BACK TO THE STAIRS. Not to the npc camp, not to just the oneshots, but all the way up the on the stairs.

Thats whats wrong with the moors now. Its 100% players.

[BadJuju]

This is 100% whats wrong with the moors....

I went to gv this afternoon and lag loaded into 10 freeps. It may have been more. I got zerged between tr and gv past the tree line. Those 10+ freeps killed me, the ONLY creep there, and ran back to stand on the stairs at gv.

Do you see the hilarity of this situation? The freeps only left the stairs when there were 10+ to kill 1 creep then ran back to stand on the stairs. THEY RAN BACK TO THE STAIRS. Not to the npc camp, not to just the oneshots, but all the way up the on the stairs.

Thats whats wrong with the moors now. Its 100% players.

You can just compact everyone one of your posts into the sentence : " I hate freeps".

Most of us got over the irrational hatred of the other side after our first week in the moors, you've been going full t@rd for years now.