It is basically humanly impossible to reach Level 60 on all Virtues on a brand new Character

[Arnenna]

I found the 1000 VXP for the Summer festival wrapper quest. Anyone know if there is more available elsewhere in the festival, or is that the extent of the extra VXP until you get to max level repeatables?

There's 1000 vxp for the heat of summer (intro). I would assume that there will be vxp for the heat of summer (intermediate), and hopefully, a higher amount of it. Haven't seen any other vxp around. If they are awarding it for any festival deeds on this festival, I won't benefit, having done all those deeds years ago.

[Thornglen]

You Have to Laugh:

Quest: Too Much Festival awards 50 VXP

They'll be in stitches around the Needham Office today.

There's 1000 vxp for the heat of summer (intro). I would assume that there will be vxp for the heat of summer (intermediate), and hopefully, a higher amount of it. Haven't seen any other vxp around. If they are awarding it for any festival deeds on this festival, I won't benefit, having done all those deeds years ago.

50 VXP for a daily. Festival runs 21 days, so that is 1050 if you do it every single day.
1000 for the first wrapper, maybe 2000 for the 2nd, 5000 for the 3rd? (yet to be seen, obviously, but they have to toe the line between too little to be worth it or too much to miss out on)

So maybe 4 or 5 deeds worth if you manage to get it all.

Additional VXP is nice, but it looks like festivals might not be a source of much overall.
I was specifically looking to compare to what might be lost by completing deeds while capped and level-locked with the Stone.

[Arnenna]

50 VXP for a daily. Festival runs 21 days, so that is 1050 if you do it every single day.
1000 for the first wrapper, maybe 2000 for the 2nd, 5000 for the 3rd? (yet to be seen, obviously, but they have to toe the line between too little to be worth it or too much to miss out on)

So maybe 4 or 5 deeds worth if you manage to get it all.

Additional VXP is nice, but it looks like festivals might not be a source of much overall.
I was specifically looking to compare to what might be lost by completing deeds while capped and level-locked with the Stone.

By daily you mean Thrang/Picnic, or is there some other daily I missed? I didnlt get any vxp from the daily wrapper */7.

There is not 3rd, it's intro and intermediate iirc.

the festival vxp seems really small, especially that 50vxp. That should have another zero on the end of it, and be less often.

1000 + 2000 (if it is indeed that amount) + 1050 = 4050. Two ranks of virtue for grinding the heck out of a whole festival, really isn't worth the work.

[Arnenna]

There is 1000 VXP available for completing Thrang t2 x 7.

[Findulas]

I have three toons that I play regularly, two older and my main a high elf that I AoV'd with Mordor, after the update the high elf has all her virtues maxed except the new one, the other two older ones do not. All have completed most all the deeds in game so I have nothing to go back to for vxp for the other older toons. So paid advantage right there. The other two I guess it's a endless grind of festivals and dailies to max out theirs and to max out the new one on the high elf.

[Olgomil]

50 VXP in a lost items quest at the Party Tree, and other 50 for the lost items quest in Thorins Hall Inn. Celondim one have not the 50 VXP.

Sergio :-)

[Ballie]

There is 1000 VXP available for completing Thrang t2 x 7.

The details in that quest mention T2 but not the level. Did a quick test on a T2 lvl 50 to confirm it doesn't advance. Had to be sure...

So not available to your levelling newcomer.


The first five day wrapper and the daily Too Much Festival will be accessible with the encore. A 10 day encore is unlikely?

Not sure peeps will be doing the 21st day of picking up clumsy Foxgloves' possessions what with celebrating getting Wit to rank 1. Oddly it doesn't advance the daily 0/7 either.

[Moln]

By daily you mean Thrang/Picnic, or is there some other daily I missed? I didnlt get any vxp from the daily wrapper */7.

There is not 3rd, it's intro and intermediate iirc.

the festival vxp seems really small, especially that 50vxp. That should have another zero on the end of it, and be less often.

1000 + 2000 (if it is indeed that amount) + 1050 = 4050. Two ranks of virtue for grinding the heck out of a whole festival, really isn't worth the work.

Not worth the work, and not of a magnitude that's relevant to OP.

[Thornglen]

Not sure peeps will be doing the 21st day of picking up clumsy Foxgloves' possessions what with celebrating getting Wit to rank 1.

Someone mentioned a 50 VXP daily at Thorin's as well. So day 20 could be celebrating rank 2!

[Olgomil]

Someone mentioned a 50 VXP daily at Thorin's as well. So day 20 could be celebrating rank 2!

Yeah, Lost Items quest at Thorins Hall Inn. 2 dailies, 100 VXP a day...

Sergio :-)

[PBL]

the daily in vale gives 3k vxp every 2 days

[Ballie]

the daily in vale gives 3k vxp every 2 days

Only just gotten to this point but the way I figured it was I could do 2 days of these 2 shared instance quests and get the wrapped 3,000 VXP for each but just once per week and this wrapper would reset on Thursday sometime. I can still do both these instances all week long but the wrapper would be on CD and wouldn't kick in. More than the initial 2 runs would just be earning coin.


Yeah but 6,000 VXP and 1500 Embers a week is still only for the capped players not the newcomers, they will need every bonus source from festivals to lessen the grind at cap.

[Dorri_Hammerfist]

Only just gotten to this point but the way I figured it was I could do 2 days of these 2 shared instance quests and get the wrapped 3,000 VXP for each but just once per week and this wrapper would reset on Thursday sometime. I can still do both these instances all week long but the wrapper would be on CD and wouldn't kick in. More than the initial 2 runs would just be earning coin.


Yeah but 6,000 VXP and 1500 Embers a week is still only for the capped players not the newcomers, they will need every bonus source from festivals to lessen the grind at cap.

Minas Morgul expansion will too have weeklies or dailies with VXP so not a problem for newcomers at all

[Thornglen]

Do we know whether VXP daily/weekly quests will be removed when there are new areas or a new level cap? (Similar to how instance challenges can only be done at cap, leaving leveling players behind.)

[Moln]

Minas Morgul expansion will too have weeklies or dailies with VXP so not a problem for newcomers at all

Will it have dailies *too* or will it have dailies *instead*?

The wording of thedevs' comments regarding 'endgame' dailies on LS (which may have been in the patch notes or a blue name somewhere in this thread, I don't recall)suggest strongly that SSG's plan is to retire those quests when the level raise occurs, and if they do so (and we can observe this in four months or so), I think it's a safe bet the same thing happens to the Vales dailies.

[Ballie]

Whilst waiting on tomorrow's festival wrapper to see what vxp reward that offers, I was looking at the deed log for the vales.

It seems there are quite a lot of virtue earning deeds for the area. Now I've done the Beasts and Wargs slayers, it's probably near impossible not to complete them given the amount of meat the locals get through despite the animal welfare lobby in the region and the weeklies.

My theory crafting has needed some diversion and I'm trying to find a treasure chest in the vales that has some local Goblin and Orc presence. Why? Because if I can find one and have my last orc and goblin dotted and slowed I could possibly get one massive vxp hit:

2,000 for each separate slayer, 2,000 for the slayer wrapper. The last treasure chest gets 2,000 in turn getting the Explorer 2,000 and the combination tripping the 4,000 from the Deeds of the Vales meta.

And that's 14,000 vxp that has to be dealt with. Don't worry I don't slot any actually useful virtues.

[Thornglen]

50 VXP for a daily. Festival runs 21 days, so that is 1050 if you do it every single day.
1000 for the first wrapper, maybe 2000 for the 2nd, 5000 for the 3rd? (yet to be seen, obviously, but they have to toe the line between too little to be worth it or too much to miss out on)

So maybe 4 or 5 deeds worth if you manage to get it all.

Additional VXP is nice, but it looks like festivals might not be a source of much overall.
I was specifically looking to compare to what might be lost by completing deeds while capped and level-locked with the Stone.

By daily you mean Thrang/Picnic, or is there some other daily I missed? I didnlt get any vxp from the daily wrapper */7.

There is not 3rd, it's intro and intermediate iirc.

the festival vxp seems really small, especially that 50vxp. That should have another zero on the end of it, and be less often.

1000 + 2000 (if it is indeed that amount) + 1050 = 4050. Two ranks of virtue for grinding the heck out of a whole festival, really isn't worth the work.

Well, now we know. The intermediate wrapper does not increase the amount, so also gives 1000 VXP, bringing the total for doing all 21 days of the festival (minus the Thrang instance) to maybe about 2 deeds worth of VXP.

Basically, festivals should probably not even be mentioned as an additional source. It is nice to have it there for those who do it, and I understand SSG would not want to make festivals feel mandatory, but still.

(Also, side note on the virtues. When I went to check my virtue panel, the "earning" flag was GONE. I don't think there is any way once one is set to remove it, is there? Just move it to another virtue? If so, how did it reset? I had VXP going to the wrong one for a few days.)

[scorrp10]

Earning flag is a toggle, you can click it off. In which case, xp goes to lowest slotted, or, if those are capped, lowest unslotted.

[bobbylobs]

Well, now we know. The intermediate wrapper does not increase the amount, so also gives 1000 VXP, bringing the total for doing all 21 days of the festival (minus the Thrang instance) to maybe about 2 deeds worth of VXP.

Basically, festivals should probably not even be mentioned as an additional source. It is nice to have it there for those who do it, and I understand SSG would not want to make festivals feel mandatory, but still.

(Also, side note on the virtues. When I went to check my virtue panel, the "earning" flag was GONE. I don't think there is any way once one is set to remove it, is there? Just move it to another virtue? If so, how did it reset? I had VXP going to the wrong one for a few days.)

I think it cancels if you max out the virtue that was set to earning, it doesn't automatically highlight another virtue as "earning" we have to manually set that, if we don't it just goes into default mode, which is non-maxed slotted left - right, then lowest level virtue.

[Thornglen]

I think it cancels if you max out the virtue that was set to earning, it doesn't automatically highlight another virtue as "earning" we have to manually set that, if we don't it just goes into default mode, which is non-maxed slotted left - right, then lowest level virtue.

I have had virues max out on a low level while I was testing, and it stayed marked "earning" even when the VXP overflowed elsewhere. Plus, the one I had picked here was not maxed. It was at 0 rank to start and my intent was to let it catch up a bit before slotting it. I was just shocked to see nothing marked anymore.

[Ballie]

So can we make a couple of assumptions now we've done the intro wrapper? Intermediate offers another 1,000 VXP so given a linear progression we'd assume the last would be another 1,000.


Total vxp for the 21 days 5,100 VXP. Second assumption that the summer festival is like any other festival for the VXP supply.



The increases in cost above the initial ranks are what is missing from the game for a new player. 86,000 - 60,000 = 26,000 VXP (It's a little bit worse because there wasn't quite this 600 sources pre U24)


For all virtues 21 X 26,000 = 546,000 VXP being the total shortfall to max all virtues that festivals and endgame has to be able to cover, in time.


So how much time? How about a LS new toon not at he cutting edge - say 2 years to reach level 120 when the hope will be end-game and it's weekly sources will be approaching.



Lets give then 5 festivals each year all giving the same or similar amounts of VXP. 5 X 2 X 5100 = 51,000 VXP earning from festivals. The final festival they are taken on as charity case for the raid/instance de jour and earn another 1000 VXP.


546,000 - 52,000 = 495,000 still left to find.


Vales will add a number of extra sources: 30,000 VXP in total. Leaving 465,000 for "end-game weeklies" currently earning 6,000 a week. 465,000 / 6,000 = 77.5 weeklies.

By then the goal post will have moved onto a new expansion and a level cap and virtue cap rise and it's VXP sources has to be aimed at veterans rather than a newcomer. Will the vales weeklies actually be available by then and it's only after the 130 cap and completion of the expansion rep and quest-lines that opens up the weeklies again.

Is a year and a half of virtue grinding, having had to be an utter completionist during specific parts of the levelling process, what the newcomer want's to face if they are to achieve what veterans have been gifted.


Maybe when you arrive at the end-game you perhaps want to be in a position to fully take part in actual end-game cutting edge so how many festivals will it take you to arrive and match up to others at least as far as virtues are concerned. You can buy your way around everything else but sense.

So how many festivals without Valar items?

495,000 / 5100 = 97 festivals. Is 19 years of festival grinding a bit much to delay your approach to end-game? Some might feel there's a festival on all year around but they would need to be on for 290 days to make up the shortage.



The BoV route gains you VXP pills to the tune of 650,000 VXP. No Grind, just a little planning and execution needed to make best use of it.

Mordor purchase get a main sorted out. Alts these days are for earning coin for main in the current climate. Job done.

[FolklegendRedux]

Ballie has been doing great work with actual numbers here, and Moln and Frace (among others) have had great input. I rolled a new toon the day the new system came out and realized many of these problems within an hour of getting into the regular landscape. Playing on a legendary server, my capped 60 toon with all possible virtue deeds done converted to every deed well over the cap of 30. As I'm approaching that with my new toon, I am going to be nowhere near that having done the exact same deeds. Different rewards for the same effort solely depending on when I did it is a poor design for new players/toons. As far as managing virtues, you absolutely cannot control where the overflow goes at all times. Under 23, only the slots you have open and slotted can be prioritized which means it's actually harder at lower levels to control it. It gets easier once you have all slots open and slotted. Then, at least, with the first slot earning, it will apply VXP where possible left to right to the slotted virtues. If I have 4 capped virtues and the fifth one is near cap, a scenario where I complete the final slayer deed in a zone which also completes the zone meta deed will see me cap the 5th virtue on the needed kill, but instantly will apply the slayer meta deed as overflow somewhere I don't choose and will also apply the zone meta deed overflow somewhere I don't choose. It is simply impossible to have the VXP always go where I want it. I warned my kin about this immediately, as well as other concerns raised in this thread. I'm glad to see others understand the problem and how it particularly penalizes new players. I'm surprised how few people in World chat seem to grasp how the system works and its inherent flaws plus poor implementation. For example, nothing in the game explains the cap floats and is always half your current level. How hard would it have been to state that on the Help panel?

[mkcraft27]

By then the goal post will have moved onto a new expansion and a level cap and virtue cap rise and it's VXP sources has to be aimed at veterans rather than a newcomer.

The virtue cap may or may not increase when the level cap increases. The current hard cap of 60 is reached at level 115. Meaning the mechanism already exists for a level cap increase to not guarantee a virtue cap increase.

[Ballie]

The virtue cap may or may not increase when the level cap increases. The current hard cap of 60 is reached at level 115. Meaning the mechanism already exists for a level cap increase to not guarantee a virtue cap increase.

Agreed, they would have to update this. But as tech gets assigned to the failures bin will it just stagnate at 60? You could hope this five levels below cap is coded in as such and not hard coded at 115, the consequences of actions has yet to be demonstrated with the revamp though. Even Cord mentioned ranks up to 65 on the stream, plausible deniability?

[scorrp10]

For all virtues 21 X 26,000 = 546,000 VXP being the total shortfall to max all virtues that festivals and endgame has to be able to cover, in time.

Once again, look at the overall picture. That 546k shortfall translates to about 7 virtues left at 0. Grinding out that shortfall will get a player about 3.3k extra morale worth of passives.
Now MANAGING your virtues in a way that those 7 remain at 0, is going to be a royal pain, at least at lower/mid levels.