Tanking - AOE Threat

[JLotro]

AOE threat seems lacking.

It would help if Thunderous Roar could be used more often than every 45 secs.

Or maybe Bees had an AOE threat component added when in blue.

[eanamdar]

We need more taunt not matter how you slice it

[ColMcStacky]

Why do you feel that AoE threat is lacking? In what situation? How do you usually initiate pulls? The issue you're having could just be rotation-based, I think.

Personally, I feel like Beorning has arguably the best AoE threat generation of any tank at the moment, depending on the situation.

We need more taunt not matter how you slice it

Honestly, I entirely disagree. We have 4 taunts available to us, 3 of them being AoE. I don't even trait the Biting Edge taunt, as I have no use for a fourth taunt on my bear. Haven't run into issues because of this either.

[eanamdar]

Can you suggest a rotation that works well?

[ColMcStacky]

Can you suggest a rotation that works well?

Obviously it's going to be pretty dependent on the situation, but typically what I try to do for single-target boss fights is use Recuperate before running in, then start with Thrash, then Claw Swipe, Recuperate, and basically just spam those three until I lose threat. Always prioritize Claw Swipe over the others, as it has an amazing threat modifier on it. Use Vigilant Roar once you lose threat to get it back, and you should be pretty much good. You should throw another taunt after a while, but shouldnt be necessary for about 15-20s minimum.

For AoE trash pulls, I'll run in with Recuperate rolling already, hit Claw Swipe, on as many as I can, then Thunderous Roar. Spam Claw Swipe as much as possible for extra threat, then after about 20s or so, use Relentless Maul, and mouseturn to make sure you hit every enemy around you. After that, you should be pretty solid.

Also, positioning may be part of the issue on trash. You need to position yourself in such a way that things need to run past you in order to get to the squishies. This can sometimes be tricky because of frontals/AoE, but you have to do your best, at least when initially grabbing mobs. Just try to always have either Relentless Maul or Thunderous Roar off cooldown when possible so you can grab anything that is running in.


TL;DR, always spam Claw Swipe. It's basically our equivalent of a Guardian's Warchant. Just keep in mind that things change a lot depending on what you're running, your strategy as a group, the group comp, if add waves are coming in soon, etc.

[Frisco]

Obviously it's going to be pretty dependent on the situation, but typically what I try to do for single-target boss fights is use Recuperate before running in, then start with Thrash, then Claw Swipe, Recuperate, and basically just spam those three until I lose threat. Always prioritize Claw Swipe over the others, as it has an amazing threat modifier on it. Use Vigilant Roar once you lose threat to get it back, and you should be pretty much good. You should throw another taunt after a while, but shouldnt be necessary for about 15-20s minimum.

For AoE trash pulls, I'll run in with Recuperate rolling already, hit Claw Swipe, on as many as I can, then Thunderous Roar. Spam Claw Swipe as much as possible for extra threat, then after about 20s or so, use Relentless Maul, and mouseturn to make sure you hit every enemy around you. After that, you should be pretty solid.

Also, positioning may be part of the issue on trash. You need to position yourself in such a way that things need to run past you in order to get to the squishies. This can sometimes be tricky because of frontals/AoE, but you have to do your best, at least when initially grabbing mobs. Just try to always have either Relentless Maul or Thunderous Roar off cooldown when possible so you can grab anything that is running in.


TL;DR, always spam Claw Swipe. It's basically our equivalent of a Guardian's Warchant. Just keep in mind that things change a lot depending on what you're running, your strategy as a group, the group comp, if add waves are coming in soon, etc.

OP: Thunderous Roar has too long a cooldown

You: Try and always pull with Thunderous Roar off cooldown.



Relentless Maul and Claw Swipe are finicky skills, and not always likely to hit mobs which may be more spread out. TR on a shorter cooldown--at least a little--would be nice.

[ColMcStacky]

OP: Thunderous Roar has too long a cooldown

You: Try and always pull with Thunderous Roar off cooldown.



Relentless Maul and Claw Swipe are finicky skills, and not always likely to hit mobs which may be more spread out. TR on a shorter cooldown--at least a little--would be nice.

That's not what I said at all... The trick is to space out taunts where you use the next one just before you lose threat. If you do this properly, you don't have to use Thunderous Roar more than once in an AoE pull typically, and you won't even need it on single-target bosses. Personally, after the initial agro, I hold on to Thunderous Roar on the off chance that I die, that way the group doesn't wipe. Relentless Maul is more than enough to solidify threat after you already have agro initially. You just have to wait long enough to use it. And with the duration of the Relentless Maul channel in blueline being doubled in tomorrow's patch, this will be even easier soon.

Hell, if there is a single person who keeps pulling agro, just fully trait Sacrifice in blue and use it on that person when they pull agro. It leeches threat, and you will be able to hold things for longer without even using a taunt. My point is that Beornings have an abundance of threat generation, so with a proper rotation, its a non-issue.

[JLotro]

I think part of the issue to consider is range.
When you try to equate Claw Swip to the Guards War Chant it is not quite the same.
(5 meter radius vs 18 meters)

So when a couple groups of adds come, say 20 seconds apart it means you are dragging
the existing mobs on you all around to get to where the radius of Claw Swipe reaches.

With War Chant you can just bring them to you without much relocation.

Thunderous Roar works well, but War Chant has a 10 sec CD and Thunderous Roar has 45 sec CD.

[Mukor]

I think part of the issue to consider is range.
When you try to equate Claw Swip to the Guards War Chant it is not quite the same.
(5 meter radius vs 18 meters)

So when a couple groups of adds come, say 20 seconds apart it means you are dragging
the existing mobs on you all around to get to where the radius of Claw Swipe reaches.

With War Chant you can just bring them to you without much relocation.

Thunderous Roar works well, but War Chant has a 10 sec CD and Thunderous Roar has 45 sec CD.

War chant is no taunt, only a damaging skill with a bit passive threat . It helps to keep the aggro for a few seconds but with war chant you don´t get it back. War chant dmg+passive generates around 40-60k which is lass than one hit if the dd crits.

So the only skill you can compare your aoe taunts with it is. Challenge wich has 1 minute cd.

All tank classes except you beos have only one aoe taunt and all with less numbers of targets as you.

[Oelle]

War chant is no taunt, only a damaging skill with a bit passive threat . It helps to keep the aggro for a few seconds but with war chant you don´t get it back. War chant dmg+passive generates around 40-60k which is lass than one hit if the dd crits.

So the only skill you can compare your aoe taunts with it is. Challenge wich has 1 minute cd.

All tank classes except you beos have only one aoe taunt and all with less numbers of targets as you.

claw swipe is no taunt either

[Mukor]

claw swipe is no taunt either

Well I missed the switch from claw swipe to tr.

ok. but even then we´ve a range skill to pull them, with a lost after the first strike, vs a melee aggro skill.

but comparing tr with wc for the cd is just wrong.

there you need to compare tr (45s(infinity targets) and challenge (60s/10+5 targets).

So whatz you ask for is a non-taunut aoe cry, which would be fair, not more taunts.
In numbers of aoe taunts beos has the lead, far more as needed. especially if you look back were the one of gurads with 30s cd was called op and gett nerfed.
You must fail a lot to loose the threat with three aoe taunts.
If you know how to tank even a captain with his one 6 targets skill can do it easely.

[Pelind]

Yeah no. Bear aggro is the ####, you just need to get the positioning and timing down. As a 2nd-main guard tank player, I can say the 1 or 2 times I ran bear tank were absolutely peaceful aggrowise after tanking guard, since you have so many safety nets with the multitude of aoe taunts.

[JLotro]

I have a guard also and it seems easier to hold aggro on the guard
with less phys mastery. You can invest in more defensive stats.

Now I have increased the phys mastery on the bear (>160k), at the expense
of some tact mit, and claw swipe is better at holding aggro.

btw: was not talking about more taunts

[Mukor]

I have a guard also and it seems easier to hold aggro on the guard
with less phys mastery. You can invest in more defensive stats.

Now I have increased the phys mastery on the bear (>160k), at the expense
of some tact mit, and claw swipe is better at holding aggro.

btw: was not talking about more taunts

With the three aoe taunts you don’t need any other skills to keep the aggro.
1. Taunt 5s force, in this time the dpser do 300k dmg. 2. Taunt copyy multiply it it to 2700k. Wait and then the 3. to 24300k. If the first wasn't avaiable again.
So absolutely no mastery needed.
Three aoe taunts are a joke and bypassed the whole mechanic.

[JLotro]

With the three aoe taunts you don’t need any other skills to keep the aggro.
1. Taunt 5s force, in this time the dpser do 300k dmg. 2. Taunt copyy multiply it it to 2700k. Wait and then the 3. to 24300k. If the first wasn't avaiable again.
So absolutely no mastery needed.
Three aoe taunts are a joke and bypassed the whole mechanic.

Well, it made a big difference for me holding multiple mobs
against dd using aoe. You seem disgruntled. Enjoy the game.

[Mukor]

Well, it made a big difference for me holding multiple mobs
against dd using aoe. You seem disgruntled. Enjoy the game.

Simply I don't understand why beos cry they cannot tank. When it's this faceroll easy with their three aoe taunts.
I've nothing against this three aoe taunts. I just see no reason for having more.
If they would take one or two of them ok,but atm it's op for the mechanic we've,especjally if you look on other classes for which one with 30s cd was defined as op and nerfed down to one minute cd, which is still ok and works fine. But you can't say in the one hand this is op and with the other you create something more op.

[JLotro]

Simply I don't understand why beos cry they cannot tank. When it's this faceroll easy with their three aoe taunts.
I've nothing against this three aoe taunts. I just see no reason for having more.
If they would take one or two of them ok,but atm it's op for the mechanic we've,especjally if you look on other classes for which one with 30s cd was defined as op and nerfed down to one minute cd, which is still ok and works fine. But you can't say in the one hand this is op and with the other you create something more op.

Interresting... but nobody here asks for another taunt.

[Mukor]

Interresting... but nobody here asks for another taunt.

Maybe not in this thread, but in others.
But in general beos need nothing more/New to do the tanking job. As long we stuck in this bad mechanic which we've since HD

[Oelle]

Maybe not in this thread, but in others.
But in general beos need nothing more/New to do the tanking job. As long we stuck in this bad mechanic which we've since HD

well... if all that counts for you is, if it works... then yes, beorning tanks work...
however, tanking with a beorning isn't really fun. you are mostly just standing around and wait while tanking. There isnt anything interesting to do.
After you secured threat via some taunts, nothing is left to do. There is no active component to beorning-tanking, like for all the other tanks. Other tanks have viable buffs to keep up or can help debuffing/buffing. All beorns can do is crosstrait for bee-debuff by going yellow and then using two skills each 10-15s... all other skills are mostly irrelevant. And with tactical dpsers and only fire damage being present mostly, even that is irrelevant.

So certainly, beorning tanking could be made more active and fun...
but if active and fun gameplay is irrelevant and all that counts is, if it works... then yes, beornings dont need any changes for tanking.

[Mukor]

well... if all that counts for you is, if it works... then yes, beorning tanks work...
however, tanking with a beorning isn't really fun. you are mostly just standing around and wait while tanking. There isnt anything interesting to do.
After you secured threat via some taunts, nothing is left to do. There is no active component to beorning-tanking, like for all the other tanks. Other tanks have viable buffs to keep up or can help debuffing/buffing. All beorns can do is crosstrait for bee-debuff by going yellow and then using two skills each 10-15s... all other skills are mostly irrelevant. And with tactical dpsers and only fire damage being present mostly, even that is irrelevant.

So certainly, beorning tanking could be made more active and fun...
but if active and fun gameplay is irrelevant and all that counts is, if it works... then yes, beornings dont need any changes for tanking.

don´t understand me wrong, I´ve got absolutly nothing against a changing in beo tanking, but if they would get other similiar skilass as the other tanks, tweo of the aoe taunts must vanished. Or they will get to op and nobody ask for someone other as a beotank.
And except captains the others tanks only keep aggro too. maybe they do ore cause they need to do.
But lets look at a guard what does he do besides aggroholding. warchant -5% out dmg (same as bees out of another line), maybe increase attack duration and reduce runspeed with a crited stagger, fortification +2% mits for the fellows. this it is what they (de)buff. besides this interuppting and taking corruption but I´m sure this can do a beo as well.
So not really more as beos do, especially they heal while tanking.

[JLotro]

Is it cool to hijack a thread for some complaint about other threads?

I'm having fun with Beorn as tank. It brought me back to the game
after being disappointed with the warden tanking changes and leaving
for over a year.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Pavlin]

With the three aoe taunts you don’t need any other skills to keep the aggro.
1. Taunt 5s force, in this time the dpser do 300k dmg. 2. Taunt copyy multiply it it to 2700k. Wait and then the 3. to 24300k. If the first wasn't avaiable again.
So absolutely no mastery needed.
Three aoe taunts are a joke and bypassed the whole mechanic.

You read it somewhere or expirience talks?
Pls dont post anymore.
It makes you look stupid.
Yep i dont care you report me or not.
Got enough of silly kids giving class balance ideas for a class they have no idea how to play.

[Mukor]

You read it somewhere or expirience talks?
Pls dont post anymore.
It makes you look stupid.
Yep i dont care you report me or not.
Got enough of silly kids giving class balance ideas for a class they have no idea how to play.

You don´t need to know anything else as how taunts works.
x s force (only interresting if you use them on start) + copy and multiply the threat of the first in the list by 9.
Well two are melee but if you react fast enough it doesn´t matter.
three aoe taunts make aggromanagment facerolling easy. it´s nearly impossible to fail.
All other classes can tank with one aoe taunt but beos need more as their three is hard to imagine too.

[Pavlin]

You don´t need to know anything else as how taunts works.
x s force (only interresting if you use them on start) + copy and multiply the threat of the first in the list by 9.
Well two are melee but if you react fast enough it doesn´t matter.
three aoe taunts make aggromanagment facerolling easy. it´s nearly impossible to fail.
All other classes can tank with one aoe taunt but beos need more as their three is hard to imagine too.

Once bring the targets to mele range, beor have no problem to keep agro.
The problem beo tanks have is lack of decent range aoe skills, not lack of taunts.

[Mukor]

Once bring the targets to mele range, beor have no problem to keep agro.
The problem beo tanks have is lack of decent range aoe skills, not lack of taunts.

Then would be the best solution to make the both melee taunts to aoes crys or at least one.
But even without the change at the current content with the spawn points and times it would work to pull them with the range taunt, or you can go to the spawn Position.
Groupspawns we got in glimmerdeep both bosses and anvil id1.
And in the anvil the range pull if you don't tank at the spawnposition can do your offtank.
All other fights the dpser just have to wait until All are melee. Pulling with your initial threat with a heal of yours range need some love of the lms raven until they're melee.
But just adding aoe cry(s) would make beos to op.
Other solution would be add them an aoe cry and redivmce challenge CD to 30s again.