Virtue XP: Leveling toons, and new players especially, have my sympathy

[groucho42]

It would have been easy for SSG to leave virtues alone. It would have been almost as easy to have a point pool just like the trait tree has a point pool. However, those things would have been nice for the players. Not a policy that seems to interest SSG.

Instead, running through low level areas with a young toon, players have to constantly remember to change the "earning" virtue to keep rotating it through things. I guess making us use time to do that take away from them having to figure out interesting content to take up our time.

Sadly, they probably wonder why there are so few casual players left.

[Thurallor]

I think the "designated earning virtue" is just a dumb idea.

All VXP should be split equally among all active virtues. Clearly those are the most important ones to the player, so why force the player to specify just one, and constantly revisit it when the cap is reached?

Allowing a player to max out one virtue at a time also makes the game harder to balance, because of the exponential nature of stat increases vs. player level.

If all active virtues are capped, then VXP should be split among the inactive virtues.

[Mukor]

You aren't forced, you can just select your priority.
If you don't care your five geared get leveled. After that the others.
Personally I think level one to max and then the others is better as all simultaneously.
Level ranking is:
1. Selected
2. Geared smallest level
3.geared alphabetical if some has the same level
4. Smallest passive
5. Passive alphabetical.

You don't need to worry that you loose vxp except last reaches cap

[scorrp10]

It would have been easy for SSG to leave virtues alone. It would have been almost as easy to have a point pool just like the trait tree has a point pool. However, those things would have been nice for the players. Not a policy that seems to interest SSG.

Instead, running through low level areas with a young toon, players have to constantly remember to change the "earning" virtue to keep rotating it through things. I guess making us use time to do that take away from them having to figure out interesting content to take up our time.

Sadly, they probably wonder why there are so few casual players left.

The interface could be better, but it is not as bad as you paint it. At lvl 7, fresh out of intro area, they can slot one virtue and mark another as earning. Early on, levels will be racked up a lot faster than deeds. By level 11, 3 virtues slotted, one other set to earning. Thats about 20k vxp worth. People will learn early on that being a completionist will waste vxp and mostly avoid slayers. And whatever quest or explorer deeds they do, vxp will go to the virtues they need.

Still saying virtues should work like trait points. Go to pool, distributed as desired.

[Stormtower]

The interface could be better, but it is not as bad as you paint it. At lvl 7, fresh out of intro area, they can slot one virtue and mark another as earning. Early on, levels will be racked up a lot faster than deeds. By level 11, 3 virtues slotted, one other set to earning. Thats about 20k vxp worth. People will learn early on that being a completionist will waste vxp and mostly avoid slayers. And whatever quest or explorer deeds they do, vxp will go to the virtues they need.

Still saying virtues should work like trait points. Go to pool, distributed as desired.

Completely agree that virtues should work like trait points in a shared pool.

This need to micromanage not-finishing slayer deeds in low zones, in order to avoid handicapping one's toon at cap level, is just terribad game design. SMH. As if there are not enough barriers to new player entry/engagement already.

[Beia]

Completely agree that virtues should work like trait points in a shared pool.

IMHO a pool is the better choice.

[cwswim03]

It would have been easy for SSG to leave virtues alone. It would have been almost as easy to have a point pool just like the trait tree has a point pool. However, those things would have been nice for the players. Not a policy that seems to interest SSG.

Instead, running through low level areas with a young toon, players have to constantly remember to change the "earning" virtue to keep rotating it through things. I guess making us use time to do that take away from them having to figure out interesting content to take up our time.

Sadly, they probably wonder why there are so few casual players left.

So much better than the old system. You can choose the 5 virtues that you want to level and pour all your vxp into those. Instead of having to farm 300-400 worms/wargs/whatever in random spots you can run around the shire for five minutes and get the same result. Good change SSG

[scorrp10]

It is good in a sense you can focus on virtues you need just doing the deeds you want. But management implementation is horrid. All too easy to have vxp go to a virtue one has no desire to increase, or get it wasted altogether. Many folks on LS who would deed between content rollouts found themselvs unable to do more deeds without losing vxp.

[Litreb]

So much better than the old system. You can choose the 5 virtues that you want to level and pour all your vxp into those. Instead of having to farm 300-400 worms/wargs/whatever in random spots you can run around the shire for five minutes and get the same result. Good change SSG

? Its still required to do deeds so whats your point?

[cwswim03]

It is good in a sense you can focus on virtues you need just doing the deeds you want. But management implementation is horrid. All too easy to have vxp go to a virtue one has no desire to increase, or get it wasted altogether. Many folks on LS who would deed between content rollouts found themselvs unable to do more deeds without losing vxp.

LS were poorly rolled out and had negative ripple effects everywhere? Who woulda thought?

? Its still required to do deeds so whats your point?

Having to do content for rewards is kinda the point of MMOs.

[naarcx]

It would have been easy for SSG to leave virtues alone. It would have been almost as easy to have a point pool just like the trait tree has a point pool. However, those things would have been nice for the players. Not a policy that seems to interest SSG.

Instead, running through low level areas with a young toon, players have to constantly remember to change the "earning" virtue to keep rotating it through things. I guess making us use time to do that take away from them having to figure out interesting content to take up our time.

Sadly, they probably wonder why there are so few casual players left.

For what it's worth, I'm a new player and I don't think it's bad at all once you realize it's a thing and you equip the ones you want... It prioritizes the 5 you have equipped--in order--and if you're just regular leveling and not worrying about 100% all the deeds in a zone before moving onto the next (aka, maximizing your xp and stuff) you never even get close to having your 5 used ones maxed. For a reference point, my champion is level 43 and has Virtuous and Zeal maxed at 21... But then his next 3 are levels 6-4-2, respectively. And once he hits level 44, Virtuous will automatically become the priority choice again.

If anything, I'd say it's actually more user friendly that what I've read to old system to be... I.E. write down the virtuous you want and see what gives them their levels and then go specifically farm that stuff.

Just my two cents, but I'm just a nub to this game (but not games like it.)

[KrashTheWalls]

So far, I actually like the new virtue system. When I am leveling, I usually get enough exp from doing quests and getting exp for exploration and rep deeds to bring my 5 slotted virtues to close to max. You gain levels at a fast enough rate that you never cap out a virtue, at least in the lvl 30 - 60 range (What the toon that I am leveling has gone through under the new virtue system). Being able to choose where my exp goes is much nicer than having to do specific deeds in certain areas to get exp, instead I can just do the relatively easy deeds in all the areas I level through and get plenty of exp to put into my main virtues. Selecting a new virtue to isn't even that big of a deal due to the priority list of where exp goes once the selected virtue gets maxed out. If I do want to switch what virtue I earn, it usually only takes a few seconds once every session or 2.

I do think that having a pool of exp like the current trait system would be nicer, but not by much. The only real advantage that it has over the current system is once your main virtues are capped, but while leveling that rarely happens unless you grind them out.

[Hostyle]

It's just outdated. Would be best to just have an option for unused Virtue xp to pool. Once the player feels like it; it could be allocated to the desired Virtue.

[Constrictions]

People will learn early on that being a completionist will waste vxp and mostly avoid slayers.

The fact that completing content on level causes people to lose out on xp for stats that are essential to your character for its entire lifespan is absolutely insane.

At least with the last system, you would still gain the reward. You'd just have to level up more to take advantage of it. There seems to be no reason why it operates as it does right now, unless the chance of players wasting vxp is an intentional way of increasing demand for store items.

[onor]

What the necro is going on here?

The fact that people were comfortable with an obvious massive grind and monetization scheme back then(when I was absent and enjoying real life), reminds me of the hopeless LI situation we have now.

[Rylnconn]

It would have been easy for SSG to leave virtues alone. It would have been almost as easy to have a point pool just like the trait tree has a point pool. However, those things would have been nice for the players. Not a policy that seems to interest SSG.

Instead, running through low level areas with a young toon, players have to constantly remember to change the "earning" virtue to keep rotating it through things. I guess making us use time to do that take away from them having to figure out interesting content to take up our time.

Sadly, they probably wonder why there are so few casual players left.

As a casual player the current system works just fine , you pick your 5 and tend to them , it takes a bit of responsible playing and checking in on them from time to time . But it works just fine and its far better than the old way . i'm not going to question why mmos do this , but every rpg since dragon warrior has had the exp grind . So its something you deal with , and really it probably will never change in our life times . And making the virtue grind less grindy I think is a bad idea . I believe some areas need a tweak for sure in the actual numbers being spawned for the deeds / virtue build .

[Andarel]

As a casual player the current system works just fine , you pick your 5 and tend to them , it takes a bit of responsible playing and checking in on them from time to time . But it works just fine and its far better than the old way . i'm not going to question why mmos do this , but every rpg since dragon warrior has had the exp grind . So its something you deal with , and really it probably will never change in our life times . And making the virtue grind less grindy I think is a bad idea . I believe some areas need a tweak for sure in the actual numbers being spawned for the deeds / virtue build .

Agreed. It's easy enough to manage.

[OghranNasty]

As a casual player the current system works just fine , you pick your 5 and tend to them , it takes a bit of responsible playing and checking in on them from time to time . But it works just fine and its far better than the old way . i'm not going to question why mmos do this , but every rpg since dragon warrior has had the exp grind . So its something you deal with , and really it probably will never change in our life times . And making the virtue grind less grindy I think is a bad idea . I believe some areas need a tweak for sure in the actual numbers being spawned for the deeds / virtue build .

I am levelling a brawler currently and I don't see the problem.

The only thing you need to do is put some virtue xp into the ones you want to slot so you can slot them. Once that is done, select the first slotted virtue as the earning one and ignore the virtue cap warnings. That way your slotted virtues level up nicely and any excess spills over to the unused virtues, filling up one before moving on to another, just the way you'd like it.

[Pavlin]

Work as intended...
Store ====> this way.
Get your vXP now.
Only 7k lp.

[OghranNasty]

Work as intended...
Store ====> this way.
Get your vXP now.
Only 7k lp.

Hogwash.
There are plenty free sources of vxp.

[Uroc]

Hogwash.
There are plenty free sources of vxp.

Its not hogwash. That system is designed to be boring grind so you would want to use store more. Because if they wanted to help us with it we would have points for we can choose and put anywhere we want like skill points. Those are basic design practices and SSG are very experienced designers so they really know what they doing in this case.

Much more fair would be for you to say "I like grind and doing repeatable stuff so I am not having problems.".

[wispsong]

I am levelling a brawler currently and I don't see the problem.

The only thing you need to do is put some virtue xp into the ones you want to slot so you can slot them. Once that is done, select the first slotted virtue as the earning one and ignore the virtue cap warnings. That way your slotted virtues level up nicely and any excess spills over to the unused virtues, filling up one before moving on to another, just the way you'd like it.

This works very well while levelling because virtues are capped at player level/2. Wait until you get to 130. You will wish that you had saved the slayer deeds.

[OghranNasty]

Its not hogwash. That system is designed to be boring grind so you would want to use store more. Because if they wanted to help us with it we would have points for we can choose and put anywhere we want like skill points. Those are basic design practices and SSG are very experienced designers so they really know what they doing in this case.

Much more fair would be for you to say "I like grind and doing repeatable stuff so I am not having problems.".

Only if you insist on maxing the unslotted virtues, for a very modest raise in stats. That is self-inflicted pain.

And no, I do not like grind or repeatable stuff and I don't do it anymore. Slayer deeds only if I'm already close.

[Uroc]

Only if you insist on maxing the unslotted virtues, for a very modest raise in stats. That is self-inflicted pain.

And no, I do not like grind or repeatable stuff and I don't do it anymore. Slayer deeds only if I'm already close.

Alright, sorry then I made wrong statement about you.

[Froyo_K_Baggins]

It would have been easy for SSG to leave virtues alone. It would have been almost as easy to have a point pool just like the trait tree has a point pool. However, those things would have been nice for the players. Not a policy that seems to interest SSG.

Instead, running through low level areas with a young toon, players have to constantly remember to change the "earning" virtue to keep rotating it through things. I guess making us use time to do that take away from them having to figure out interesting content to take up our time.

Sadly, they probably wonder why there are so few casual players left.

When they created this mess, they already had a clear example of what worked: trait trees. You get points in a pool and then allocate them. Rather than stick with something that works, such as that, skirmishes, or plenty of other things, they always find a way to increase the grind and decrease player enjoyment.