Blackarrow Snares

[Fafoo]

Currently on live servers (haven't yet tested on Bullroarer) the Blackarrow ability "Snare" is not being mitigated by audacity or any sources of incoming damage reduction in general.

Snares (or Piercing Trap in the combat log) was hitting the person I was testing damage with for 5062 when the tooltip damage is 7112. We thought this number was strange because given that Audacity is a 30% damage reduction for freeps it should be hitting for 4978 before Physical Mitigation even comes into play. With further testing we found that both Knives Out (sets all incoming melee, ranged, and tactical damage to 15%) and ON buff (was at 9.8% damage reduction for Melee, Ranged, and Tactical) were both not affecting the damage Snares did, which stayed at 5062 for the duration of the testing. We can safely assume that further sources of incoming Melee, Ranged, and Tactical damage reduction like Tome of Defence and Dwarf-Endurance would also not affect Snares.

Wondering why Snares was being mitigated but not affected by incoming damage reduction we then noted that the person I was testing with had 28.8% Orc-Craft mitigation which was exactly how much damage Snares were being mitigated by. From this we can conclude that Snares work outside the bounds of Melee, Ranged, and Tactical but are still subject to Physical Mitigation.

This seems like an unintended feature of the ability that ends up making the skill heavily overbudgeted with damage in the Blackarrow kit (3 snares * 7112 tooltip every 2 seconds for 20 seconds = 213,360 damage mitigated only by Physical Mitigation and not incoming damage reduction on a 30 second cooldown) and should be looked into and most likely changed to be affected by incoming damage OR have its damage lowered to compensate.


EDIT: I thought I'd also mention that we further confirmed Snares are affected by Physical Mitigation by seeing the damage one dealt before and after popping a defensive Lore buff. It changed the damage value appropriately.

[Snobs]

Currently on live servers (haven't yet tested on Bullroarer) the Blackarrow ability "Snare" is not being mitigated by audacity or any sources of incoming damage reduction in general.

Snares (or Piercing Trap in the combat log) was hitting the person I was testing damage with for 5062 when the tooltip damage is 7112. We thought this number was strange because given that Audacity is a 30% damage reduction for freeps it should be hitting for 4978 before Physical Mitigation even comes into play. With further testing we found that both Knives Out (sets all incoming melee, ranged, and tactical damage to 15%) and ON buff (was at 9.8% damage reduction for Melee, Ranged, and Tactical) were both not affecting the damage Snares did, which stayed at 5062 for the duration of the testing. We can safely assume that further sources of incoming Melee, Ranged, and Tactical damage reduction like Tome of Defence and Dwarf-Endurance would also not affect Snares.

Wondering why Snares was being mitigated but not affected by incoming damage reduction we then noted that the person I was testing with had 28.8% Orc-Craft mitigation which was exactly how much damage Snares were being mitigated by. From this we can conclude that Snares work outside the bounds of Melee, Ranged, and Tactical but are still subject to Physical Mitigation.

This seems like an unintended feature of the ability that ends up making the skill heavily overbudgeted with damage in the Blackarrow kit (3 snares * 7112 tooltip every 2 seconds for 20 seconds = 213,360 damage mitigated only by Physical Mitigation and not incoming damage reduction on a 30 second cooldown) and should be looked into and most likely changed to be affected by incoming damage OR have its damage lowered to compensate.

Okay, so there are multiple things that need to be considered when talking about Blackarrow Snare Trap.

First, the problem you described above (that Audacity or other -Incoming Melee/Range/Tactical Damage buffs aren't reducing Snare Trap damage) can be explained by taking a look at Snare Trap itself:



As you can see, Snare Trap is not categorized as Melee, Ranged and/or Tactical, therefore it simply doesn't count as Melee, Ranged and/or Tactical Damage when you are hit and isn't properly mitigated via -Incoming Melee/Ranged/Tactical Damage. Only Orc-Craft Mitigation is reducing incoming damage of Snare Traps.

The second problem with Snare Trap is that it got unintentionally changed 5! Times after U23 Release (yes, actually FIVE TIMES). This was happening due to SSG making mistakes when they were changing NPC/Mob Damage on all Mobs in the game. Snare Trap and some other abilities (see below) have been unintentionally changed as well (although only NPC Damage should have been changed).

Some Blackarrow Abilites (namely Snare Trap, Fire Trap, Set Trap, Steadfast Barrage and also Fel Restoration on Defiler) apparantly count as NPC abilities and therefore have been accidentally changed. It was really weird when this first happened because the Blackarrow Snare Trap Damage jumped up and down every week (with every new Patch) from 200 Damage per DoT tick to 15,000 Damage, which has then (also accidentally) been reduced to 7,000 per DoT Tick where it is at right now. This isn't the original value, though. It should be at 3,500 Damage per DoT Tick.

It has been this way for almost 6 months now and SSG hasn't even noticed yet that they accidentally also changed Black Arrow Damage on those abilities and Defiler's Fel Restoration. Don't get me wrong, all abilities except Snare Trap and Steadfast Barrage would be completely useless if they weren't accidentally buffed. However, Snare Trap is just too strong at the moment because there is 0 Counterplay; You can't remove the DoT, it's not an Area-Only Effect like Fire Trap, you can not interrupt it in any way because it doesn't have an Induction, it's not mitigated properly because it isn't categorized as any Damage Source (see above). That is the main problem. They could literally DOUBLE ALL Blackarrow Abilities except Steadfast Barrage and Vital Target and then half Snare Trap and you would still deal less Damage as a Blackarrow. In some 1vs1 fights against Blackarrows, Snare Trap deals 12x as much damage as every single other abilities. SSG please?

Another thing to point out about Snare Trap is that it isn't affected by +Damage Abilities or Mastery in any way. A Blackarrow's Snare Trap deals the exact same damage with 6x Mastery Corruptions as with 0 Mastery. Only "Keen Eye" Stance increases Snare Trap damage. This is also the result of Snare Trap neither counting as Melee/Ranged or Tactical Damage.

It's actually ridicolous that SSG hasn't fixed this yet or at least acknowledged that they've made serious mistakes with their NPC Damage changes that also affected the above mentioned abilities. Also, anyone claiming that these accidental changes were intentional is delusional. The DoT tick jumped up and down nearly every week from 3,500 to 10,000, down to 500, down to 200, up to 15,000 and now it's at 7,000, none of which was intentional.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

Nice analysis.

Now tell me about how Runekeeper's Smouldering Wrath goes through most/all tactical mitigation while doing an order of magnitude more DPS than steadfast, on a lower cooldown....

...or how the most recent burglar changes make sense in PVP.

...or (insert long list of freep abilities) make sense in PVP.

[Chris91]

Now tell me about how Runekeeper's Smouldering Wrath goes through most/all tactical mitigation while doing an order of magnitude more DPS than steadfast, on a lower cooldown....

It doesn't, RKs have debuff that reduces your mitigation. Typically a good RK while only cast smouldering when you got the debuff hence why it seems to you as if it goes through mits

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with Steadfast as it's interuptable just like Smouldering

The traps could be nerfed (or rather fixed), but regular skills of BAs should be increased to compensate (just like Reaver damage should be increased as well)

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

It doesn't, RKs have debuff that reduces your mitigation. Typically a good RK while only cast smouldering when you got the debuff hence why it seems to you as if it goes through mits

You're forgetting context

RKs themselves have a debuff that negates -15% fire mitigation
In the same manner, RKs have a debuff that reduces armour rating by -15%.

Loremasters utilize the Raven pet AOE debuff (a short cooldown skill) to reduce fire mitigation by an additional 10-20% depending on whether they are using the pet buff from blue line

Loremaster tar strips away an additional -10%

Loremaster ancient craft strips away all creep armour rating.


Creeps have to face, at a minimum, -25% fire mitigation from spam-applicable debuffs on top of a major armour debuff that strips away any remaining mitigations.

Creeps can get, at most, around 55% tactical mitigation... best-case scenario against a typical LM+RK combo you face having only 20-25% fire mit if you are fully tact mit stacked (a huge cost)

If a creep is running only 3 tactical mitigations (around 35% fire mit), he's looking at 0% fire mitigation in this, a best-case scenario.



If the creep has the buffed version of raven debuff and is stuck in tar, they're facing -45% fire mitigation..... even if you have full tact mits (half of all corruption slots) you are running at 0%.




Again, this is JUST LM+RK combo...
I'm not even going to mention what happens when you introduce warden debuffs (-10% to -25% mitigation)
...or Red cappy pet debuffs (- most armour rating).
...or hunter with Bodkin arrows shows up with an additional -10% mitigation penetration
...or how cappy+burg can strip away all creep audacity inc damage reduction
...etc etc.


The only reason freeps are complaining right now is because most of them don't know how to utilize the abilities available to them.
Those that do know are taking on 2x their numbers in creeps and winning.

[Snobs]

Nice analysis.

Now tell me about how Runekeeper's Smouldering Wrath goes through most/all tactical mitigation while doing an order of magnitude more DPS than steadfast, on a lower cooldown....

...or how the most recent burglar changes make sense in PVP.

...or (insert long list of freep abilities) make sense in PVP.

Obviously, there are absurd classes/abilities on Freep side, too. This thread was directed at the one main Blackarrow issue that is existing at the moment and for quite a long time now (6 Months). There could be hundreds of threads about Freep Abilities, I agree.

Also, the Burglar changes were not made for PvP, PvP wasn't taking into consideration at all. They are actually very good changes for PvE. SSG doesn't care about PvP at all, unfortunately.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

Obviously, there are absurd classes/abilities on Freep side, too. This thread was directed at the one main Blackarrow issue that is existing at the moment and for quite a long time now (6 Months). There could be hundreds of threads about Freep Abilities, I agree.

Also, the Burglar changes were not made for PvP, PvP wasn't taking into consideration at all. They are actually very good changes for PvE. SSG doesn't care about PvP at all, unfortunately.

Perhaps we should start with the most egregious stuff on freepside first eh? like maybe the ability for a 6 man burg pack to AOE 1-shot a small craid of 12 without anyone being able to do anything about it?

[Snobs]

The only reason freeps are complaining right now is because most of them don't know how to utilize the abilities available to them.
Those that do know are taking on 2x their numbers in creeps and winning.

If you're talking about me, I'm definitly not complaining about Creeps being too strong which is obviously not the case at the moment. I'm playing Burglar, so big LULz.

The whole situation with Snare Traps is that there is 0 Counterplay to it and it requires 0 gameplay/skill (Yes, the same applies to many Freep classes, I know). They could literally triple the damage all other abilities (except Steadfast Barrage and Vital Target) as long as they redesign or change Snare Traps. Snare Trap being the only good damage skill besides Steadfast Barrage and Vital Target is just weak game design (although it isn't intentional at all).

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

If you're talking about me, I'm definitly not complaining about Creeps being too strong which is obviously not the case at the moment. I'm playing Burglar, so big LULz.

The whole situation with Snare Traps is that there is 0 Counterplay to it and it requires 0 gameplay/skill (Yes, the same applies to many Freep classes, I know). They could literally triple the damage all other abilities (except Steadfast Barrage and Vital Target) as long as they redesign or change Snare Traps. Snare Trap being the only good damage skill besides Steadfast Barrage and Vital Target is just weak game design (although it isn't intentional at all).

There is a counter play: Heals and Emergency skills.


What's the counter play for getting AOE 1-shot by burgs while running 6 phys mits?

[xxSniperxx]

What's the counter play for getting AOE 1-shot by burgs while running 6 phys mits?

Here's what some people would say:




6 phys mits? Nah, just slap on more mits. High IQ play.

[Fafoo]

For the record this thread isn't about nerfing Blackarrows or any other creeps, it's about a skill seemingly not working as intended. Keep the "but this other stuff is OP", "just outplay it lmao", and balance talk to other threads.

[Daenirion]

They're aware. This was posted back in October 2018.

Ok folks, the way Creep skill magnitude is calculated right now is currently tied fairly heavily to normal Mob damage. IE, if I make changes to the freep game balance, you guys get changed just as much, unavoidably. That's why you keep getting arbitrarily buffed or nerfed for no apparent reason as we make endgame balance changes to the main game.

That obviously needs to change - there is no way I can effectively balance your stats while they are tied to NPC damage rates - but happily it IS something that I can now reasonably fix over the next few patches, so that I can manage creep balance more or less completely separately from NPC mob balance.

But in order to get those skills locked into their own progressions and in the right place I'm gonna need constructive feedback and data, and I see a whole lot of 'deleted' posts in this thread currently, and that won't help.

The best start would be screenshots of your skill damage tooltips from the *initial* U23 release if you've got them lying around. They'll be handy for recalibrating your skills as I decouple them from the landscape mob damage progressions.

- Vastin

[xxSniperxx]

They're aware. This was posted back in October 2018.

The funny part was that literally nobody knew how much these skills hit/healed for before they broke so Vastin had no clue how to revert them to the original numbers.

[Maryam]

Perhaps we should start with the most egregious stuff on freepside first eh? like maybe the ability for a 6 man burg pack to AOE 1-shot a small craid of 12 without anyone being able to do anything about it?

Burg AoE radius is 5m, so the counter is not to have a whole half raid stacked up on one guy, trying to orc stealth behind a tree or something, when a burg pack is out.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

Burg AoE radius is 5m, so the counter is not to have a whole half raid stacked up on one guy, trying to orc stealth behind a tree or something, when a burg pack is out.

doesn't really work when burgs can just 1-shot whatever WLs/Healers you have and then dance around in knives-out invincibility while everyone else bleeds out... don't even need AOE, its just the extra nail in the coffin.

[sapienze]

The Black Arrow Snare is fine. Don't want to die to a Snare? Then don't run into it, through it, or let a BA drop one on you. It is just that simple.


Be happy I'm not out there solo wiping out half a Fraid with Snares/Fire Traps and doing 54k tiks with Steadfast Barrage

[pinlu]

Snares are perfectly fine , go get some pelennor 4slot / osgilliath eslot jewels or even better some anvil gear and stack morale and damage. Its not broken vs many freep classes atm, burg knives, bear heals in yellow or composure in red , guardian TOD, mini bubble ,hunter press on bloodarrow pots ,champ fight on - list goes on. Granted these do not cancel snares ,but either outheal or reduce dmg.
Second option is to kite on your ranged or bait the ba inton dropping as a mele and then rush when they go to run away or move back away from snares.
Nerfing snares isnt a solution for an already unbalanced pvp. If snares kill you every time hint hint go gear up abit

[Snobs]

I feel like this discussion is going into a wrong direction.

Nobody is saying that Blackarrows should be nerfed by itself, well equipped Freeps are already superior in most cases. The only point I and many others would like to have addressed is that 80-90% of ALL incoming Damage against Blackarrows is coming from a single Skill that isn't even working correctly (i. e. accidental buffs after U23 and not being mitigated properly). In addition to that, it is basically the only Skill that has 0 Counterplay except absurd freep healing like Touch&Go. This isn't fun, this is poor game design. Yes, we could also have this discussion about Freeps and their Broken Skills, nobody is denying that.

Nerfing Snare Trap and increasing ALL other abilities (except Steadfast Barrage and Vital Target maybe) to compensate this nerf is the right way to go. It could potentially even buff Blackarrows overall (as long as the other Abilities are buffed well enough), it will also increase Skill Ceiling which is always good (=being required to press more abilities is requiring more skill).

[J-Moneyforever]

As usual 90% of the people in the thread miss the point of the thread. It's not about "nerfing BAs" we would all be fine with BAs doing the exact same amount of damage they do now but with a thoughtful or semi-thoughtful rotation. If some of the snares and steadfast damage was rebalanced to tangleshot/VT/Screaming/PT we would not be upset. This is about a request to fix a bug. Because no skills are intended to go through audacity. Pretending that this is a thread calling for BA nerfs is a laughably weak straw man.

[sapienze]

Snare , Fire Trap, and Set Trap have always gone outside of Audacity. I doubt anyone knew this because, no one used these skills much at all for years. No one bothered with Steadfast because its damage was insignificant. No one used Snare or its enhanced version because they weren't willing to give up a slot for it. I always used these two skills just for the non damage purposes included in them. Which were, to keep a Freep in combat and to slow them.

Snare has been always a fast skill. Used for offense and defense. Just because the skill isn't classified as some here would like doesn't make it broken or bugged.

Steadfast is easily countered by interrupting its channel duration.

Providing examples based on 1v1s is just lolz. This is not a real time situation because no BA can use all its ranged skills effectively against a melee class while in melee range and especially a melee based player who knows their class. Essentially this is a complaint of why cant a melee class fight in melee range and survive. So yes the Snare will do most of the damage in a 1v1 of such a nature.



These skills, Snare and Steadfast have effective counters. The Snare rated 7k tick is acceptable. No one ever said some noob has to run through or into all of them.


I'm not sold on this proposed change that isn't a nerf. Especially reading some Burg says the recent changes to their class is good and PvMP wasn't a consideration because reasons. Perhaps Burgs should be denied access to the Moors because they are broken for pvp. You know, considerations and all.

[Snobs]

Snare , Fire Trap, and Set Trap have always gone outside of Audacity. I doubt anyone knew this because, no one used these skills much at all for years. No one bothered with Steadfast because its damage was insignificant. No one used Snare or its enhanced version because they weren't willing to give up a slot for it. I always used these two skills just for the non damage purposes included in them. Which were, to keep a Freep in combat and to slow them.

Snare has been always a fast skill. Used for offense and defense. Just because the skill isn't classified as some here would like doesn't make it broken or bugged.

Steadfast is easily countered by interrupting its channel duration.

Providing examples based on 1v1s is just lolz. This is not a real time situation because no BA can use all its ranged skills effectively against a melee class while in melee range and especially a melee based player who knows their class. Essentially this is a complaint of why cant a melee class fight in melee range and survive. So yes the Snare will do most of the damage in a 1v1 of such a nature.



These skills, Snare and Steadfast have effective counters. The Snare rated 7k tick is acceptable. No one ever said some noob has to run through or into all of them.


I'm not sold on this proposed change that isn't a nerf. Especially reading some Burg says the recent changes to their class is good and PvMP wasn't a consideration because reasons. Perhaps Burgs should be denied access to the Moors because they are broken for pvp. You know, considerations and all.

I'm saying it would be very beneficial if not all Blackarrow Abilities would be basically worthless compared to Snare Trap and Steadfast Barrage.

Also, you clearly misunderstood what I was saying regarding the recent Burglar Changes. Of course, Burglars are OP in the Moors at the moment, nobody denies that. However, realistically speaking, NONE of the Burglar Changes were made to make Burglars better in PvP (from SSG's perspective), its main purpose was to buff Burglars in PvE situations which is what they did. PvE changes aren't seperated from PvP, so it also resulted in Burglars being as strong as they are now, but this is another problem that SSG will most likely never address. I didn't say these changes were good for PvP at all.

[sapienze]

I'm saying it would be very beneficial if not all Blackarrow Abilities would be basically worthless compared to Snare Trap and Steadfast Barrage.

Also, you clearly misunderstood what I was saying regarding the recent Burglar Changes. Of course, Burglars are OP in the Moors at the moment, nobody denies that. However, realistically speaking, NONE of the Burglar Changes were made to make Burglars better in PvP (from SSG's perspective), its main purpose was to buff Burglars in PvE situations which is what they did. PvE changes aren't seperated from PvP, so it also resulted in Burglars being as strong as they are now, but this is another problem that SSG will most likely never address. I didn't say these changes were good for PvP at all.

Actually it is what you are not saying, would be beneficial to you.

The Black Arrow is fine. It has a limited level of depth to its class which is acceptable. Just because another chooses to ezmode with two skills doesn't make the class broken. It certainly isn't like U22 Hunters dancing around one shotting any Creep. It isn't like the drive by Dot Wardens of updates past. It isn't like the rabid guards pounding several Creeps into the dirt and then charging away at full health. Holy jeepers the Guard is melee class with longer than mid ranged skills. It isn't like the RK stun stone stunning a Creep numerous times just because and no pot can help. It isn't like the Beorning's Wrath which has absolutely no counter to. What it is, is a ranged Creep class you can't just run up to, get positional and watch it die while laughing. If you don't like Snares then stay out of them. Plain and simple. Don't want to get Barraged, then think your approach better to avoid the ticks.

I clearly understand what you are saying and what you are denying in the same sentences. Nothing was employed by SSG with PvMP in mind. Yet you want the BA changed and not the Burg or for that matter any Freep class seemingly. You see, this is the same problem. It doesn't matter what the class is.


Risk adversity must be part of the leveling process for today's PvE players. Creeps aren't NPCS. Players just play Creeps modeled after NPCs.


Again for clarity: Don't want to die to Snare or Barrage then take the steps to avoid or counter these skills. Its fairly straight forward.

Think about it and you will find the BA is quite easy to defeat.

[Fafoo]

This seems like an unintended feature of the ability that ends up making the skill heavily overbudgeted with damage in the Blackarrow kit

...should be looked into and most likely changed to be affected by incoming damage OR have its damage lowered to compensate.

For the record this thread isn't about nerfing Blackarrows or any other creeps, it's about a skill seemingly not working as intended. Keep the "but this other stuff is OP", "just outplay it lmao", and balance talk to other threads.

Just thought I'd reiterate these points because SOME people don't seem to get it.



Off topic I do agree with what some others are saying though about redistributing the damage from Snares and Steadfast to other BA skills. The current state of things with all of BA's damage centered in just a few skills isn't healthy gameplay and saying "just don't walk through snares 4head" is laughable when they can be instantly placed on top of you or kited through. Steadfast is more easily counterable but still far too strong compared to a normal BA rotation.

Providing examples based on 1v1s is just lolz.

If you're going to say that things shouldn't be balanced from a 1v1 perspective about Snares then at least stay consistent: Steadfast is cancer in large fights because the animation isn't very noticeable and by the time you realize you're being hit by Steadfast Barrage, identify the BA steadfasting you, and run up to interrupt them you've most likely taken several ticks of the skill (and probably run through Snares in the process if there isn't a ranged interrupt available ).

[sapienze]

Just thought I'd reiterate these points because SOME people don't seem to get it.



Off topic I do agree with what some others are saying though about redistributing the damage from Snares and Steadfast to other BA skills. The current state of things with all of BA's damage centered in just a few skills isn't healthy gameplay and saying "just don't walk through snares 4head" is laughable when they can be instantly placed on top of you or kited through.



If you're going to say that things shouldn't be balanced from a 1v1 perspective about Snares then at least stay consistent: Steadfast is cancer in large fights because the animation isn't very noticeable and by the time you realize you're being hit by Steadfast Barrage, identify the BA steadfasting you, and run up to interrupt them you've most likely taken several ticks of the skill (and probably run through Snares in the process if there isn't a ranged interrupt available ).

No the Ba's Snare cannot be placed instantly on your position. First, If you know a Snare is going to be dropped, why would you run through it? Second, You have to let them do it, again why would you let them do it? So yes, it is laughable reading about a player who can't decide to not suicide.


PvMP should NEVER be adjusted to 1v1. Never! It is part of the reason we have several problems with classes by choices advocated for in the past. Furthermore asking for changes to nullify the uniqueness of the skills just makes the problems magnified.


This thread is founded on nothing. No basis exist for the reasons expressed. It's dead in the water. Snare and Fire Trap never were part the of the Audacity scheme. Steadfast Barrage is fine and has its counters. There is no need to redistribute BA damage. Next week, next month, next year all this could change and totally without regard to PvMP but everyone can be sure all the Freep classes will remain intact and likely more OP than they are today.

[Fafoo]

No the Ba's Snare cannot be placed instantly on your position. First, If you know a Snare is going to be dropped, why would you run through it? Second, You have to let them do it, again why would you let them do it? So yes, it is laughable reading about a player who can't decide to not suicide.

I guess anyone playing Melee can go screw themselves? These two skills (Steadfast Barrage and Snare) combined also hurt any class without a ranged Interrupt (ex. Hunters) pretty hard. And yes I mean Interrupt and not just any old CC, since a BA can hit Akulhun, Mordy/Tyrant brand, or just prepot Stun + Fear pots and then go into Steadfast and rip you apart from a range. Any why wouldn't they? It's certainly worth the potion or brand cooldowns for the sake of preventing an interrupt on Steadfast in a fight compared to saving them since that one skill is the majority of your kit's ranged damage. Want to go in to interrupt them? Have fun with the Snares.

PvMP should NEVER be adjusted to 1v1. Never! It is part of the reason we have several problems with classes by choices advocated for in the past.

Asking for PvP to be perfectly balanced for 1v1s and for raid vs raid is unrealistic and essentially impossible but I still think solo and small scale fights should at least be taken into account for balancing purposes. Difference of opinion. That being said, the skills are extremely broken in large scale fights in their current state as well. Why don't you address this part of what I posted earlier:

Steadfast is cancer in large fights because the animation isn't very noticeable and by the time you realize you're being hit by Steadfast Barrage, identify the BA steadfasting you, and run up to interrupt them you've most likely taken several ticks of the skill (and probably run through Snares in the process if there isn't a ranged interrupt available ).

Next...

Furthermore asking for changes to nullify the uniqueness of the skills just makes the problems magnified.

If you feel like Snares ignoring audacity is part of the uniqueness of the skill that's great. I still disagree with you but whatever. In that case the damage should STILL be lowered because it's STILL extremely overbudgeted in the BA kit. And like I said earlier I'm not calling for an overall nerf to BA's power, in my opinion the damage should be increased in their other skills to compensate. That's just a discussion for a different thread.

This thread is founded on nothing. No basis exist for the reasons expressed. It's dead in the water. Snare and Fire Trap never were part the of the Audacity scheme. Steadfast Barrage is fine and has its counters. There is no need to redistribute BA damage. Next week, next month, next year all this could change and totally without regard to PvMP but everyone can be sure all the Freep classes will remain intact and likely more OP than they are today.

This last part seems like a big joke. I'd still say the way Snares interacts with incoming damage reduction should've been changed back when Snares did absolutely no damage because it's still dumb. That goes for Fire Trap, that goes for whatever that dumb Root trap nobody uses is called, and it goes for Hunter traps as well. Ignoring a baseline PvP damage reduction that everyone has that applies to every other skill in the game isn't "uniqueness" it's stupid.

Steadfast Barrage is most certainly NOT fine, while it should do more damage than a standard BA rotation because it's a cooldown skill that can be countered but it SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT be doing the majority of a BA's ranged damage and anybody saying that the current state of either of these skills relative to the entire rest of the BA's kit is healthy is frankly out of their mind.


I would challenge you to address everything in this post and try to argue each point logically but I don't think that's going to happen. What's probably going to happen is that a few points will be cherrypicked, talked about briefly, and then the same couple of (incorrect) ideas from earlier in this thread along with a "no ur wrong im right i just cant explain why very well thread is dead in the water xd" will be restated. If that's the case please don't even bother replying.