Blackarrow Snares

[sapienze]

I guess anyone playing Melee can go screw themselves? These two skills (Steadfast Barrage and Snare) combined also hurt any class without a ranged Interrupt (ex. Hunters) pretty hard. And yes I mean Interrupt and not just any old CC, since a BA can hit Akulhun, Mordy/Tyrant brand, or just prepot Stun + Fear pots and then go into Steadfast and rip you apart from a range. Any why wouldn't they? It's certainly worth the potion or brand cooldowns for the sake of preventing an interrupt on Steadfast in a fight compared to saving them since that one skill is the majority of your kit's ranged damage. Want to go in to interrupt them? Have fun with the Snares.



Asking for PvP to be perfectly balanced for 1v1s and for raid vs raid is unrealistic and essentially impossible but I still think solo and small scale fights should at least be taken into account for balancing purposes. Difference of opinion. That being said, the skills are extremely broken in large scale fights in their current state as well. Why don't you address this part of what I posted earlier:


Next...



If you feel like Snares ignoring audacity is part of the uniqueness of the skill that's great. I still disagree with you but whatever. In that case the damage should STILL be lowered because it's STILL extremely overbudgeted in the BA kit. And like I said earlier I'm not calling for an overall nerf to BA's power, in my opinion the damage should be increased in their other skills to compensate. That's just a discussion for a different thread.



This last part seems like a big joke. I'd still say the way Snares interacts with incoming damage reduction should've been changed back when Snares did absolutely no damage because it's still dumb. That goes for Fire Trap, that goes for whatever that dumb Root trap nobody uses is called, and it goes for Hunter traps as well. Ignoring a baseline PvP damage reduction that everyone has that applies to every other skill in the game isn't "uniqueness" it's stupid.

Steadfast Barrage is most certainly NOT fine, while it should do more damage than a standard BA rotation because it's a cooldown skill that can be countered but it SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT be doing the majority of a BA's ranged damage and anybody saying that the current state of either of these skills relative to the entire rest of the BA's kit is healthy is frankly out of their mind.


I would challenge you to address everything in this post and try to argue each point logically but I don't think that's going to happen. What's probably going to happen is that a few points will be cherrypicked, talked about briefly, and then the same couple of (incorrect) ideas from earlier in this thread along with a "no ur wrong im right i just cant explain why very well thread is dead in the water xd" will be restated. If that's the case please don't even bother replying.

I'm not the one being presented with a challenge here. This is placed upon yourself and you haven't provided a solid basis to meet the challenge. By cherry picking the BA to be nerfed without inclusive context of the larger broken mess is just that cherry picking. You want to argue point by point about the BA exclusively in relation to our PvMP on the preceding basis? Good luck with that.

[J-Moneyforever]

I'm not the one being presented with a challenge here. This is placed upon yourself and you haven't provided a solid basis to meet the challenge. By cherry picking the BA to be nerfed without inclusive context of the larger broken mess is just that cherry picking. You want to argue point by point about the BA exclusively in relation to our PvMP on the preceding basis? Good luck with that.

As multiple people said. No one asking for a nerf. And as expected instead of addressing the points you concocted a straw man and refused to answer valid rebuttals to your post. Pretty on brand for you.

[Fafoo]

I'm not the one being presented with a challenge here. This is placed upon yourself and you haven't provided a solid basis to meet the challenge. By cherry picking the BA to be nerfed without inclusive context of the larger broken mess is just that cherry picking. You want to argue point by point about the BA exclusively in relation to our PvMP on the preceding basis? Good luck with that.

And like I said earlier I'm not calling for an overall nerf to BA's power, in my opinion the damage should be increased in their other skills to compensate. That's just a discussion for a different thread.

[Daenirion]

And then people wonder why the Devs don't even bother. Why can't some people just take a step back, put down their creep/freep goggles and try to be unbiased. Talk about shooting yourself in the knee.

It's like watching a 10 year old scream at his mother on the street because she refused to buy him ice cream. ''BUT MOM, all the other kids in my class are allowed to eat ice cream!!11! BabyRage''

No one's denying here that Freep classes are broken. This thread is about BAs and when ~70% of your damage comes from 2 skills, then it needs to be adressed at some point if we want a more balanced game. Isn't it in your own self interest to add more depth to your class by making other skills more viable? Again, no one's saying that BAs should be nerfed and all the other freep classes should be left alone. Can't you see that, or are you just unable to press more than 2 skills? Not sure why else you'd defend this.

[sapienze]

As multiple people said. No one asking for a nerf. And as expected instead of addressing the points you concocted a straw man and refused to answer valid rebuttals to your post. Pretty on brand for you.

If the BA were truly out of line in the larger scope of PvMP balance, I would offer no objections. I know it is not.

You all can dress up the rational all you like but in the end it is a nerf. Plain and simple.



This should be your main concern and not the, Waaa! I died in the Moors.

Prompting Vastin to tell us if and when the tether between Creeps and NPCs will be severed. Then PvMP balance will be much easier to attempt and take far less time. This thread and its content won't. You are suggesting for Vastin to throw out all his previous work on core stat balance in the damage stat curve he created for the interaction between Players and NPCs. I have doubts Vastin will give that notion even a few seconds of time.

[Fafoo]

If the BA were truly out of line in the larger scope of PvMP balance, I would offer no objections. I know it is not.

Wargs: Damage heavily reliant on smart use of animation cancels and positional damage.

Reaver: Kinda weak right now but can do strong burst by setting up a big impale and hoping it crits. Further skill gap between players through use of their many immediate skills to get off this combo more quickly as well as debuff layering and appropriate timing of certain skills.

Spider: Acceptable sustained damage with only a couple skills but with a huge emphasis on control that makes their kit both large and difficult to play at peak efficiency.

Blackarrow: ME HIT DA SNARE AND DA STEADFAST!!!@!@!@!




This change we're proposing would only be a "nerf" in that it would increase the skill cap of Blackarrow to a level that is acceptable compared to literally every single other class in the game. Inherently you're right it IS a nerf, because you'd be forced to do more work for the same output. Granted it's a minor one because most people are capable of hitting Puncture Target, Screaming Shafts, and the like but it would certainly make BA harder to play than its current state.

That does NOT mean the current state of BAs are acceptable and you have yet to post ANYTHING CONSTRUCTIVE AT ALL RELATED TO THIS. It's almost like you've been willfully ignoring the fact that 80% of a class' damage being centered in two skills is:
1. bad design
2. very clearly an unintended side effect from certain other changes that have been made
3. harmful to the skill cap of the class
4. completely out of line with every other class in the game on both freepside and creepside

ALONG WITH ignoring every other logical point people in this thread including myself have been trying to make to convince you that maybe, just maybe, you are WRONG.


Before I challenged you to look at an argument and actually address some of the points I had made, instead you did exactly what I said you would and completely ignored them all in favor of reposting the same mindless drivel you've been filling this thread with. Now instead I would like to ask you to stop wasting my time and the time of everyone else reading this garbage.

[wretchesandkings]

fix wargs rotation while you're at it.

as for steadfast barrage, Idc about the damage aspect, you guys can fight on that. I have always disliked this skill for how slow it is. 1 minute channel skill and the interval between each shot is stupidly long? no thank you. please make it shorter, say 10 seconds duration, and make it tick much faster.

Also, the enhanced trait is supposed to let you use it on the move? it's been broken for as long as i can remember.

[Daenirion]

Also, the enhanced trait is supposed to let you use it on the move? it's been broken for as long as i can remember.

Go to your class trainer, remove all class traits and then put them back in. That should fix it supposedly.

[sapienze]

Now instead I would like to ask you to stop wasting my time and the time of everyone else reading this garbage.

You've exhausted every possible angle in this already. You might want to consider it is you wasting Dev time. There is a larger picture here than you willingly refusing to adapt. If you aren't willing then do so as you please but it won't change anything. Your motives are clear and anyone with half a clue can see them clearly. Being honest would likely get a better result. You can't expect to face roll thru Creeps as if they are NPCs. Accept this fact and learn to play better.

[Fafoo]

You've exhausted every possible angle in this already. You might want to consider it is you wasting Dev time. There is a larger picture here than you willingly refusing to adapt. If you aren't willing then do so as you please but it won't change anything. Your motives are clear and anyone with half a clue can see them clearly. Being honest would likely get a better result. You can't expect to face roll thru Creeps as if they are NPCs. Accept this fact and learn to play better.

Oof.

[Kromachine]

this black arrows traps are a joke, and must be fixed and nerfed very fast. all the creep players roll now a ba, and use only traps. all the ppl say that. creeps and freeps. 40 creeps on evernight every day and the 30 are ba's. normal? nop of course.

[Chris91]

This isnt even a balancing issue first though, but a clear bug

ANY skill going through Audacity damage reduction is bugged, period. There's skills that go through damage type mitigation (physical/tactical mitigation) - those skills have tooltips indicating that. There isn't a single skill in the game that is intended to go through damage source mitigations (melee/ranged/tactical defence)

Fix the bugs first and then worry about balance. Balancing around unfixed bugs is just putting bandaid over bandaid

[xxSniperxx]

this black arrows traps are a joke, and must be fixed and nerfed very fast. all the creep players roll now a ba, and use only traps. all the ppl say that. creeps and freeps. 40 creeps on evernight every day and the 30 are ba's. normal? nop of course.

this burglars are a joke, and must be fixed and nerfed very fast. all the freep players roll now a burg, and attack only in burg packs. all the ppl say that. creeps and freeps. 40 freeps on Arkenstone every day and the 30 are burgs. normal? nop of course.

I fixed it for you.

[TronGilrain]

this burglars are a joke, and must be fixed and nerfed very fast. all the freep players roll now a burg, and attack only in burg packs. all the ppl say that. creeps and freeps. 40 freeps on Arkenstone every day and the 30 are burgs. normal? nop of course.

I fixed it for you.

You wrong mate ! Freeps on Evernight can't leave gv stairs cause there are traps in bushes!!! Its health&safety issues.

[Fafoo]

this burglars are a joke, and must be fixed and nerfed very fast. all the freep players roll now a burg, and attack only in burg packs. all the ppl say that. creeps and freeps. 40 freeps on Arkenstone every day and the 30 are burgs. normal? nop of course.

I fixed it for you.

Nobody here is saying burgs are balanced either, in fact I think they're pretty disgustingly busted atm. That being said, burglars being dumb OP doesn't justify BA having a broken skillset centered entirely around 2 abilities. They're BOTH wrong. Make a different thread about burgs with some insights regarding how you think they should be changed and hopefully both will get fixed eventually along with everything else wrong with PvP

[xxSniperxx]

Nobody here is saying burgs are balanced either, in fact I think they're pretty disgustingly busted atm. That being said, burglars being dumb OP doesn't justify BA having a broken skillset centered entirely around 2 abilities. They're BOTH wrong. Make a different thread about burgs with some insights regarding how you think they should be changed and hopefully both will get fixed eventually along with everything else wrong with PvP

Nah

[Fafoo]

This is fine. Everything is fine.

[Maryam]

this burglars are a joke, and must be fixed and nerfed very fast. all the freep players roll now a burg, and attack only in burg packs. all the ppl say that. creeps and freeps. 40 freeps on Arkenstone every day and the 30 are burgs. normal? nop of course.

Creep Math, lol.

[xxSniperxx]

Creep Math, lol.

It's called satire, if you even know what that means. Whenever I talk to LOTRO players I often find myself oversimplifying everything to the elementary school level.

me: "wargs dont macro"
some random baby boomer: "whaddya mean? he used 30 skills in 6 seconds!!! if you were serving in 'nam then you would know that that's semi-automatic!"
me: "half of those are autoattacks"
them: "so he's macroing autoattacks, either way he's been reported"
me:

[Maryam]

It's called satire, if you even know what that means. Whenever I talk to LOTRO players I often find myself oversimplifying everything to the elementary school level.

Sorry, I just assumed your post was ignorant and/or hyperbole, and not that your false equivalency was a failed attempt at satire.

[Aeviternus]

Sorry, I just assumed your post was ignorant and/or hyperbole, and not that your false equivalency was a failed attempt at satire.

Even now, it's as if you still do not understand what makes the post satirical. Which, of itself, is rather amusing.

(Hint: take the original comment in context. Maybe you'll get there eventually!)

[Maryam]

Even now, it's as if you still do not understand what makes the post satirical. Which, of itself, is rather amusing.

(Hint: take the original comment in context. Maybe you'll get there eventually!)

Satire is typically exaggeration of the opponent's beliefs/politics/stance to the point of absurdity, although it sometimes takes the opposite approach and uses diminution to accomplish the same thing, what it doesn't do is merely flip the argument to the reverse, "It is raining BAs" to it is "Raining Burgs."